SilverWook said:
Wouldn’t it be easier to have a character in the sequel die when they were supposed to, rather than alter the date given in the original movie though? 😉
I don’t know, I’ve never seen the sequel. But a Google search tells me they wanted the character to die on New Year’s Eve specifically as part of the narrative, so the date had to be changed. Whatever.
People are also illegally selling Harmy’s work on Ebay. If that doesn’t prove there’s a market…
Look, I have no doubt that there is a market. In fact I’ve stated repeatedly that there is, that it would sell and that Disney would turn a profit on it. That’s not up for debate. Studios release decent restorations of archive films all the time with much more niche audiences. There’s no doubt this would dwarf them in sells. But that’s not the question. The question, from Disney’s perspective, is whether it’s worth bothering with until:
A. They have all the rights.
B. They are done milking their own, more lucrative new trilogy.
So like I and a few others here have said, 2020 looks like the new goalpost.
Wait what? He actually altered American Graffiti with CGI? I don’t recall seeing any gungans running around that movie. Looked pretty normal to me.
IIRC, the director’s cut also features extended/alternate/additional scenes not present in the theatrical version. I’ve never watched the theatrical version, though, so I don’t know how correct this is.
If that’s the only change then I’m absolutely fine with it. Sure it might be better for the sake of preservation to include the unaltered shot as an option, but if you’re really that interested you can see it right there. The lower shot is definitely vastly superior, CGI or not.
And as for extra scenes, well, I’ve never seen the theatrical so I can’t say for certain if they were detrimental or not. But if they were added in the late 70’s when George still had his marbles, and if they were originally only cut by the studio for time purposes because they didn’t trust George fully pre-SW as with THX, then I’m sure they’re fine.
I’ve only seen the movie once though. It was good but I would hardly say I’m a fan of it the way I am Star Wars, and clearly that is the case for most others. So even if there were significant changes, they would not attract as much attention or be as important to me or most other people.
If you type “unaltered” into Google, the first or second search suggestion is “unaltered Star Wars” so I guess a lot of people do want it. I don’t think it’s a fringe of people
I don’t see why that means anything. Just because comparatively more people are searching for unaltered Star Wars compared to unaltered… anything else, that doesn’t mean that the people seeking it out at all aren’t still a minority. There are not many other films that are in the same situation in which the unaltered versions are unavailable, let alone films with as big a fan base as Star Wars, let alone films with alterations as controversial. So yeah, it’s not surprising that is a common search term or that a number of people are interested, but it’s still a very small number relative to the wider Star Wars fan base. Even most of those who are aware of it don’t typically care about it that much compared to the users of this site.
Wait what? He actually altered American Graffiti with CGI? I don’t recall seeing any gungans running around that movie. Looked pretty normal to me.
crissrudd4554 said:
If they really wanna be smart they should include both versions. Either camp is gonna be angered that one is included and not the other so you lose sales right there. Having both at least guarantees a certain percentage of both camps will take a bite. Many SE fans are angered by the coloring of the current sets so having the same SE restored will interest them while the OUT people will finally have their wish.
Honest question: Is there such a thing as an SE “camp?” It seems to me that most either don’t know or care about the difference or prefer the OUT if they do. I’ve seen very few people actually straight-up defend the SEs as superior to the originals, save for a few of the TFN nuts I mentioned who would defend George if he released a 2 hour film of himself taking a shit. But I imagine you might be right in that while any SE fans out there are content now, they might be pissed if it is excluded from a re-release. The younglings who grew up on these films could therefore get to experience the same outrage we did. Or maybe they would just recognize the OUT as superior, who knows? Only one way to find out: Release it!
nightstalkerpoet said:
Casual movie fans almost always prefer a release with Theatrical and Director’s Cuts (which is far more accurate than the Special Edition moniker it has been given.) Two for the price of 1, awesome! I didn’t even know there were two versions, I gotta try it out.
Most of the time, casual movie fans don’t care or know the difference. In my experience if they even realize there are multiple cuts, they tend to just automatically assume the latest or “director’s” cut is better. Which, in fairness, it often is. Star Wars is a major exception.
I honestly don’t think George’s beating heart has jack shit to do with any of it, I doubt anyone cares about “not releasing the originals out of respect to him” and the idea some have floated that it might have been in the deal he signed with Disney is simply ludicrous.
