Ronster

Mp3 edit of flight of the Snowspeeders straming link

http://www.mediafire.com/listen/oldd2q440jl793c/snowspeeders+take+fligh+timing+rough.wav

Ok I have roughly worked out where the dialogue sits within the sequence of flight of the Snowspeeders. I think I am pretty much right. The problem I have now is how do I actually get this to go with the footage? I had to simply chop the audio for the dialogue including the score that is present in the origibal (hyperspace).

Probably beyond my skill but the issue here is there is  a missing shot in the middle or perhaps 2 but It really needs to be accompanied by footage so as It can be worked out where the missing shots need to go. It's a headache and It can be worked out but it is not easy, There is also the issue of can zevs lines be isolated from a mix say a 5:1 mix.

If you care enough to listen to this then you will realize that hyperspace was a poor substitute for what Williams actually did and how he really was at the peak of his masterful scoring. the score fits extremely well around the dialogue and complements everything that is happening.

So I have done the groundwork on where his lines sit. now I need help in this hole I am in. There is definitely a seperation gap in the middle and this springs to mind.

Questions and help please...

1.Is it possible to isolate Zev.s lines from say a mix say 5:1 mix for empire strikes back SE or any version out there?

2. has anyone the skill and a decent video editing suite that can easily time the footage to the audio.? even with a still image on the missing scenes

I will leave it there and I hope someone can help me out on this because it is really tricky.

The footage was only shifted in the timeline and was not altered so if the footage lines up with the audio there is only scenes or shots of snowspeeders cut nothing more that is important as it means it is possible to restore music and sequence this in terms of footage and exterior special effects shots but unless zevs lines get impersonated or can be isolated it is not.

The music directly preceeding flight of the snow speeders is for the probe droid emerging from hybernation. which relates to this image.

The script clearly states dawn, and this concept is in the dawn so that is concept art for that scene that got cut that comes directly before the flight of the snow speeders. Flight of the snowspeeders also could be argued was not dawn like enough.

So If a scene has concept art and full color one at high detail that means that this scene carried quite a bit of weight and importance. And the only thing I can put on this is that this scene overlapped with the speeders searching for Han and Luke and inferred that the speeders were the probe droids tip off to the location of Echo Base. I am guessing but I think that is a pretty informed guess based on the planned position and the music that is not part of the snow speeder search.

Back at my PC Stumbled across a cue that I found through listening to the radio drama.

It is a transition cue for when Luke is in the med center. The interesting thing is because the way the footage is laid out it plays over the bacta tank scene. The Bacta tank was in the fourth draft so I am going to draw a conclusion of this is a restored cue for the bacta tank sequence. Missing the planned sudden flash of light that is described in the script as luke writhes about as the robot puts his arm on the side of the tank, please download the clip below to hear it.

http://vimeo.com/101692029

I have not spent long on this as the background track would need rebuilding the score that was used possibly removing with sound effects but it is possible to restore this cue partially I think the music that comes directly before it was meant for luke writhing about in the water as described in the script in footage we have yet to see or cancelled due to the accident Hamil Had in the Bacta Tank.... Perhaps they toned this scene down after that? That is pure conjecture but it seems to fit the description and the footage.

Anyway I think It was meant for this moment, It has the rebel base feel to the sound which Williams scored. The other thing to note is the horrible transition cut between music score that needs a smother transition between hyperspace and the snow speeders take flight. Really sloppy... Hyperspace needs fading out sooner and perhaps the flight of the snow speders a bit sooner (Timpani hit) of which I have not touched but It needs fixing as it was a poor audio edit and you will clearly hear the awkward cut if you listen closely as zev says "Echo Base". to properly sort out this messy transition would require cutting away to an exterior shot of the snow speeder to allow more time to sort it in an un-messy way unless an unscored audio track could be obtained that is.. Or even perhaps hyperspace simply needs to overlap with the snow speeders take flight to smooth it out.

The full score can be heard here which includes the omitted parts of the snowspeeders take flight & Bacta tank cues at the end. If it's not the Bacta tank then these cues could possibly be for the Wampa attack on echo base but because the radio drama uses this cue where it does It's a more tell tale sign of that it is the Bacta tank sequence rather than anything else.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUO4fC9zfJI

The music used in the Bacta tank is from "Luke's Nocturnal Visitor." upon where he meets yoda on dagobah.

