Lt. Hija

Interesting thread. I'll side with those that feel that "Obi-Wan" is rather a title than a name, especially since it resembles "Pada-Wan" quite a lot.

ANH established that Leia knew his real or adopted first name of "Ben".

That he adopted it before the time Luke (and Leia) were born could also be a gesture of huumility, i.e. that he himself felt he no longer deserved the title "Obi-Wan"- after his failure training Luke's father adequately to withstand the tempations of the Dark Side. 

Addressing him as "Obi-Wan" in her holomessage I'd say by already doing that Leia made it clear that his capabilities as an "Obi-Wan" were absolutely necessary to see to it that the Death Star plans were safely delivered to Alderaan.

Anyway, I prefer to only refer to "Ben Kenobi", by sticking with his ANH name I believe I express sufficiently that I have no big love for the PT. 

Ziggy Stardust said:

Alderaan said:

I don't think you have to worry about it being awful like the prequels; however, it's very likely that it will be a forgettable movie. The real angst will be to watch a contained story devolve into "what cool characters and plot can we think up next?" serial of the week. The difference is the same as that between a symphony and a pop concert.

 I certainly hope not. Although, the prequels have even managed to have some memorable moments, despite them not being the most fond amongst the majority. Many people remember podracing, the lava planet, the clones, Darth Maul's fight scene, etc. I'm sure there will be things to remember in TFA. I already have the image of Kylo igniting his lightsaber in the forest and the crashed Star Destroyer stuck in my memory, and those were just from the trailers.

Which of the two Star Destroyers? The one with its conning tower above the sands or the upside down larger one with the conning tower deeply buried inside the sand....? ;-)

The latter one is one of the most striking visuals linking back to the Original Trilogy, IMHO.

brash_stryker said:

timdiggerm said:

 

 This is one of the big mysteries of the film. Why is Luke in seclusion? Why hasn't he trained anyone?

My take on it is that he has trained some Jedi before going into hiding. Maz Kanata for one, as she seems to have force training of some sort judging by her dialogue. Where would she have got that from if not from Luke?

Also Han says "They're real" referring to the Jedi. Not they were real, but they ARE. My guess is that there are quite a few former pupils of Luke's scattered about the galaxy, having gone into seclusion because of...something.

I have picked up several fragments of rumors but they could indicate a pattern:

THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK: one theory that sounds credible to me was that Dagobah and in particular the cave with the man made structure inside used to be a Dark Lord's place and Yoda's presence somewhat counter-balanced the dark energy which also made him invisible to the Emperor and Vader

REBELS: Kanan thinks the temple on Lothal is of Jedi origin, but I think he could be mistaken because architecture and hieroglyphs suggest quite the opposite (according to Ralph McQuarrie)

THE FORCE AWAKENS: Somewhere it had been mentioned that Luke is doing something similar as Yoda did in ESB.

So, are the Jedi avoiding a confrontation with the new Dark Lords, let "mundanes" handle it first and just make sure that powerful Sith artefacts don't fall into the wrong hands?

Just my two 0.02 $

P.S. Phasma looks like a Cylon warrior from BSG 1978.

What I've see thus far looks rather "derivative", what I read so far (admittedly a lot of speculation) about the plot premise sounds original.

My biggest concern had been and still is whether Abrams took Yoda's advice to heart: "Wars don't make one great"

There is a certain amount of expectation for "prequel compensation" among fans and I'm really not sure if Abrams can really provide this.

IMHO, "prequel compensation" has already been accomplished by Dave Filoni and his team with Clone Wars and Rebels.

In case TFA is awful, I'll just paraphrase Humphrey Bogart from Casablanca: We'll always have Bespin

darklordoftech said:

Be consistent about what "Sith" means. The old EU couldn't make up its mind about this.

Well, already the ANH novelization from 1977 described Vader as "a Dark Lord of the Sith was an awesome, threatening shape as it strode through the corridors of the rebel ship. Fear followed the footsteps of all the Dark Lords."

Apparently this was enough for Lucasfilm to prohibit Zahn the use of "Sith" for his noghris (what he originally wanted) but I think most people understand that Sith is the somewhat opposite of Jedi.

Personally I wholeheartedly agree that George Lucas Canon includes everything in the screenplay, novelizations and radio dramas unless such information contradicts the actual films.

Problem however is that Rogue One is probably going to rewrite the radio dramas how Princess Leia got her hands on the Death Star plans.

