DrCrowTStarwarsreborn

The Aluminum Falcon said:

I Want to Believe this mini-series will be good, but, damn, that last movie was pretty awful. Still, all the trailers look great.

I also got the BD set, and it looks fantastic! To be honest, the occasional use of edge enhancement and the new fonts bother me more than the cropping. But, man oh man, X-Files looks so much better than it ever did. I couldn’t recommend it more, even if just to see the cinematography that pushed the boundaries for darkness on TV…

Would recommend picking up the seasons individually or, if you want the whole series box set, going for a foreign version: German or France, which, though cheap, contains identical discs.

Yeah I couldn’t get to the end of the last movie. Still what trailers we have make this look good and I think the X Files always worked better on TV then it did as movies. I mean it’s roots are in TV, with shows like The Twilight Zone and Dragnet, so it feels the most at home on TV.

I really hope there is some kind of recap so I am not completely lost.

I watched the final back when it aired but I can’t remember a thing about it. 😃

Oh yeah if the copping doesn’t bug you then this is the set to get and I intend to pick them up as I get money, they are much cheaper then the old sets and they look and sound amazing, also they finally have Play all button and that is a big deal for me with TV shows, I hate having to select each episode one at a time when I am trying to watch the show while working.

These sets are good and the price is just right for a double dip, $20 for each 24 episode season, that is less then a dollar an episode, that works for me.

Okay, thanks. That isn’t too far away. I was afraid they would try to hold it back a few years until just before the next movie comes out, but that is fine.

Thanks for the info.

Those will be interesting to see but given that the movie is already two and a half hours long I can see why they were cut.

Speaking of the Bluray has Disney given any indication of when it will be released? I ask because my mom really wants to see this film but she is so scared by Issis and all the threats that they keep making that she refuses to leave the house these days except when she has to in order to go to work and she has my younger siblings so scared that they didn’t want to see this in theaters either so the home video release is something they are all waiting for and given that Wal mart is already taking preorders it would be nice to know when this is coming out.

LuckyGungan2001 said:

Should I see the Directors Cut of T2? Does it improve on the film in any way? I’ve heard that Biehn came back for Kyle Reese but was cut, and then added back in the Directors Cut.

That must have been the version that was released on VHS at some point, because the only version I have ever seen has Reese in it.

No kidding, until this moment I didn’t know he had been cut from any other cut. Thanks for telling me.

DuracellEnergizer said:

I’m looking forward to it, but I’m not super-excited. I just hope all the loose ends get tied up and Mulder & Scully finally get to live happily ever after.

Me too. I remember watching the last few season as they aired(We had just gotten a fox station for the first time in my area)but to be honest I have no memory of how the series ended, I mean at all so I am expecting to be lost.

Is that strange, the fact that I can so clearly remember watching the series final but I can’t remember one thing that happened in it?

Still I wouldn’t expect all the question to be answered since Carter has said he is ready to make more of these if Fox asks, so they can’t close the book on everything with these six episode. Also Fox did cut the original eight episode order down to six, so that may play a role too.

Despite all this I don’t have cable so this is the TV event I am most looking forward to this year.

Oh and with some christmas money I got the X Files season one on Blu ray and if you can put up with the fact that it was cropped to 16x9(and that is a big if)everything else about this set, from the picture, to the sound, to the fact that there is finally a play all option is a huge improvement over the DvD sets. Too bad they didn’t keep the original aspect ratio. Still for $20, they are a good back up set and given that the X-Files is one of those shows that always looked more like a film then most real films the 16x9 crop doesn’t look as bad or out of place as it could.

I am working my way back through the series now and am really looking forward to this mini series and hope it doesn’t end on a cliffhanger.

Don’t have time to go into the reasons for my ratings right now but I will latter, here is how I rank the Terminator films.

The Terminator 9.0/10
Terminator:Genisys 7.0/10
Terminator 3 5.5/10
Terminator 2(This movie was really let down by the fact that it had kid who was the Jar Jar Binks of this franchise, it was way too preachy, way way way too long for such a simple story, and then it ripped off all the worst Data scenes from Star Trek TNG. It was a mess and I think this was Cammeron’s first bad film and sadly I don’t think he has made a good one since.)4.0/10
Terminator: Salvation 2.5/10.

oojason said:

DrCrowTStarwarsreborn - I won’t tell you how you should feel, patronise you, say or something along the lines of ‘it’ll all be alright in the end’, but please remember this - I for one enjoyed your original post here and then arguing and articulating our viewpoints with others - albeit we had to repeat ourselves a few times…

Plus, Frink posts on here ‘frequently’ enough to know more than most he’ll be in misunderstandings in these threads!

Hope you feel better, and see you post again when ready, soon.

Thanks, that’s a big help.

I’ll be fine in the end, I am just having some bad days lately but it will get better, it always does.

John Doom said:

He says the Force is strong with this one after he has had trouble hitting anything besides a droid and while the image on screen is of Luke’s fight jerking around in such a way that he can’t lock on to him and Luke lasts much longer then any of the other pilots who were trained for combat do against Vader and he hits a target not even the computer can lock on to. The only reason he is there for Han to save is because he out flies a pilot who has been flying since before he was born and has been using the force much longer then he has. In the context of the movie it makes no more sense then Rey defeating Ren in the latest movie, and yet the people who attack Rey for being a Marry Sue are fine with Luke.

I don’t agree with your interpretation of this scene, but it’s fine. I don’t want to waste your time repeating myself about why I disagree on your points here.

What is more Rey is now attacked for not needing be saved by a man and not acting like a Disney princess and that is bold faced sexism.

Rest assured I’ve nothing sexist against her character, I have absolutely no problem with her gender and the fact she’s not a “damsel in distress”.

Maybe you should just consider the possibility that with some many people liking this character, it isn’t the character who is badly written, it’s just that these new films don’t appeal to you so you have zeroed in on the character as the reason. There is nothing wrong with just having personal tastes that something well written doesn’t appeal to. For instance I have never been able to get into Breaking Bad, Mad Men, or Game of Thrones. Those three shows are pretty much universally praised as some of the best written and acted shows of all time, but they just don’t appeal to me so I don’t watch them but I don’t try to tell people who do watch them that they are badly written, because it is clear a lot of people have found that to not be the case and it is more likely they just don’t appeal to my personal taste, so why would I spend time arguing over something I am never going to enjoy.
I would advise you to cut your losses with the new series and just go back to watching what you like and stop trying to convince people to hate something they enjoy. The new movies aren’t for you, that is fine, you don’t have to keep going out of your way to defend that simple fact just like I don’t have to go out of my way to defend my taste in movies. After all it’s just a film, we should really just relax.