Ultimately, I think the real enemy here is simply just apathy and indifference.
I felt the exact same way until now. But who the fuck knows anymore? Something is holding them back. I don’t think that’s the biggest factor but it could be a factor.
And as for apathy and indifference, well, yeah. That’s kind of my point. They don’t care enough to do it because they don’t see the reward as worth the effort. If every single Star Wars fan boycotted the next movie and any future releases until the OUT came out, then they would get off their asses and have it out faster than you can believe. But for the moment they have no reason to care. They know they are still going to bring home billions regardless, so they have much higher priorities as I said. Once they get those out of the way and farther down the list, once the “OMG NEW STAR WARS!!!” craze dies down and they have incidentally gained all the distribution rights they are going to get, only then may we see something.
DominicCobb said:
Well I suppose when you consider how incredibly massive the number of Star Wars fans there are they might be a minority, but yeah I’d say it’s still fairly sizable. Sure I doubt most are unaware of the alternatives and have no problem sucking up the SEs (though Harmy’s work has gained some decent notoriety through the web), but I’m sure a great many would be willing to fork over cash if the original versions were presented.
Oh I’m sure plenty of people would buy it. They would turn a profit. But when compared to all the other things they could focus on instead? It’s chump change. So they have to weigh the value of that change against:
So if I had to predict? It will either come out around 2020 as a tie-in to the newly completed sequel trilogy, likely again treated as bonus material, or it won’t come out until George is pushing daisies.
Whatever the case, it’s pretty clear now that it’s not coming this year.
I’m really not sure just how significant that number is. Even if it is fairly sizable, I’m sure it’s still a minority, and it still doesn’t stop most of them from actually buying and watching the movies. If they’re truly casual fans it’s highly unlikely they’re even aware there are alternatives on this site.
I don’t think we’ll hear anything about the OOT at Celebration. We can only hope that they will release it this year low key
I don’t think we’ll hear anything either. And I don’t think we have a hope that they will release it, not this year, not 2020, not ever 😦 Thousands of fans going batshit mental over the 40th anniversary of a movie no-one is allowed to see anymore is kinda sickening. Lucasfilm denegrates its own legacy every year this drags on, while all and sundry kiss the ass of the stubborn old bastard who keeps a tight grip on the franchise even after selling it off for billion$.
Here’s Tom with the weather… 😉
Well I don’t know if I’m completely giving up hope that it will ever be released, not even after George dies, but I will say that part of me does wonder if they realize that most of the people who actually care about this now are old-timers who don’t make up their core fan base anymore, therefore not making it worth it in their eyes. A ton of the fans now grew up with the SEs and the prequels, and even some of those who didn’t are George loyalists who stood by his vision all the way through. (Just look at TFN for plenty of examples.) So basically, you have these basic audiences, ranked from largest to smallest in size:
The last group is the oldest, the smallest, and is considerably worn down by now, as this thread and whole site shows. Many have completely given up hope for a release and turned to the Despecialized/35mm projects. Many others just don’t care much about Star Wars at all anymore, either because they were turned off by the SEs and prequels or because they simply grew out of it. And many more have just resigned themselves to the SEs.
Except for those who stopped being fans at all, most all of these have bought the official Blu-rays regardless. Hell that’s supposed to be a prerequisite for downloading this site’s projects. So it’s not like they’re losing a lot of money here. They’re much more concerned with the future and expanding their fan base, rather than appealing to the niche part of it that is slowly dying out (metaphorically and sadly even literally in some cases), and will only continue to with time.
So while I wouldn’t be totally surprised if they did release the OUT eventually, probably once they’ve gotten back all the rights and therefore can squeeze as much money as they can out of it, I also would not be surprised if:
A. It doesn’t come until after George croaks, or 2020 at the earliest.
B. It is treated as a nostalgic afterthought “bonus” like the GOUT was, hopefully just with more care, and is not extensively marketed.
I would like to be wrong, but at this point I doubt it. I was sure this would be it, this is the absolutely perfect time after all. 20 years without the SE, now 20 years with it… It would have been “like poetry.” Oh well.