Frankly, I think the best thing to improve the nuEU would be first to sit down and create a database that has all the information from the films, novelizations, radio dramas and the contributions / concepts of the original artists and have that fixed first.

I want to see the original, anti-gravitational properties of tibanna gas (The Art of ESB) restored.

Agreed, Luke is the only eye-witness to what happened to his father and come to think about it, Luke might not have been too compelled to tell everybody that he was actually the son of Darth Vader.

But I think we can rest assured that the destruction of the second Death Star was somewhat communicated by the Alliance to the rest of the galaxy and accepted as the real thing (regardless of the S.E. ending).

The other thing is that Kylo has somehow acquired the helmet of Darth Vader from the burial site on Endor, already this suggests that Vader wasn't killed in the explosion of the Death Star. Although we do not know (yet) what kind of story came along with the head, I'd like to believe that Kylo would have been able to figure out that it's the result of cremation.

It currently looks to me like some kind of loose end and I'll wonder if the upcoming film is really going to elaborate on this.

towne32 said:

Fox has video distribution rights. I think they could play it in theaters without Fox's consent. V and VI could apparently be distributed digitally without Fox?

But I think an important point that people sometimes gloss over is: would Fox try to withhold this? Why would Fox try to withhold this? Would they simply not want to put money into it themselves? I can see why Disney might not want to go through with it until Fox's rights expire (or are otherwise dealt with for IV), but I can't quite see what Fox has to lose, here. 

Can we be certain about that? I recently read an article by Michael Kaminski who speculated that Fox had been offered the marketing rights for the prequels because Fox had something Lucas wanted in return and neither Warner or Universal could have give him: Star Wars - A New Hope

Therefore, it could be that Disney actually did acquire the rights for the entire Original Trilogy.

One of my friends who works with the industry told me many months ago, that the original version / theatrical edition would either be released to coincide with the theatrical premiere of TFA or its video release in 2016.

And the latest I heard about the basic story premise of TFA is that the Alliance wasn't all that victorious as the Special Edition of ROJ led us to believe, especially with its Coruscant revolution party (I always thought that the Coruscant team just won the superbowl and the party merely coincided with the defeat of the Emperor at the Battle of Endor - LOL).

Assuming that the SE of ROJ would constitute a continuity obstacle to TFA, then the reconstitution of the theatrical version (and its subsequent release) would already be one of the things we should be grateful for to TFA.

Tallguy said:

Interdictor cruisers and Mon Calamari inventing the B-Wing are pretty bedrock EU, btw.

Interdictor cruisers yes, but the concept that the B-Wing is of "alien" origin comes straight from the original production (I vividly remember a production sketch saying "alien" but it's not in the ROJ Sketchbook)

Now that someone has mentioned it, can somebody explain to me what work of Vader Kylo intends "to finish"?

Vader's last work - we witnessed - was to get rid of the Emperor and convert back to the bright side of the Force...?!?

Hello, I was just about to do a similar research about the "accurate" size of the Rebel "Gallofree" transport when a Google image search and in particular savmagoett's schematics led me to this thread.

Obviously being rather late to this party I wonder if it's okay to re-vitalize this rather interesting topic, alternately I'd be more than happy if a fellow fan or old fossil could direct me to a current one.

(I also have to voice concerns with Adywan's curving of the "first catch of the day" Star Destroyer Bridge - the images in SW The Blueprints on pages 124-125 and the production skill on page 126 - in color in the Empire of Dreams documentary - strongly suggest, IMHO, that flat bridge windows (corresponding with the conning tower of the large VFX Star Destroyer model built for ESB!) was an original studio set concept that survived at least in the "first catch of the day scene (even though it was actually photographed in the port alcove of the control deck set)

From what I read I concur with savmagoett's approach and methodology.

Rebel "Gallofree" Transport:

It appears that the process of overimposing the model of the ship in the foreground of the matte painting was erroneous (yielding the 26 m figure).

The two transports in the back (one probably lifted for repair works, hence the missing cockpit pod and aft landing gear?) look like sitting inside a much higher ice hangar compartment and seem bigger.

The ESB Sketchbook also had a size comparison page with the Rebel "Nebulon" Cruiser, the Falcon and the Rebel transport ship which looks like the 120 m figure (ROJ fleet fly-by) is accurate.

The ESB screenplay 4th draft from October 24, 1978 featured a scene inside the cockpit (pod):

"181. INT COCKPIT - REBEL TRANSPORT

The pilots are getting nervous, the captain leans over one.