Well, I do like Star Wars’ space opera’s genre, so I don’t think TFA just doesn’t appeal to me. When I went to the theater, I watched the movie both prising and opposing each of its features objectively, the same I do for all movies I watch, including the previous 6 Star Wars movies, and that’s not true that I completely disliked this movie (I don’t understand what made you think so).
In any case, I’m not trying to force anyone to agree with me at all on Rey. I just shared my opinions on this thread’s subject and we discussed together about what could be considered fact, what subjective, sharing each other’s point of view. I think that’s what threads are made for, after all, right? 😄
And I think we had a good time together, so thank you for making this thread.

Thanks, i think I needed that today.

Sorry the last few days have been some of my bad days, thanks for posting in the this thread.

moviefreakedmind said:

DrCrowTStarwarsreborn said:

moviefreakedmind said:

Either this: “…in his youth Greedo lived on Tatooine in Mos Espa alongside fellow Rodian Wald and Anakin Skywalker. When young Skywalker won the Boonta Eve Classic, Greedo accused him of cheating, and the two boys scuffled. Their fight was broken up by Qui-Gon Jinn, and Wald warned Greedo that if he continued his violent ways, he would meet a ‘bad end’.”

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Greedo

Or this: “in fact, she even danced the Dance of the Seventy Violet Veils at the wedding of Han Solo and Leia Organa where she would be spotted by a designer and became the model for his jeweled brassieres. After that Doallyn managed her career as a model. She had two daughters, named Luka and Leia after Luke Skywalker and Leia Organa”

This one is referring to the “Fat Dancer” from Jabba’s Palace. Apparently I’ve been wrong in assuming the past 20 years that she was just some lady who danced at Jabba’s Palace. She’s actually best friends with Han, Luke, and Leia!

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Yarna_d’al’_Gargan

What the heck?

Is the Star Wars universe smaller then my backyard and populated by less then a dozen people? Why do the same few people turn up in everything and knowing everyone? What kind of sense does that make?

I hate to say this about anything related to the first two seasons of TNG but I have to, they got it right. In the early first season Riker and others just barely remember who Kirk is because he was just some guy from history class when they were kids and the only two races from TOS that show up are Klingon and very briefly the Romulans. That is how you make a fictional universe feel big and epic and like there are more then two stories to tell. You don’t have the same races turning up all the time and you have people not know each other because the universe is a big place and they have never met.

Good night that was insane. This is why I could never get into the novels, they always seemed to just be retreading old ideas and characters instead of making new ones. I tried but as a kid I could never make it to the end of a Star Wars EU novel and I was Wodehouse and Shakespeare at the time so it wasn’t that they were too long or hard for me to read, they just seemed stupid and pointless.

That’s a good comparison; the closest tie-in during early TNG was Bones showing up in the pilot episode. I think that the dancer’s story (whose name is of course something along the lines of “Yarnu Glooptu-Goon”) was best friends with Luke. You see in the background of Jedi she is laughing hysterically at the green dancer being eaten by the Rancor. I assumed she died, along with all the muppets, when the barge was destroyed, but she’s actually just best friends with the Skywalkers and Solos.

Yeah, and even that was just a cute cameo of one character for the older fans and it was cut for time in reruns so it wasn’t like they were saying everyone happened to know everyone else.

Of course then they went the AU route with Voyager and TNG movies. The Voyager episode with the Tuvok flash back where it turns out he just happened to serve under Captain Sulu back in the day has to be an all time low point for this sort of thing.

One of the things I liked about episode 7 was that Jakku wasn’t Tatoonie so Rey didn’t happen to know a bunch of characters from the OT, that helped undo a lot of the damage done to the Star Wars universe by the PT and the EU and made it feel big again.

John Doom said:

DrCrowTStarwarsreborn said:

Oh and I never said Ren just lost power for no reason, go reread what I said as I am sick of typing out the same thing one billion times in a row, so I will say it just once more.

And I never said he lost his power for no reason, I know you meant he was getting tired. I was just pointing out that Ren’s defeat can be seen from different point of views.

Also again if you have problem with this, Vader comes out and credits Luke’s use of the force with making it hard for him to lock onto and destroy Luke’s fighter in the first movie and Vader is a much more experienced combat pilot(Someone being a good pilot with civilian air craft does not make them a great combat pilot. That is why we can’t just take 747 pilots and put then in fighter aircraft without any training.)and has used the force a lot longer and he used it to kill Jedi back in the day, so why don’t you have a problem with the first movie?
If you just go by the movie with out any of the sequels, prequels, or behind the scenes info Luke being to out fly Vader and not get instantly killed like everyone else makes no sense by the same logic that you apply to the Ren/Rey fight.

Actually, Vader just says that the Force is strong with Luke, not that his power is making it hard for him to lock onto Luke’s fighter. The only reason he can’t kill him in the end, is because Han saves him at the last time and they weren’t able to actually defeat Vader either, so what’s the deal with it?
Nevermind Rey’s ridiculous ability to use the Force like a fully trained Jedi, her sudden abilty to defeat Ren makes less if no sense, unless it was just Ren being too tired to fight, as you said. I don’t think that’s the case, as it’s pretty obvious they were going for the “letting the Force in” (which, as I said, wasn’t explained nor questioned), but anyway, I agree to disagree.

He says the Force is strong with this one after he has had trouble hitting anything besides a droid and while the image on screen is of Luke’s fight jerking around in such a way that he can’t lock on to him and Luke lasts much longer then any of the other pilots who were trained for combat do against Vader and he hits a target not even the computer can lock on to. The only reason he is there for Han to save is because he out flies a pilot who has been flying since before he was born and has been using the force much longer then he has. In the context of the movie it makes no more sense then Rey defeating Ren in the latest movie, and yet the people who attack Rey for being a Marry Sue are fine with Luke.

What is more Rey is now attacked for not needing be saved by a man and not acting like a Disney princess and that is bold faced sexism since I don’t remember Han being attack for not needing a woman to save him or not wanting more and what is more the charge isn’t even true. Rey escaped on her own but she couldn’t get off of the planet on her own and what is more she did want more and she ran away from helping people who were in danger so she could go after the family that she knew wasn’t coming back.

So yeah I am done. The charge isn’t true and even if it was it is blatantly sexist in nature and I am not one of those people who looks for sexism in things. I normally don’t care and I will defend productions from the 30s and 40s at times against that charge but in this case it just seems odd that such a good character that so many people have connected with is being attacked for reasons of gender in the year 2016. I mean I went in expecting to hate her because I was expecting her to be one of those bratty marry sue characters that really grates on my nerves, but that wasn’t what she was and by the twenty or so minute mark of this film I remember that I stopped caring if any of the old characters were going to turn up, because I was so interested in her story. In fact I remember being a little sad when Han and Chewie turned up because I knew they were going to take some of the focus off of her and Finn.

