If we didn't love it, we wouldn't be trying to save it. Look at those callous bastards over at TFN, they seem completely indifferent to or excited about the demise of Star Wars. I'm not actually sure I've read a single post here from someone who appears to hate Star Wars. Are you sure you're on the right forum?
Harmy said:
So if someone has some crazy suggestion they want to see done, now's probably a good time ;-)
PG ratings thingie after the credits (like Jedi).
I remember paying to see something that looked suspiciously like the Despecialized Editions a few decades ago, but that guy is probably long gone by now...
I'm not interested in that for the main project, but if you want to post download links for mono mix subs in this thread for interested people, go ahead.
EDIT: Er, actually check the thread rule stickies first. Maybe don't link anything directly from here. But you can provide info here if you like.
I've already made sure Harmy has the Portuguese dub ;)
Although I didn't list it explicitly, improved Portuguese subs for ESB and ROTJ is another reason I would update these files, because I'm less confident about these.
silverwheel said:
CatBus said:
EDIT: This means that IMO fan edits are EXACTLY the same as the Special Editions, by every moral measure except fraud.
Considering that Lucas didn't direct ESB or ROTJ, I would argue that those Special Editions are rather morally questionable...
Well that's the fraud part, and Star Wars doesn't get off the hook either. Fans can edit ESB or ROTJ and there's no problem with that because they don't claim to be the real thing. If Lucas didn't pretend that the edited version was the real thing, there'd be no fraud on his end either.
thecolorsblend said:
This is about an artist's moral right to not have his/her work tampered with.
And what I'm saying, perhaps too obliquely, is that the only way an artist can actually achieve that is to never let anyone else see their art. Tampering through interpretation happens the second another human eyeball sees it. Tampering through more direct means (editing, co-authorship) happens with such pedestrian regularity that most don't even consider it tampering most of the time. If an artist has the moral right to not have their work tampered with, it is very much like the right for men to give birth to babies a la Life of Brian. Yeah they've got the right but it never happens.
If you put a work out in the public space, it will be parroted, parodied, sampled, remixed, etc. If you're lucky, because that means it has meaning to someone else. As long as it's not some sort of attempt to fraudulently pass something off as the original, I've got no problem there. You can even parody it yourself twenty years later, just don't pass it off as the original.
EDIT: This means that IMO fan edits are EXACTLY the same as the Special Editions, by every moral measure except fraud (except that there's the special case for Star Wars of it being just rude to fan edit what may someday be a lost film). They only differ in quality.
Sure, and history is full of authors who died 95% of the way through a book, etc, having their work completed by a relative or someone hired by the publisher, spurring raging debates over author's intent, etc.
I hate to get all post-modernist on this thread, but the whole idea of authorship in art is much less relevant than people give it credit for. The meaning of a work to society is frequently not what the author or authors or executive producers or publishers intended it to be. And who's right when there's a disagreement between the creator and society? IMO the readers, viewers, fans, etc, are always right. It's society who gives a work its real meaning, which is how the meaning of a work can change over time, and successfully become timeless... or fail to do so.
So it doesn't MATTER who edited what when and for what reason, really. What matters is that a big chunk of society saw this hodgepodge collective work and fell in love, probably for hundreds of completely different reasons. And it became a cultural force of its own at that point.
And that's what's important, the cultural impact, and that's what we're trying to preserve. All the discussion about author's intent and definitive versions and crap is beside the point. Not that we can't have opinions on those, naturally.
Fan edits aren't a "retelling" in that same sense though. They're an edit of a largely intact, existing story. They're more like a bowdlerized edition of Romeo and Juliet than West Side Story. And frankly reading a bowdlerized version of Romeo and Juliet before reading the original is something I CAN place a moral value on.
And I enjoyed having the opportunity to use the word "bowdlerized", thank you.
Luke Skywalker: Crispin Bonham-Carter
Princess Leia: Jennifer Ehle
Han Solo: Colin Firth
Obi-Wan Kenobi: Benjamin Whitrow
Darth Vader: David Bamber
Lando Calrissian: Adrian Lukis
Let the head-scratching begin!
none said:
Getting the phuck out then and going over to the 'Head of the Class' with Order66 shake up casting!
Dennis Blunden as Lando Calrissian
Arvid Engen as The Emperor
Kimberly Russell as Luke Skywalker
Simone Foster as Han Solo
Carlie Moore as Yoda
and that's right Theola June 'T.J.' Jones as Mace Windu
and Tannis Vallely as Darth Vader
affectively rebooted.