CAPTAIN

I don't know if there's anyone left alive in there. Give it one more try.

PILOT

Control unit 33, this is Transport XJ...we can't wait any longer..."

Apparently the cockpit pod must be large enough to accomodate at least three people, something also suggested in the ROJ novelization reffering to (transport ships converted into "fire ships") "crews abandoning their ships to an unknown fate".

small Corellian battleship (ROJ screenplay designation aka Rebel Blockade Runner and/or Corellian Corvette):

I'm not convinced with the 150 m figure. I had the opportunity to examine the original VFX model at the Marin County Fair back in 1988 (i.e. before the SW teaser poster was added to cover the doorframe - IIRC, 16 padding elements each - on the cockpit's starboard side) and my impression was that of a scale of 1:48.

However, IMHO, the actual element that determines the real size can only be the life-size escape pod's landing module from the Tunisian desert shoot matched against the escape pods on the "wings'" underside of Princess Leia's consular ship.

I'm currently not aware of a study examining this particular detail and the results that it would have on the overall in-universe length of this iconic SW ship.

Nevertheless, an "accurate" result inevitably has ramifications regarding the in-universe size of the Devastator- or Corellia-Class Star Destroyer featured in ANH because of the holding bay VFX composition.

size of regular Star Destroyer

I don't buy that all Star Destroyers have to share an equal length of 1 mile, because that particular figure was officially introduced for the large VFX model built for ESB.

On the contrary, the ROJ novelization explicitly mentions a "larger" Star Destroyer and having compared the conning tower proportions of the smaller ANH model vs. the bigger ESB model, my bet would be that the ANH model could be the "larger" one in-universe (ultimately pending on the most accurate length figure for the Blockade Runner).

Executor vs. nameless Super Star Destroyer of the Emperor

Both the ESB Sketchbook and the Art of ESB established that the name of Vader's Star destroyer seen in the film is Executor. It was further established that the conning tower of Executor is the same size as the one of a regular Star Destroyer (nicely visualized in the Imperial fleet's approach to Hoth) and the card of the ILM guys at the 1988 Marin County exhibit clearly stated the length of Executor to be 11 miles (the erroneous 5 mile figure comes from an unfortunate mis-transcription from Glut's ESB novelization into Velasco's SW guide, adopted by the folks at West End Games).

Based on my own and independent research I concur with savmagoett that the Falcon attached to the Avenger's conning tower in ESB confirms the official 1 mile length figure and that the corresponding, accurately dimensioned forward bridge is - indeed - the one briefly seen on the large conning tower VFX model in the scene with the Rebel Starcruiser flying overhead.

If I correctly followed the discussion in this thread, then Adywan has outruled this possibility because of the Tydirium fly-by scene in front of the Super Star Destroyer's coning tower in ROJ, suggesting a much larger conning tower (with the smaller VFX bridge model module).

Inevitable question: Can we be certain that the Super Star Destroyer in ROJ is - indeed - the Executor and not just the Emperor's personal and bigger Super Star Destroyer? 

We are part of a losing battle if we don't put our money into our mouths but instead into Lucasfilm's pockets.

As I've said elsewhere here before, if you wanna do something to change the sad current state of affairs, then weigh in at the Amazon.com (p)review section for the Blu-ray release, write own comments or give those supporting our cause good ratings.

Educating many unsuspecting buyers about what to expect or more explicitly what not to expect has already turned out to be somewhat helpful (I propose that the originaltrilogy.com award medal should go to J. Bongiorno!).

Many customers are starting to wonder, if the Blu-ray release truly justifies yet another investment after the 2004 DVD release. The sad truth is, that the less people are preordering or buying this product - especially because of the lack of the original versions - the bigger the possibility that George Lucas might change his mind and start to remember all these things on behalf of film preservation and public rights he said not that many years ago.

Help George Lucas putting his money where his mouth is by not putting any more money into the pockets of his company regarding this coming Blu-ray release.

Oh Kosh, this is the moment I wish this forum had smiley buttons doing all kinds of tricks, I'd probably post them all.

“George Lucas is a history buff, and his fascination with history greatly influenced the plot and themes explored in the Star Wars universe.”