I really would like to restore snow speeders take flight but there is a couple of barriers. Isolated voice track and extra shots to pad the sequence out, That is a tough call but it would also require a slight altered timimng as Zev would say his lines at a totally different time but they kept the cues in tact for the ending. I will have a go at it but it won't be pretty so I will fore warn as I have no way of isolating the voice track.

I am not so sure about them building the shield generator but I would like to see them used for another function. Such as clearing sections of wood yeah although the trees on Endor are a bit too big!!!

I came across this the other day. now I am not so sure about all of it. But that music that kicks in while the scout walkers are in the woods needs to be restored in my opinion. It sounds excellent. Not sure what track it is from but I want to hear that sound for when they are dominating and when they are kicking up dirt in the forest for a section.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_K8HL0psC8

yoda1138 said:

adywan said:

(click on image for larger view)

 

Nice work Adywan, Before i saw this image i concocted my own experiment, a rough idea by blending 3 creatures... Rooster, Vulture and another Lizards ete re-coloured.

I can't remember if the original clip the lizard turns its head which would be tricky to composite these elements, possible though, maybe have to skew the elemennts to match the turn of the head? Anyway, just an idea, to make it more alien.

.....

 I have to say I like what Ady did and I also like what you did too yoda1138 but the red coloration is possibly too much for the environment and it makes the creature a bit of a failed evolution for that striking coloration in such a murky bogged down and dull planet. But if the coloration was a dark brown around the eyes it would make more sense.

Anyway you need to think about a living creature and that it would need to hide to survive and blend with it's surroundings more when composing something but it's not for fault in an artistic sense and I do like it.

One of the reasons I like star wars so much is the creatures and make up fx and inhabitants of the worlds so basically the more unearthly you can make the snakes and lizards hired in from the reptile farm and more alien the better, It's just as important as space battles and It's the small portion of the star wars experience being a small part monster movies / creature feature

I think you are right Amras.

Had a small idea last week about when luke and R2 first set up camp on dagobah before meeting Yoda. There is a snake slithering over a mound. Now I know Ady wants to make more alien type of life on dagobah so It occured to me how about making the snake into a giant earth worm instead. Not sure how easy that would be but I think it would be more creepy crawly than a large snake.

Also been reading the 4th draft script. Some nice ideas in there that never came to pass like rebels being trampled underfoot by AT-AT's hibernating probe droids and the falcon being attacked under cloud city whilst trying to get luke in the hatch to name a few. One can dream about some of those omitted ideas that they were planning I can't help but feel there is a lot more deleted scenes that are in the archives at lucusfilm that have yet to be released... Here is hoping that disney releases this stuff that we have not yet seen.

Without trying to sound bad I really liked the PDF file comparison file that anotatef changes and showed still images brcause it encouraged rewatching the film to take note of the changes descibed. But i honestley don't care for anything kver complicated and time consuming we have to appreciate how much goes into doinv this project.

So I made a small donation not because i wanted the new clip relessed but because i want to support the project but i really think with things like facebook likes 67.000 of them emphasises a flippancy of a sort. anyway don't forget that people support the project and really look forward to it and want to give as much support as they can but don't be disallusioned by facebook there is a very real amount of suppkrt but a number like that does not mean you really have that much support but there are a lot of people that should give support when a request is made because some cost obviously needs covering. Ady does not ask unless it is nedded I don't think he is that sort of person.

But anyway I think that is facebook for you.

I have bumped this but there are 2 things I wanted to raise from studying the music and comparing the footage.

1. If the fanfare from "the imperial probe" was to introduce echo base. Then that would mean at one time the footage was laid out that way. The probe droid arose from the crater and then we cut to Han riding the taun taun into the launch bay. So this would have happened after Luke got dragged off by the Wampa. So this means that this theme in the restored music video got scrapped and re-written out but they still used a score from arrival on dagobah. Probably because they shifted the probe droid to an earlier point in the footage.

