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Hardcore Legend

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11-Jul-2004
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10-Apr-2022
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Post
#106789
Topic
Luke's ROTS Review (plot holes included)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/106789/action/topic#106789
Time
Quote
Originally posted by: Luke Skywalker
okay so while everyone was dying to ask me what i thought of the movie when i got home, when i went to work, or just on the net in general i still have yet to give a full answer until now...

Anakin giving into the darkside so quickly

Because the fine line between good and evil exists, giving in so quickly wouldn't be a problem. Padme's delivery was to be soon, and if he hoped to save her, he would need to act quickly.

Quote
Palpatine slaughtering 3 Jedi's without hardly breaking a sweat when they come to arrest him (sorry but jedi's clearly suck in these movies)

Those Jedi did die quickly, but even Yoda couldn't beat Palp. Of course, they could have given them 5 minutes to die, but it would have wasted time that was needed elsewhere.

Quote
The numerous decapitations in the movies (i guess they ran out of ideas on how to kill someone??)

Riiiiiight, because the same thing happening over and over again didn't happen in the first 3 films, let alone all 6. Running themes tie the films together.

Quote
Obi Wan riding a lizard

Yeah, much worse than Taun Tauns :rolleyes

Quote
Darth Vader walking like Frankenstein at the end and screaming "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO" (wow how many times have we seen that before)

An homage to Frankenstein, much like the Jedi deaths were an homage to the Godfather. I see no problem with it.

Quote
and this movie couldnt have ended on a more pathetic scene... (we all know what im talking about "binary with lars")
i dont care who says different... i could almost see George beside me nuging me saying "huh huh... get it? we'll be seeing that in the next movie" BLAHHH!!!

Again, imagery that ties the two trilogies together. What other image would you have ended with?

_________________________________________________________________

Quote
But the real reason i started this thread was to ask 2 questions...

1. What was the reaction at your theater when the movie ended? (cheered, applause, booing?)

I was absolutly stunned when at the end of the movie the crowd just began to booooo. And im not talking about a 1 second boo, i mean a full fledged BOOOOOOOOOOOOO from almost all members of the audience. I've never attended a Star Wars movie that had been booed.

As I said in another thread, I've had 5 showings since Midnight, ranging from 40 people to 500 people and ALL have had rousing applause, some standing. People laughed when they should, clapped when they should and some cried during the drama scenes. The crowd was FULLY into it.

Quote

2. did anyone else notice 2 major plot holes .... if you want to call them that...

- When Luke asks Leia if she remembers her mother "her real mother" she says yes. She continues to say that she was kind, very beautiful, but sad...

didnt Padme die after Leia was born??
now if your telling me... that she remembers that from when Padme named her before she died im gonna howl.. because theres no way you would remember as a baby if someone was sad or not....??? i dont even think a baby would know what sad is....

I would imagine, that if we can believe that those 'strong with the force' can sense others emotions, then Leia could sense the emotions, whether it be at the earliest moment of life of the person she would be most connected with at any time of her life. Like people play music for their babies in the womb because it is to have an effect on their development, I have no problem suspending belief and allowing Leia to have memories of her mother.

And you have a problem with the PT contradicting itself, but don't bring up how 'conviently' Lucas explains the contradictions in the OT?

Quote
ANYWAY

- ANH Ben says to Luke "your father wanted you to have this when you were old enough" (about anakin's lightsaber)

maybe its just me... i dont remember him saying that... do you?
and if your gonna tell me he said it off screen.... how would Anakin have known he was having a son???


Because Obi Wan doesn't EVER lie to Luke, or bend the truth. I would think, that if Anakin was excited about his child, he would have one day wanted him to have the weapon, if you look at it from 'a certain point of view'.


Your opinion is yours, and I'm not saying you are wrong in the least. Just giving you some feedback from someone who actually liked the film.
Post
#106778
Topic
My review of Episode III (minor, minor spoilers)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/106778/action/topic#106778
Time
As Palp says" There is very little that seperates the Jedi and the Sith". Anakin does all the wrong things for all the right reasons, could not the same be said about the other Jedi?

The Jedi allow a blockade and an attempt on Padme's life to escalate into a full scale war. Did the Seperatist's declare war on the Republic or merely remove themselves from it? The Trade Federation's blockade was legal, their invasion was not. However, could it not be said that the Jedi's involvement caused Palp to order the invasion on the planet below? Qui Gon goes into the negotiations with a large enough ego to believe the negotations would be short.