Please bear with me as I offer three samples comparing the fictional universe of STAR WARS and real history:

A) In a strange coincidence two years after NEW HOPE in the real world in July 1979 the rebels had won and had driven their dictator and his reign of terror out of their country (after an earthquake in the 70's the man had sold international blood donations to hospitals of the big brother country, instead of providing his people with the much needed aid!). Their celebration picture was taken near the steps of a church, showing civilians, supporters and rebel soldiers in a scene not too dissimilar from the final moments of NEW HOPE.

This was a rebellion against a terror regime, much like STAR WARS, "good" had won over "evil". The place: Nicaragua - The big brother: the United States of America (Roosevelt once remarked about old Somoza: He's a son of a bitch, but he is OUR son of a bitch).

Jimmy Carter didn't have the balls to stop supporting this terror regime and rather than to admit it was a fault, Ronald Reagan (thanx Ollie North) tried to destabilize the country for the next years to come, adding misery to the brave people of Nicaragua that had just wanted to get rid of the family clan, that had been raping the country for decades.

I hardly think this history lesson will make it into a book targeted at US audiences. I can already imagine people suspecting STAR WARS to be a vehicle for subversive, communist propaganda...

B) George Lucas the history buff? I can't tell whether he ever read anything about a city called Stalingrad. In a manner of speaking it was the "Battle of Endor" for the German 6th Army and the Soviet army, the turning point in World War II and the road to victory for the allied forces fighting the 3rd Reich.

At the end of JEDI we see the imperial citizens of Coruscant (the "good guys" from their own point of view) celebrating the demise of THEIR leader and THEIR forces.

After Stalingrad German audiences listening to Goebbel's speech were equally cheerful and applauding - but not because of the icy death and bitter defeat of relatives but because of the announcement of "total war".

Compare this real life event to the Special Edition of JEDI and seriously tell me that what George Lucas presented us here has anything to do with reality, mind real history.

C) Yes, the toppling of Palpatine's statue that was prophetic of the toppling of Saddam Hussein's statue in Bagdad after the invasion of Iraq in 2003.

Unfortunately, as we now know, just beating an opponent's army and toppling some statues doesn't automatically bring peace or stability and rather on the contrary Iraq sank into chaos.

In short: Even considering STAR WARS (Special Edition) to be a bait to interest young people in history is most likely an ill-fated attempt, as the final closing message is uttery unrealistic, unhistoric and reflects history understanding from the mindset of a 6 year old.

And please let's not forget INDIANA JONES: Mr. Lucas, Mr. Spielberg, how do you say good-bye in Austria? With a kiss? I had no idea Adolf Hitler was a kisser (he was from Austria, not from Germany).

And what about dictatorships and brainwashing propaganda like illustrated in 1984. How can we possibly stay clear of all that newspeak crap and rewriting of history?

I don't share Michael's optimistic faith, in my humble opinion this will be the biggest white-wash in the cultural history of the early 21st century.

After all, doesn't a company collaborating on such a book, passionately support education and truth beyond ANY shred of doubt?

Angel said:

Lt. Hija said:

I would be most curious how Adywan intends to solve the riddle with the Executor bridge (I have a copy of the original set blueprint, hopefully this one shows up in Rinzler's blueprints). The studio set was used no less than three times to simulate different sections of the Star Destroyer (plus the one mentioned earlier):

Im interested to see these bluprints if you can show them here :)

 

-Angel

 I got this from Martin Wixted (RIP) as a returned favor (still amazing that West End Games got these great original materials and had no clue what to constructively do with these!) but it's not a great copy. I will show it here, IF Rinzler and the guys from EpicInk decide NOT to publish it in the Blueprints book (I think this particular blueprint is mandatory, but don't want to ruin the chances of others not seeing it just because it got revealed here first, prior to the book's release). I hope we also get to see the complete studio set for the Emperor's Super Star Destroyer bridge they constructed for JEDI.

The studio set is in essence (counter-clockwise): port side (only) of front bridge, stairs, bulkhead door (opposite entrance to Vader's chamber), aft control station (opposite holopod corner). 

Hi everyone and yes, I know I'm late to the party. Since I heard so much about AD-1 I decided to take a look at the things he has done on YouTube and I'm utterly and deeply impressed.

"Do or do not...There is no try" Well, Adywan did while Lucas only tried. When I saw the things he did, I became uncertain of myself. Didn't I like he Special Editions because of the changes or didn't I like the S.E. because it was such a half-assed job that lacked the most important thing Adywan repeatedly expressed: passion for the material!

Also listened to the radio interview and Adywan came across as an incredibly nice, humorous, modest and common sensical person I for one hope to be able one day to meet in person and buy him a drink or a couple of these.

