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Disney Ruined Star Wars

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20-Dec-2017
Last activity
1-Jan-2018
Posts
91

Post History

Post
#1150542
Topic
The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS **
Time

DrDre said:
A single 30 second scene, which has Luke telling us about a bad vision is not a proper set up. Show not tell still remains the best technique.

This is really true for me. These new films are all tell, tell, tell. Oh look at this flashy thing. I think the prequels were criticized for having so much clutter on the screen visually. These Disney films deserve to be criticized for having too much clutter in the narrative. Pointless characters, pointless subplots. Just enough time to tell you a thing or two and then back to the gimmicks. /mad

Post
#1150535
Topic
The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS **
Time

oojason said:

Get over yourself.

Anyway…

See Rule 2 - ‘Don’t attack other members personally. When debating, argue the point, not the person’ - as ray_afraid said previously, it is a personal attack on those who do enjoy them.

I suggest you heed the rule.

 

And also, lose the attitude.

I don’t have an attitude. You threatened me and (incorrectly) said I was trolling people, when it’s obvious I wasn’t. Someone else posted a disingenuous meme that I rebutted with logic. If you like the movie you like it, if you don’t like it you don’t like it, but some people can’t let any slight go unanswered, even if they have to do mental gymnastics to make dishonest points.

At the objection of another user, I did go back and qualify my statement by saying not all people who like the movie are that way. Of course that’s true, and I regret that in my haste I implied otherwise.

If you had politely pointed out my improper generalization, I would have quickly agreed with you. Don’t you think?

But rudeness without an any effort at discourse is usually a sign of contempt.
Is it the user name, or the hatred of TLJ and Disney? Just curious.

Post
#1150412
Topic
The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS **
Time

dahmage said:

Disney Ruined Star Wars said:

Another criticism is the tonal problems. The prequels had the same problems with tone. Really not even considering the gravity of certain moments and jumping straight to buffoonery or bathroom jokes. There is a lot of that in TLJ and also talk about how bad the Jedi are.

Honestly this movie felt like an homage to the prequels and was even worse than them. TFA was at least much better.

Just going to go ahead and share something i have been thinking lately. Have you noticed how with every new SW movie there seems to be a small contingent who say “At least X was better” where X is the film out right before this one? its a sliding window. First, TFA was bad, at least the prequels were better. Rogue One was bad, at least TFA was better. TLJ was bad, at least TFA/RO was better…

so there are at least some people who just struggle taking in new films… doesn’t make the new film bad.

That could be the case but I never thought TFA was worse than the prequels. TLJ is though.

DominicCobb said:

Disney Ruined Star Wars said:

Another criticism is the tonal problems. The prequels had the same problems with tone. Really not even considering the gravity of certain moments and jumping straight to buffoonery or bathroom jokes. There is a lot of that in TLJ and also talk about how bad the Jedi are.

Honestly this movie felt like an homage to the prequels and was even worse than them. TFA was at least much better.

The only reason jokes were a tonal problem in the PT was because they were aimed squarely at children, although they were not necessarily things children actually found funny. TLJ just makes normal jokes, and they’re funny jokes. PT jokes aren’t jokes, they’re Lucas’s approximation of jokes. So they’re not funny and don’t fit in at all.

I disagree with this. Comedy and tone are different. Maybe they are sometimes related I guess. But comedy is more subjective. If you think something is funny who can argue you with you? For me, I didn’t find almost anything in this movie funny and it didn’t feel like Star Wars humor either. I’ve seen a lot of people agree.

But tone is more objective. It’s not really about whether something is aimed at children. RLM had some great examples in their prequel criticism videos. I wonder if they will do the same on this movie. It really did feel like watching Attack of the Clones to me.

Post
#1150404
Topic
The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS **
Time

Another criticism is the tonal problems. The prequels had the same problems with tone. Really not even considering the gravity of certain moments and jumping straight to buffoonery or bathroom jokes. There is a lot of that in TLJ and also talk about how bad the Jedi are.

Honestly this movie felt like an homage to the prequels and was even worse than them. TFA was at least much better.