Maybe you should just consider the possibility that with some many people liking this character, it isn’t the character who is badly written, it’s just that these new films don’t appeal to you so you have zeroed in on the character as the reason. There is nothing wrong with just having personal tastes that something well written doesn’t appeal to. For instance I have never been able to get into Breaking Bad, Mad Men, or Game of Thrones. Those three shows are pretty much universally praised as some of the best written and acted shows of all time, but they just don’t appeal to me so I don’t watch them but I don’t try to tell people who do watch them that they are badly written, because it is clear a lot of people have found that to not be the case and it is more likely they just don’t appeal to my personal taste, so why would I spend time arguing over something I am never going to enjoy.

I would advise you to cut your losses with the new series and just go back to watching what you like and stop trying to convince people to hate something they enjoy. The new movies aren’t for you, that is fine, you don’t have to keep going out of your way to defend that simple fact just like I don’t have to go out of my way to defend my taste in movies. After all it’s just a film, we should really just relax.

So yeah I am done defending this movie, it is clear the people who hate Rey and this movie are not going to have their minds changed any more then the people who love her and this movie are going to have their’s changed. So I am done for good now.

See ya.

moviefreakedmind said:

Either this: “…in his youth Greedo lived on Tatooine in Mos Espa alongside fellow Rodian Wald and Anakin Skywalker. When young Skywalker won the Boonta Eve Classic, Greedo accused him of cheating, and the two boys scuffled. Their fight was broken up by Qui-Gon Jinn, and Wald warned Greedo that if he continued his violent ways, he would meet a ‘bad end’.”

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Greedo

Or this: “in fact, she even danced the Dance of the Seventy Violet Veils at the wedding of Han Solo and Leia Organa where she would be spotted by a designer and became the model for his jeweled brassieres. After that Doallyn managed her career as a model. She had two daughters, named Luka and Leia after Luke Skywalker and Leia Organa”

This one is referring to the “Fat Dancer” from Jabba’s Palace. Apparently I’ve been wrong in assuming the past 20 years that she was just some lady who danced at Jabba’s Palace. She’s actually best friends with Han, Luke, and Leia!

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Yarna_d’al’_Gargan

What the heck?

Is the Star Wars universe smaller then my backyard and populated by less then a dozen people? Why do the same few people turn up in everything and knowing everyone? What kind of sense does that make?

I hate to say this about anything related to the first two seasons of TNG but I have to, they got it right. In the early first season Riker and others just barely remember who Kirk is because he was just some guy from history class when they were kids and the only two races from TOS that show up are Klingon and very briefly the Romulans. That is how you make a fictional universe feel big and epic and like there are more then two stories to tell. You don’t have the same races turning up all the time and you have people not know each other because the universe is a big place and they have never met.

Good night that was insane. This is why I could never get into the novels, they always seemed to just be retreading old ideas and characters instead of making new ones. I tried but as a kid I could never make it to the end of a Star Wars EU novel and I was Wodehouse and Shakespeare at the time so it wasn’t that they were too long or hard for me to read, they just seemed stupid and pointless.

oojason said:

DrCrowTStarwarsreborn said:

Well I wasn’t thinking of the prequels but that is a good point. I was basing it just on how much she looked like Luke when he was bashing away at Vader in Return of the Jedi, and after that he had to throw his lightsaber away to keep from turning to the dark side so it seems to me that striking in anger for any reason leads to the dark side in the Star Wars universe.

^ Same here - though I’ve bored even myself (and mates) silly with my belief/theory that Rey is Luke’s daughter so I’m trying not to read too much into more similarities that others have come across that may enforce this! lol. Having said that I’ve done it again in that Rey displaying a similar fighting style to Anakin could contribute just that little bit more to her being a Skywalker (whether intentional on the actress/filmmakers part - or a coincidence - or my strawclutching). Let alone similar to Luke… I need some sleep.

The rest of your post was for JD, yes?

Yes, I have no idea how to quote two different posts in the same post. I am sure I will figure it out, but right now I have been up for over 48 hour straight due to my rash acting up to the point of pain and I am too tired to figure out anything new or continue arguing.

Yeah I agree with you. Sorry for the confusion.

That_OT_Ruler said:

joefavs said:

Couldn’t it be that -GASP- the character is supposed to be more powerful than Luke? Everyone’s treating this like they failed to portray a character on roughly ANH-era Luke’s level believably, but since when is that the cap on Force aptitude in this universe? Maybe Rey just does better than Luke because she is better than Luke.

The problem is it makes her unrelatable. I didn’t connect with her character at all. She was too perfect, didn’t have any flaws, didn’t dream of wanting more, or something that could maybe connect us to her personality. She was just… weird.

Also, she is totally a Mary Sue. Someone who defeats everyone in her way, never has to be rescued, doesn’t appear to have any flaws, and so on.

So in your words the only good character in the history of fiction in Bell from the Disney version of Beauty and the Beast and every character has to be a carbon copy of her or they are a Mary Sue.

Well in that case why don’t you just only watch Beauty and the Beast and stop trying to change Star Wars into something it is not?

Oh and she makes mistakes all the time and she wants her lost family, if that isn’t wanting more I don’t know what is.

oojason said:

DrCrowTStarwarsreborn said:

Yeah same here, sorry to say I am done for now.

Oh and I say she was using the dark side or at least in danger of falling to the dark side because in the OT when Luke struck at Vader in anger it pleased Palpatine because it put him well on the path to the dark side and Yoda ever said “A Jedi uses the force for Knowledge and defense, never attack” and Rey was clearly mad and attacking, at least as mad as Luke was in Jedi and since this movie does share a writer with Empire and Jedi I assume it is playing by the same rules that were put forward in those movies. I admit I could be wrong about this but a few people I have talked to came to the same conclusion I did without my telling them my idea after they saw the movie for the first time, so I am sticking with this idea until I am told it is wrong by another movie. That is all.

^ yes mate, the bit in the fight with Ren after she let the Force in when backed up on the cliff and she goes on the attack… after she hits him low down and then with a thrust to his shoulder - there is a grimace on her face and style/stance which reminded me of Anakin’s fighting style in ROTS (very confident, attacking style - and to a point, similar to Darth Maul’s) - she has the sabre behind her back ready for a chopping motion… and then they go onto clash and she kicks him to the floor.

Of course I’d have to go watch the Prequels again to verify it (my dodgy old memory - I could well be wrong) - and I really don’t want to have to watch those Prequels again 😉

Well I wasn’t thinking of the prequels but that is a good point. I was basing it just on how much she looked like Luke when he was bashing away at Vader in Return of the Jedi, and after that he had to throw his lightsaber away to keep from turning to the dark side so it seems to me that striking in anger for any reason leads to the dark side in the Star Wars universe.

Oh and I never said Ren just lost power for no reason, go reread what I said as I am sick of typing out the same thing one billion times in a row, so I will say it just once more.