Eh, I'll continue this later...for now, I'm going to bed
Post
#106766
Topic
Should Maul have been Greivous?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/106766/action/topic#106766
Time
For anyone that has seen the Episode III, we see that Greivous was an actual human that was kept alive by robotics. Would it not have made the films tie together beautifully if when they panned in on Greivous' eyes, the red and black of Maul could be seen? Gives a precursor of how Palpatine would save Vader in the same way.

Obviously it didn't happen, and some may think it stupid. But I think it would have made Maul's character have some substance other than to get 10 whole minutes in the first film.
Post
#106763
Topic
ROTS: The Child Birth Scene and Sidious Motives? <em>SPOILERS</em>
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/106763/action/topic#106763
Time
Allowing him to believe HE was that cause of her death fuels his emotions, his anger and his despair. His mother's death pushed him closer to the Dark Side, as it made him feel helpless. Making him believe he was to blame makes it that much worse.

She died, as they said, because she lacked the will to live. Everything she believed in, everything she loved was now dead. The Republic, Anakin. All were lost. The twins existed, but also existed as reminders of what had happened. She was heartbroken, and had nothing to live for. She just gave up.
Post
#106762
Topic
My review of Episode III (minor, minor spoilers)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/106762/action/topic#106762
Time
When the political process was not moving at her speed, her lack of patience caused her to issue a vote of no confidence in the Chancellor, who I still to this day do not believe was corrupt.

The idea of protecting her planet is not greedy. However, putting into motion the process of a changing of the guard for the ENTIRE galaxy because she isn't getting her way is indeed greedy. Her actions set the ball in motion that the Jedi run with. The Jedi tell her they can not fight a war for her, but have no qualms about doing it for Palpatine, no matter whose name it is in. They continue to question Palpatine's motives and talk on and on about how the Dark Shroud has fallen over the Senate, but then continue to battle those who oppose the now corrupt Republic. Should they take a step back, maybe they see they are on the wrong side of the Battle. Their blind devotion to what they believe is the greater good in fact fuels Palpatine's power. I mean, how could they justify allowing him to stay in power, even if it was the will of the people?

Palpatine did not appear over night. He was obviously a Senator long enough to get himself rooted in the Senate to get voted into high office. Thus, he was not but a few miles from the Jedi temple. Yet the Jedi could not concern themselves with detecting a Sith Lord just down the street? The Sith Lord that was either the only, or one of only two in the Galaxy at the time? When you believe your the best, you don't concern yourself with what your competition may be doing. See: Yankees v Red Sox. That's called arrogance.

As for the Jedi helping him create his clone army, I have always been confused about this part.....but doesn't a Jedi order the creation of the Army? Even at that, Obi-Wan and Yoda bring the army to light, and help militarize the Republic.
Post
#106759
Topic
My review of Episode III (minor, minor spoilers)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/106759/action/topic#106759
Time
"You will find that Queen Amidala is naive, and will be easy to control"

I believe. The Jedi help him create his clone army, the Jedi help him fight a war that destroys much of the galaxy that would be able to combat his Empire.

Was Padme arrogant? She did circumvent the political process, and instead of allowing the Jedi to suggest remedies to the problem on her planet, she usarped the sitting Chancellor and allowed Palaptine to take control for her own greedy purposes. To an extent, I believe she was arrogant. But her blindness to the truth was not from arrogance, it was being naive.
Post
#106743
Topic
My review of Episode III (minor, minor spoilers)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/106743/action/topic#106743
Time
Quote
Originally posted by: MeBeJedi
"However, Palp keeps that one in the chamber, that ace up his sleeve"

Apparently to the extent of never again mentioning it in the films, much less creating a another newer, better apprentice.

Sorry, but if it is never shown to be used, either in the past or in the subsequent films, then it never existed. It was simply one more of many lies Palpatine told Anakin throughout the Saga.


And I could see that being it as well. I'm just saying it doesn't create SUCH a giant plot loophole that we can't get past it. I mean, if we can believe that people can move their hands and move things about in the air, can't we suspend belief enough that Skywalker was merely born without a father?