Post
#1150392
Topic
The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS **
Time

DrDre said:

Disney Ruined Star Wars said:

Collipso said:

DrDre said:

Warbler said:

Possessed said:

You do make a good point.

I disagree.

What happened to Obi-Wan and Yoda:

  • Jedi purge aided by Obi-Wan’s former apprentice now Darth Vader
  • Galactic Empire takes over the galaxy
  • Yoda and Obi-Wan face off against Sidious and Vader despite terrible odds
  • Yoda fights Sidious to a stalemate and is forced to flee, as troops arrive
  • Obi-Wan defeats Vader, leaving him for dead
  • Obi-Wan and Yoda are now hunted by the Empire, branded traitors with the approval of the Senate, and are forced into hiding
  • Obi-Wan and Yoda hide Luke and Leia
  • It takes twenty years for the Rebel Alliance to become a significant threat to the Empire’s powerbase
  • Leia asks Obi-Wan for help in their most desparate hour, Obi-Wan answers their call

What happened to Luke:

  • Luke’s Jedi Academy is destroyed by his former apprentice partly caused by Luke’s unfortunate mistake
  • New Republic controls most of the galaxy
  • FO is growing in power, but at this point still a fringe government
  • Despite the fact that there’s still plenty of opportunity to stop the FO with the help of the Resistance and the Republic fleet, Luke doesn’t even try, and goes into exile, leaving everything behind
  • In Luke’s absence the FO grows in power to the point, that it is able to destroy the Republic capital and take over the galaxy
  • Luke refuses to help even after his sister Leia through Rey informs him of their situation, and his best friend has been murdered

This right here. I don’t see how people even compare the 2 situations. Obi-Wan and Yoda literally did all they could. Luke did nothing.

That’s so right. But I wonder why DrDre was disagreeing with Warbler. I was making the same point and he was agreeing with me (I thought?).

Sorry, I probably just misread the reply. I agree with you both.

No problem! All your posts have been great in this thread, well thought out and I’ve agreed with just about everything you’ve said!

Post
#1150385
Topic
The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS **
Time

ray_afraid said:

Disney Ruined Star Wars said:

can you point out which rule I violated that deserved you to threaten me? I read through them…
2. I didn’t attack anyone.

Disney Ruined Star Wars said:

The people who defend these ST movies are no different than the people who defend the prequels. Mental gymnastics and totally ignoring the spirit of the original movies. But hey look it’s Darth Mual with his cool double bladed lightsaber. Er…I mean look it’s Porgs and Kylo Ren with a saber handle! It’s Star Wars duh!

That’s saying that the people who like this movie are stupid or lying to themselves. That’s a personal attack on that group.

Where did I say that? I said they are doing mental gymnastics with disingenuous arguments, one of which I cited. That meme (or whatever you call it) was not an honest rebuttal to the criticism that several posters share. I pointed out exactly why it wasn’t honest. That’s a problem? I suppose I could have qualified my statement and said “some people” as it’s not a criticism that applies to all people who like the movie. If so, sorry about that!

If people like a movie or don’t like a movie, cool. I think all opinions are valid. But if I see something I think is disingenuous or a poor/flawed argument I will point out the logical flaw if I can.

Post
#1150383
Topic
The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS **
Time

Mrebo said:

adywan said:

Mrebo said:

adywan said:

Mrebo said:

adywan said:

Mrebo said:

Warbler said:

Mocata said:

Warbler said:

I don’t recall Luke choking anyone in ROTJ

I thought he was using a Jedi mind trick there.

I agree with Warb. We know what it looks like if someone is choking and that wasn’t what happened in that scene. I have always read the scene as Luke convincing the GGs to go back to their posts and sleep, their hands on their chests in a restrained or passive position.

Really? Even with the guards grabbing their throats and making choking noises? He was obviously force choking.

Pig sounds and hands on chests. Also clear they are not pushed.

Choking sounds with them clutching their throats. It’s very clear choking sounds too and not pig like sound either. Watch the scene again and you’ll see how clear it is that Luke is force choking them. And, if you need more proof, then this is direct from the novel:

Luke raised his hand and pointed at them. Before they could draw their weapons they were clutching their own throats, choking, gasping.