Nobody is disputing that 04 onwards is worse than the 97
I will. 97 had a far worse looking Jabba and a far worse edit in the Greedo scene. Now they shoot at the same time and there is no terrible head dodge.
Also I like having Ian as the Emperor for the sake of consistency, even if it’s not perfect.
Jedi is the only one that was worse off in the later releases, due to Hayden and the NOOOOOO!!. But the first two are marginally superior in their 04/11 versions compared to the 97.
Pretty sure anyone who thinks that the 97 is somehow totally different from the later SEs and has more in common with the originals is just as blinded by nostalgia for those editions as they claim we are for the OUT.
At this point I don’t even care anymore. I’ve resigned myself to the fact that we probably aren’t going to see anything until George kicks the bucket. And as annoyed with him as I am for what he did to this franchise, I don’t wish that on him. I’ll probably have kids of my own old enough to watch the series by the time the OUT comes out, and by then it will probably be some holographic 8K virtual whatever, forget about Blu-ray. That’s fine. I’m just glad this site exists so I’m not stuck with laserdisc transfers in the meantime.
More likely he’ll be part of the next movie as rumored.
Or, you know, it could mean absolutely nothing except the fact he was an actor who played the main character in two Star Wars movies.
Uh, you know, I never excluded that possibility. I simply said that if it means anything at all, it’s more likely that it means that than anything about the OUT.
Jesus fucking Christ does EVERYONE have to be a jackass around here at all times? Is that a rule? Because if so I must have missed it. I’ll make sure to be a sarcastic prick every time I talk to everyone here from now on.
The convention panel really seems like a weird place to have a big announcement about the OT since it’s all about how everything is awesome, always has been, and restoring the OT is like admitting a mistake. (I’m still holding out hope for it to show up in some way, in some overpriced box set of “rarities” or whatever. Maybe they’d announce that during one of the merchandising panels)
Damn people here are being ridiculously negative. Granted, can’t blame anyone for being jaded after all this time. But I really think there is a very, very strong chance it’s finally happening this year. Have zero clue how Hayden being involved or anything changes that. More likely he’ll be part of the next movie as rumored.
And besides, your logic doesn’t really hold up - if everything is awesome and always has been, that would include the originals, no? And George changing them would be admitting a mistake. Simply putting them out again to honor and celebrate the 40th anniversary of the theatrical release would not be admitting a mistake at all, just giving the fans what they want. And unless it completely replaced the SEs and they were discontinued, it wouldn’t even be insulting George, who eventually released the GOUT himself. They don’t have to insult the SEs to release the OUT.
They have nothing to do with the fact that Marvel’s movies are to an extent formulaic, for instance. I mean seriously, what’s the prerogative for that?
Exactly the same as the reason McDonald’s food is the same everywhere: People like consuming the same shit over and over again. When you go into a Marvel movie, you know exactly what to expect. A lot of people like this. As for the business end, they found a formula that works so they’re going to keep using it until it stops working rather than deviate from it and potentially risk a bomb. It’s just basic business.
There’s literally no reason why a studio would want everyone of their movies to have the same plot, despite what many people here have convinced themselves.
You think only people here think this? That’s not the case, at all, but whatever. It’s just basic logic and business like I explained above.
If two Marvel films have similar plots it’s because of lazy writers (or ones with not enough time), it’s not because some devious studio exec walked into the writer’s room and said hey make sure to copy the plot note for note or whatever.
You’re trying to make it sound like some kind of conspiracy theory but it’s not. It’s just business strategy. It’s not some kind of secret or anything. They don’t literally stand over the shoulders of the writers, but in a number of ways they do ensure that the films do not stray too far from the formula. Big blockbusters cost shit loads of money, and the people investing that money want to make sure it will return a profit. So they go with the tried and true, in terms of the tone they set, who they hire to direct and write the script, post-production decisions, etc. These are assembly line films, essentially. It’s business more than it is art. Nothing inherently wrong with that, it’s just how it is.
All the studios have the same shit. Look at Fox’s recent and upcoming slate and you’ll find all the same stuff - sequels, reboots, adaptations, etc. You can cherry pick two recent “different” films to show their range, but you could just as easily point out X-Men: Apocalypse, one of the laziest superhero films I’ve seen recently that probably deserves the critique of “same old shit” more than any recent Marvel film; and then of course there’s Fant4stic which speaks for itself.
