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Gaffer Tape

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2-Jun-2005
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22-Jan-2017
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Post
#1036140
Topic
Rogue One * <em>Spoilers</em> * Thread
Time

TV’s Frink said:

Gaffer Tape said:

Tobar said:

I wouldn’t want to hear the Imperial March before its first appearance in The Empire Strikes Back. Having it hinted at here is the right way to do it.

But why would you watch this movie, or any Star Wars prequel, before The Empire Strikes Back? Logistically speaking, this movie came out 36 years AFTER The Empire Strikes Back, so there’s no way anything in Rogue One happens before it.

I do not understand this post. Since I already lived through the experience of watching these movies in the order they were made, and I understand the story from beginning to end, what’s wrong with watching chronologically?

These movies are not real life, they’re fiction. In this fictional world that has been created, everything that happens in Rogue One happens before Empire, not after.

Exactly. This is fiction. Things aren’t revealed in chronological order like they are in real life. Prequels are designed and written under the assumption that you’ve already seen what comes “after.” Otherwise, there’d be absolutely no reason, for example, to include a scene at the end of Rogue One where Princess Leia receives the Death Star plans. That’s a scene that is written and shot specifically to say, “Hey, this is how this all ties in to what you’ve already seen.”

Music is one of those things that is so out-of-universe that it doesn’t even tie into a potential continuity issue. It’s not as if Vader came on to his bridge in Empire toting a boom box and saying, “Hey, guys. Check out my sick new theme. I just had it composed!” Then its appearance in Rogue One would be jarring. But that’s not the case. The Imperial March has no place in-universe.

It’s why I always rolled my eyes when the prequel trilogy was coming out and people were saying they should have filmed it in such a way as to avoid spoiling Luke’s parentage. Since the whole reason the prequels existed was to show how Anakin Skywalker became Darth Vader, that just seemed to me to be a huge dose of missing the point. And despite Lucas’s cringeworthy assertions that the prequels should be watched first, he is also the guy who put Darth Vader’s breathing into Phantom Menace. He knew what kind of movie he was making even if his stubbornness wouldn’t let him admit it.

As for what’s wrong with watching it that way, I’m certainly not advocating coming into your home and forcing what goes into your Blu-ray player. Watch them however you like. View them with a new perspective. That’s great. However, I would (and do) vehemently argue against intaking any piece of fiction for the first time out of release order, but that certainly doesn’t apply to anybody here. And by extension, neither does any worrying about spoilers in that regard. But I do feel that worrying about a sequel or prequel spoiling something from a previous movie is like watching Return of the Jedi before The Empire Strikes Back and then complaining that all of Empire’s surprises were spoiled for you.

This post has been edited.

Post
#1036127
Topic
Rogue One * <em>Spoilers</em> * Thread
Time

Tobar said:

I wouldn’t want to hear the Imperial March before its first appearance in The Empire Strikes Back. Having it hinted at here is the right way to do it.

But why would you watch this movie, or any Star Wars prequel, before The Empire Strikes Back? Logistically speaking, this movie came out 36 years AFTER The Empire Strikes Back, so there’s no way anything in Rogue One happens before it.

All that nitpicking (admittedly) aside, I do agree with the sentiment. But since Rogue One is a sequel (prequels are sequels too), I don’t necessarily see a problem with using production elements such as music when appropriate. But I do like when they weave those things in narratively. As has been mentioned, Anakin’s theme in Phantom Menace is a variation on the Imperial March, and that makes perfect sense. It’s using the music as a kind of backwards foreshadowing. I’m a little bit more on the fence about its necessity in this case. Anakin’s Theme in TPM makes sense because he’s not Vader, so a gentler, happier version of the same motif makes sense but also ties him to the same musical theme. It helps illustrate the progression of his character. But here he’s full-on Vader. There’s nothing between here and Empire that significantly changes his character. It’s just that John Williams came up with a theme for him in between the first and second films. A hidden Imperial March would suggest that there’s some kind of Vader that’s still covered up and is trying to emerge. But here he’s force choking people and slicing and dicing by the truckload, so there’s really nothing to uncover. So narratively-speaking, there’s no real reason why it would be out of place for him to be accompanied by that theme.