It is an interesting piece of evidence, though it doesn’t accurately describe the scene in the film re the weapons. Another piece of evidence is the script which doesn’t appear to mention choking.

Can i ask you, did you watch the scene again (which clearly shows they are choking by not only their actions but the clear choking sound effects) or are you just going by memory?

First memory and then watched it. I do see how one could believe they are being choked. I think it is quite ambiguous. My perception of the scene coincidentally lines up with the description found in scripts found online. Maybe it changed in production and you are right. But I don’t think the nature of their pig grunts is quite so clear.

Luke force choked the guard just like his father force choked people in the previous movies. The difference was his dad liked those powers, and thought they made him stronger, and continued down the dark path as he lusted for power over other people. Luke was tempted to follow the same path but he chose the light side of the force. He wanted to be a good guy and help his family and friends and fight and sacrifice for a greater cause.

But in this movie, throw all that out the window I guess. /mad

Post
#1150381
Topic
The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS **
Time

Collipso said:

DrDre said:

Warbler said:

Possessed said:

You do make a good point.

I disagree.

What happened to Obi-Wan and Yoda:

  • Jedi purge aided by Obi-Wan’s former apprentice now Darth Vader
  • Galactic Empire takes over the galaxy
  • Yoda and Obi-Wan face off against Sidious and Vader despite terrible odds
  • Yoda fights Sidious to a stalemate and is forced to flee, as troops arrive
  • Obi-Wan defeats Vader, leaving him for dead
  • Obi-Wan and Yoda are now hunted by the Empire, branded traitors with the approval of the Senate, and are forced into hiding
  • Obi-Wan and Yoda hide Luke and Leia
  • It takes twenty years for the Rebel Alliance to become a significant threat to the Empire’s powerbase
  • Leia asks Obi-Wan for help in their most desparate hour, Obi-Wan answers their call

What happened to Luke:

  • Luke’s Jedi Academy is destroyed by his former apprentice partly caused by Luke’s unfortunate mistake
  • New Republic controls most of the galaxy
  • FO is growing in power, but at this point still a fringe government
  • Despite the fact that there’s still plenty of opportunity to stop the FO with the help of the Resistance and the Republic fleet, Luke doesn’t even try, and goes into exile, leaving everything behind
  • In Luke’s absence the FO grows in power to the point, that it is able to destroy the Republic capital and take over the galaxy
  • Luke refuses to help even after his sister Leia through Rey informs him of their situation, and his best friend has been murdered

This right here. I don’t see how people even compare the 2 situations. Obi-Wan and Yoda literally did all they could. Luke did nothing.

That’s so right. But I wonder why DrDre was disagreeing with Warbler. I was making the same point and he was agreeing with me (I thought?).

Post
#1150376
Topic
The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS **
Time

oojason said:

Disney Ruined Star Wars said:

Possessed said:

This meme or whatever you call it is dumb. Obi-Wan didn’t tell Luke: “hey you’re Dad was an asshole and the Jedi deserve to die.” Yoda never told Luke: “there is no dark side or light side. the jedi were arrogant and wrong”.

The people who defend these ST movies are no different than the people who defend the prequels. Mental gymnastics and totally ignoring the spirit of the original movies. But hey look it’s Darth Mual with his cool double bladed lightsaber. Er…I mean look it’s Porgs and Kylo Ren with a saber handle! It’s Star Wars duh!

If that is your attitude - then why are you here? To bait or antaognise those on here that do like these films? If so your stay here is going to be a short one.

Since I’m new here, can you point out which rule I violated that deserved you to threaten me? I read through them…

  1. My post was on topic about the movie and the franchise in general.
  2. I didn’t attack anyone.
  3. I didn’t use any profanity.
  4. I don’t have a signature.
  5. I didn’t make an image-only post.
  6. I did not harass anyone.
  7. I didn’t make any personal attacks, let alone the ones listed.
  8. I don’t have a sock account, I’m new here.