2. Hoth Search unused score... Now I am not 100% about this but I said earlier that the way John Williams scored these scenes was pretty awful. I am now going to retract that statement and say that the music that is unused was scored to luke being chased by the Wampa through the snow. It sounds bad with the footage because it was never intended to go with this footage in the first place. Or it's the Probe Droid Vs the Wampa scene which is story boarded.

That is quite important in so much as the cues that have been demonstrated in the restored music video are totally wrong because they never went with this footage originally. only a small section matches the film properly. That is the only explaination I can give but if it is just bad scoring then well no wonder it got cut out.

The rest of the videos seem to be spot on accurate apart from these 2. I don't think any score was written for Han on Taun Taun hence why it remains without music. But if the themes in that piece of music was meant to be a menacing snow creature chasing luke.. Then that also gives me another idea....

I have seen that puppet walking behind JJ and when I see a statement like this that it will be a balanced approach although I would hope there is an emphasis on practical effects, I have seen these hyped up campaigns before to grab peoples interest. I have been lied to, duped and sold on too many false promises to even bother getting hyped up about this sort of stuff until a movie is released and listen to what people say about it.

I won't even bother keeping my fingers crossed, if JJ has the tenacity to push for a good balance of practical and digital then so be it. I will wait for the result before deciding to buy into some promotional interest grabber until dinner is served.

I won't get fooled again by this promo rubbish.. That puppet thing will probably be in the movie for like 10 seconds and be a background character that has no lines. Sorry to come across as like this but this is what Hollywood made me.

It looks fine, I'm just wondering If It could look better with the model. But I am not complaining. The most important thing is the next clip and the rules to getting it released.

Yeah that site down issue has happened to me loads of times.. It is a frustrating issue.

Looking at the great new model pictures and without trying to assume anything what so ever but my hunch is that the CGI falcon in the Asteroid canyon shot's will be replaced with the model that is being built. And if that is the case hat's off on that one. But like I said I don't want to sound like I am putting words in anybodies mouth but that was the first thought that sprang to mind and Ady dropped the hint in the comments that "I am still working on ESB" so I kind of drew some conclusions from that statement that this could possibly be the case?

If people still donate before the runners up draw coiuld that still get the clip released? If so please announce that because I really wanted to see the next clip too what ever it was planned to be. and I may make a small donation to drop it down by one less.

Very clever. That works quite well indeed.

where does it go? or where do you think it should go.

I am going to have another go at the hoth search and echo base I think.

Can you post up a link to the part you mean? Ah I think I just found it thanks for pointing this one out got any more?

question where is the music from where Han rides the taun taun into echo base?

I am going to move that transition sting to when the door shuts and see what it does..(Did not Work It actually cancels out the emphasis) But I think I would not make any further additions from the unused score the Hoth Search is that final thorn in my side on this score restoration ideas. It may need score originally intended for another part of the film to be used to kill all the dead air while Han is on the Taun Taun. The way Willams scored these scene was pretty awful It may prove tricky to find a suitable alternative. So this is the final hurdle. But I would still love to see others ideas if anyone wants to offer any up.

Echo Base V2

http://vimeo.com/101690630

Ok Fishmanlee I have restored the light fanfare.. To do this I had to rebuild the background track so I had to add background noise Taun Tauns sound effects and as an added bonus I have added Taun Taun Footstep sounds that were always missing. Not only does this re-score sound better but It's like it should always have been this way. I think I got it pretty seamless it's very hard to spot that it's an edit and I think this is possibly the best I could do. So thanks for pointing it out I am extremely happy with the way it came out and I hope you like it. I also improved upon the the proper start point for when Han shakes Reikens hand. Anyone fond of seeing how a piece of music can change a scene should check this out.

Hoth Seach V2

http://vimeo.com/101690904

Ok now I am still not entirely happy with this, I think it needs shaving back more but I will show where I am at at this time. This is about my 6th or 7th attempt and still not happy here. I used the transition sting to emphasize lukes final collapse and had to improvise with a cue from another part. Although it works it does not feel 100% right so I think it needs another attempt I knew this one would be tricky but I could use some help on a more foreboding piece of score that I can't seem to find anything that fit's perfectly. But I restored the cue after the door shuts. You will have to watch it to see what I mean.