As for Anakin being the 'end' of the Jedi order, Anakin or no Anakin, the Jedi were doomed. Their arrogance had blinded them to the truth of the true power of the Sith and they had stood idly by, even aiding Palp in creating his Empire. I think even if it had been Dooku along Palp's side, he would have destroyed the Jedi in the same manner as he does in this film. It may have proved more difficult, as he says that Jedi are persistent, however, he defeats Yoda on his own. Anakin loses to Obi-Wan. The only difference was Palp's wagering his life that Skywalker would stop Windu. Without Skywalker and should Dooku been by his side, Pal would not have revealed himself to Anakin and Windu would not have been certain Palp was a Sith.

Palpatine was already too powerful for the Jedi to stop, as is stated in AOTC.
Post
#106742
Topic
The Liam Neeson Mystery (spoilers within but questions answered)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/106742/action/topic#106742
Time
Just to give you an idea, I can confirm the shooting of these deleted scenes because they are in Behind the Scene docs on StarWars.com and in the various trailers:

As for this one, I'm not sure what it is exactly, but I'm sure it refers to the scene in the trailer in which the Imperial shuttle type vehicle and the TIE type vehicles are seen flying towards a planet. I could be wrong.

7, 8-14, 25, 30, 32, 37-41: FedCruiser scenes cut (Grievous killing Shaak Ti, the Jedi using their lightsabers to escape GG, underwater swim, climb through shaft, many of R2's hangar gags, many Palpatine cliffhangers)
__________________________________
Whichever of these two happen in Padme's appartment with Threepo making drinks for everyone was filmed and voice recordings were done by Anthony

60: Bail and fellow Senators speak about the Senate

71: Meeting with Organa, Mon Mothma and Padme
______________________________________________

68-69: Obi-Wan tells Padme of his worries about Anakin and that he nows they're in love

88-89: Padme presents to Palpatine the Senators' petition

Post
#106733
Topic
My review of Episode III (minor, minor spoilers)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/106733/action/topic#106733
Time
While I don't agree with Palp creating Skywalker, I can see one reason for not "healing Vader" or creating a more powerful Jedi to train. It would be explained in ROTS, when he said that the Dark Lord had taught his apprentice everything he knew, and then his apprentice rose up and killed him. Anakin knew he was more powerful than Palp, he says it throughout the saga. However, Palp keeps that one in the chamber, that ace up his sleeve, not teaching his apprentice everything or putting his apprentice at a disadvantage to ensure his power. He treats Vader as his lapdog in all the films, even though Vader is far more powerful. With Vader and Palp as the only two remaining Sith/Jedi, Vader is Palp's only competition.

Now, as for my review of the film, I'm just going to paste what I told Walbler about it in his thread:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If I were to make a Star Wars trilogy, they would be III, IV, and V. I think in order of quality, they go V, IV, III, VI, II, I. While I see that you are not seeing ROTS as part of a boycott, and I've seen others that have bashed it as rubbish, I think it's great. If it had come out in 1983, we would be embracing it full on. I've now seen it 5 times (I own a theater) and have loved it each time. There are certain scenes that you still get goosebumps as they appear on the screen. John Williams score works SO wonderfully with this film. There are many moments that you feel like you are watching something out of the Godfather, the way the music takes over and the imagery blows your mind. Does it have it's faults? Sure, but all of them have. While we love the Star Wars films (particularly the OT) EVERY one of them have had their level of cheesy lines and wooden acting. ROTS is no better, and also no worse. People want to blast Portman's acting in the non-spoilerish death scene? How about you take a hard look at the celebration on Yavin when Luke, Han and Leia meet up again after the battle. I mean, really think about how bad the acting is there. It is cringe worthy.

So, while I know you are boycotting it, if you do watch it, go into it with an open mind. Think of it as the first Star Wars film EVER, and just enjoy being sucked into this summer film. I promise you, the final 45 minutes of this film will leave you screaming MORE, MORE LORD LUCAS, when I thought I would be happy to see this come to an end. Lucas somehow found a way out of the two mucky prequels to find a way of having the audience wanting more.

We've had 5 screenings for the general public, and the crowds have eaten it up. They've left buzzing about how much they enjoyed it and how they had to rush home now and watch IV because they are too excited. They've applauded at all the right times, laughed at all the intended jokes and I've actually seen people cry as Anakin does all the wrong things for all the right reasons.

