Darth Tater

Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda said:

I never noticed it before... but what is that big green blob behind his head?

Mike Verta has a shot from a different angle in his References thread. It's a strange decoration on the wall behind him, maybe ceramic? Almost looks black in that photo.

Due to Mike's wishes, I won't link, but it's there to see if you're a member.

-DT

Holy crap, that's awesome! Nice work, You_Too!

-DT

Harmy said:

"...it could take a few weeks for everything to come through, making me unable to work on the edit properly..."

Well, that certainly is unfortunate. I know what it's like to be full steam on a project you care about and get held up by outside circumstances.

Don't feel like you have any pressure from this side, though. We'll be here whenever you're able to get it finished, and we'll be grateful whenever it finally gets here. In the mean time, we can keep enjoying 1.0, which is certainly better than anything we've had before! :) You're still doing great work, and we appreciate it.

Now, about that 14 seconds you added...

That's a joke. :) Take care.

-DT

bspaunhorst said:

To be honest, (with the exception of the first one) I think they all look great.  The only way I even noticed it, was because I was specifically looking for it.  If this was just thrown in with the rest of the movie, I would not think twice about it!  

IF I had to choose, I would go with 3b.

Keep up the awesome work!

This goes for me as well. 90% of the small changes I only notice because we start talking about them, this one included.

Also, no hard feelings, Harmy. Take care of yourself. Hope whatever's wrong is nothing serious.

@Midnight_Trooper:

Harmy said:

[...] Now I tried to fill in the moving parts from GOUT but it was just too jarring [...]

Here.

Is that what you meant, or something more/different?

Harmy said:

Guys, are you out of you minds? [...] the only explanation is that the timings of the chapters got somehow shifted when you ripped them DT. 

And cutting audio is absolutely different from the selling speeder scene, where the only difference is the colour of the sky.

Ok, calm down, man. lol I'm on your side here. :)

I just opened dark_jedi's GOUTv3 in VLC, and it looks like it is playing at ~60fps, slightly faster than yours if I understand it (~24 fps, but VLC reports it at ~48fps), which would account for the difference. It would also explain why I was able to apply a uniform change to the chapter times (multiply all chapter times by the same number) to get the right chapters. Let me know if you concur.

So, knowing that, now I see your point about the soundtrack. I was just misinterpreting the evidence I was seeing (the timestamps). Also, I do notice the Han frames in 1.0. I was just offering a suggestion based on my understanding of what was happening. Again, not criticisms, just observations.

I have said several times that I am confident you will come up with the right solution, and I stand by it. Take it easy, man. I am a walking commercial for your work, and I anything I say is only in an attempt to be helpful.

-DT

doubleofive said:

Sorry, I got all emotional. It's terrible that we have to have these fights instead of actually having the versions we grew up with officially release in different versions.

Do not worry about it at all. We are all here for the same purpose, and like I said, at the root of that purpose is emotions. I'm just glad to encounter a group of people with the same goal and Harmy with the means, talent, and time to do it.

I wasn't offended, and I enjoy civil discussions, even when we disagree. I am relatively new here, though I have lurked a long time, and I like talking with you, Harmy, and others that have been around a while and learning more about this project and others.

In fact, the community effort has made the results better. I just feel for Harmy, who has to (chooses to) go through all this discussion, decide what's important, and then figure out how to do it. Hats off to you, bud!

-DT

doubleofive,

Respectfully, I wouldn't say that it's completely different, but that's just my point of view. What I mean is, in both instances, the goal is to overcome the SE in the most natural way possible. I interpret the objective you discuss (when you say "what I feel this project is") as a technical one, to completely match the OT, shot by shot, as closely as possible. My only point would be that what inspired this project in the first place was emotions. Emotions that were formed watching the OT, and emotions that were formed by watching the SE changes upon that OT.

To me, the feel the final product has is every bit as important as the technical side, and the satisfaction in watching it comes from how natural it is in it's attempt to recreate the OT. The SE changes were so offensive because they were obvious, out of place, and unnecessary. Honestly, the slow motion frames in the proposed clips have the same effect on me. But, like you, I am absolutely confident in Harmy's judgement to find the right compromise between the technique and feel, and am not worried about it.

I know others have different points of view built from their own experiences, which it is not my place to argue with. I can only share mine and how I understand them. I don't mean to get too much ruckus going over a minor detail which I am sure will be just fine in the end.

-DT

doubleofive said:

 

OMEN!-_-! said:

I know Harmy is trying to recreate these films exactly as they were theatrically but I have to agree with Darth Tater (cool name/avatar btw) on this, they are all pretty noticable, though like others here have said, method 1 is definately the most obvious and jarring. I think it might be worth compromising here and cutting those missing frames and that part of the audio where the missing frames are to not disrupt the flow of what is a very cool/iconic scene for Han Solo. Another option of course would be to take the whole final shot of Han before he shoots Greedo from the GOUT rather than just the few missing frames, that would certainly be less jarring than changing between two sources of differing quality in the same shot.