The human body is not a magic machine, there are certain condition where the body just can’t go on any more. Fighting with any kind of sword is very intense and attacking wears you out a lot fast then being on the defense. I said he seemed to be getting tired, not that he lost all powers, look no matter how good you are, if you push your body too far you are going to start making mistakes and your body is going to start giving out. I say this as someone who has down lots of heavy work out doors and has even done some out doors in the middle of a blizzard. The fact is that after only a few minutes outside and doing heavy work, if it is as cold as it looked in that scene you are going to need to take a breather and try to warm yourself up because the blood doesn’t want to flow to your limbs, it wants to stay out your core and keep your vital organs warm. Now Ren is wounded as well so that plays a factor. So this is where Rey being on the defense helps her out, she is using less energy and thus isn’t quite as tired as Ren by that point in the fight, he also thinks she is going to join him, so his guard is not up the way it should be. So he is getting tired and his body just wants him to sit down and get warm. Now Rey isn’t as tired, notice I didn’t say anywhere in here that she isn’t getting tired as well and I didn’t say Ren lost all his powers. I will spell it out in small all caps words.

REN WAS GETTING TIRED AND CAUGHT OFF GUARD FOR ALL OF ABOUT TEN TO FIFTEEN SECONDS BUT THAT WAS LONG ENOUGH FOR REY TO LAND TWO BLOWS.

If you don’t think it is every possible for someone to land a couple of lucky blows on an adversary in a fight who is more experienced then they are then I can’t help you. I do have to wonder though how you explain the times heavy weight champs lose fights in boxing or other combat based sports.

Also again if you have problem with this, Vader comes out and credits Luke’s use of the force with making it hard for him to lock onto and destroy Luke’s fighter in the first movie and Vader is a much more experienced combat pilot(Someone being a good pilot with civilian air craft does not make them a great combat pilot. That is why we can’t just take 747 pilots and put then in fighter aircraft without any training.)and has used the force a lot longer and he used it to kill Jedi back in the day, so why don’t you have a problem with the first movie?

If you just go by the movie with out any of the sequels, prequels, or behind the scenes info Luke being to out fly Vader and not get instantly killed like everyone else makes no sense by the same logic that you apply to the Ren/Rey fight.

Well any way I didn’t mean to get dragged back into this and this is the last time for real because everything I say is being completely ignored so I am sick of typing out the same basic facts about how the human body works over and over again so I am done.

oojason said:

With respect JD, I think you’re pausing to talk and shift what you say you mean around, not pausing to take in and listen, and your arguments are circular. For example…

your new reply 1 - ‘only referring to the fact she was able to fly the Falcon good enough to not get destroyed by the Tie-Fighters’… and then ‘not a real issue’. Which is it? Why didn’t you say that in the first place instead?

your new reply 2 - your ‘almost fully trained Jedi’… holding a lighsabre and still it’s a small knowledge of the Force (of all the force powers and abilities out there…)

your new reply 3 - ‘sometimes she doesn’t seem a true character fully enstablished’ - I fully disagree, she as a character developed over the film to her given situation and environment as stated before.

your new reply 4 - it contradicts your own claims in your new reply 2. Which is it - ‘she barely knows what it is’ or ‘almost full trained jedi’?

your new reply 5 - he’s now ‘drawing power from the Darkside’ because another user on here said so? Again, that’s quite a reach.

your new reply 6 - ‘Which, again, is something she does but never explained how or even hinted’ - erm… Maz hints at it where she says that Luke’s sabre is calling to her… and Maz tells her about the Force - “it moves through and around every living thing”, “close your eyes… feel it… the Light. It’s always been there - it will guide you.” - after the Force Visions where she touches Luke’s lightsabre. As I stated before the Force guided Rey when she let it in after she was her getting beat by Rey (you know, the bit where she closed her eyes and let the Force in?)

I’ve done you the courtesy of answering your statements and questions - but as I stated above, your posts shift in what you mean, your arguments are circular - and you don’t seem to have taken in what others have said - so I hope you understand why I won’t be replying to you again on this. Thank you.

Yeah same here, sorry to say I am done for now.

Oh and I say she was using the dark side or at least in danger of falling to the dark side because in the OT when Luke struck at Vader in anger it pleased Palpatine because it put him well on the path to the dark side and Yoda ever said “A Jedi uses the force for Knowledge and defense, never attack” and Rey was clearly mad and attacking, at least as mad as Luke was in Jedi and since this movie does share a writer with Empire and Jedi I assume it is playing by the same rules that were put forward in those movies. I admit I could be wrong about this but a few people I have talked to came to the same conclusion I did without my telling them my idea after they saw the movie for the first time, so I am sticking with this idea until I am told it is wrong by another movie. That is all.

John Doom said:

Another wall of text coming… sigh, I guess we should all try to be more concise.

oojason said:

your first reply - you ignored the crashing the Falcon bit, she didn’t outdo 2/3 Ties - Finn shot 2 down, yes? A bit of teamwork wouldn’t you say.

Well, I was only referring to the fact she was able to fly the Falcon good enough to not get destroyed by the Tie-Fighters, but anyway, it’s just part of the list of things she is able to do in the movie, not a real issue.

your second reply - holding a lightsabre and having a small knowledge of using the Force does not make her an ‘almost fully trained Jedi’.

Small knowledge? Luke, right after its brief training in TESB, doesn’t do mind tricks and can barely pull or throw stuff.

your third reply - ‘just that some of her skills are unexplained, so it feels like she always knows exactly what is needed when is needed’ - makes little sense.

That sometimes she doesn’t seem a true character fully enstablished, but more like a deus-ex-machina.

your fourth reply - ‘sudden knowledge of the Force’ - we’ve established she has knowledge of The Force beforehand - but not how to use it before the interrogation scene with Ren. During the interrogation she gains that knowledge from Ren himself, no?

And how can she gain such knowledge without using the Force? And yet she barely knows what it is, nevermind how to use it.

your fifth reply - you’re reaching a lot there in claiming being shot by a powerful bowcaster made him more powerful?

Not the would itself, but that hurting it could enrage him, drawing power from the dark side. That’s something which was suggested by another user (I don’t remeber who) and may actually be the only reason he uses this “emo practice” 😄

and Rey still only had the upper hand when she let the Force in.

Which, again, is something she does but never explained how or even hinted.

DrCrowTStarwarsreborn said:

Yeah she still had to get a feel for using the lightsaber so she wouldn’t be winning the fight from the start but again if you know the first thing about swords then you know that going on the offense with one takes a lot more energy then being on the defense. In other words the whole time Ren is fighting ray he is wounded and he is not trying to kill her, but he is using more energy then she is when he is wounded so when she gets a feel for the weapon and she gets mad he is in trouble. Really he lost control for less then thirty seconds and that cost him the fight, even the best sword fighters can have this happen to them. Also again what proof do we see in the film that Ren is really good with a lightsaber, do we see him defeat anyone who is trained with a lightsaber in the movie, if the movie is supposed to stand on it’s own then what proof are we given that he knows what he is doing with a lightsaber. All we know is that he killed some other Jedi, but we are never told it is in a lightsaber fight.

