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DrDre

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Join date
16-Mar-2015
Last activity
10-Dec-2017
Posts
2786

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Post
#1134608
Topic
Color matching and prediction: color correction tool v1.3 released!
Time

Here’s another example for one of the most difficult color matching challenges, which is impossible to do with the more traditional color matching algorithm:

This shot originally featured a red sky, like on this frame from Mike Verta’s ColorRef videos:

Here’s the color matching result:

Post
#1134496
Topic
Color matching and prediction: color correction tool v1.3 released!
Time

As I’ve shown in poita’s 1997 SE thread, I’m working on a new color matching algorithm, based on the machine learning methodology used for the color grading bot, as such henceforth it shall be known as…the color matching bot.

Despite still being a work in progress, here’s an example, matching the Star Wars bluray to poita’s 1997 SE scan (corrected by NeverarGreat).

Bluray:

1997 SE scan:

Bluray matched to the 1997 SE scan:

http://www.framecompare.com/image-compare/screenshotcomparison/WLWNNN8X

This post has been edited.

Post
#1134491
Topic
1997 Star Wars Special Edition 35mm Project
Time

Here’s another version (I’m sort of experimenting with the parameters 😉):

http://www.framecompare.com/image-compare/screenshotcomparison/WLWNNN8X

In a nutshell, after cropping both the test and reference frames to match content, a weighted regression model is created for each RGB combination in the frame (or another color space), that gives similar colors higher weights than less similar colors.

This post has been edited.

Post
#1134487
Topic
kk650's Regraded Raiders of the Lost Ark (blanket yellow tint removed from blu-ray)
Time

Synnöve said:

Also worth considering that the limited bit-rate of the HDTV capture will result in loss of detail to a further extent than the Blu (especially if some of those bits have to go to representing the grain).

That would certainly have been the case, if the DNR on the bluray had not been so heavy. The example I posted earlier makes this very clear:

WOWOW matched to DVD:

Bluray matched to DVD:

The amount of detail lost in the water is quite stunning.

Post
#1134483
Topic
kk650's Regraded Raiders of the Lost Ark (blanket yellow tint removed from blu-ray)
Time

Synnöve said:

Out of curiosity, are any of you using monitors calibrated via 3DLUT in a light controlled room? If so, what are you monitoring your video feeds with and how do you know what you’re looking at is accurate?

Also, with regards to the Blu vs the HDTV cap: from what I can see on caps-a-holic, it doesn’t seem that the Blu-Ray capture is generally lacking in detail (barring some shots) insomuch as it simply has had the grain removed and the contrast lessened (contrast effects perceived “detail”). Additionally, the HDTV capture’s grain is larger and has horrid compression artifacts. I’d wager that, if the blu was re-grained and regraded properly, it’d look better than the HDTV capture or print-scan.

Well, working in the field of image processing I can tell you, that you cannot remove grain without also removing detail. That sadly is a mathematical certainty. So, regraining is not going to bring back detail that was lost. The bluray is less compressed for sure, but overall the grain free look will result in a softer look to a film, that originally was quite grainy.

Post
#1134479
Topic
kk650's Regraded Raiders of the Lost Ark (blanket yellow tint removed from blu-ray)
Time

kk650 said:

I don’t know, I’ve got both and the 4k remastered blu-ray in motion looks much more filmlike to my eyes than the WOWOW release.

Well, that’s personal preference of course, as I feel the WOWOW looks more film like, since it has more negative grain, and I feel the bluray has that plastic look consistent with heavy DNR.

Sure, there might be some places where the 4k remastered blu-ray is softer than the WOWOW release but I’m sure there are places where the WOWOW release is softer than the 4k remastered blu-ray. In terms of how the two transfers feel when you’re watching them in motion, its night and day, the 4k remastered blu-ray feels like film while the WOWOW feels digital.

Having compared a large number of frames for both releases, I haven’t come across a shot where the WOWOW is softer, yet. Here’s another example, where I matched both the WOWOW and the bluray to the DVD.

WOWOW matched to DVD:

Bluray matched to DVD:

However, like you said, it’s a matter of preference.

This post has been edited.

Post
#1134398
Topic
1997 Star Wars Special Edition 35mm Project
Time

NeverarGreat said:

That fighter take-off shot actually looks really natural on the print, despite the low contrast!

