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Molly

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29-Jul-2004
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13-Dec-2017
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2177

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Post
#1031341
Topic
Superman I-III extended TV cuts: Where have the preservations gone?
Time

Not to my knowledge.

I was working on hacking together a RIC of sorts, but shortly after I started trying to synch up the third rip, I burned out and set to work on other projects (this happens a lot to me since I frequently juggle several projects at once) - I might try going back to it soon if I feel up to it.

Post
#1027889
Topic
Superman I-III extended TV cuts: Where have the preservations gone?
Time

Got a fairly precise tag on that ABC recording: WXYZ (Detroit, MI), April 20 1986; broadcast started at 8 pm, but about an hour is missing, not including commercials.

Pan-scanning is proving to be the most tedious part. That said, the two TV sources I already had do not have identical cropping, so perhaps it was done further down the line.

Post
#1027357
Topic
Superman I-III extended TV cuts: Where have the preservations gone?
Time

A couple friends of mine have offered to procure me the BD of Superman 3. In the meantime, I’ve done an analysis using a rip, so I’ve only got the theatrical to work with - that should change soon.

There are a LOT of small additions to the Yorkshire airing. There’s also one cut, as well as the closing credits being trimmed so they only start with the cast. Also, one addition has a bumper (as for a cut to commercial) right in the middle of it.

Given further source, and once I’ve procured the actual BD, I should be able to synch everything up and try to put something together.

A curiosity: do any of the extant TV rips have the opening bumper intact, and which one? I remember seeing Superman 2 on TV in the theatrical cut and the WB logo was the same one as on the RIC, but I didn’t catch such for Superman 3, and I know the BDs for Superman 2, 3 and 4 are all plastered with the current logo. (Obviously Superman 2 is also plastered on the RIC and the TV master I saw, as the Shield of Staleness didn’t show up until several years after the movie came out!)

Post
#1026692
Topic
Superman I-III extended TV cuts: Where have the preservations gone?
Time

Booshman said:

To be bluray compliant I’m going with 1280x720 (pillarboxed) for the 4:3 version, and 1920x1080 for the widescreen.

Does anyone have any tips on upscaling the DVD footage from the RIC? I have magicbullet for after effects, but if there is a better option I’d like to know. I need to increase the the size by 28%, and it would be nice for it to look as good as possible.

Also, I don’t know how possible it is, but is there any way of sorting out the interlacing that is present in the added footage. The DVD is interlaced. When I open it in TMPGEnc and turn on de-interlace, all of the footage shows as de-interlaced apart from the new stuff. The makers of the original disc must have messed up somewhere in their workflow and it means there are a lot of frames that look like this:

[img]http://i.imgur.com/ZUak59n.jpg[/img]

Could this be sorted out with avisynth?

How good results would nnedi3_rpow2(2) look, giving you 1440x960 out of the vob?

The ISO I have of the RIC is progressive, though I usually have DGIndex process everything as actual 30i, and then go in and ivtc it in Avisynth.

In some particular bad cases, I’ve been able to use qtgmc and/or srestore to fix some interlacing/telecine issues. No idea if this will fix your specific problem.

Post
#1026691
Topic
Superman I-III extended TV cuts: Where have the preservations gone?
Time

Booshman said:

One thing you’ll notice when you get the bluray is that the theatrical cut’s colour timing is completely different to the DVD master and also looks nothing like the Donner Cut. The colours on the blurays are all over the place. Superman the movie extended version and TRDC being the least affected. The theatrical cut of 1 and 2, and movies 3 and 4 look drastically different to how they looked before, with skin toines and Superman’s suit looking very off.

I’m not sure - sometimes the RIC looks more like the theatrical BD, sometimes more like the RDC BD. For the prison laundry sequence and the Houston sequence, it’s definitely closer to the theatrical but for the Daily Planet invasion later in the film, it’s much closer to Donner.

I’ve completely recoloured 3 and 4 already, and have some work done on the Lester version. I don’t just want to match it to the Donner version though, as that looks a bit off. Colours are too saturated, the fortress looks blue, etc. I want to tweak the Donner Cut and try to get as close to that with the lester version.

Sounds reasonable.

Regarding the Superman 3 RIC, a lot of the deleted scenes are on the bluray, but not all. They are 4:3 SD, but from a good master. They could be used to fill in a lot of gaps. The main component missing to do a great quality composite is the beginning space credits and the opening sequence without the regular credits overlayed.

Nice.

It’s a pity we don’t have better quality of everything, but it sounds like a RIC of Superman 3 would certainly look a lot better than the Superman 2 RIC.

digitalfreaknyc said:

Just an fyi, those are PAL sizes. The original NTSC would be preferable.

They’re actually in between NTSC and PAL. 😉 As well, scaling the BD to 1280x720 yields a cropped image of 1280x528 - so 704x528 is probably a good compromise resolution if compatibility with hardware players is not an object (for me, it isn’t, although I understand for most people here it is).

Post
#1025966
Topic
Superman I-III extended TV cuts: Where have the preservations gone?
Time

Booshman said:

Molly said:

Just got to thinking. I know there’s a cap of Superman 3 from some ITV affiliate - are there any other caps of the extended cut in circulation? I’m wondering if perhaps another cap could be used to compensate for flaws in the one I have.

