Chewielewis

rlaphoenix said:

Chewielewis said:

Bloody hell thats impressive, I had been thinking of using ML to detect the frames, but if they can do that good a job of fixing them i might have to give that a go. Im very keen to hear your process

Hi, I thought I had found you on Discord that day I posted that. I guess not? However, do you have a Discord so we could discuss?

Yes, you can find me on the Original Trilogy Discord under this username

Bloody hell thats impressive, I had been thinking of using ML to detect the frames, but if they can do that good a job of fixing them i might have to give that a go. Im very keen to hear your process

I’d rather watch the before.

The problem I have with these sorts of remasters is that they don’t do the images any favors.

The source looks like an honest representation of the material, soft, low contrast, hazy, but believable. It’s what we expect from 50 year old analogue images.

But the processing delivers a fiercely digital image full of distracting artifacts. The AI turns soft fuzzy shapes into hard wobbly shapes while the sharpening flattens the image by making the background as sharp as the foreground, discarding any impression of depth. Also the color grading makes it uncomfortably high contrast. Essentially its “unnatural”.

In theory AI scaling should make great looking images, but in practice, it’s just polishing a turd. Taking something that was fine to begin with, and dressing it up till the real image behind it is obscured. In the before pic all I see is C3P0 and R2D2 on the death star in 1977, in the after pic all I see is image processing.

I think you can probably find a happy medium where the image looks ok on a big screen, but still looks pretty much like VHS. But to me, everything done here to make it look “better” just makes it worse.

Yeah these are great

Ooof that DNR is insane

Is this the first time anyone has captured the fullscreen VHS? It looks very much the same as the end of this american VHS here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aT7TVUoa5Y

I think we need a reality check before we make anymore threads. The number of 35mm scans out in the wild is tiny, maybe 20-30, and the scans that do exsist are rather poor color references, also any in theatre recordings will also be very poor color referrences, even theatre cams shot today do not give accurate color references, let alone anything shot in 1993.

I also think we need to chill out about things “not looking like the theatrical version”.

Every o-neg sourced Bluray or 4K scan has to be regraded from the ground up. shot by shot. These films were originally color timed optically (each frame exposed to a new negative using different intensities of red, blue and green lights) and will look different when graded using modern digital grading. Sometimes these new grades can look bluer or yellower or redder than previous releasees, but its not always clear if this is more or less like a theatrical print. But it is usually to make a film feel more visually and tonally cohesive.

Now granted there are some films that go too far with their regrading, The fellowship of the ring EE bluray, the matrix Bluray, Star Wars DVD. These films are a new creative interpretation of the material, supervised by the directors or the DP.

As far as Forrest Gump goes, Id hardly call it a green tint. The film looks different to the previous Bluray release and I’d probably call that one too red and too contrasty. But the teal is very subtitle and feels tonally consistent. https://caps-a-holic.com/c.php?a=1&x=427&y=253&d1=13321&d2=11966&s1=133231&s2=118095&l=0&i=11&go=1

But you should just watch it, any color bias in the picture will be neutralised by your own eyes, your eyes are fantastic at balancing color, especially between cool and warm tones.

I just watched it and it looked fantatsic, not blue at all. A little black crush in a few scenes but otherwise very nice. Fantastically well shot film.

I don’t know if Id call it a dark blue tint over the entire movie. Certain scenes are a lot bluer that in other releases but other scenes, well lit ones, are very warm with well saturated skin tones. Its a much more selective dynamic grade than simply blanketing the whole thing in one color (FOTR style).

Here are some screenshots

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php?p=18640581&postcount=91

You can see that there is a lot of blue in these scenes but only when appropriate, other scenes are perfectly neutral or warmer. This matches up with my recollection of the film in cinemas. Dark and moody.

These 4:3 clips below probably come from the first Home media release, struck for both the VHS and the DVD release Dec 8 1998

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVAhhVrpkwM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cku1N8eCUlo

Remember that home media transfers from this era are taken from low contrast interpositives rather than release prints. What you see here is not exactly a representative of the theatrical grade.

Can’t say I like the look of the Uprezzed version. There is actual detail being lost there. I can’t say there’s anything truly wrong with how the DVD source looks. Soft and noisy sure, but it looks real.

Dek Rollins said:

Chewielewis said:

James76 said:

Chewielewis said:

I see projects like this and its a real shame they always deinterlace down to 30fps rather than 60fps.

