DominicCobb

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

Absolutely the scariest thing. Obviously I’m not talking about the immediate threat, but I don’t think there’s much doubt that Kylo brought Luke more pain than Vader (I’m talking emotionally here).

Yeah, but what the basis is for that fear, and pain other than the vague concept of “darkness in his heart” is unknown. All we saw was a young boy lying in his bed, which isn’t much at all IMO, considering this:

No, he sees someone who will bring to an end everything and everyone that he spent his entire life building and loving.

He sees someone who might bring an end to everything and everyone that he spent his entire life building and loving.

Yes, and in the briefest moment of pure instinct he thought he could stop it. And then it passed like a fleeting shadow.

Collipso said:

dahmage said:

Collipso said:

From what we see and are told in the movie, apparently Luke didn’t even try to talk to Ben before going to him in his hut. And that’s just insane for me. We’re talking about the guy who surrendered himself to the Empire to have some alone time with Hitler to try to convince him that he’s actually a good guy.

Luke said that he had sensed some of this during their training, but had to be sure. It really doesn’t seem like the kind of thing that you ask someone about as a primary way of discovering the truth.

I respectfully disagree. To me, trust is the basis for any relationship, and not just romantic ones. So yes, Luke should’ve talked to Ben before anything. Talking to him would also trigger several of Ben’s inner thoughts and feelings that Luke would be able to sense, given the subject of their discussion, and because Ben at that point probably didn’t know how to close his mind from a Jedi master.

TFA would seem to imply that Ben’s raw strength enough would help him close his mind at least to some extent.

Collipso said:

DominicCobb said:

Absolutely the scariest thing. Obviously I’m not talking about the immediate threat, but I don’t think there’s much doubt that Kylo brought Luke more pain than Vader (I’m talking emotionally here).

I disagree. Vader in the end of TESB destroyed everything Luke believed in and everything in Luke’s world. He had possibly killed his best friend, told him that his dad was not a hero but a monster, made him see his master were liars, destroyed his base at the beginning of the movie, killed several of his friends… and Luke was a young, immature man (if you compare to what he should’ve been in TLJ).

So I highly doubt that the possible future he saw was worse than this. As selfless as anyone may be, we are always biased towards ourselves.

There’s a big difference between being 20 years old and falling on your ass and learning your dad’s a failure and being 50 years old and facing the possibility that you’re a failure and your life’s work has been meaningless.

ray_afraid said:

DominicCobb said:

Collipso said:

From what we see and are told in the movie, apparently Luke didn’t even try to talk to Ben before going to him in his hut. And that’s just insane for me. We’re talking about the guy who surrendered himself to the Empire to have some alone time with Hitler to try to convince him that he’s actually a good guy.

Luke does not go to Ben’s hut to kill him.

Then why did he take his sword in with him?
“only what you take with you” and whatnot.

(I don’t care, just knocking conversation around)

I don’t know, Luke wasn’t in his pjs either.

Probably because he knew Ben was potentially dangerous. Knowledge and defense.

dahmage said:

ray_afraid said:

DominicCobb said:

I don’t think “Luke sneaking into his apprentice’s room” is a huge deal to start with. It’s his nephew, it’s not that creepy.

lolwat.

yeah no, i think Dom is right. I don’t know the exact setup of a Jedi training place, but i wouldn’t expect that privacy is a thing that the students expected.

I’m not even sure if Ben had a proper door.

Collipso said:

From what we see and are told in the movie, apparently Luke didn’t even try to talk to Ben before going to him in his hut. And that’s just insane for me. We’re talking about the guy who surrendered himself to the Empire to have some alone time with Hitler to try to convince him that he’s actually a good guy.

Luke does not go to Ben’s hut to kill him.

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

Absolutely the scariest thing. Obviously I’m not talking about the immediate threat, but I don’t think there’s much doubt that Kylo brought Luke more pain than Vader (I’m talking emotionally here).

Yeah, but what the basis is for that fear, and pain other than the vague concept of “darkness in his heart” is unknown. All we saw was a young boy lying in his bed, which isn’t much at all IMO, considering this:

No, he sees someone who will bring to an end everything and everyone that he spent his entire life building and loving.

ray_afraid said:

DominicCobb said:

I don’t think “Luke sneaking into his apprentice’s room” is a huge deal to start with. It’s his nephew, it’s not that creepy.

lolwat.

I’m not saying it’s normal, I’m just saying it’s not like he’s some random teacher, they’re family so it’s a lot less weird that they’d enter each other’s personal spaces without knocking. (I mean yeah there are things Luke could do that’d make the family connection be more creepy, but let’s not go there.)

It’s tough when there’s no real world analogue to what Luke does in there. I guess it’s kinda like if he went in at night to have a talk with his nephew about his potential psychopathy but first happened to see his journal by the door and opened it and found crazed ramblings about plans to kill everyone. Or something.

Absolutely the scariest thing. Obviously I’m not talking about the immediate threat, but I don’t think there’s much doubt that Kylo brought Luke more pain than Vader (I’m talking emotionally here).

