Nien Nunb

JayArgonaut said:

Back to the Future II: not necessarily a digital alteration but definitely a visual one.

The original: featuring “Coming Summer 1990”, as seen at the end of the theatrical and home video versions, including the Blu-ray:

Removed from the version shown in recent years by ITV (UK) and the “BTTF Part III” logo also appears to have been altered from the original.

This is an alteration, but I don’t think this is a recent change. It was actually more recently that the “Coming Summer 1990” was restored after years of it not having been included. I first became aware of it on the 25th Anniversary Blu-ray set and corresponding DVD set. It was not present on the 2002 DVDs or any previous VHS release I have ever seen. I believe it appeared in theaters this way and then was removed for it’s initial video release which is how it remained until 2011.

I fixed the confusingly worded thread title.

Haarspalter said:

A few weeks ago some guy commented on my “Gary Kurtz on the Star Wars Special Edition” youtube upload, saying:

“I completely disagree with this man’s stance.”

I asked him why and he answered:

“I love the special editions.”

I stayed polite and tried to get a more detailed argument out of him by remarking:

“That is completely fine if you love them. Which version of the Special Edition do you like the most? To this day there are four versions of Special Editions: 1997 - The first Special Edition, 2004 - The DVD Special Edition (Haydens Ghost added to ROTJ, Ian McDiarmid added to ESB), 2012 - The Blu ray Special Edition (Darth Vaders ‘NOOO’ added to ROTJ), 2019 - The Disney + Special Edition (Greedos ‘Maclunkey’ added to ANH).”

His answer:

“2019. Those are the final definitive versions.”

Since he stayed by his one-sentence-replys, i had no desire to deepen the discussion any further.

This is what they all say though, as if it somehow invalidates everyone else’s thoughts and opinions. The thing is even if I did find the Special Editions to be superior, I would still want the original versions to be preserved and readily available in equal quality to the SE. There actually are several films in which I do find an alternate cut to be superior to the theatrical, but I wouldn’t want the theatrical cut to not be available just because I personally preferred a different version. It is this which I do not understand. People can like whichever version they want, but why does that mean that no other version should be available?

I can’t even remember the last time I watched any of the other versions of Blade Runner besides the Final Cut, but I am glad they were made available and I wouldn’t not want to own them. In the case of Close Encounters of the Third Kind, I actually watch the Theatrical cut most often as that is the one I prefer. What is being done with the Star Wars films is to me a travesty, and should have never been allowed to happen to any film, let alone one coming from a man who once spoke in front of congress to bring awareness and advocated for the prevention of this exact scenario from happening.

Too bad there were no props being sold that only appeared in the original cuts, lol. I’d love to see them sell something like the Sy Snootles puppet and put in a blurb of “Includes DVD copy of the film”.

It has been my observation that most pro SE people who support the suppression or the original cuts are ignorant about film and video tech in general. A lot of people don’t seem to understand what “HD” or “4K” even really mean and act as if they are some sort of application that you apply to old films to make them look better.

I literally got into an argument with someone in the comments for an upload of a Star Trek Generations deleted scene on YouTube that was from a barely watchable multi generational VHS copy of a workprint, which was then uploaded to YouTube in sub SD quality. This person seemed to think that movies come out of the camera in this kind of dog shit lo-rez VHS quality and that they use some kind of magic “upscaler” to make films look the way they do when they are released.

I’ve had to restrain myself in the comments sections lately on Facebook and whatever other articles I read about the SEs vs the original cuts because some people just seem hell bent on opposing causes like restoring the OT and allowing both versions to coexist without any real merit other than to make it look like we are overreacting. I’ve learned that arguing with these kinds of people gets you nowhere and just leads to endless back and forth bickering over the internet.

I have always had an appreciation for classic cinema since I was a child, and have always advocated for the closest approximation of any film’s original release version to be available on the market, so I understand that not everyone has that same appreciation but at the same time I cannot see how anyone can argue against it other than just to kiss George’s ass. If something doesn’t phase me or I am indifferent to it, I wouldn’t go out of my way to push my views on the matter down someone else’s throat, which is why it baffles me that people go out of their way to hackle people like us online for advocating and pushing for an official release of the unaltered original trilogy.

It is completely ridiculous at this point in time that practically any other film which has ever received this kind of a large scale revisionist treatment is allowed to co-exist with multiple other versions being available on the market in the same quality at the same time, but somehow no matter what Star Wars is always the exception to that rule, and people constantly go out of their way online to try and tell us how it is somehow acceptable just because it is their personal belief that the SEs are better.

Anchorhead said:

Density said:

George didn’t gaslight us like that.

Lucas has been gaslighting the fan base for 40 years. Nine films, six films, twelve films, never about Vader, always about Vader, Vader not the father, Vader always the father, Han shot in self defense, Leia was always the sister, “what I’d always planned”, “I just didn’t have the technology in 1980/1977/1983”, The Original Vision, commissioned two authors to each write a second film, the 1977 negatives are gone forever, films should never be altered, the director can alter, etc, etc, etc.

He built the franchise off of gaslighting the fan base and his constant lying created the fracturing that led to things like this very community.