You’re saying that he can fight with no problem for like 2 minutes and suddenly (and I repeat, suddenly) is powerless? Because he has no problem fighting Rey until she says “Wow, the Force” “letting the Force in”, and he’s suddenly defeated. Does it make sense to you? Am I just nitpicking?
Ren does knock down Finn and corners Rey, so he’s at least more skilled than them, which means the problem remains.

Oh and as for Rey knowing about the gas and how the controls work, if she had to interact with those systems at all while doing the installs for that big guy on the planet then she would need to know how those systems worked. Now she may not remember every detail every second of her life because it was not the center of her existence but have you ever tried to make repairs or upgrades to a car or a computer without knowing the basics of how the systems work? It can’t be done because you will end up wrecking the thing.

This could be an explaination, but was never officially stated, if right. It wouldn’t have hurted, I guess 😄

Oh and here are just a few skills/ powers/ plot points that are in the original Star Wars that were not explained before they showed up in the theatrical cut and seem to come out of nowhere.
Obiwan being able to use the Jedi mind trick on the Stormtroopers.

Obi-wan is a master in the Force. No problem here.

Leia being able to understands Chewbaca when she takes over for Han during the tie fighter attack.

Obi-wan is able to talk with him too in the Cantina. Considering we’re in an alien society, it’s pretty obvious some people need to learn alien languages, especially Leia who is a royal (and a spy).

Leia knowing how to help Chewbaca pilot the Falcon during said attack, to the point where she is even able to give damage reports.

She doesn’t pilot the Falcon herself (I don’t remember seeing her actually piloting it) and the Falcon’s panel is probably self-explaining for the damages. If not, I agree with you that it wasn’t explained.

Luke being able to use the force. He trains once for about thirty seconds with Obiwan.

It does learn the lesson that he can “let go to his feelings”. He’s still guided by Obi-wan during his “perfect shot” which, anyway, he said it could’ve actually be done even back on Tatooine (before learning about the Force). Still more believable than anything Rey does with zero training in TFA.

The hidden storage compartments on the Falcon. They come completely out of nowhere and are only there to advance the plot, their existence is never even hinted at before hand.

But it’s explained they used it for smuggling, it is actually explained and was in the Falcon all along.

Luke being able to out fly trained pilots and hit a target even a computer can’t. Remember the line about him being a great pilot was cut from the theatrical cut and it wasn’t until I heard the radio version that I knew the T-16 was a ship and not the type of speeder he was driving around. In the movie it is not made clear and we never hear about him piloting a ship before this, except for him saying “I am not such a bad pilot myself” but this seems like him bragging to Han and Obiwan rolls his eyes at this claim, so the movie it’s self up to that point leads us to believe that Luke knows nothing about piloting. The only way a new viewer to the film could know where Luke’s skills comes from is if they somehow knew about the deleted scenes, but that assumes they read a novel or youtube existed back in 77.

Wrong, I already said it: Obi-wan says Luke is quite a good pilot too, like his father.

Also it still doesn’t make much sense since Luke doesn’t seem to know how hyperspace works and the flashing lights on the Falcon’s controls seem to puzzle him and he needs Han to explain both of these things to him, and yet they must be some for of standardized controls that most ships use or how else do we explain Leia knowing how to use the Falcon later in the same movie? Unless there is some untold story that she and Han are keeping under wraps where she was on the ship before and Han taught her how to fly it. This is a massive plot hole that makes no sense to this day and makes bot Luke and Leia Marry Sues.

Well, no one said fighters and merchant ships work and control the same. About Leia, read what I said before.
Even if this one were an actual plot hole, it would be one actual plot hole (which is still bad) against I can’t even remember how many plot holes in TFA just for Rey.

I have to wonder why the people attacking this movie for being worthless garbage are not doing the same to Star Wars. If Rey is a Marry Sue then Luke is one too and that means Star Wars has been a piece of worthless garbage that should be burnt from day one.

Who are you talking to? :\ I never said this movie is “worthless garbage”.

Nothing you said is ever officially stated in Star Wars if it stands on it’s own without any other movies. So if something not being officially stated as fact in bold typeface in TFA means that explanations based on lines and what we see there doesn’t count, then why do the explanations in Star Wars count.

When is it stated on screen before the stormtroopers scene that Jedi can could people’s minds like The Shadow? You are giving Rey crap for having having powers and knowing things that have not been spelled out before they were used in the movie, when Obiwan does the exact same thing in the first movie.

We are never shown Leia knowing what Chewie is saying, in fact she talks about him like he is a thing and throws around what could be considered a racist remark about his race. this would lead me to believe that she has never interacted with Wookies before, so why would she be able to understand him?

Also if Leia wasn’t helping to fly the ship then why did she need to go up there in the fist place and when is it stated in any of the movies that she knows anything about flying a ship, let alone enough to help in combat with a ship that controls are so far from the standard most people use that Luke, who is quite a good pilot, is confused by them. When is it even implied that she has any training that would help on a merchant ship in combat? If she isn’t up there to help fly it then all she was doing was getting in Chewbaca’s way, in the middle of a combat situation and why would Han or Chewie let her do that?

Vader has still been in combat and Luke has not, so again how is Luke able to out fly Vader for so long and how is he so in touch with the force after one training session? I mean Luke being to out fly Vader under the logic you are applying to Rey and Ren’s fight, would be like a crop duster pilot being to out fly a an ace when they were dueling in state of the art F22s. Why are you not calling Luke a Marry Sue.

Oh and about the fight think about what I have just explained as someone who has used a sword and has studied it’s use for some time and then tell me what part of this doesn’t make sense. Ren starts out winning but in the cold people burn through energy fast, he is using up his fast then Ray is, then you add in the fact that he is wounded, then he leaves himself open to an attack because he wants to try and tempt Rey to the dark side, he has not been in a real fight since Luke vanished so he isn’t expected Rey to lash out, he is expecting her to join him because he is just that full of himself, she then surprises him after letting the force in and gets in a couple of lucky hits that send him to the ground. He tired by this point and his body was giving out, if he had seen Rey as a threat he would have finished her off before he got tired, but he did and that did him in, it’s all there in the fight. You can tell he is getting tired because he keeps hitting himself so he can use the pain to keep himself awake and angry and full of energy.

Real life fights are nothing like the ones you see in video games, there are not any stats that determine who wins and loses every time, and in a sword fight if you misplace one foot in the middle of the fight, not matter how good you are you can find yourself in a world of hurt.

I have to say after the prequels this fight was a breath of fresh air, it seemed to be planed out by someone who knew how real fighting worked and knew that no matter who you are fighting if you don’t press your advantage when you have it, you risk losing the fight because it can turn on a dime.

Just because someone has been doing something longer does not mean they have some magic stat that causes them to win every fight regardless of any stupid mistakes they make. Ren made a bunch of mistakes, not the least of which was not being interested in killing Rey. In a real life or death fight if one person doesn’t treat it as a life or death fight they will at some point find themselves in trouble when facing someone who does view it as such.