For comparison, here’s the blu-ray (and then some of my own adjustments):
http://www.framecompare.com/image-compare/screenshotcomparison/WL7NNN8X

This seems like a right time to introduce my new color matching algorithm. It’s based on the machine learning methodology used for the color grading bot, as such henceforth it shall be known as…the color matching bot.

Bluray:

Poita scan (corrected by NeverarGreat):

Bluray matched by NeverarGreat:

Bluray matched to scan with color matching bot:

This post has been edited.

Post
#1133300
Topic
StarWarsLegacy.com - The Official Thread
Time

The end of an era, the Star Wars Legacy forum is down. I know some will be hopeful, that this means something is brewing, but personally I think mverta has left the building, and Star Wars Legacy Edition will disappear into obscurity, without Mike promoting it. It’s a shame Mike didn’t say goodbye. I know, he could never release it, but a lot of us were still invested in the project, and he at one point stated, there would be screenshots and such. Well, I suppose we can hope for a miracle, but at least for now this is the end of the line.

This post has been edited.

Post
#1131149
Topic
kk650's Regraded Raiders of the Lost Ark (blanket yellow tint removed from blu-ray)
Time

kk650 said:

RayRogers said:
To me, the DrDre version more closely recreates the cinematic feeling and the kk650 is more adjusted including the extremely unneeded DNR. I really hate DNR and heavily prefer film grain all the time.

No DNR was added to my release. The main source of my regrade was the 4k remastered blu-ray of Raiders of the Lost Ark, the highest quality official release out there. The WOWOW hd transport stream doesn’t really compare IMHO, the 4k release looks like film while the WOWOW release looks very artificial/digital. The situation is very similar to The Good, the Bad and the Ugly Mondo 4k remastered release that looks far more filmic and beautiful to me compared to the very digital looking Mondo release.

I don’t agree, that this is actually the case. The WOWOW suffers from more digital artifacts due to the compression of the HDTV stream, but is actually based on a 4K master created by the same company who did Temple of Doom and Last Crusade, all of which were done in 2011 for the 30th anniversary of ROTLA. The main difference between those two masters (aside from color, and some digital changes) is, that the official bluray release has much heavier DNR, compared to the WOWOW. A frame by frame comparison shows very clearly that a lot of detail has been scrubbed away.

I once matched both the bluray and the WOWOW to the 2003 DVD, and the difference is quite obvious:

WOWOW:

Bluray:

DVD:

WOWOW matched to DVD:

Bluray matched to DVD:

You just have to look at Indy’s clothes, the water, and the smoke to see, that a lot of detail is missing, and heavy DNR was applied to the bluray. Even the DVD has more detail in the water, and there are many shots that are worse. Now, obviously some will prefer the heavy DNR, or are bothered by the compression artifacts in the WOWOW, but I do not agree that it is more film like, as the 35mm scan in many instances actually has more detail than either the WOWOW or the bluray, since even the WOWOW has loss of detail due to DNR.

This post has been edited.

Post
#1129614
Topic
1997 Star Wars Special Edition 35mm Project
Time

NeverarGreat said:

Here’s what that frame from my project looks like:
Recreation
And here’s the SE scan corrected and luminosity matched to the Blu-ray:
SE correction
http://www.framecompare.com/image-compare/screenshotcomparison/FCJNNN8U

You can see in the Blu-ray, there’s a gross blue cast across the chair and all of the highlights, whereas the scan actually has very good color.

The bluecast can actually be quite easily be removed (and skin tones matched):

http://www.framecompare.com/image-compare/screenshotcomparison/KZ7NNN8X

This post has been edited.

Post
#1128457
Topic
1997 Star Wars Special Edition 35mm Project
Time

poita said:

When scanning, you have so many things to take into consideration, one of them is whether to scan into a log or linear based file.

Attached is the same file as a linear TIFF and a log DPX.

If you are using a log based system such as Nucoda, you will probably get better results with the DPX file, if you are using something less high end, you might get better results with the TIFF.

I’ll be interested to see how people go with this.
https://we.tl/xO0SCcQyuM

Post
#1127684
Topic
1997 Star Wars Special Edition 35mm Project
Time

I actually have a question on this subject. How much of the shifts in the color balance may be caused by the printing process? Or are all of the color shifts allways part of the grade?

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