Exactly.

George is the undisputed King of gaslighting. He genuinely hoped (wishes?) that people would have bought into all of his bullsh*t and believe the constant contradictory statements he makes. I believe he hoped way back in 1995 with the final VHS and Laserdisc release of the original cuts that he would be able to get away with nonchalantly suppressing the original versions of the trilogy forever and that people wouldn’t really care too much, but when that plan backfired along with the mixed critical reception of the prequels, he became deeply resentful and started screwing around with the films even more just as an exercise of power. He wanted to beat people over the head with “These are MY films, I will do whatever the hell I want with them!”. So many of the nonsensical changes made since 1997 suggest this. Fans and the media had backed him into a corner over the years with questions regarding the unaltered OT, which is the only reason he ever publicly spoke about there being any other versions besides the SE after '97.

Disney have had a lot of issues of their own in regards to their handling of this franchise, but to me nothing they have done warrants George being placed on any higher of a pedestal than them. They have both done a disservice to fans in many different ways.

Density said:
Disney is trying to pretend like the OUT doesn’t even exist. George didn’t gaslight us like that. He totally acknowledged it and was merely upfront in admitting that his new cuts were the real deal as far as he was concerned, and didn’t really care that many fans fell in love with the original cuts. But again, STILL he released the GOUT.

People try to argue this point all the time, but I personally don’t see how Disney has handled this issue any differently than George ever did.

George Lucas OFTEN tried to pretend that there was no other version of the films other than whatever his preferred version was at the time. No home video release after 1997 ever acknowledged that they contained anything other than the original films on the packaging, and if he could have gotten away with people not noticing or questioning any of the changes he made over the years, He would have probably preferred that. He only ever acknowledged the original versions when he was forced to. After 1997, He never openly or and willingly talked about any of the changes and if it weren’t for fans and interviewers constantly bringing the subject up he probably would have never acknowledged them ever again. The GOUT was not something he wanted to do, and was released primarily to stifle the bootleg market.

I definitely don’t think Disney has done the greatest job of handling the franchise for sure, but to say that they are any better or worse than George isn’t really fair. Disney/Lucasfilm are doing the exact same crap George had already been doing for years, probably somehow because of him still. They know the OUT exists, they know people want it, but whatever the reason may be they simply have no interest or intent to release it and have made that pretty clear.

It has been years since I watched the DVD, but if I recall correctly this was not really a proper extended cut in the traditional sense, it was just the theatrical cut but if you played it in the enhanced mode an icon would occasionally appear wherever one of the deleted scenes would have appeared in the film, and by clicking on it the film would stop and you would see the deleted scene in it’s raw un-finalized form. They were not integrated into the film proper, there would just be icon links that allowed you to watch the deleted scenes in order while you watched the film.

I also remember hearing around the time X2 was being released that there were plans at one point to film newly shot footage during the production of the sequel that would be integrated into the first film to create a true extended cut which is what X-Men 1,5 was supposed to be, but for whatever reason that idea fell through.

EDIT: Upon looking at the Blu-ray features (which I have never watched), The Enhanced Viewing mode that is offered on that disc appears to be exactly what was on the DVD. There was never a proper extended cut on any release as far as I am aware of but I would love to see someone put one together.

Setzer said:

sanjuro_61 said:

Setzer said:

From what I understand, you used the 2017 Remastered Blu-ray?

Yes.

Are you aware of the problems with it?

It seems to me that the whole point of this project is to attempt to fix those problems as much as can be done with what is available, and based on the screencaps it looks like he did a fantastic job. Yes, It is obvious that DNR was used on this transfer, but all issues aside there is no denying that this is by far the most detailed video source that has ever been commercially released for this film.

Are there more issues besides DNR, color timing, and a few digital fixes, all of which seem to be addressed with this project?

A lot of newer fans or people who just weren’t paying attention to video releases at the time don’t seem to realize that there was a significant gap between the VHS and DVD releases of The Phantom Menace of over a year, whereas Attack of the Clones came out on both formats at the exact same time, so the VHS used the exact same transfer as the Full Screen DVD, which was the “2002 Home Video cut” of the film.

The only reason the DVD of TPM is different from the VHS is because the DVD was delayed and by the time George finally decided to release it on that format, he used it as an excuse to make further changes to the film. The changes to AOTC were done before any video release.

I personally think Kyle Lambert would be an excellent choice to commission new artwork for a box set. His artwork is very reminiscent in style to Struzan, and his work is kinda hot right now with Stranger Things being really big at the moment.

I loved the Jurassic Park poster he did, as well as the Super 8 poster and the cover art for the Jumanji 4k Blu-ray.

ChainsawAsh said:

1080p Blu-Ray copies would certainly be doable, but I don’t know of anyone (including the members of the 4K77 forums) who is capable of authoring and burning a 4K Blu-Ray that is playable in a standalone player. I for one put my 4K copies on a flash drive to plug directly into my TV and watch them through my TV’s built in media player software. Most UHD BR players are capable of this as well.

1080p Blu-ray discs are fine, I just do not currently have the means or knowledge to do it myself. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated!

Moiisty said:

Whats the point of a 35mm film print for rots, anything changed?