I didn’t say Disney was alone in this. They certainly aren’t. The DC shit for example is the same except it’s a ripoff of inferior quality, making it much worse. And yeah, Apocalypse sucks and I didn’t even see F4ntastic, but even going back as far as, say, X-Men First Class, I think they’ve on the whole done more different and interesting things with their blockbuster properties than Disney has with Marvel despite being hit-or-miss. I’ll take hit-or-miss with the hits being real gems over a higher batting average but everything is just OK and samey.
Disney’s obviously on a recent kick of remaking their animated classics because surprise! they make a lot of money. But they’re not all mindless fan service. Pete’s Dragon is very different from the original and also happened to be one of the best films last year.
Did I say I blamed them for doing this to make money? No, in fact I said the exact opposite. You’re arguing just to argue here. I also didn’t say it’s all mindless fan service. I said some of it can be fun, just tiresome after a while and not particularly original. Being original or not is not inherently good or bad. It just is. Something unique can suck, something derivative can be great. But if you do nothing but derivative stuff, even if it’s all pretty good, it melts together.
As for the stupid South Park member berry bullshit, I don’t know what to say but that yeah people like seeing things they like? There’s nothing wrong with nostalgia if done properly. Obviously sometimes it works better than others but the idea that ~nostalgia~ is this brain numbing intoxicant that studio execs mix up and spit out to the mindless masses is just tiresome.
I thought it was a pretty unique idea actually, not tiresome at all. Now the movies themselves, they’re tiresome.
Are you really not sick of remake after reboot after soft reboot after sequel after prequel and on and on it goes? You know they’re making a fucking Baywatch movie right? Baywatch. That’s a thing that will exist. They’re really scraping the bottom of the barrel now. No that’s not Disney; like I said they’re not the only offenders but they’re some of the worst. The occasional nostalgia flick is fine, but Hollywood’s fixation in recent years on practically nothing but either a member berry movie or a sequel to an ongoing franchise has grown beyond tiresome. Even if one of these movies is great and not just pointless and stupid like the majority of them are, it’s still just appealing to the lowest common denominator. It’s still potentially keeping an original film from being made in its place. It’s possible Star Wars would never have existed if in 1977 the studios followed the same play it safe mentality they do today, so Fox wouldn’t have taken a chance on George.
Basically, too long didn’t read version: ALL studios like using existing properties because they know people like them and will give moneys. The quality of the end product, however, is ultimately up to the filmmakers. If they can’t find a way to work with the nostalgia in a way that satisfies you, blame them.
Did I not say pretty much the exact same thing? Pretty sure I did. Though you are wrong as to how much control the filmmakers have. The production companies trust some with much more than others, and many are just yes men who see themselves as employees doing a job rather than auteurs making art. Others have gotten upset when the studio changes their vision. Don’t kid yourself into thinking it’s all on the filmmakers. The formula is specifically designed so that their films are indistinguishable from one another. Quick, without cheating, who directed Captain America: Civil War? You don’t know and you don’t care because it doesn’t matter. It’s a product first and a film second.
Walt Disney Pictures made Beauty and the Beast. Lucasfilm made TFA and RO. Walt Disney Studios distributed both. Maybe some day people will learn the difference (spoiler: they won’t).
You speak as though Disney’s overall strategy does not influence the direction of their subsidiary studios. Spoiler: It does.
He has a point that they do seem to be on a major member berry kick lately. Not a whole lot of original content coming out. Between the infinite Star Wars fan service films they have lined up, the Marvel movies that are just stale copies of one another, and recreating their own animated classics with live action and CGI, they are pretty clearly following a strict formula to appeal to as many people as possible and thereby make as much money as possible. Hard to fault a company for that, but it’s also ridiculous to deny that is in fact what they are doing. And it’s the opinion of myself and many others that, as successful as this lowest-common-denominator appeal to nostalgia is, and as fun as it can be for a while, it is ultimately detrimental creatively and artistically.
Fox took major risks that paid off with Deadpool and Logan, and that was a huge breath of fresh air for me. Those two are the first blockbusters I can recall seeing in quite a while that really stood out and drew me in. I literally fell asleep during Civil War. I’m just getting sick of the same old shit, movies with the same basic plots that run together so seamlessly that I can’t even remember which one is which. Disney really is becoming the McDonald’s of film. Everything is the same every time.