I can’t see any reason you would threaten me except you don’t like my point of view. I wasn’t aware that was against the rules.

Post
#1150364
Topic
The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS **
Time

oojason said:

Disney Ruined Star Wars said:

Possessed said:

This meme or whatever you call it is dumb. Obi-Wan didn’t tell Luke: “hey you’re Dad was an asshole and the Jedi deserve to die.” Yoda never told Luke: “there is no dark side or light side. the jedi were arrogant and wrong”.

The people who defend these ST movies are no different than the people who defend the prequels. Mental gymnastics and totally ignoring the spirit of the original movies. But hey look it’s Darth Mual with his cool double bladed lightsaber. Er…I mean look it’s Porgs and Kylo Ren with a saber handle! It’s Star Wars duh!

If that is your attitude - then why are you here? To bait or antaognise those on here that do like these films? If so your stay here is going to be a short one.

Excuse me, am I not allowed to post my thoughts on the movie? What did I do to violate the rules? Or you just disagree with me and my posts bother you so you’d rather silence them?

Warbler said:
This is also a good point.

It seems not everyone here shares your point of view (directed at oojason). Maybe you should consider that people have different points of view on these movies and all should be welcome. I didn’t tell you to stop posting because you like the movie.

Post
#1150338
Topic
The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS **
Time

Possessed said:

This meme or whatever you call it is dumb. Obi-Wan didn’t tell Luke: “hey you’re Dad was an asshole and the Jedi deserve to die.” Yoda never told Luke: “there is no dark side or light side. the jedi were arrogant and wrong”.

The people who defend these ST movies are no different than the people who defend the prequels. Mental gymnastics and totally ignoring the spirit of the original movies. But hey look it’s Darth Mual with his cool double bladed lightsaber. Er…I mean look it’s Porgs and Kylo Ren with a saber handle! It’s Star Wars duh!

Post
#1150236
Topic
The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS **
Time

SilverWook said:

Warbler said:

This:

was totally unnecessary and was only added to sell toys.

So was this, if you remember. 😉

These were criticized too. And they were done in 1980s style. Everything experiences inflation over time, so intrusive toy commercials are now 1000x more intrusive and annoying than they were when George first did them 34 years ago. 😉

Post
#1150235
Topic
The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS **
Time

Gaffer Tape said:

I’m really hoping they don’t kill Leia off. I want at least one of the big three to just be able to retire happily rather than dying for the cause. We’ve already had two die for the cause. I want Leia to have stepped back with her head held high, convinced she’s paid her dues for the cause, and ready to leave everything in the capable hands of the next generation. Then I want her to retire to the Star Wars equivalent of Risa and spend her remaining years being tended to by a hunky cabana boy.

They could easily say all of that in dialogue. =P

The Disney movies don’t count anyway. 😃

Post
#1149378
Topic
Last movie seen
Time

2046

Wong Kar Wai is a real filmmaker. I would suggest watching In the Mood for Love before seeing this one, because 2046 is kind of a sequel. It is the story of people who carry the scars of past loves with them and seek to relive those memories in the year 2046. There has never been a finer film devoted to the beauty of women, nor one that is more lyrical and moody and can be felt upon reflection more than this one.

Post
#1149372
Topic
The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS **
Time

Some things I will say in defense of this movie I otherwise hate:

I don’t think cut scenes should necessarily be used to evaluate films. The creative process involves following all kinds of ideas. Bad ones or ones that don’t work get cut out. Should we downvote ESB because George Lucas had them shoot a pointless 5 minute Wampa subplot? That said, there is more than enough evidence in the final cut of the movie itself to betray the filmmakers’ intentions- and it’s not good.

I also applaud them for making Rey not related to anyone else. The egalitarian ideal that anyone anywhere can become a Jedi, and that you don’t have to be related to a Skywalker or a Kenobi or some other past Jedi bloodline, is a noble one. So I would disagree with people who say it’s a flaw of the movie that Rey’s parents are ‘nobodies’.

All of that said, the criticisms of this film far far outweigh any deserved praise, but I did want to be fair in these two cases.