Wheew, that's enough. I know I'm probably alone on this site because most of you ADORE the OT (as you should) and consider the PT bastardizations of the films that should have been untouched. But I beg you to look at this film on it's own, as if it were the first Star Wars and ANH and ESB would have followed as THE trilogy. I hope you will fill as I do, that ROTS leaves you wanting the next chapter, and that's all any film can hope to accomplish.
Post
#106730
Topic
The Liam Neeson Mystery (spoilers within but questions answered)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/106730/action/topic#106730
Time
Is there an answer to this question, because those last two responses didn't make sense to me.

The scene is apprantley shot, because Yoda meditating is in there and makes completely no sense without the voiceover. I can only hope this will be added to the DVD or the much needed Special Editions of these films to fix plot and CGI errors that could make these films enjoyable. As we've seen with MF's edits, there is still good in these films, I know it. Lucas just needs to find it.

Back to this, Qui Gonn is one of my FAVORITE characters in all of the saga, and this deletion is upsetting. Does anyone know if Neeson actually was involved, or if he refused or what it is. His voice was used in AOTC as Yoda meditates as we hear him scream "Anakin, NO!". I really believe it was merely cut for pacing to just end the film after the climactic battle and not add another 45 minutes of film after that.

But maybe a Director's Cut DVD could bring that and the Yoda Dagobah scene's back into the film.

If anyone finds news on this cut, please do share. I am VERY interested.
Post
#106728
Topic
How do you rate EpIII?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/106728/action/topic#106728
Time
If I were to make a Star Wars trilogy, they would be III, IV, and V. I think in order of quality, they go V, IV, III, VI, II, I. While I see that you are not seeing ROTS as part of a boycott, and I've seen others that have bashed it as rubbish, I think it's great. If it had come out in 1983, we would be embracing it full on. I've now seen it 5 times (I own a theater) and have loved it each time. There are certain scenes that you still get goosebumps as they appear on the screen. John Williams score works SO wonderfully with this film. There are many moments that you feel like you are watching something out of the Godfather, the way the music takes over and the imagery blows your mind. Does it have it's faults? Sure, but all of them have. While we love the Star Wars films (particularly the OT) EVERY one of them have had their level of cheesy lines and wooden acting. ROTS is no better, and also no worse. People want to blast Portman's acting in the non-spoilerish death scene? How about you take a hard look at the celebration on Yavin when Luke, Han and Leia meet up again after the battle. I mean, really think about how bad the acting is there. It is cringe worthy.

So, while I know you are boycotting it, if you do watch it, go into it with an open mind. Think of it as the first Star Wars film EVER, and just enjoy being sucked into this summer film. I promise you, the final 45 minutes of this film will leave you screaming MORE, MORE LORD LUCAS, when I thought I would be happy to see this come to an end. Lucas somehow found a way out of the two mucky prequels to find a way of having the audience wanting more.

We've had 5 screenings for the general public, and the crowds have eaten it up. They've left buzzing about how much they enjoyed it and how they had to rush home now and watch IV because they are too excited. They've applauded at all the right times, laughed at all the intended jokes and I've actually seen people cry as Anakin does all the wrong things for all the right reasons.

Wheew, that's enough. I know I'm probably alone on this site because most of you ADORE the OT (as you should) and consider the PT bastardizations of the films that should have been untouched. But I beg you to look at this film on it's own, as if it were the first Star Wars and ANH and ESB would have followed as THE trilogy. I hope you will fill as I do, that ROTS leaves you wanting the next chapter, and that's all any film can hope to accomplish.
Post
#106000
Topic
Anyone use Adobe Premiere Pro?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/106000/action/topic#106000
Time
I've just upgraded from Premiere, which I'm pretty good with and I'm having a terrible time watching the video while trying to edit it. I have a Vaio with a 2.80 Ghz Pentium 4 with a NVidia GeForce FX5200 graphics card, so it should be this bad...should it?

Anyone interested, I'm doing a Phantom Menace edit. I was watching it on local tv the other night and I thought to myself, there is a REALLY good film in here, if it was just edited right. So last night, I sat down and watched the first 37 minutes of it and came up with edits that didn't use new dialogue or changed dialogue, just editing. Cutting off scenes quicker to avoid awkward gazes, removing needless dialogue. Also, I found that you can cut alot of silly Jar Jar stuff REAL easy and have him be tolerable. I came up with about 55 edits in the first 37 minutes that I think would make it flow better and give it more of a Star Wars feel. However, Premiere won't co-operate. Any suggestions?