Interesting, I had forgotten that there was another track.
It still feels a bit catchy and cool for Star Wars, but it might indeed work better. Too bad he didn’t do something as weird as Jabba’s Baroque Recital.
I went back through your proposed changes, NeverarGreat. The vast, vast majority seem wonderful - this will definitely become my archival version. I have a couple of questions about a few of your items:
- Edit out Finn’s accidental activation of the Falcon’s game table. - I was going to advocate in favour of keeping this (nothing wrong with a cheeky easter egg so long as they’re not overdone), but then realised you are including it as part of Rey’s link with Kylo, which makes a lot of sense. So is the main reason you’re taking it out here just so you don’t repeat a shot? Or for the benefit of not putting a joke in that earlier scene for its tone? Or for using its lightness to contrast with the threat of Kylo overshadowing it in the interrogation? I don’t have an opinion either way, I’m just interested to know the thought process.
The idea of reusing the shot was quite speculative, and since I’m finding other places to use the other shots which would have gone in such an interrogation sequence it probably won’t end up being used there. As for whether the table scene is cut, the most recent mockup is about the best I can do so at some point I’ll need to make a decision as to whether it will stay. My original reasoning for removing this moment was that it was one reference too far in a movie filled with references, and one that for me legitimately distracts from the scene.
- Re-score the in-universe music in Maz’s castle to something more in keeping with the Byzantine decoration. - This is the only one I have a strong objection to! I really love this song. Which is subjective, and perhaps you don’t, but I don’t feel like the song not matching the decor (in a fictional universe only borrowing from our own) is strong enough to justify the change, especially weighed against the quality of the song.
I like a lot of Lin-Manuel’s music, from what I’ve heard anyway, but this song feels off to me, in the specific way that parts of JJ’s Star Wars aesthetic feels off. It’s difficult to describe exactly, but basically it’s a look and sound which is blunt, rounded off, obvious, in-your-face, etc. In contrast, the aesthetic of the OT was quite alien, with a lot of striking sounds and objects which nevertheless resisted obvious interpretation. This is one area in which The Last Jedi fares much better. But anyway, the song feels like a good fit for JJ’s aesthetic, but that’s why I have issues with it. I hope that made some sense.
- Kylo’s conversation with Snoke is bereft of Hux’s intrusion. Snoke does not learn the location of the Resistance Base in this film. - Sounds perfectly reasonable since this is using Hal’s edit as a foundation. Do you expect to need to do anything to TLJ (which AFAIK you don’t have plans to touch yet) in order to accommodate this? TESB didn’t need to explain ‘oh btw they’ve been found’, but again I’m just interested to know what if anything your plans are here.
My plan right now is actually to have Hux appear in the second Snoke scene, but only so that Snoke can order the Republic destroyed. I intend to keep the Resistance base a secret from the First Order, and I’m not worried about how the FO eventually learns of its location. If I never get to editing TLJ, it can just be something that they figured out offscreen (unless I have some brilliant idea and end up changing the end of TFA even more).
- Remove the final journey to Luke’s island. This material is instead repurposed as the dream sequence preceding the interrogation. The final shot of the film is the Falcon jumping to Hyperspace. - Perfectly good suggestion (coupled with buying the start of TLJ more time for the acquisition of bombers, etc), but again, just interested to know what knock-on effect you think this might have. Do you foresee needing to amend the opening of TLJ to get Rey in front of Luke?
As with the previous plan, I don’t think TLJ needs to be altered to show Rey landing on Luke’s planet or anything like that. It can just be assumed that she got there eventually, if I do end up nixing the ending of TFA. This is the part of the edit which is still very much in limbo right now.
After trying a lot of different approaches to a dream sequence on Jakku, I came to the conclusion that using actual footage of the island was a mistake. At this point in the story Rey should have little to no indication that she is Force sensitive. This has had ramifications for my plans later in the edit. The dream sequence of the island before the interrogation now feels odd because it comes largely out of nowhere, and since it happens right before the interrogation it would probably be fresh in Rey’s mind and Kylo would single it out more than he does already. After the interrogation there isn’t much room for any dream sequence, and only one time where Rey is knocked out. So who knows if the ending will change.