Huh. I didn’t think of converting it to 60fps. I kept it at 30fps. I’ll make a 60fps version with Adobe Premiere Pro CC.

JEDIT: 60fps version created! Now I need to upload it on MEGA.NZ.

Thats no good if you are working from an already deinterlaced source. The original Youtube poster should have done that with the original tape otherwise that second field is lost permanenetly. Doing a false 60fps upscale is possible worse.

I’m not super knowledgeable about interlacing, but I thought deinterlacing involved combining both fields together, as they would originally alternate. How does that ‘lose’ the second field?

Not exactly, Deinterlacing takes one field and uses a process to fill in the other field to make a whole frame. If you do that with every even field you get 30fps, if you do it with both the even and the odd field you get 60fps.

James76 said:

Chewielewis said:

I see projects like this and its a real shame they always deinterlace down to 30fps rather than 60fps.

Huh. I didn’t think of converting it to 60fps. I kept it at 30fps. I’ll make a 60fps version with Adobe Premiere Pro CC.

JEDIT: 60fps version created! Now I need to upload it on MEGA.NZ.

Thats no good if you are working from an already deinterlaced source. The original Youtube poster should have done that with the original tape otherwise that second field is lost permanenetly. Doing a false 60fps upscale is possible worse.

I see projects like this and its a real shame they always deinterlace down to 30fps rather than 60fps. having the higher bit rate can really improve the perceived image quality. Its like they’re throwing half the image away.

No Crowdfunding

Well thats us out

Ronster said:

Centurion said:

Ronster said:

Wait for Blu ray next year…

I really doubt the colours on the blu will be different from the UHD disc. They seem to be stylistic choices by Peter Jackson, and there isn’t any huge backlash because, all in all, they are an improvement over the old blu’s.

Yeah but then you wont have to convert the HDR to SDR assuming that is another hurdle may aswell wait for the SDR Blu… Atleast that is what I meant and it will have more detail still in the majority of parts but perhaps not all especially the scrubbed scenes which is the point right?

No The new BRs will be downscales and conversions of the new 4K HDR master.

It will be the same, just downsampled from the new 4K master.

WXM said:
https://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/8656

Ooof that is horrendous, and an extreme example of the filtering im seeing throughout the screencaps. The problem with something like this is it almost flattens the image, removing the depth of field.

Also a tonne of sharpening going on, not sure what it looks like in motion but a lot of these Composites have some heavy sharpening which im not too fond of. Soft details becoming hard details.

Two towers is full of that early 2000s push everything to blue or green style of digital color grading, and im not surprised that 20 years later they’ve decided not to recreate it. These regraded shots are arguably much better.

A shot like this is interesting

https://caps-a-holic.com/c.php?go=1&a=0&d1=5242&d2=15008&s1=48974&s2=156553&i=13&l=0

A lot of blue missing there

Other shots seem to keep the tone of the shot intact whist removing the blanket tint.

https://caps-a-holic.com/c.php?a=1&x=499&y=250&d1=15008&d2=5242&s1=156545&s2=48966&l=0&i=5&go=1

ROTK has a lot less big color washes. I havent had the chance to sit down and watch, im interested to see what their day to night grade looks in that scene where merry find pippin under the oiliphant. Looked terrible on Bluray. Also the horrendous shot of the gang meeting the pirate ships.

Im casting doubt on them doing 4K re-renders. At best it will be 4K recompositing for shots that are simple composites. I doubt they will be re-rendering any complex CGI.

I saw ESB and ROTJ recently in cinemas, 2011 master, still a good watch. ROTJ looked like garbage during the early Endor scenes.

Star Wars comming up soon, out of order due to covid cancelling its earlier screening.

I think its fair to say that a home release closely matching a release 35mm print is the exception rather than the norm.

Keep in mind there is fill in artefacts on both the left and right eye of the 3D version. You may want to look for a HDTV version which is 16:9 but without artefacts. There is a HDTV which is an earlier Telecine which matches the DVD version and a 2012 HDTV which has the bluray scan (and color grade).

Have you considered a double TFM process.

Split the video into two TFM streams, one for upper fields, one for lower fields and then combine them to make a 59.94P stream. Any remaining combed frames will be taken care of by the TFM process.

It’s what i use in my simpsons project to deal with cadence breaks and 60i effects.

It was this logo btw