Honestly, it’s difficult to imagine too many anthology films I would love to see. Perhaps a Boba Fett film directed by Quentin Tarantino in which he hunts down an aged Mace Windu (who somehow survived his fall in ROTS)? I mean I didn’t exactly care for Mace Windu’s character, but with better script and direction from Tarantino of all people, Sam Jackson could make it work.
Ryan-SWI said:
FS can at times have more detail than its WS counterpart in the 4:3 area, as well as a few other technical uses.
That and I find it enjoyably nostalgic from time to time.
That means you should be locked up. After all, Frink has decreed it, and anybody who has different preferences or opinions from Frink for any reason is a moron.
TPM was at least shot on film, and didn’t have Yoda flying around like a monkey. That seals it for me.
Plus, the factory sequence. Which I would never remember, if not for RLM, since I only saw the POS once.
The fact that it was shot on film doesn’t really matter to me. If anything it just makes the poorly aged CGI stand out more. And Yoda flying around like a monkey is less offensive than kiddie Vader to me. The legacy of both characters from the originals is basically destroyed, but it’s far worse in the latter case as far as I’m concerned. At least the fact that Yoda was a “great warrior” leaves open the possibility that he fought like that; the Anakin in TPM was sure as fuck not the “best star pilot in the galaxy” described by Obi-Wan.
Also nothing in the factory sequence is any worse than the childish toilet humor prevalent throughout TPM. Humor is not literally derived from Jar Jar Binks stepping in shit.
I wanted to like this movie, I really did, but Rogue One was doomed for me almost from the start simply by virtue of the fact that it was a prequel. Almost without exception, I hate prequels. I know exactly how they are going to end, and the freedom of the writers to come up with a creative story is inherently limited because they have to find a way to build to that end. Plus they can almost never resist winking at the audience by having some character make some remark that is unnaturally prescient (“You’re going to be the death of me”), or forcing cameos and callbacks to the originals (Cantina guys in this movie). I call this stuff “member berry” stuff, and it annoys me. TFA, though a sequel, certainly had problems with it too–indeed South Park’s mockery of it is the namesake of “member berry”–but it wasn’t as direct or constant as it was in either this movie or Lucas’s prequels. More importantly, I did not know where the story was going because for the first time since 1983 the plot of a Star Wars movie was building to brand new events unknown to the viewers. The plot itself might have been “poetry” that rhymed with the original movie, but the end had me leaving the theater with questions and looking forward to seeing them answered.
Also, the characters were new, fresh, and interesting. The complete and total opposite of the characters in this film. Other than “Jyn Erso,” I cannot recall a single one’s name, and that’s only because she was the main character and certainly not because she was a good character. All the characters were pretty much underdeveloped and had no personality. The robot was the only one who was even a slight exception, and he was still basically just a stock character. They all were. They were cardboard cutouts, vehicles to forward the plot of the movie and then be disposed of at the end. The fact that we never related to them means that disposal has no impact when it comes and we’re just bored. When I’m yawning at the death of a movie’s main character, something has gone severely wrong.
The movie also was overly dark and self-serious, continuing a trend of “gritty” and “edgy” works in genres that are supposed to be pure escapism, popcorn fantasies. I hate this trend. But it worked for Logan, you know why? Because I cared about the characters. They were incredibly well-developed. It all comes back to that. Granted, I had 17 years to get to know Wolverine and Professor X, but even still if I was watching this movie for the first time I am pretty certain I would have been more invested in their fates than I was in any of Rogue One’s characters, as I was with the girl even though she was a new character.
Yeah, it was cool to watch Vader kick some ass at the end, but it meant nothing and was just another example of fan service. I genuinely enjoy watching Revenge of the Sith more; at least it has camp value in Palpatine’s portrayal and the “so bad it’s good” dialogue.
AOTC is much worse than TPM. Menace at least had the duel. Clones was blurry, spent too much time on a romance between actors with no chemistry and the climax was a giant CGI battle where both sides were robots. Yawn.
Really it’s arguing over which shit stinks worse. At the end of the day both are shit.