As far as I know I have all available version of Superman 3 TV version that have been put to DVD

Yorkshire TV version. (Single layer DVD)

This is the one I had, and referred to as from “some ITV affiliate”. The tape it comes from seems to be somewhat worn (but the audio, while muffly, is adequate, and the video is certainly watchable).

BLAX version. (Single layer DVD)
Unknown source PAL capture (2 x Single layer DVD)
1986 ABC version (Single layer DVD) (missing first 50 minutes)

These I was not aware of.

I think this version is currently the best all around quality version you can get although it isn’t complete. I hadn’t noticed until after it was released, but the “Smallville Flash” part of the drinking scene is missing. It’s present in the BLAX version and the YTV version, but not the ABC or 2 disc PAL version. It’s probably worth going though all versions just to see if there are any other bits exclusive to the different captures.

I don’t disagree. Isn’t that basically how the Superman 2 RIC was cut together?

I think a best version could be created using the movie and deleted scenes from the bluray, and filling in the rest from VHS. It would be nice to get a good quality source to work from, particularly for those 50 minutes missing from the ABC cut, but idealy the whole thing.

Again, I agree.

Not having the BD yet, I don’t know how much that would entail.

I’ve made some progress on Superman 2. I have pan and scanned about 2 hours of the bluray to recreate the TV cut. Still need to do the last half hour. The whole thing is going to need colour correcting to match all of the different sources. I’ve used the opening and end credits from a HDTV rip since the whites are blown out on the bluray and they look bad. I’ve also done this for a few shots where detail is lost from the blow out, explosions and stuff like that. The VHS footage still needs to be upscaled and added in. I’m looking into how to do that in best quality.

You’re well ahead of me, since I’m still analyzing the different cuts to decide if there’s anything I can use the Donner cut for (and color matching would certainly be a pain for some scenes, where you can’t take the video from a single source).

I really noticed this when trying to cut together the “mission control” sequence (with the “hair dryer” joke from the Donner cut after most of the scene from the Lester cut and then a piece of shot from the RIC).

Post
#1025753
Topic
Superman I-III extended TV cuts: Where have the preservations gone?
Time

Just got to thinking. I know there’s a cap of Superman 3 from some ITV affiliate - are there any other caps of the extended cut in circulation? I’m wondering if perhaps another cap could be used to compensate for flaws in the one I have.

By the way, I’ve been doing comparison shots to try to determine the best approach for certain scenes in Superman 2.

Post
#1023391
Topic
Superman I-III extended TV cuts: Where have the preservations gone?
Time

Given that the deleted scenes on the Donner BD are still anamorphic SD MPEG2 (two of them, at least, are in the RIC), would you clean them up or use the RIC versions?

I know the “Son of Jor-el, prepare to die” sequence is identical to the RIC. I haven’t checked the “Arctic Patrol” scene.

Post
#1023337
Topic
Superman I-III extended TV cuts: Where have the preservations gone?
Time

I think it may take two different approaches to do the two edits depending on whether I want quality or authenticity.

The “alpha waves/pasta fazoli” shot seems to be different in all three cuts (the OTV lacks the “pasta fazoli” part, which both the RIC and RDC have, but the RIC and RDC are obviously different takes, as marked by Otis’s slightly different reaction to the mention of alpha waves). Most likely for an authentic cut I’d need to use the RIC footage, but for a high quality cut, the RDC would be a better choice.

Post
#1022785
Topic
Superman I-III extended TV cuts: Where have the preservations gone?
Time

(This may be already well known to most people, but reflects my analysis of the RIC while reconstructing it.)

I’ve analyzed up to 23 minutes and afaict this is all exclusive:

  • The Concorde scene, this is documented (16:17-16:45)
  • 2 additions to the “juicer” scene in the Daily Planet offices
    • 21:57-22:02 (two shots)
      Lois: "Nobody knows it, that’s all"
      Clark: "Heh…"
      Lois: “Especially not you”
    • 22:15-22:25
      Clark: "Why don’t you get one of those automatic ones, Lois? It’d be a little bit easier"
      Lois: “Don’t you know there’s an energy crisis on, Clark? Besides…it’s good enough for my mother”

This post has been edited.

Post
#1022326
Topic
Superman I-III extended TV cuts: Where have the preservations gone?
Time

A couple friends have tentacles out for the BDs of Superman II and Superman II RDC. I’ll see what I can do.

If I am able to do it, I will do it in two forms:

  • A full length cut, at 720x540, using as much restored footage as possible (cropped to 4:3).
  • A shorter cut, at 1280x540 (possibly also at a higher resolution), with only the restored footage.

No guarantees.

Post
#1021013
Topic
Superman I-III extended TV cuts: Where have the preservations gone?
Time

I don’t know if there are multiple releases or not, but that it’s not uncommon for there to be multiple releases of a film on a particular video format, ex-rental versions with bonus features stripped out, reissues with different or more/fewer bonus features, etc., and since it had been out on BD for a while, figured there might have been a “silent reissue” or so which differed from the original.

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