- Edit: You also mentioned withholding the Poe reveal on Takodana. Will you still be showing as much as possible of those lovely water-skimming shots, but just be cutting the cuts to Poe’s face?
In the original cut, the water skimming is a single shot which has been cut to reveal Poe, so I’ll just be rejoining the original shot and leaving his reveal for after ‘That’s one hell of a pilot!’.
My concern with this concept is that it diminishes the conclusion of Episode 4. It unnecessarily leaves the door open to future films, which feels off to me. I’m fine with them explaining these are the remains of DS1 in ROTJ. But I think ANH should end fully.
I think it comes down to the VFX for the explosion. I think it could be done in a way that shows catastrophic damage to the station (where there are almost certainly no survivors) and still keep some skeleton/large pieces intact. If so, it would have no effect on the end of ANH, while making the reconstruction even more disturbingly sinister in ROTJ.
RL, you had suggested a change to the restructure where Kylo senses Han, so here it is implemented:
Password: fanedit
I decided to cut the preceding dialogue since it weirdly concerned only Rey and not the group of people Kylo knows are nearby.
If at the end of the saga Rey were to mostly lose her Force abilities, it would really serve to establish how the Force is returning to a state of balance and a counterpoint to the inherited greatness of the Skywalker’s abilities.
Even if Rey isn’t a Skywalker, she is essentially the heir to that role and the bearer of their legacy. I believe it’s fitting that the end of the Skywalker story would focus on a non-Skywalker who will carry and pass on the torch after they’re gone.
If you want to talk about a heir, technically it would be Kylo aka Ben Solo who should inherit Anakin’s lightsaber and the Millennium Falcon as birthrights, being the only current surviving member of that family.
Obviously because of his history that will never be allowed to happen but he still has far more right to that legacy than Rey ever will who is essentially a random with a ridiculous affinity for the force…
Yep, that’s literally the point of her and Kylo’s characters. You’re so close, think about it a bit more and maybe you’ll understand the filmmakers’ intention and what I meant by “heir.”
Among possible responses, this was probably the most Waltersobchakeit.
You can pretty clearly see Star Destroyers in front of the Command ship in those space battle shots, so it’s not a continuity error.
The transition felt abrupt without the crossfade to Kylo, but it’s not ideal.
I kind of like the longer pause as the Starkiller hologram appears. Having ‘This is Starkiller Base’ is strange because of the emphasis on ‘This’, implying the Death Star lines, and is why it’s been cut. What is weirdest to me right now is the lack of center channel sound, so something will need to go there like computer sounds and such. Also, simply cutting the beginning of the shot would mean losing the continuity of the holographic terrain.
Moving back to Acts 2/3, here’s a look at one way to integrate Kylo into the Starkiller charging sequence.
Password: fanedit
The other change, removing mention of the Death Star during the briefing, is a work in progress but I think it already improves the scene.
It always looked to me like half of his face was burned somehow resulting in him losing control, but it may just be the deep shadows in the shot.
That mental image will no doubt crop up the next time I watch the movie. The descriptions of death in the Star Wars novelization creeped me out as a kid.
That does bring up a question. Did the Rebels allow fleeing Imperials to escape? Or was there too much chaos going on to bother chasing them? Did Luke have any trouble getting back to Endor in what was probably Palpatine’s ride?
No! Don’t shoot! I’m General Skywalker!
Go on! Pull the other one!
I can’t imagine the Rebels would have gone after anyone lucky enough to escape the DS2, especially if they just waited while the Imperial fleet scampered off.
The Prequels are about Anakain’s fall, the Originals Anakin’s dark deeds and eventually redeemption. I think the Sequels are about Anakin’s legacy.
Although I am against having Anakin return in any form, this is an interesting point.
In fact more broadly the Sequels are concerned with legacy and legends, while the prequels were concerned with visions and prophecy. Both look to the originals for their power.
That is far and away the best fan film I’ve ever seen.
Are you saying it isn’t a lightsaber duel in search of a plot?
That there was no lightsabering didn’t even occur to me. It’s just great.
That is far and away the best fan film I’ve ever seen.