As for Leia’s words, I took it that every Skywalker has Vader in them, Ben (and Luke) included. Yeah, Luke knew he had that potential, but it didn’t scare him enough at first, he thought he could teach him. It wasn’t until he saw it rear its ugly head during moments of Ben’s training that he decided to confront him.

A Jedi should be able to control his fear, for the most part, sure. But this is probably the scariest thing Luke has ever faced, I think expecting him to act completely perfect in this situation is downright silly. Ben is not “one student.” You can’t just fucking call him that. He’s Luke’s nephew. He’s the next Skywalker, which of course means a great potential for power but also a great potential for darkness.

It’s pretty easy to see why sensing darkness in Ben would freak him out to the point of trying to ascertain for sure where his heart’s at. If Ben had done something drastic beforehand, I’m not sure Luke would’ve even handled it this way. This is just Luke trying to get ahead of a situation before it turns bad. Sneaking into his nephew’s bedroom to sense his feelings isn’t even that irrational.

Not to mention, when Luke first tells the story it’s that he went to Ben’s hut to confront him. Obviously it didn’t go down that way, but I think it’s fair to assume that this was probably Luke’s initial plan. Note that the first flashback is the only time we see Luke before he enters the hut - in Luke’s second telling he’s already there - so it’s not unreasonable to assume this part of the prior telling is true. The implication being, Luke sensed darkness in him, went to confront him but before he did he decided to get a better look, saw more than he could have imagined which caused him in a brief moment of pure instinct to ignite his lightsaber, and then… you know.

The thing is, this isn’t the act of “some novice.” This is the act of a master who everyone, including to an extent himself, thinks can’t make mistakes. And yes, he is emotionally compromised. But what has prepared him for this? Especially when it’s implied there has been balance and peace for almost 30 years, how could Luke have been so perfect as to dodge this fear? Just because Luke is a Jedi master means he’s incapable of being afraid?

There is nothing out of character about this. It is 100% in character.

First of all, I don’t think “Luke sneaking into his apprentice’s room” is a huge deal to start with. It’s his nephew, it’s not that creepy. Not to mention it wasn’t his intent to kill Ben when he entered, I honestly doubt he even considered the possibility beforehand.

Second of all, it’s not like he hacked into his laptop and looked at Ben’s search history. Luke was searching Ben’s feelings, this is something Jedi do practically 24/7. He just decided to do it when Ben was asleep because that would give him the clearest picture. Is that a bit of a breach of privacy? Sure, of course it is (though not to the extent you’re making it out to be). Luke was afraid of Ben’s potential. He wanted to find out what was in his heart, and what his future was. Could he have handled the situation better? Yes, but that’s the point. In his hubris he thought he could take matters into his own hands. When he realized his mistake, it left him with shame and consequence.

Luke doesn’t read Ben’s thoughts.

CatBus said:

chyron8472 said:

TV’s Frink said:

I don’t care about the metaphor. He said he won’t watch any new Star Wars until we get the OOT.

But we did get the OOT. Just not in a purchasable form from official sources.

I don’t see how the argument of not having the OOT yet makes sense at this point, given that the “guerilla restorationist” himself even actively posts on these forums.

Again, just taking the metaphor and running with it…

Let’s say your beloved Barbara became a zombie. You have memories of Barbara, photos, letters, even videos that can remind you of her. You got a chance to know Barbara, and for that you are forever thankful.

But the neighbor kid down the street just got eaten by Barbara. The only Barbara he ever knew was the zombie Barbara.

So when you’re asking if “we” ever got the true Barbara, that depends if you’re just talking about yourself or are including the neighbor kid down the street.

TL;DR: The OOT is more than just unavailable commercially. As far as the general public is concerned, it’s been replaced.

Except it’s more like Barbara is still alive but just got some work done, and she never did anything like eat anyone, she just acted a little rude a few times.

Mrebo said:

I keep coming back to “When Harry Met Sally,” which proved men and women can’t be just friends.

You actually believe that?

Who said the PDFs are academic texts? They could be almost anything.

dahmage said:

DrDre said:

However, like many of us viewers she doesn’t find the legendary last Jedi on Ach-To, but a fat old drunk, who now hates Christmas.

Hyperbole lives on!

I thought you would be the one to snuff it out.

TV’s Frink said:

Also I find the comparison of Luke to an old drunk Santa Clause ridiculous, but you already knew that.

Also you don’t have to call him a “fat Santa Claus” since that’s redundant.

Also a third thing I’ve just forgotten.

Probably that Luke isn’t fat (not that it matters).

No

SilverWook said:

I’m old enough to recall when Trekkie fell out of favor as the preferred term. (Some media began using it in a mocking fashion by the end of the '70’s.) Amazing nobody ever coined a one word phrase for SW fans.

I believe that word is “humans.”

I don’t care much for “future proofing,” even though I have a 4K tv I doubt I’ll have a 4K player any time soon. Besides, I might as well just get the whole trilogy on that format when they inevitably do the extra special double dip box set a few years down the line.

He’s definitely a weirdo, let’s not forget that he doesn’t understand the concept of female friends.

This past week I got this

and this

Collipso said:

DominicCobb said:

There is the argument that Lucas was working with certain archetypes.

Were they gender specific?

Arguably (like Leia is “the princess”).

Yeah I don’t get any of that.