Oh and if all it takes is the one training session to open Luke’s mind to the force, then could it be that Rey’s vision when she touched Luke’s lightsaber and then Ren using the force to try and get into her head had opened her mind to the force and thus she was able to do things on the same scale Luke was? I know this isn’t spelled out in the movie, but since when is everything spelled out in any Star Wars movie?

All that stuff you said explaining plot holes in Star Wars, was never stated on screen, we are left to figure it out ourselves from the context of how it shows up in the movie, so why is it not okay for TFA to do the exact same thing and to a lesser degree?

Oh right because this movie is new so bashing it is cool, but bash Star Wars or any of it’s characters is not. I don’t think anyone would even be complaining about Rey if she had been a guy, I think the only reason this question even comes up is because she is a girl and whenever there is a female lead in a modern movie it doesn’t take long for someone to accuse her of being a Marry Sue but I have never once in my life seen this same charge applied to a male character.

The fact is we see her make mistakes, she isn’t perfect, and everyone doesn’t treat her like she is the best thing in the history of everything and that alone puts her out of the running to be a Marry Sue without anything else needing to be explained. She is only a Marry Sue if you ignore all the times she makes a mistake or isn’t perfect at something, and once you are doing that then it is on you and not the writers, since they have no control over what you make up in your own head.

Honestly I think it has gotten to the point that if a female character does anything right in a movie and doesn’t spend the whole time crying while waiting for a male hero to save her she is called a Marry Sue.

darklordoftech said:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Droid_Revolution

Wow, and I thought the prequels had an insane number of important events just happening to happen at the exact same time.

There are no words, it’s just too insane to even thing about and now I will never be able to watch Jedi the same way again.

DominicCobb said:

I read somewhere that Avatar had the advantage of exchange rates that were 10-15% better. That’s probably the main reason. At least TFA beat it in the US.

Regarding Gone With the Wind’s all time adjusted record, it will never be beat. Simply put, for 40+ years following Gone With the Wind’s initial release there was no such thing as home video, so the only way for people to see it was in theaters. Indeed, GWTW made most of its money from rereleases. That doesn’t even get into the fact of modern internet piracy and the fact that in a few months TFA will be on Blu-Ray, DVD, iTunes, Amazon, Youtube, HBO, torrent sites, etc.

But TFA’s run will be impressive when adjusted for inflation. In fact, it already is. Right now it’s sitting at 15th place all time adjusted, ahead of every Star Wars film save the first two (though it will overtake ESB in a few days). When all is said and done, it has a chance to make it into the top 10, which is VERY impressive.

This is the reason I have been saying for years that if we adjust for inflation then the amount of money made off of home video releases should be counted as well, since most older films have the advantage of TV and home video not existing when they were released so they got rereleased many times over and made a ton of extra money that way.

suspiciouscoffee said:

When TFA opened I was convinced that it would shatter Avatar’s record. Now, I’m not sure.

It still baffles me that Avatar made so much money in the first place. Most people I know say it was boring and forgettable (I agree).

Yeah same with Titanic, and on top of that it was mostly just a made up love story that dragged the deaths of 1500 real people into the situation for some reason. Then there are parts where it couldn’t bother to get the history right, so it’s not as bad as titanic, but Avatar was boring and preachy.

I have no idea how that movie was such a huge hit at the box office. I am guessing a lot of people agreed with me because I was working at Wal Mart at the time and the huge number of DvDs and Blu Rays that were ordered ended up in the five and seven dollar bins within two weeks of coming out. It seems most people didn’t want to rewatch this film at home.

The fact that both Titanic and Avatar were such huge hits baffles me to no end.

TheBoost said:

Here’s the game. Find the image or article on Wookipedia that seems the most absurdly un-Star Wars.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/File:Nightsisters_NEGTF_Full.jpg

Apparently this is Darth Panda and her sexy ninja minions.

Darth Panda???

Shouldn’t that name go to a Sith version of Porkins who like fur coats?

That’s a name that belongs in the Star Wars Holiday special.

Is anyone supposed to be afraid of the Sith who I would assume spends most of her time sitting around and eating bamboo?

oojason said:

John Doom said:

oojason said:

I disagree with a lot of that JD - for one she hasn’t acquired more skills than Luke has (has she?)

She has, indeed:
-she has extensive mechanics knowledge (thankfully, it’s at least hinted that it may be because of her work as a scavenger;
-she’s a good enough pilot that she can outdo two (or three?) Tie-Fighters; Specifically, she knows how to pilot the Falcon AND also knows how to fix specific Falcon’s issues;
-she’s a skilled fighter in both close-quarter and range combat;
-in the end, she knows how to use the Force to push, pull, trick.

and she is clearly not a skilled Jedi or even ‘just’ a Jedi (that may come in the later films?), her first knowledge of the Force is when Han tells her and Finn about it on the Falcon, no?

Well not as a “status”, but in the end she does both know how to use Force and the handle a lightsaber fight, almost like a “fully trained” Jedi.

She is too perfect? Adapting to her environment in which she has grown up… she has clearly struggled to irk out a living as a scavenger and had to learn to fend for herself - but is quite tidy with the staff and bit and kicked her way through a fight (none of which not really Jedi skills). She also knows how to fix things - probably from her life as a scavenger - and has past experience of flying ships - though not leaving the planet atmosphere).

I’m not saying she shouldn’t know this much because Luke didn’t, just that some of her skills are unexplained, so it feels like she always knows exactly what is needed when is needed. If she can do almost anything, I wonder how they’ll ever be able to put her in a dangerous situation 😄

She then nearly crashes the Falcon, later plans to return to Jakku to await a return of family she deep down knows aren’t coming back, runs from Maz’s castle away from where she has the Force Visions after touching Luke’s old sabre - which is her first real introduction to the Force.

The first time she displays abilities with the Force is when she is being interrogated by Ren - she resists his mind probe and is actually able to probe him back from seemingly learns some abilities or skills from this event to help make she escape via the help of a weak minded stormtrooper. This is being a Mary Sue? It may well be a clue for what is to come in her development, or establishing her character as having the ability to use the Force… or a sign of Ren’s over-confidence, arrogance, or even untrained skills - maybe both?

There’s no enstablishment. Had they at least questioned her sudden knowledge of the Force (like they actually did with Luke’s lightsaber’s finding), it would’ve been fine, though.

The next time she displays abilities with the Force is where she ‘let’s the Force in’ towards the end of her fight with Ren - a fight she was clearly losing to an injured, yet experienced sabre wielder - though hasn’t finished his own training.

Ren keeps hurting himself: if anything, his wound almost seem to make him more powerful. In any case, trained or untrained, wounded or not, Rey suddenly has the upper hand.

