Disney Ruined Star Wars

This was a quote I read from someone and I agree with it very much:

Sad that in the end people just throw their hands up and say "doesn’t work for you, works for me, oh well."
Good storytelling transcends subjective solipsism. The fact of the matter is that Luke’s actions in this film were not built up to in the previous films at all, and his character is a very severe departure from what he was. He also represents a bold new moral view of this universe, from the makers of this film, which is almost too sad to describe.
Art is an extension of worldview. It taps into what matters most to us. Lucas showed what matters most to him. And what was done to that worldview, and what worldview has replaced it, is chilly in the extreme. I certainly won’t be anxious to show this film to my children, when I have them. 1-6, sure. I do not agree with the values of this film, or the worldview it presents though. It seems cynical, poisonous and nihilistic, especially in light of what came before.
You may enjoy that if you like but there is no denying the shift that occurs. Anyone who denies that shift is very likely blind to the themes of these films.

MalàStrana said:

Disney Ruined Star Wars said:

The idea the Jedi are bad is such revisionist history that all started with the prequels.

“Bad” ? No, but they lost by arrogance and blindness to their own power. In ROTS I really like the part where Mace just wants to kick Palpatine’s ass without any proof besides what Anakin told him.

Well, some of us hate the prequels and don’t really consider them Star Wars anyway. That’s where this fan division really started I think. If you grew up as an OT Star Wars fan, there was nothing bad about the Jedi. George turned into the billionaire and suddenly he didn’t want to make movies anymore about small little bands of friends rising up and overthrowing the existing order. His center of gravity changed and he wanted to start telling stories about political squabbling and the two trilogies don’t coexist well with each other. I mean, he introduced Midochlorians after all!

I was hopeful when TFA came out that Disney was moving away from the prequels and bringing Star Wars back to the originals. That shot of Han saying “Chewie, we’re home” and all the emphasis on practical sets and effects. But I guess it was probably nothing more than a ruse.

Some things I really liked about the new trilogy:

1. Seeing the old gang back together again
2. Passing the torch to a new generation of heroes and fans
3. Restoring the OT aesthetic (the PT was ugly and fake) but still update to 21st century
4. Rey being a strong female lead
5. New adventures and storylines still keeping the spirit of the originals

TFA had some great moments and some what were they thinking moments? I thought it was a mixed bag, but there was still hope or wonder to see where the story went. Now it’s all trashed. I wonder if anyone can explain to me first, independent of Star Wars, how was this a good movie? The plot was nonsensical. There were so many contrived scenarios and subplots. They kept returning to the exact same shot of the First Order ship shooting at the shields of the fleeing Resistance ship over and over again. I counted at least 4 times they used the same shot! The characters didn’t develop at all. They spent a whole movie trying to find Luke…Rey goes there to get him and afterward Yoda is like “you didn’t need to find him, you already know everything”. Gee, great.

I mean the movie was just a bad movie, but then you take the spirit of Star Wars and Luke’s character and just pour acid all over them and throw them into a dumpster fire. Even Mark Hamill said he disagrees with everything! That should tell you something.

Oh well, have to remind myself it’s just a movie. These new ones can never change how I feel about the original three…

The idea the Jedi are bad is such revisionist history that all started with the prequels.

adywan said:

They didn’t do it to protect him. They used him.

I strongly disagree. I think this is the wrong take. See below.

adywan said:
Don’t you think that suddenly finding out , from the guy you were trying to kill, that he is your father and that the people who you thought were trying to help you were lying to you for their own gain, wouldn’t cause this kid some serious pain? That could screw someone up.

They weren’t lying for their own gain. They were protecting him from turning to the dark side. Luke started the trilogy young and naive and inexperienced. He gave into his impulses easily. Do you think it would have been a good idea for Obi-Wan to tell Luke: “hey kid your dad’s a mass murderer and he abandoned you and your family. Your whole life is a lie!” Come to terms with that!

Or what if Yoda had told him, “hey Vader is your dad, if you go fight him he’s going to ask you to join him and you can rule the galaxy”.

No way man. Their goal was to train him so he could be mature and wise enough to deal with all of that when he was ready to do so in a healthy manner, and still turn out to be a good person, and save the galaxy.

DominicCobb said:

TLJ across the board moves the saga from simple good vs evil to much grayer territories. I like that a lot, I guess some don’t. Maybe that’s one of the big things causing the divide here.

I suspect Star Wars will mean different things to different people. Especially if someone were an old school fan or they start watching during the prequels or they just got into these new movies. But I think most people who grew up with the OT will have a hard time accepting TLJ as anything other than heresy. YMMV

adywan said:

Well the Jedi aren’t exactly without flaws in the OT. You get Obi-wan lying , and Yoda keeping his mouth shut, to Luke about his father because they needed him to defeat the empire. And , when Luke was rushing off to save his friends and ultimately confront vader, Obi-Wan told him that he wouldn’t interfere. The same person that was supposed to be more powerful than we could possibly imagine after being struck down. And then, When Luke was calling out to him to help, completely ignored him. And finally told him that if he didn’t go and face Vader again and kill him that the emperor had won. refused to even listen when Luke said there was still good in him. He just wanted Vader dead.