This post has been edited.

Post
#1035302
Topic
&quot;Close the blast doors&quot;
Time

Hi, Frink!

DuracellEnergizer said:

Gaffer is like a phantom ship; you don’t see it (or him) too often, but when it (he) makes an appearance, it’s a momentous occasion.

Well, at least I’m not a Phantom Menace: you don’t see it too often, but when it makes an appearance, you wish you were watching a better movie.

Post
#1035169
Topic
&quot;Close the blast doors&quot;
Time

Darth Id said:

Hardcore Legend said:

Tobar said:

Yeah, I can’t watch the movie without that line in it. It’s my favorite gag in the film.

It, along with the stormtrooper bashing his head off the door only to later have the sound effect added.

Did they really do this?

I remember the first time I noticed that guy smack his helmed forehead, probably on approx. my 75th viewing of the film.
Ever since, I can’t see anything else.
God that actor musta felt like an asshole. It probably really hurt—he hits that shit pretty hard!

Yeah, the sound was added in for the 2004 DVD release to tie in with another gag that ties back into this one. In AotC, they made a callback to this by having Jango Fett bang his head on the door of Slave I. And so now the comedy is that Jango’s clumsy DNA got into the Stormtrooper vats! Har har har!

Post
#940016
Topic
Favorite line from the saga.
Time

“Helloooo, what have we here?”

Whatever Wicket says when the speeder patrol shoots at Leia and him. It’s always sounded to me like, “Eat 'choo mama. Eat 'choo mama yoota.” Now, I don’t know what all of that means, but especially on Mother’s Day, your mama needs some loving…

Post
#934834
Topic
Politics
Time

Warbler said:

moviefreakedmind said:

There are no LGBTQAI+ individuals on the currency.

for all we know, one or more of those on the currency, were in the closet.

Well, by that logic, you could say one of those white males might have been secretly transgender, so we already have a woman on paper currency. Problem solved!

Post
#934006
Topic
Ranking the Batman films
Time

Funnily enough, I had done this on my facebook a couple of months ago, so now I get to post it here! I haven’t seen BvS, though… But at any rate, aside from that, here are all the Batman theatrical releases.

  1. The Dark Knight-Fantastic. Wonderful psychology of the characters. Best Two-Face ever.
  2. Batman Returns-Visually fantastic. My favorite Batsuit. My only complaints are that Gotham Plaza looks very much like a soundstage, and that Bruce starts lecturing about killing when he’s been fine killing people this whole time. Just a little tweak would’ve been all that was needed to make it character development instead of just out-of-character.
  3. Batman Begins-Probably the only live-action Batman film where Batman is the most interesting thing about it.
  4. Batman (1989)-Great noir atmosphere, which would influence the animated series. Michael Keaton is always a fantastic Batman, and I love the idea of keeping his character in the shadows and intimating his psychology rather than spelling it out.
  5. Batman: Mask of the Phantasm-Deserved much more credit than it got. Great tale of Bruce Wayne’s what-if life that never was. And it has Abe Vigoda.
  6. Batman The Movie (1966)-Hard to rank these with the others due it being so different and purposely silly. I love it. And if you asked me another day, I’d probably put it somewhere completely different.
  7. Batman (1943 serial)-My ongoing review has forced me to confront a lot of flaws in it, but I still love it. The atmosphere is great. Lewis Wilson makes a wonderfully sociopathic Batman, and he and Douglas Croft’s Robin have great chemistry. I even love the costumes.
  8. The Dark Knight Rises-Suffers from third part in a trilogy syndrome, where its predecessor set up things this movie could never have pulled off with aplomb. But it still has a lot of heart, and I do enjoy a franchise finally giving Batman some rest.
  9. Batman Forever-Could have been much higher if they hadn’t cut out the key scenes of Batman’s character development. As it stands, I like the relationship between Bruce and Dick. Otherwise, fairly forgettable.
  10. Batman & Robin (1997)-Silly and ridiculous but not unwatchable. For me, it definitely falls into the So Bad It’s Good territory. Had a good idea with the Alfred dying plot. And I actually like George Clooney as Batman.
  11. Batman and Robin (1949 serial)-Dial up all the problems in the previous serial to 11 but counter it with a heavy dose of blandness, and you get this. Also, I hate Vicki Vale.
Post
#933955
Topic
Wish Me Luck, Wish Me Something - Tomorrow Is An Important Date.
Time

Possessed said:

I somewhat know the feeling. I’m going through a heartbreak too and we work together so I have to see her all the time. It really sucks and every day is miserable.