And that seemed to me to be the Force guiding her - rather than her having Jedi powers or having more skills than Luke, or being ‘too perfect’… no?

It didn’t seem to me that way :\

Quoting breakdown quotes is starting to hurt my eyes…

your first reply - you ignored the crashing the Falcon bit, she didn’t outdo 2/3 Ties - Finn shot 2 down, yes? A bit of teamwork wouldn’t you say.

your second reply - holding a lightsabre and having a small knowledge of using the Force does not make her an ‘almost fully trained Jedi’.

your third reply - ‘just that some of her skills are unexplained, so it feels like she always knows exactly what is needed when is needed’ - makes little sense.

your fourth reply - ‘sudden knowledge of the Force’ - we’ve established she has knowledge of The Force beforehand - but not how to use it before the interrogation scene with Ren. During the interrogation she gains that knowledge from Ren himself, no?

your fifth reply - you’re reaching a lot there in claiming being shot by a powerful bowcaster made him more powerful? and Rey still only had the upper hand when she let the Force in.

your sixth reply - ok, that’s your interpretation of it.

Yeah she still had to get a feel for using the lightsaber so she wouldn’t be winning the fight from the start but again if you know the first thing about swords then you know that going on the offense with one takes a lot more energy then being on the defense. In other words the whole time Ren is fighting ray he is wounded and he is not trying to kill her, but he is using more energy then she is when he is wounded so when she gets a feel for the weapon and she gets mad he is in trouble. Really he lost control for less then thirty seconds and that cost him the fight, even the best sword fighters can have this happen to them. Also again what proof do we see in the film that Ren is really good with a lightsaber, do we see him defeat anyone who is trained with a lightsaber in the movie, if the movie is supposed to stand on it’s own then what proof are we given that he knows what he is doing with a lightsaber. All we know is that he killed some other Jedi, but we are never told it is in a lightsaber fight.

Oh and as for Rey knowing about the gas and how the controls work, if she had to interact with those systems at all while doing the installs for that big guy on the planet then she would need to know how those systems worked. Now she may not remember every detail every second of her life because it was not the center of her existence but have you ever tried to make repairs or upgrades to a car or a computer without knowing the basics of how the systems work? It can’t be done because you will end up wrecking the thing.

Oh and here are just a few skills/ powers/ plot points that are in the original Star Wars that were not explained before they showed up in the theatrical cut and seem to come out of nowhere.

Obiwan being able to use the Jedi mind trick on the Stormtroopers.

Leia being able to understands Chewbaca when she takes over for Han during the tie fighter attack.

Leia knowing how to help Chewbaca pilot the Falcon during said attack, to the point where she is even able to give damage reports.

Luke being able to use the force. He trains once for about thirty seconds with Obiwan.

The hidden storage compartments on the Falcon. They come completely out of nowhere and are only there to advance the plot, their existence is never even hinted at before hand.

Luke being able to out fly trained pilots and hit a target even a computer can’t. Remember the line about him being a great pilot was cut from the theatrical cut and it wasn’t until I heard the radio version that I knew the T-16 was a ship and not the type of speeder he was driving around. In the movie it is not made clear and we never hear about him piloting a ship before this, except for him saying “I am not such a bad pilot myself” but this seems like him bragging to Han and Obiwan rolls his eyes at this claim, so the movie it’s self up to that point leads us to believe that Luke knows nothing about piloting. The only way a new viewer to the film could know where Luke’s skills comes from is if they somehow knew about the deleted scenes, but that assumes they read a novel or youtube existed back in 77. Also it still doesn’t make much sense since Luke doesn’t seem to know how hyperspace works and the flashing lights on the Falcon’s controls seem to puzzle him and he needs Han to explain both of these things to him, and yet they must be some for of standardized controls that most ships use or how else do we explain Leia knowing how to use the Falcon later in the same movie? Unless there is some untold story that she and Han are keeping under wraps where she was on the ship before and Han taught her how to fly it. This is a massive plot hole that makes no sense to this day and makes bot Luke and Leia Marry Sues.

I have to wonder why the people attacking this movie for being worthless garbage are not doing the same to Star Wars. If Rey is a Marry Sue then Luke is one too and that means Star Wars has been a piece of worthless garbage that should be burnt from day one.

joefavs said:

Couldn’t it be that -GASP- the character is supposed to be more powerful than Luke? Everyone’s treating this like they failed to portray a character on roughly ANH-era Luke’s level believably, but since when is that the cap on Force aptitude in this universe? Maybe Rey just does better than Luke because she is better than Luke.

Yeah not to mention Luke had never flown an X Wing before and he had all of one day of training in the ways of the force and yet Darth Vader who in that movie takes out most of the other rebel pilots and according to that movie killed all the Jedi senses that the force is strong with Luke and Vader has a lot of trouble getting a beat on Luke. So clearly the force works that way.

Also there is the name of the movie, maybe it isn’t just a name like Attack of the clones, maybe it means something, you know like film titles are supposed to. Maybe the name The Force Awakens means that the force is coming back from a long sleep and it is going to be a more active part in this trilogy then it ever has been up to this point. Maybe it has something to do with whatever “The First Jedi Temple” that Luke has been looking for is.

It seems to me a lot of people are judging this film and the characters when we only have one third of the story.

If you judge Star Wars on it’s own there are a lot of plot holes and unanswered questions in that movie too, after all if all the questions and issues had been dealt with in that movie then the other two movies would have just been retreads. Also there is no such thing as a movie without a single plot hole, even Citizen Kane has at least one plot hole in it, and that is my favorite movie.

Oh and because I know someone is going to bring up these two points I will just answer them right now. First Rey knows about the Falcon and it’s upgrades because she was the one who installed them, the guy who had the Falcon was the same guy who she was selling stuff to in exchange for food. She says she has been on the ship before so it is logical to assume that she was the one doing the grunt work of installing the upgrades for that guy.

Second when it comes to her defeating Ren if you know anything about the way swords work or the history of warfare then it makes perfect sense. One of the reasons the upper classes in ancient times were the only ones who used swords was that they cost a lot of money and if you want to be any good with them you have to practice every day and you have to do that just to keep your skills sharp and the only people who had the time to do that were the upper classes who didn’t have to worry about spending 99% of their time growing their own food so they wouldn’t starve. Now Ren is so full of himself I don’t see him as being the type who would keep practicing after he had killed everyone who used Lightsabers in the galaxy, we don’t see him use his saber in real combat before that point in the movie. Now him being full of himself also means that he isn’t going to see Finn or Rey as a threat and he wants to turn Rey so he really isn’t trying to kill her. Now add to that the fact that it must have been at least a decade since he was last in a fight and he has not really been practicing and you have the perfect conditions for him to be surprised for a few seconds and get one of his arms chopped off. That is all that happens, Rey strikes back in rage for less then thirty seconds and he loses a limb and can’t fight. Honestly for someone who I can’t see practicing every day and was described as not having completed his training, it really wasn’t that surprising an outcome and as I said since Rey seems to be tapping into what the OT described as the Dark Side of the force in order to win, it doesn’t make her perfect, if anything it makes her more flawed then Luke ever was and it explains why Luke doesn’t want to take the Saber from her in the end, he can sense that she has given into the dark side of the force already.