I'd rather have the slow motion frames at the beginning than removing the "yes". More fans will notice the "yes" being gone than the strange frames.

 

I agree, and I don't even think this would be necessary. I just broke out the SE DVD, and the whole scene seems fine (until Greedo shoots, of course). There is a camera cut right before Greedo shoots, so splicing it back to where Han shoots alone seems relatively simple, as is it already done in v1.0. In the SE, Han already says, "Yes, I bet you have," and there is no noticable cut in frames (to my untrained eyes).

My point was to consider possibly not altering it at all beyond restoring the subtitles, as it is pretty clean as is with minimal tinkering from GL, and the added frames are more noticeable than their absence, which, IMHO, defeats the intention.

After all, the biggest compliment I can give the DE is that it makes me feel like I am watching the OT, meaning that the SE elements are concealed very well in ways that look very natural, even if they are not 100% accurate. Like the new matte in the scene where they sell the speeder. It is not 100% accurate, but it is done well enough that no one will complain because it establishes the goal of concealing the SE elements in a way that is close enough to the original that it goes by naturally. I think the added frames do not do this as effectively.

Just my way of thinking, though, so take it FWIW. I am confident in Harmy's judgement on such things.

-DT

msycamore, thanks for the detailed answer. I am little confused by something. Earlier up, you said "I didn't try to match the theatrical placement on my Technidisc," which I took to mean that you had added them, but more recently you said that they are the originals. Could you elaborate a bit on this?

PM is fine to not take up too much of Harmy's thread.

Hal 9000 said:

Then it wouldn't be in sync with the GOUT.

Actually, it is already quite out of sync with the GOUT, hence why I created the updated chapter times.

Some links to what I'm talking about:

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Harmys-STAR-WARS-Despecialized-Edition-HD-AVCHD-DVD9-and-NTSC-DVD5-AVAILABLE-see-1st-post/post/550205/#TopicPost550205

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Harmys-STAR-WARS-Despecialized-Edition-HD-AVCHD-DVD9-and-NTSC-DVD5-AVAILABLE-see-1st-post/post/550295/#TopicPost550295

In dark_jedi's GOUTv3, the last chapter begins at around 1:55:26, but Harmy's starts at 1:55:34. So, there are about 14 seconds of frames here and there that add up over the course of the movie. So, in theory, by adding frames, it is becoming more out of sync with the GOUT.

But, as the movie goes by, it really isn't noticable. IMHO, syncing 100% with the GOUT isn't as important as the perception it syncs, that is, making any changes as imperceptible as possible.

-DT

Harmy said:

tell me which one works best/is the least jarring

Man, Harmy, I hate to say it, but they are all pretty noticeable.

Pardon my ignorance, but do you think it might be better not to insert the frames? I know it might sound like sacrilege, but wouldn't a few missing frames that don't affect the shot be better than an obvious adjustment?

Not criticism, just curiosity.

-DT

Thanks for the info, msycamore. I thought the Telecine subs were original.

I came across Franklin Gothic Book the other day when trying to clean up the "long time ago" for the covers I'm working on. I didn't like my digitized version, and Harmy's new 5-min preview rendered it moot because it was much sharper, but I realized that's what they must have done for the Prequels. I lined up every word individually, and, like yours, it was darn close, but just anemic compared to the original, like it appears in those "other" movies. :P

I like finding out these little bits of info about the different processes. Speaking of, does anybody know somewhere I can find out how they did the original subs, titles, and such back in '77? Curious how things like that got made in the pre-digital age.

Oh, and here's the same screen from the Puggo Grande for reference. Harmy, looks like your thicker font is closer to original. I, too, do not notice any fade in and out, though, even on this version. (But, as always, this is just info; I trust your judgement. :) )

Greedo (Puggo Grande): http://i.imgur.com/lPVTD.png

Hope this helps,

DT

After a little comparison, I think OMEN may be onto something with both the colors and subtitles in this scene. I'm no expert on this, and I don't know what your baseline is, Harmy, but I checked your proposed version against the dark_jedi's GOUTv3 and mysycamore's Technidisc versions, and Greedo's eyes are overall more blue in their versions (which is how I remember them) and his skin less green. The subtitle font is the same, but maybe a less bold version. It looks like Franklin Gothic Book off-hand (was just trying to match it to the "A long time ago..." screen a few days ago), but I think the weight is too heavy in the new version, like a bold instead of a semi-bold or regular. Also, there is a frame of fade in and out with each subtitle that is very noticeable in the new clip, but I do not see it in the mysycamore or dark_jedi versions.