Ooh, I had that happen too a few years ago. But in my case, not only did my ex and I work together, but my ex left me for someone else we worked with. So I got to see the whoooole thing. Fantastic.

Post
#933460
Topic
Politics
Time

It didn’t offend. It just kinda threw me for a second. And I’m not sure where you get the idea that I’m “not upset” that they’re not represented. Well, to be honest, I don’t exactly think about it all that much, but suffice it to say, as I thought I implied above, I’m quite pleased we are, and I have no problem with removing Jackson. It’s just that particular word choice made it sound less like, “We’re honoring the right person,” and more like, “Ooh, we get a politically correct value pack. Score!”

Also: Hi, Warb! Missed you, buddy!

This post has been edited.

Post
#933431
Topic
Politics
Time

Warbler said:

the whole point of changing the currency(other than updates to security against counterfeiting), was to get a woman’s picture on currency. As it stood, all we had were white males.

I assume you’re referring specifically to paper currency, because if the idea was simply currency, well, Susan B. Anthony and Sacagawea did that a long time ago. And, well, obviously even though they’re real people, I won’t count the models who sat in for Lady Liberty in pieces like the Barber line of currency or the Mercury Dime, just to name a few. And isn’t Helen Keller on one of the hundreds of thousands of different quarters we have now?

I don’t really know what the point of any of that was. I have no problem with them replacing Jackson. Honestly, given Jackson’s opposition to a national bank, he probably wouldn’t want to be on currency anyway. And I think we’re in an age where currency hasn’t changed all that much lately. It used to be far more common, so the idea of replacing someone doesn’t strike me as some kind of insult. So when I heard Tubman was being put on it, I just shrugged and went, “Hmm. Okay.” That said, the phrase “two birds with one stone” just kind of made it seem kinda distasteful to me for the first time. Perhaps it’s not really fair, but it really made the whole thing feel like quotas and the like rather than a purer motivation, whatever that means.

This post has been edited.

Post
#933077
Topic
What is wrong with Attack of the Clones?
Time

Yeah, that’s more what I meant. And, yeah, it is highly possible that that might be the case. But my post was more of a cumulative thing. As in, you’d think at least one of these things would have happened. While it’s likely one or more wouldn’t have happened, it’s hard to believe NONE of them would have. Luke wouldn’t have asked, anybody who knows Luke’s father is a Jedi wouldn’t have asked, nobody who knew Luke was training as Jedi wouldn’t have commented on his behavior, AND neither of the people who actually trained him would have mentioned either of those scenarios.

Post
#933037
Topic
If George Had Made The Sequel Trilogy...
Time

I’m not sure if I should be impressed or disappointed that nobody feels compelled to bring up George’s “I totally planned this and didn’t just pull this explanation out of my ass to cover up my mistake” explanation: that, yeah, he totally knows parsec is a measure of distance, but that’s the freaking point! Because it means that Han Solo is really good at navigating and stuff and can compute a shorter route. Even though that really shouldn’t have anything to do with the Falcon at all, right…?

Post
#932340
Topic
What is wrong with Attack of the Clones?
Time

So if this has already been brought up, I apologize, but I haven’t been here in a while. But the idea that the Jedi were supposed to be celibate in the OT is rather difficult to swallow because, um, well, Luke exists. And, yet, the fact that he is the son of a revered Jedi is never given a second’s thought or mention. Now, if I didn’t know much about, say, my mother, only for someone she knew to reveal to me that she was a nun, I’d probably have a few questions about that. I mean, sure, it’s not IMPOSSIBLE for my mother to have been a nun at some point in her life, but it would still probably turn my head a bit and cause me to ask for some details as to how I came into being.