EDIT: I do have to say, it does help that BB-8 says the location is “need-to-know”, and how it seems like Rey relents and basically says, “if you can’t tell me where your Base is, then I’ll just drop you off at Ponema terminal”. Which helps explain why she doesn’t take them all the way there. It could raise the question of why Finn doesn’t tell her and would that make Rey suspicious, but the scene moves pretty quick and Rey seems to accept that she just might not be allowed to know. So either Rey assumes that Finn isn’t allowed to tell her, or that Finn doesn’t know because he is a just field operative or something.
That’s exactly what I was trying to convey with the edit.
A lot of what I am doing is super subjective and nitpicky, and even though I try to construct a logic for it the fact is that movies are a mire of subjective feelings and assumptions held together with music and goodwill. In the end the reasons for cutting or keeping a moment come down to the sum total of these feelings. For example, when my girlfriend and I first watched TFA we both immediately interpreted BB-8’s thumbs-up as a well-known rude gesture, and not because we weren’t sold on BB-8 but maybe because we were more invested in him than in anyone else in the scene. Personally, I wouldn’t react well if someone got in my face and admitted to lying to me, while simultaneously putting me on the spot to betray the trust of people for whom I care. Mission or no mission, that would get me defensive and angry, hence the interpretation of the rude gesture. I totally respect that this might not be the prevailing interpretation or even one that makes logical sense, but it’s the feeling that’s stayed with me and the deeper reason for this change.
And who knows, maybe later I’ll decide to keep the scene for one of the justifications you describe or for some other reason. My interpretation isn’t more valid than that of anyone else, hence the attempt at logic when making an edit to share with the community. 😃
Maybe Han doesn’t feel like finding Luke is as important as it seems to us and the Resistance. So to Han, taking a brief detour doesn’t feel like a big deal.
Haha, I never thought of that! It’s all Han’s fault!
That is easy to say, but it is still likely something else could have gone wrong before they made it to the Resistance. Someone else could have tracked the Falcon, or someone could have recognized them at Ponema Terminal, who knows?
True, it was just a funny HISHE moment on my part. 😃
And if you make it to where BB-8 chooses not to tell them, then it kinda becomes his fault that all of that happens instead of Han’s. Alternatively, you could make BB-8 not know, but you would think a Resistance astromech would know where the Resistance Base is.
I’m willing to accept that BB-8 is hardwired to protect the Resistance even if it causes problems.
Every option presents problems, but I think just having Han not want to face Leia raises the least amount of issues.
I think that Han might have been able to get the intel from BB-8 due to his old Rebellion status but decides to go to Maz anyway. Later Maz declines his request and says that he should go, implying that she can provide the location, so I think that aspect of his character remains in either version. I also feel strongly that Han’s appearance should be in service to the plot of getting to the Resistance rather than being simply a detour, especially since we’re supposed to identify with him as a knowledgeable father figure as Rey does.
Also, it is kind of weird that Rey is just gonna drop them off at Ponema Terminal. Why not just take them all the way to the Base, then go back? If she is so concerned about getting BB-8 to the Resistance, why not make sure he gets there?
That line feels out of character for her, doesn’t it? She’s established to be so decent and promised that she would get him back, but then suddenly doesn’t after BB-8 bets everything on her. I think that line at least makes sense in the latest version.
Yeah, I did like four versions trying to keep the head turns and thumbs up, but none of them really worked without him eventually spilling the beans. In all the versions BB-8 knows the location of the base, but he refuses to give it to Rey or Finn.
Password: fanedit
I suppose there might be room to keep the head turning when Rey says ‘I’ll drop you two at Ponema Terminal’, showing that BB-8 is torn on his decision, but ultimately it should go against every bit of his programming to give the location to someone who just lied to him about his identity as a Resistance fighter.
Your point about Han’s reticence is well taken, and I think that is part of why he doesn’t want to go there directly. But it seems extreme for him to endanger the galaxy just because he doesn’t want to face Leia.