Honestly calling the character a Marry Sue when we don’t even know her whole story yet and two thirds of her plot arc have yet to be shown in theaters just strikes me as silly and short sighted and I don’t think things are going to play out in the next two movies the way the people applying this label think they will.

I mean the next movie is already being described as darker by the cast of this one so I am guessing that since Rey is the main character, her character will be at least one of the things we will see more of a dark side of.

In short the Marry Sue label makes no sense to me based on this movie alone, and even if it did since it is planned as the first of three movies for this character, applying it two Rey when we only have this film to go on seems premature at best.

oojason said:

Mate, I think it’s ‘Mary Sue’ not ‘Merry Sue’? - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Sue

I agree with a lot (not all) of you what you say above - I don’t think Rey is a ‘Mary Sue’ either, much in the way Luke wasn’t (though he possibly fits the description more than Rey does in Ep4).

It seems to me it is a lazy criticism - not understanding the characters in the SW universe, or not thinking through the events in the film itself as a whole (her environment, how she struggles initially to the events occurring around her, the decisions she makes, then how she evolves and adapts through those situations she encounters etc - ultimately ending with her ‘Letting The Force In’, as it were, to not be defeated by Ren in the lightsabre fight at the end of the film).

An example of a similar sort of lazy and not very well thought-through click-bait ‘journalism’ here:-

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/seth-abramson/40-unforgivable-plot-holes-in-star-wars-the-force-awakens_b_8850324.html -

Which was quite well retorted to in here:-

https://www.facebook.com/notes/matty-granger/at-long-lastmy-star-wars-episode-vii-review-the-force-awakens-the-rise-of-idiot-/10153163095086277/

That’s not to say there aren’t valid criticisms of the film or the characters therein - as there will be for almost any film out there… but the Mary Sue thing just doesn’t seem applicable to Rey in this film.

Darn it! This is what I get for posting when I am half awake. Thanks for pointing that out and thanks for the links.

I do have to wonder if some of the people being so critical of this film have seen all the scenes they talk about in context or if they just saw the trailers and have not seen the movie.

Rey is a perfect example of this. She is really good character and I don’t think she fits as a Marry Sue at all.

I have seen Episode 7 twice and the number one reaction I have seen on the web to this movie is people calling Rey a “Marry Sue” and saying that she is too perfect. I don’t think this charge against the movie is true and allow me to explain why.

Oh, Spoilers below.

I don’t see her as perfect, I never did. In Star Wars Luke is conflicted about being a Jedi and helping Obiwan because as much as he wants to leave he doesn’t want to be selfish and leave his uncle and aunt high and dry when they need his help. There is no easy answer to what is the right thing to do in this situation is, and you see that from Obiwan’s reaction, he just says “You must do what you feel is right of course.”

In episode 7 Rey is the one going through the Han Solo arc and who just wants to do her own thing and get back to her own personal problems and wait for her family to show up, even after it is clear she is neck deep in the situation. She has to be dragged into helping and it is only the fact that deep down she has a good heart that keeps her going. Also she can be kind of mean, The best example is that is when she gives Finn flak for holding her hand. First he was pulling her out of the way of an attack he didn’t see coming until the last second and second as far as she knows at that time Finn is a resistance fighter and from his view point she is just some random civilian, he didn’t have time to ask for her personal history, so of course he is going to assume she doesn’t have the skills need to survive in combat, that is what trained military personal always assume about civilians and yet she takes time out of their escape to yell at him? She clearly sometimes takes offense when none was meant and it is not the time or the place to do so. Also she wins by giving into her anger and really striking Ren with a look of pure rage on her face. Going back to the OT, Vader and the Emperor’s whole plan to turn Luke to the dark side was to get him to strike at Vader in rage and then see that anger was the key to victory in a fight and then he would be well on the path to the dark side. Luke was only able to shun that path by giving up his lightsaber and being willing to die in a fight, if anger was the only way to win. Rey doesn’t do this because she didn’t have a Yoda telling her “Wars not make one great.” Instead she gave in and she won, so I see her as being farther down the path to the dark side then Luke was.

The bottom line is I don’t see Rey as a Marry Sue, she has flaws if you know where to look for them, they are just flaws that you can only catch if you have seen the OT. In normal modern fiction there is nothing wrong with the hero getting angry if that leads to them doing a great good and saving people. Star Wars is about a journey of the spirit so people’s actions and their results are not as important as the motivations behind those actions, because those are what tell you about the state of the character’s souls and by the rules Star Wars plays by her soul is in danger. She could easily slip to the dark side despite her own best intentions and her being a good person deep down. She really is the character Anikin should have been in the prequels. She is thrown into a situation with very little training and without Yoda around telling her that being a Jedi really isn’t about a lightsaber or force powers, she is settling for what gets results, and the sad fact is that evil tends to get results quicker in the short term. In short I really like Rey’s character and think she is one of the best I have ever seen in a movie of this type, not because she is a woman who is able to beat people up, but because she has flaws and a lot of room to grow and that is what makes characters interesting. Characters who are not evil but can still end up doing bad things and have to watch themselves are the most interesting in my book, it’s what Luke was in the OT and it seems to be what Rey is.

That is another reason why I think it makes the most sense from a story stand point for her to be Luke’s daughter. She is dealing with the same issues every member of her family has had to deal with in the past, but neither Anikin or Luke’s solution will work for her. Anikin choose to fight and he turn to the dark side. Luke has had to either run away or give up in order to avoid turning to the dark side, she is going to have to find a third path that is the ultimate solution to the Skywalker family’s problems and that is going to be very interesting to see. I really hope the writers don’t screw things up by focusing too much on action scenes in the next two movies because Rey is a very interesting character and if she is handled right in the sequels her journey will feel like it was supposed to be part of the Star Wars saga all along and in the future people will not be able to imagine the story of Star Wars without her as a part of it. That is not only why I don’t think she is a Merry Sue but why I think her being anything other then Luke’s daughter would make no sense from a story or character standpoint. She is dealing with the problems of the Skywalker family so having her be part of some other random family would just feel wrong somehow.

Any way that is how I see it based on seeing the movie twice. I know others here have had the chance to see it more times and may have picked up on things I didn’t so feel free to disagree. 😃 That is just how I see it at the moment and how I would like the sequels to handle Rey and the situation she is in.

By Grabthar’s Hammer, he will be avenged.

Well this news makes me really sad and it came out of nowhere.

It reminds me of how shocked i was when Elizabeth Sladen died.

So sad😦

I lost one of my Grandfather’s to cancer when I was only five and I had only met him twice. Man I hate cancer.