For me it all comes down to whether cringey love scenes or cringey child acting/Jar Jar bothers you more. Usually, I give the edge to the latter. The fact that TPM was the biggest letdown in cinematic history pushes it over the edge to be the absolute worst in my opinion. That it includes scenes of a toddler Darth Vader asking his future lover questions like “Are you an angel?”, shouting “Yippee!”, and accidentally blowing up a battle station with his “spinning” trick doesn’t help either. TPM arguably has a higher high in the duel, but there is nothing lower than that shit, and even the duel is ruined by the fact that it is inter-spliced with those terrible scenes, plus the Gungan battle on top of that. At least the CGI battle in AOTC somewhat impressed me at the time, and there wasn’t quite as much shit going on at once. I’ll also take angsty teenage Vader over annoying child Vader, though it’s close.
Revised rankings with Rogue One, excluding animated films, TV movies, holiday specials, and other shit like that:
Star Wars - The original, the one that introduced us all to this galaxy and the characters we love most, the only one that works as a standalone, the one with the most rewatch value, the most iconic of them all.
The Empire Strikes Back - Arguably a “better” film than the original technically speaking, only loses the edge because its position in the middle of the trilogy requires you watch both of the others to get the story, and while its “darkness” is in some respects a virtue, it also means it has less charm than the original.
Return of the Jedi - Ewoks are cringe when the focus is on them, but that is overblown (they have less screen time than people think) and the rest of the movie is great - the Jabba sequence is really fun and iconic, the space battle is awesome, and the Emperor scenes are the best of the entire series.
The Force Awakens - Yeah it’s a soft reboot, but it’s a fun soft reboot and it made me feel like a kid watching the originals again so it did its job, and I suspect it will seem better in hindsight as a necessary set-up for the sequels if they are done well. Characters are great too.
Revenge of the Sith - Lots of terrible dialogue but the story itself is not bad, essential even to understanding Vader, the only one of the prequels that really does its job in this regard, and Palpatine is incredible in this movie.
Rogue One - I fell asleep in the theater watching this movie the first time. That’s how boring the whole first hour or so is. Lots of fan service and “member berry” moments (more than TFA), unsettling CGI people, tries too hard to be edgy and “grimdark,” and the characters are terrible, unmemorable, and unrelatable. Plus the soundtrack is by far the worst of the series. (No John Williams in Star Wars is sacrilege.) Still, seeing Vader kick some ass again was nice I guess, and helped recover his reputation a little bit from the whiny emo of the prequels.
Attack of the Clones - The love story is arguably the worst ever put on screen, most of the rest is a boring mess, and the CGI action sequences that were the only things that gave the movie any redeeming value whatsoever have aged terribly. The only thing that makes it better than TPM is that at least it felt like it was made for the teenage crowd rather than the under 10 crowd - no Jar Jar or little kids.
The Phantom Menace - Lots of Jar Jar and little kids, incredibly fucking boring basically all the time, CGI has aged terribly, horrible childish potty humor, the plot makes no sense whatsoever, and it isn’t even essential to the plot of the rest of the series and so might as well not even exist (which is why it is axed in the machete order). The only good thing that came out of it is “Duel of the Fates,” and by that I refer more to the music than the duel itself. Darth Maul isn’t even a good villain; he is all style and no substance.
I wish I could be optimistic about this, but because the UOT on Blu-ray or UHD is something that this world needs, I just think it won’t happen for that reason. We’re destined to be disappointed.
And I thought I had a pessimistic worldview.
It would almost be like releasing them on Laserdisc. The technology is that obsolete now. The last 3D TV manufacturers are ceasing production this year. Consider that the last VCR manufacturer ceased production just last year, and it will be apparent how much of a massive failure this technology was. It seems like it would be commercial suicide for Disney to release 3D Blu-rays of the prequels, considering almost no one would buy them both because the movies are the least popular Star Wars movies, and because no one has a 3D TV. I can’t imagine a less successful Star Wars product for Disney to release short of actually releasing the prequels on Laserdisc. In both cases they would be appealing to tiny niche markets who still use a home theater technology that is no longer in production, so why not?
I will be especially pissed if we actually do get this but DON’T get the OUT. It would seriously make me question whether or not Disney does in fact want money, which is pretty insane.