There something I felt I needed to add as these 2 clips are now directly related in terms of music. It was an important part of the decision process. The Light fanfare which now replaces part of the vader theme as Han rides into echo base is somewhat repated in the sustained strings and harp. It was meant to conjure up the image of han riding through the door again whilst Leia is standing by the door brooding. This is an explaination of my choices. So these 2 clips are linked by theme to help try to convey this. It's the best I could do and although initially I was not happy I have started to warm to it more.

__________________________________________________

The Next things I do will be re-scores of the special edition additions that use repeated score and I may have another go at Hoth Search but this won't be for a while due to work comitments. So I hope you enjoy the clips and I welcome anyone else to post up a unused score edit or a rescore of their own. It can be a lot of fun and I have enjoyed doing this small demo project and I hope you like what you have heard and don't disagree with my decisions that I made but if you do or you don't say so!

Holy Cow that is fantastic but the music might not match up with this... If that could be restored back into the film it would indeed be a real wow moment. Perhaps the music should just get cued up later?

This film will have more CGI than any other film you have seen previously. weather it looks real or not is another matter but don't get your hopes up on seeing an all practical effects romp it just won't happen.

I had recently discovered the unused / deleted music for the Empire Strikes Back and had never known so much music was cut out of the film and although many of the cut's I have to say I agree with I could not help feel that a bit too much had been cut away and not to mention some small differences I noticed of better start and stop points for the score.

So I have put together some demo videos of what I felt should have been kept. But I also want to say that I would like to encourage others if they feel like it to chip in and do demo's of what they felt should have been kept also. So If you like I don't want to command this thread as my own project but that anyone can have a go and a say if they so wish.

Basically I viewed the unused / deleted score as often interfering but in some instances where it does not I wanted to restore these sections but also try to maintain Kershners intensity. By no means am I saying my mock ups are final decisions of what is best as peoples opinions differ. But I have had a go at trying to bring more Williams score into the films scenes without ruining Kershners intentions.

So first off check this page for the deleted score in it's entireity.

http://www.starwarz.com/tbone/the-empire-strikes-back-restored-music/

Then check the original film or the special edition.

Ok now for some edits.

Echo Base

Link Deleted

What I did. Simply started the music a bit sooner when Han shakes hands with the general. This is actually where the theme starts.

Hoth Search

Link Deleted

What I did. I included the music where Luke collapses in the snow, and I also added the transition sting for when we cut back to echo base. I am not actually to sure about this last one (I also thought about moving this cue to when the door actually slams shut to give that more emphasis) but I really feel the music when Luke collapses a dead cert as should not have been cut. I also think that I should have cut it a bit sooner losing the timpani hit. a second attempt on this I think is needed.

Probe Droid

http://vimeo.com/101691213

What I did. ah this is complicated much flitting back between the original and the scored version but I really like the way it came out. Would never dream of replacing the concert imperial march though. That has to stay in my opinion.

Meet Yoda

http://vimeo.com/101691388

What I did. Simple and fun actually a one note rescore in there but repeated the playful theme and started the last cue a couple of seconds earlier this is where the theme actually starts. I think it's simple and nice.

Mynocks!

http://vimeo.com/101691604

I really like the imperial march rather than the silence perhaps kershner felt this was over used but it is short and sweet and I think if the deleted scenes were present then it would definitely not feel over used but this is my concern on this one as much as I like it. Included mysterious sting for Leias first glimpse of a Mynock. And changed Han's Blaster to the correct sound just because I felt like it. but I also went this far in the footage so as to associate that sound with the Mynocks that is heard when Leia first makes a spot.

Luke Training

http://vimeo.com/101691799

Started the score a bit earlier on "no, no there is no why.." Simply because I feel that it transitions into dark side cave a lot better. all other additions I kept scrapped.

The Duel Part 1

http://vimeo.com/101691905

I kept the score going until Vader delivers his line and I had the idea a while back was unsure if it would work but yes It works ever so well and I think it's just perfect this way. you can feel the drop off after Vader delivers the line and really creates a lot more tension.