How are any of these flaws? Obi-wan didn’t lie so much as he obscured the truth to protect Luke. He and Yoda knew that Luke wasn’t ready for that information, it would have destroyed him and turned him to the dark side. Nothing the Jedi did in the original movies was “bad” or “misguided” or “evil”.

That’s what Star Wars used to be. The forces of good, betrayed and nearly extinguished from the galaxy, banding together into a common resistance, to fight tyranny, and oppression, and evil, all of the things represented by the bureaucratic Galactic Empire. That was always the moral of the story.

When Disney bought Star Wars and announced they would make another trilogy, I was hoping they would pass on that good and moral story to a new generation of fans. It was an even better thing to see Rey in the lead as a female character. Instead we got these cash grab toy commercials, where characters never grow or learn anything. They already come pre-packaged all powerful. And the Jedi are actually bad people. The exact opposite of what the OT stood for.

The Force Awakens was flawed in a lot of ways but there were some good parts and some room for potential. This movie was just the worst. So so so bad.

NeverarGreat said:

Sorry to have to tell you this, but that stuff’s technically canon.

Everyone has their own canon. If something in Star Wars is fundamentally opposed to the spirit of the original movies, I consider it to be an usurper and illegitimate. YMMV

And my problems with the movie are a lot deeper than that. When it comes to the new characters like Rey, there is no character development. And the plot is nonsensical. And the villains are idiots. Then there are all of the sequences that remind me of the factory in Attack of the Clones. The Force Awakens, flawed as it is, was much better than this one, it was just awful to watch.

^^Yeah it feels like prequel mantra. That’s probably why I dislike this movie so much.

It really felt like watching Attack of the Clones. 😦

I seriously can’t believe that’s the narrative going around these stories and some parts of the web right now.

The Jedi are bad

Think about that for a minute… mad

NeverarGreat said:

Luke’s entire reason for being a Jedi was because his father did it and it seemed like a good career path after his future in moisture farming went up in flames. It seems harsh, but there it is. In Empire, he realizes that his father actually wasn’t this great hero but a massive jerk who ruined Star Wars for everyone thirty years ago. By the end of the trilogy, Luke finally makes some peace with that. He boldly proclaims that he is not just a Jedi, but specifically ‘a Jedi like my father’. Basically, he sees in himself the same potential for failure and may even realize how the Jedi religion sets people up to fail, and he is okay with that. The trilogy ends with him being torn between two worlds - the world of his friends, and the world of his Jedi teachers who want him to spread their failed teachings throughout the universe. He tries to be the Jedi sage, and it predictably fails, to the ruin of both his friends and the Jedi. Now he’s master of exactly zero worlds, so I can totally see why he’d try to hunt down the Jedi texts and burn them. After all, in some ways this is ultimately the fault of the religion.

None of this is true at all, especially the part where you say he realizes the Jedi religion sets people up to fail. Luke was proud of becoming a Jedi by the end of the original trilogy. It was his character arc that he had been striving for over the course of three movies. Even by Return of the Jedi, when he had become exceedingly powerful, Yoda told him he was not a Jedi yet. He had one more task to finish. He confronted his father, and did not turn.

Luke was proud to become a Jedi. Good defeated evil.

All of this nonsense about the Jedi being bad is nonsense being created by people who don’t understand Star Wars and are just trying to do a money grab. It is heretical.

CHEWBAKAspelledwrong said:

Read the last 13 pp

ok

Luke’s character is all wrong in this new trilogy. Even Mark Hamill said he fundamentally disagrees with everything they are doing with Luke.

I don’t think the Disney crew understands Star Wars at all. Total money grab. mad

DrDre said:

This guy attempts to analyze what the difference is between George Lucas’ vision for Star Wars and the new movies. I think he actually makes some interesting points:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYroQCN-MAM

I think the main problem with these new Disney movies is that there is no character development. If you look at that OT, Han starts out as a mercenary but gradually he becomes a team player and loyal friend. Leia’s personality, naturally, is battle hardened and frostier than ice, but she gradually softens and develops into a sweetheart in many ways. Luke’s knowledge and powers grow dramatically over the course of the three movies.

Rey, on the other hand, started out as infallible wonder woman and I haven’t seen her character develop or grow or change at all. After two movies, she knows the same amount of information she knew at the beginning of the first one; her powers are more or less the same as they were at the beginning of the first one. Poe is the same. At least they gave Finn an interesting backstory, but he was useless in this second movie.

These scripts just seem like they are being created by amateurs. Even the villains are morons and not intimidating at all.

Finally, there are so many cringeworthy CGI animal and gag sequences, it’s like the prequels all over again. This new movie was just a new franchise low.

Does anyone think this will lead to the OOT being released on Bluray?

I have my doubts.

I thought this was the worst Star Wars movie. Even worse than the prequels. The story just felt like it was written by someone in high school daydreaming in class, it was so poor and underdeveloped. I didn’t expect much out of this movie but honestly I’m shocked how bad it was. Then there were just so many scenes or sequences that reminded me of the prequels. This movie was like Attack of the Clones on steroids. 😦

It’s sad, because I was really looking forward to a sequel trilogy with a compelling female lead. Instead this is escapist porn. A flat, underdeveloped female character who is all powerful and never earns anything while people around her try and figure out their feelings.

What is this drivel?