And then, of course, you have Luke himself, whose main motivation is to become a Jedi, and while that motivation (and some last-minute, ham-fisted writing) ultimately trumps any romantic concerns… he totally has the hots for Princess Leia! And once again, no one ever says, “Hey, you know, Luke. Jedi aren’t supposed to be into that.”

And speaking of last-minute, ham-fisted writing, there is also the annoying idea that Force-sensitivity is hereditary. But if we are to accept that, then requiring Jedi to be celibate is an absolutely ridiculous, self-defeating idea. It’s almost like they WANTED to die out!

So while I don’t necessarily have a problem with an order of monastic, celibate warriors, it’s clear that it was a concept invented to give Anakin something to angst over.

Finally… eh, for what it’s worth, I really don’t mind the line about sand. Not really.

Post
#759730
Topic
Gaffer Tape's YouTube Reviews of Awesome Candy-Creating Goodness! (The Facts of Life/Star Trek III Conspiracy!)
Time

Thank you!  Well, I didn't really have to (although my job was intimating it was getting too long).  It had always been more of a temporary experiment, and I never planned to keep it forever, so I just figured it was time for a change.  If I get a chance, I'm sure I'll grow it back at some point.

Also, bikini season is here, and I just wasn't sure I could pull both of them off together.  8-)

Post
#753630
Topic
Twin Peaks - Summer Watching Club (Discussing Pilot/Watching Episodes 1-3)
Time

Well, I'm a little late to this thread, but I'm in the middle of watching Twin Peaks right now, so I'm glad this got revived so I can contribute to it.

Granted, while I say I'm watching it right now... what I really mean is that I was hooked for a while, got a few episodes past the part where the Laura Palmer murder is solved, and then I got bored and lost interest.  Hopefully I'll come back to it soon.  But up until that point, this show was really hooking me like no other.  I've never had a show make me feel so simultaneously amused and ashamed of myself for being amused than the funeral scene where Leland throws himself on the casket.

Also:  "This must be where pies go when they die."  Love that line.

Post
#750107
Topic
FOR THE SINGLE (or widowed or divorced) OTers
Time

Thanks to Frink for linking me to this.  It was a bit surreal to read this as I have no memory of ever having engaged in this discussion.  It was surreal and a bit fascinating.  I certainly remember those plans.  I don't remember ever talking to financial aid about what being married would do to my ability to have college paid for me.

Wow.  What it was like to be young and in love.  ^_^

So, wow.  Pretty much exactly nine years since I posted in this thread.  I'm just shy of 29 now, and that relationship ended when I was just shy of 23.  We were still talking about getting married.  She landed an internship at Disney World.  She left for Florida the day before Obama was inaugurated.  Three weeks later, she stopped returning my calls.  A few days later she did... to break up with me. I later found out she'd met someone she worked with and married him two months later.  They have a kid now.  When the years passed, and we became halfway civil, she sent me a picture.  He looks cute.  The kid, that is, not the guy she left me for.

I was devastated at the time.  It sounds pathetic, but it literally took me years to get over that.  I suffered from extremely severe depression that I now, thankfully, have under control.  It really felt like my life had ended.  But looking back on it now, after nearly six years, it feels like that's when my adult life really began.  I've figured out so much more about myself and become much more comfortable and sure of who I am.  And what's funny about reading the above posts is just how much my priorities and ideologies have changed.  Nowadays, I really wish I had spent my time in college actually living it.  I wish I had focused more on those opportunities, cultivating those friendships, improving myself.  Instead, I focused on a long-distance relationship that ultimately crashed and burned.  Don't get me wrong.  I have very fond memories from that relationship... memories that I am finally able to look back on fondly rather than with pain.  And while I've dated and been in relationships since then, I admit that I've never again loved as deeply and as freely as I did then.  But I've recently started dating someone new, so who knows?  Maybe that won't always be the case.

So to answer the question:  No, we didn't get married.  Well, she did... just not to me.  ;-)

EDIT:  Haha, looking through this thread, my fate seems rather similar to Invader Jenny's:

Invader Jenny said:

I really, really want to get married, but Mr. Right just hasn't shown up yet. I thought that the last man I dated and was in love with was really going to be the one, but he decided he was going to leave me and marry someone else...and not tell me.

This post has been edited.

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