Han to the Rescue and North Ridge I decided any unused / deleted music was best kept that way in these 2 instances

I plan to do a few more, but I would like to discuss the deleted score and I would also like to see other peoples edits of what they think also. As it's open to interpretation. If you think that the soundtrack is perfect as is I am cool with that but this is a discussion about trying to figure out the best way to restore more Williams music and disputing should so much have been cut? And has it even been cut short in some theme instances which I think I have spotted 2 of those so far.


So if you just want to share an idea or share an audio score edit please do so as I think many people are interested in John Williams original unused score and what can be taken from it to perhaps further improve the film. But please no alternative cues like the snow speeders take flight or the alternative intro cues as these are unuseable and impossible in any edit unless you use that music in another scene for instance. But I wanted to focus more on restoration than anything radical with this.

ah I see so it all depends on what s.wade picks... This could be quite an easy choice or a tough one.

yeah well done but what is the first and second prizes?

Or is it something i mossef? I am not jelous enough yet....:)

well the workprint review mentioned restored score from this year but that does not mean that will be any because it is a wip. But it sureley has been considered but perhaps a decision was made to not put any back... And i can understand that as much of the deleted score is a bit overdone or over the top. It needs quite a bit of taming and chopping out chunks so as to compliment and not interfere.

@Darth Lucus "you've done a man's job sir"

I am not disputing any decisions about music. But deleted score is totally different to adding prequel music. I can't see any downfalls if the right choices are made and since i heard the deleted score when i get some spare time i am going to start a thread about it and do some demo's because kershner although mostly right went a bit too far with the audio cuts to score. But he did a great job on the most part but theres "moments" that should not have been lost.

And some of those "moments" you might struggle to tell the difference

brash_stryker said:

fgqb#19nyj said:

There won't be any changes in music, correct? In other words, no need for a Purist Edition, too?

 Correct.

 Will there be any additional music that was cut?

Since hearing the deleted score from the soundtrack there are some real gems in there and it's not so much extra music it's more about scoring from the logical point and in some cases creating a new start and stop point.

Thing is you can go for an intense film and have silence but it can still be just as intense or more so with music or stings.

Luke entering the carbon freeze chamber is possibly the best example. In the original it is silent with sound effects and then vader speaks. The deleted score creates a great atmosphere but ultimateley ruins what vader says with a big piano hit. But if you took the best of both it would be scored up until vader speaks and his voice cut's the air and the soundtrack away. That would give luke to the pit of our stomachs and feel as he would standing there. Get me?

I think Kershner cut away about 10 to 20% too much score it's not much but some of it matters whilst most of it does not.

Posessed Leland plot?

]

This was a great part of the second series IMO

First season was totally sparkling

I thought about what you said before you posted and perhaps the shield was not activated.

But I am in the same camp that I think the probe travelled a long way before reaching the planet.

Here is the excerpt from the script weather you count it as canon or not

EXT. GALAXY - PLANET HOTH

A Star Destroyer moves through space, releasing Imperial probe robots
from its underside.

One of these probes zooms toward the planet Hoth and lands on its ice-
covered surface. An explosion marks the point of
impact.

The 4th draft by Kasdan which is the "shooting script" does not have this excerpt it starts with Luke on Snow lizard or Taun Taun.

The fith draft is unavailable but was an edit of the fourth draft from page 136 on wards which finalized just before shooting started. there eere a 3 further subsequent revisions to the 5th draft whilst during shooting. seeing as the opening with the star destroyer is all special effects based. I also going to say this sort of thing has Mr Lucus stamp all over it rather than Kasdan

I think they bodged up on the script in this part as they changed it probably whilst production had started but never bothered to join the dots with the leap back in time.

Or they had no other way of doing it.

It seems that way to me unless Somone can shed more light on it.

I always felt the star destroyer at the beginning was by itself as a lone searcher and later the fleet grouped up to deploy but I never thought it was very close. Perhaps a system of planets can be huge and we are right to perceive it is nowhere near the 6th planet of hoth system

The script says the star destroyer is in the hoth system.....

I always thought it was far away... Hope that clears it up for you. What do you think?