Something that just occurred to me - if Han hadn’t suddenly appeared, Finn and Rey would have flown BB-8 to the Resistance without incident, Rey wouldn’t have been captured, Finn would have told the Resistance about the Starkiller before it destroyed the Hosnian system which would certainly have allowed for the Senate and fleet to be evacuated, the fleet could have bolstered the Resistance forces in taking out the Starkiller, and Han himself wouldn’t have died.
I’ve made some more progress on the edit over the past few days, mostly incremental progress and tightening up transitions but some actual new changes.
One change that has proven oddly difficult is removing BB-8’s mention of the Ileenium system. In the original, Han decides to go to Maz’s place because the Falcon is too easily tracked, yet they eventually take it to the Resistance base and to Luke’s island anyway. Removing our heroes’ knowledge of the Ileenium system also makes Han’s assistance necessary. But anyway, I’ve tried about everything and still can’t find a seamless way of skipping that information. Maybe it will require cutting the entire exchange.
Huh, I didn’t notice it in your first version, but that little “Force” sound you added when Han grabs the saber really helps sell it.
You can kinda still hear the background music in one of Leia’s lines, and it’d be nice if that “too much Vader” line could fade out more.
Definitely something to clean up.
A few other things, it looks kinda weird to me how he opens his mouth. I guess it is meant to be like he is about to say something, but I might cut that a little shorter, because it feels slightly jarring to me. Maybe don’t have his mouth open so wide? Not really sure.
I struggled with this quite a bit. Cutting earlier felt weird since he isn’t too outwardly emotional, but as you say it’s weird anyway.
Also, I can think there should be a lot more space between the “Vader” line and Kylo stabbing him. I’m guessing it is meant to be like Kylo’s instant reaction, but I kind of think it would be nice to keep a little bit of that tension the original had, where we are just sitting there waiting for the worst to happen. So maybe a less of a gap between Han’s two lines. Let them be a little closer together. I also think you shouldn’t use that shot of their hands tightening on the saber until after the light disappears and Kylo starts doubting Han. Because from what I understand, what he first hears about Leia is positive, but then when he hears Han’s words, it is negative, so maybe after he hears Han’s first lines (or both) then you can cut to that shot. Just my two cents though. The way you have done the room darkening looks really good too by the way!
Thanks, I can certainly put the saber tightening shot later and see if that works, the main reason it’s there is because it keeps the focus on Kylo instead of cutting away to the sun.
Interesting idea, but it would be over a decade before Rey is even born at this point.
I fully support any attempt at removing Leia as the ‘other’, but this raises a separate problem. The ST is based on the canon that Luke and Leia are sisters, so any removal of Leia’s powerful destiny would also have to keep her relation to Luke for the ST to function.
So, if an edit kept Leia as Luke’s sister while downplaying that she is the ‘other’ and keeping that mysterious, then it could work, but in no version of the story do I think that name-dropping Rey would make sense.
I think something along these lines is good, while not overwhelming people with categories:
• General Star Wars Discussion
• Episodes of the Star Wars Saga
• The Expanded Universe
• Theatrical Cuts vs. Subsequent Releases
• Toys & Memorabilia
Then if you wanted to organize discussion of each trilogy or each film, you could have individual stickied threads for general discussion of each trilogy/film in the saga subforum.
This assumes that Starkiller is mobile and/or can drain stars from lightyears away. Neither ability is indicated, though it’s not ruled out completely. However, it makes sense to me that the only part of the Starkiller that can affect faraway stars is the ‘Hyperlightspeed weapon’.
The TLJ soundtrack is definitely one reason it’s so hard for me to fully appreciate that movie. Whenever it seems like Williams will fully commit to a new theme there is some sort of rug-pull which interrupts the flow. Probably my favorite new themes of TLJ happen at the Fathier chase and before the Hyperspace ram, which means that as soon as the themes are fully developed there is no chance in the story to revisit them in their full power anymore.
Thinking about the popular response to Star Wars movies over the years, I realized that the goodness or badness of the films might not be as important as where they sit in relation to the OT. Anything close to the OT in the timeline benefits from a ‘Star Warsy-ness’ simply due to proximity, whereas the one film so far which has been two movies removed from the OT can begin to be appreciated as its own weird thing. The unfortunate middle chapters are caught in a no-man’s land of disrepute simply by their position.