Compare these, for example:

DJ GOUTv3: http://i.imgur.com/WeMtn.png

mysycamore Technidisc: http://i.imgur.com/z0xWo.png

New Harmy clip: http://i.imgur.com/TYZat.png

Harmy fade out: http://i.imgur.com/3sTbX.png

Now, these things may be all intentional, and I've learned a lot lately about various sources being very different from one another. I am just a casual observer and new to this, but these are just some things I noticed after checking out OMEN's post that you may be interested in.

Take it FWIW, and as always, whatever becomes of it, I am grateful for all of your work, Harmy.

-DT

How does this green light/blue light thing happen in the first place? I mean, in the last pic You_Too posted, the colors look spot on (to me) and very realistic, and the lights are very obviously blue. If the lights were green IRL, then how do they come out blue when all other colors are right? Is it because the film had a natural tint to it or something along those lines? Seems like an interesting phenomenon to me, and I'd like to know more about it. Sorry if this was covered earlier.

-DT

Harmy,

In the latest duel clip, there is a brief section at 1m09s where Vader's lights are still blue (Vader says "You should not have come back."). I know you've gone to some trouble over this, so I thought you might want to know before going final.

Both new clips look spectacular otherwise. Great work as usual.

-DT

The latest preview link appears to be broken, Harmy. MU says the file is temporarily unavailable.

The others look very good, though! Nice work!

-Darth T.

Neato. I was just curious. I'm too new to the restoration aspect to have input on what is "right" regarding color balance; I'm just enjoying observing your process. I'm sure it will turn out great.

Thanks for being so open for questions. Carry on. :)

-DT

Hey, green lights! :) Love your attention to detail, Harmy.

The color balance looks quite a bit warmer here than in 1.0. Is that by design or is there still adjustment to be made? I'm not sure which is more "correct" in regard to your sources. Either way, I'm excited, and it's looking great.

Take care,

Darth T.

Harmy said:

...Thanks to Troyig88's  generosity, there will only be a little delay, that's all!...

Awesome news! Thanks, Troyig88!

-Darth T.

Adium said:

Yeah no problem George.

HA! I thought the exact same thing the other day when I was adjusting pictures and such for the back of my set.

"OK, just a little brighter on this one. Oh, that text is too blurry, better recreate it digitally... Oh, god... This is how it starts... I've become-- him. /shudder" lol

I guess the difference is I thought better of it and stopped myself, you know, before I got to the adding "a cartoon rabbit who steps in poop" stage, to quote RedLetterMedia :D.

Sorry to bump such an old thread, but I have been search all over for the font on this box, and I finally found something very close, which I thought others may find helpful. Also, I was just super excited and wanted to share. :D

Looks like it is primarily Baucher Gothic Medium Alternatives, while the first W just is Baucher Gothic Medium (non-alternative version), but flipped horizontally.

http://new.myfonts.com/fonts/urw/baucher-gothic/

Another super cool thing about this: If found this through MyFonts.com's "What The Font" service, which I had and awesome experience with. Upload an image of the font (I cut one from a .png of the laserdisc trilogy logo I had). Then, the tool identifies letters automatically, asks you to correct any mistakenly identified characters, and searches the database for matches. If it can't find one, you can then choose to submit it to the forum if you are a member (free), and people look it up and help you ID it. I had an answer within 2 hours.

Here's my query:

http://new.myfonts.com/WhatTheFont/forum/case/428108/

And the WTFont tool page:

http://new.myfonts.com/WhatTheFont/

Hope this helps someone else!

-Darth T.

Asaki said:

You_Too said:

...I think my first thought when I saw this scene in 97 was "Jabba can move?" :)

I think my first thought was "Wait a minute...didn't he just have this exact same conversation with Greedo not more than two minutes ago??" =|

I thought both of these exact thoughts, then I thought just thought, "Why?"

For 14 years.

Hey, folks.

Here are the GOUT DVD-timed chapter files adjusted to fit Harmy's v1.0 trilogy. Originally made these for personal use, but then I figured Harmy and others may find them useful, so here they are.

These files will line up the chapters in the SW DEs with those in the GOUT DVDs so you can skip between the scenes instead of 5-minute intervals. Instructions for use are included.

Let me know if you have any trouble with them!

http://www.multiupload.com/34J0U2SOUN

-Darth T.

OK, PM sent.

BTW, I skipped all the chapters in SW, and noticed they got progressively very marginally further behind using the default values. They were only about 5 seconds off by the end. Not too bad actually, but I'm picky, so I wrote an Excel spreadsheet that calculates the difference factor and makes a new list of adjusted timestamps that I can paste into the conversion program (TSMuxer) that writes the new playlist file. SW is converting now, so if it works, I should be able to plug in the run times for the other two and get it right the first time. :)

Gimme about an hour.

-Darth T.