When I saw the NEW HOPE escape from Tatooine clip I almost fainted: He did take the only (!) shot of the NEW HOPE Star Destroyer (Vader's Devastator) from above (from EMPIRE) and re-inserted it into NEW HOPE, so even the model miniature is correct at this "point in time".

But there are also two items I noticed I wanted to mention:

I don't think there was ever anything wrong with the "first catch of the day" Star Destroyer bridge. It was filmed on the port side section of the Star Destroyer bridge set to create the illusion of a "flat" bridge (none of the model miniatures at this time had protruding bridge balconies) and this is the NEW HOPE model miniature.

I believe in diversity, can imagine different types of Star Destroyer's and bridge layouts (not to forget the Devastator, "my" ship).

The other thing was Needa's shuttle. Some friends of mine in the kitbashing community are currently trying to get to its basic design (angled-out wings) and it's another variation (huzza, finally another imperial OT vessel!) which has now turned into just another Lambda Class shuttle.

I would be most curious how Adywan intends to solve the riddle with the Executor bridge (I have a copy of the original set blueprint, hopefully this one shows up in Rinzler's blueprints). The studio set was used no less than three times to simulate different sections of the Star Destroyer (plus the one mentioned earlier):

1. Forward Bridge with windowed balcony

2. Communication station ("Apology accepted" - instrument panel near port station / catch-of-the-day captain now replaced by bulkhead door)

3. Aft Bridge ("My Lord, we have them" - port windows wall has moved to background as has holopod, angled in position to suggest outer hull at stern section of conning tower).

Just my two cents for what it's worth, AD-1, keep up your great work, mate!

TheBoost said:

Whether someone likes a movie is ultimately so irrelevant to the actual lies, deceit, and suppression of film history that the man does on a daily basis.

It's like saying you hate Al Capone, but the reason is you don't like how he dances. It might be true, but aren't you missing the point?

 

 

That's a pretty concise conclusion. So here is one major fan project with public attention and like the first X-Wing wave in NEW HOPE it misses the target.

The entire film preservation debate is much more worthy of a documentary as it concerns a general topic (and I'm not thinking of George Lucas exclusively but also Ridley Scott who's developed a strange infatuation of colorizing his films blue) and truly questions the ethical rights the artists or the audiences should have.

It's a good thing we have savestarwars.com and SOUTH PARK's episode Free Hat but obviously that's not enough, as according to a poster at Amazon.com Lucasfilm has just reconfirmed that the upcoming Blu-rays will only contain the special editions plus "additional edits"...

Dear STAR WARS friends,

as some of you have already noticed, there has been quite some traffic in the (p)review sections of Amazon regarding the Blu-Ray Disc releases scheduled for September 2011.

While I remain totally incapable of ever understanding "Special Edition" fans which are telling "Theatrical Edition" fans to shut up (what do these "Special Edition" fans have to loose if the "Theatrical Editions" were added to their set/s?!), there seems to be a 50/50 split on Amazon US while the UK fans insisting on the Theatrical Edition are currently in the majority.

Not only do these previews help to inform unsuspecting customers that the theatrical editions will not be included (considering every other renowned filmmaker does that, this could give otherwise rise to wrong expectations regarding George Lucas) - this spares Amazon unnecessary later consumer frustration and product returns - but it also sends out a clear and strong signal that there is still huge consumer demand in favor of the original, theatrical editions in High Definition.

Please add your voice and support the previewers by pressing the voting buttons or add your own preview.

And please, do not call George Lucas names. I'm certain that such profanity just postpones any chances for a theatrical release further into the future and does not help at all. In my humble opinion, asking common sense questions serves our cause more efficiently.

As a "minor" detail I think I should also point out, that according to current information the deleted scenes of the original trilogy (scenes of the theatrical edition that were deleted in favor of the Special Edition do not seem to fall under that category) will NOT be part of the NEW HOPE-EMPIRE-JEDI set.

Along with deleted scenes from the prequels these will be featured on a bonus disc that is exclusively available with the complete set, i.e. all six films. In simpler language: Not only WILL you have to settle for the Special Edition on Blu-Ray Disc, but in order to watch the deleted scenes from the original trilogy you WILL have to buy the prequels as part of the whole set, too.

Like I said, please try to refrain from profanity, although I'm aware that, considering such information, it's even more difficult.

Thanx for listening.

MAY THE FORCE BE WITH US!