Very little, but yes things were changed. A wipe became a straight cut for the DVD, then for the Blu-ray it reverted back to a wipe but subtle visual enhancements were made to a few shots and some sounds and extra dialogue were added into the Blu-ray sound mix.

Is there anyone who may possibly be able to assist me in acquiring disc copies of 4k77 and 4k83? I can provide whatever materials necessary, I just do not possess the means to obtain and burn these projects myself.

Yeah, I remember reading about that a while back. I had the 1998 DVD forever and I assumed it was just a rights thing. Looked it up and yeah, it was blurred in theaters because of a Pepsi deal. Now I have the 1981 laserdisc as well and it even has the Coke logo blurred. The “rockin’ rydell” blu-ray replaced it with the design on the blue wallpaper of the burger place. It looks pretty bad now I think, I’d prefer the blurred sign. I’ll bet the new Pepsi ad/logo is much better than the rockin rydell background.

Are you sure you aren’t getting mixed up with the Sing Along version that was released theatrically several years back and which I believe is also available for streaming? That version is the only one I am aware of that had the coke sign digitally removed and replaced with the wall pattern behind it, as well as various other graphics digitally imposed through the film. I have the Rockin’ Rydell DVD and Blu-ray and i’m 99% sure it still has the same blurred out signs that every other transfer had prior to the 4k release.

For what it is, This looks really good. It is seriously baffling to me that Disney has not released an official Blu-ray of this by now, not even a DMC exclusive or anything. It has a big enough cult following especially with the 90s nostalgia boom going on right now. Anything would be better than the crap fullscreen US DVD at this point.

After various comments I’ve cone across about E.T. on other forums I’ve been extremely interested in finding out whether or not it’s possible that E.T. had 2 different theatrical sound mixes during its theatrical run.

Is it possible that the 70mm 6 track had differences from Dolby stereo? I’ve always known the VHS (and probably laserdisc, I’ve never seen it) has an alternate line in place of the terrorist line which was re ADR’ed altogether for the 2002 cut, but I never thought much of it until someone on Blu-ray.com said they saw a 70mm print from 1982 recently screened at the American Cinematheque which did not contain the terrorist line. I also seem to recall the VHS had a couple of minor sound differences to theatrical sound mix on the Blu-Ray as well as the 2002 DVD of the 82 cut.

I also found a quote from Kathleen Kennedy in 2001 around the time the 20th Anniversary Cut was being put together where she states that she and Spielberg didn’t even remember the terrorist line until the were going over the film and decided in light of then recent events to have new ADR done which was the Hippie line. Is it possible that the reason they forgot about the Terrorist line was because there were 2 different mixes and most people over the past 20 years had been hearing the other one?

I still don’t buy Lucasfilm’s excuse that it’s a time and money thing. Haven’t there already been a few notable people in the industry who have offered to pay for a restoration?

JayArgonaut said:

403 Forbidden?

Sorry, After I realized the links didn’t work, the internet went out on me last night. I’ll have to figure it out when I get home. I still can’t figure out how to post the image links so they display properly.

JayArgonaut said:

That’s really nice of you to offer. Yes, if you can, please do. 😃

Does the '98 DVD contain the English intro text crawl? Universal erased it from the 2003 DVD and they replaced it with DVD generated subtitles, depending upon the language selection. This completely skipped my mind, till the theatrical version aired on TV recently. I don’t know what the case is with the Blu-ray. It’s insane the amount of subtle or glaring revisions that are visited upon films.

JayArgonaut said:

How can we forget to include this? 😮

The Babylon 5 DVD’s have been visually altered (mutilated, really) in order for WB to market them as “16:9.”

http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/Babylon_5_DVD_Releases

http://home.iae.nl/users/starcat/b5tvm/

https://www.modeemi.fi/~leopold/Babylon5/DVD/DVDTransfer.html

The title seen during the closing moments of the Scarface Special Edition DVD, “this film is dedicated to Howard Hawks and Ben Hecht” has a different screen position and text colour from the version featured on the 1998 widescreen VHS release. I suspect but can’t confirm 100% that the VHS (and LD, presumably) title text is very likely from the theatrical print and de Palma probably created a new version for the SE DVD. Sadly I no longer have a copy of the W/S VHS release from which I could produce a comparison screen grab.

I have the '98 Scarface DVD which i’m pretty sure uses the same transfer as the laserdisc. I know it’s non animorphic and looks alot rougher than the 2003 Anniversary Edition transfer. I could screencap it for you if you’d like, I’d just have to do a little digging in my closet as I’m not sure which box it’s in at the moment.

So was Anakin’s hand a physical prop in the 35mm version while it was CG in the digital version?

Unlike The Phantom Menace which came out on DVD a year or so after the VHS and included many changes, Attack of the Clones was released on DVD and VHS at the same time, so the transfer on the VHS should be the exact same one as the Full Screen DVD, and would have exactly the same changes compared to the theatrical release.

Is there any possible way I could get a copy of this from someone if I were to send a blank with prepaid envelope? I Do not currently have any means to burn this myself but have really been wanting to see this.

Any help is appeciated.