The future's so bright, I gotta wear a blast helmet...
walking_carpet said:
this is looking more and more like a green hornet one and done
The Star Wars juggernaut no longer has the capacity to recognize failure, even retroactively. My personal prediction is that this 3D rehash will be the world's slowest and most predictable train wreck for the next several years, and afterwards, the usual suspects will deem it to be a success by measuring against whatever goalposts they manage to have constructed by then.
Yep, this is just the equivalent of a drunk guy at a party trying to make the Star Wars fan mad because it's fun. The arguments are neither cogent nor consistent. That is not the point.
Gotcha. And I only noticed when someone pointed it out in advance ;)
That is good news. Also, for the "missing frame" is it possible that the AviSynth "flow" solution you used for the cantina could be used to take it from "barely noticeable" to totally unnoticeable? I haven't seen the corrected frames so I'm not sure how good it looks now.
Baronlando said:
I have to admit I have no idea what "turning to the dark side" even means now. I guess it doesn't happen until you change your name or something.
While the content of the PT waters down the meaning of the phrase "turning to the dark side" to the point of meaninglessness, they are, themselves, an object lesson in exactly what it means. So what he said was true, from a certain point of view.
zombie84 said:
Eddie Murphy: entire cast.
Yes! Except the kid from the Golden Child shows up as Yoda.
generalfrevious said:
I would boycott the BDs, because the OOT is not on there (which should be a no brainer). If there was a good fan preservation on Blu, I would probably get it; but has anyone made one. The GOUT is not presentable, yes, but they will have to do. But that's not the point.
The problem is Lucas. That is why I am so angry and melodramatic here, because he is an untalented hack who took credit from others, and is arrogant to the point that we have to resort to fan preservations to see the originals. I should be able to get the OOT at my local BestBuy or Amazon right now, like every single film ever made since 1895. The SW trilogy are the only films we don't have legally, because of one man's psychosis.
The point I guess I'm trying to make is that you can separate the moral issues of Lucas-is-bad from the practical issues of can't-get-OOT-must-despair. Frankly you can already get the OOT in better quality than the GOUT--that's a given, right now. IMO opinion you can already get unquestionably-better-than-GOUT Empire in HD (AVCHD, not Blu Ray unless you remux it), and pretty soon you'll have the option for unquestionably-better-than-GOUT-and-pretty-much-Blu-Ray-equivalent Star Wars. Blu Ray equivalency in the OOT from non-official sources is inevitable as far as I'm concerned.
Which doesn't mean Lucas suddenly isn't a bad guy anymore. It just means he gets demoted from a "destroyer of cultural works", to a mere "yet another jackoff who attempted to destroy cultural works, but failed". Which makes him a forgettable footnote in history, which I think, long term, is just perfect.
generalfrevious said:
Why should we pick only two? Every single film except the SW films allows you to have all three options. But no, GL is such a psychotic monster that he forces you to choose between official and presentable. That is fucking unjust and no person should have to subject themselves to GL's pretzel logic.
Okay, let's try out this prioritization test. Which of these statements to you feel the most/least sympathy for, or are you equal on all three?
1) Boycott the official BD's, because they aren't the OOT.
2) Boycott the GOUT discs, because they aren't presentable.
3) Boycott fan preservations, because they aren't official.
My guess is, perfectly justifiable indignation aside, you're already well on the road to resolving this issue to your own personal satisfaction.
generalfrevious said:
Well, Lucas is still alive and making money, and Katie is being groomed to take over her father's position. We are still no closer to getting the OOT in an official and presentable release than we were 10 years ago, so getting over it is not really an option right now.
1) OOT
2) Official
3) Presentable
Pick any 2. I will be perfectly satisfied with 1 & 3. I'm honestly not sure what option 2 gets you, so perhaps you may someday determine it's not that important to you either.
Chicken Boo said:
Sorry, really novice question that was probably covered, but is this going to be 24p or is it the normal PAL framerate?
23.976 fps (24p)
Good point, none. FWIW all of my subs all use the same timings, except where part of a line isn't subtitled. i.e. "Uh, slight weapons malfunction." might be subbed in another language as "Slight weapons malfunction.", and I'd try to shift a foreign sub like that so that the subtitle doesn't appear on the "Uh", unless the line is spoken so quickly it's not relevant. Mine were definitely all timed to go with English audio--foreign dubs were not considered except that I made forced subs (crawl+alien only) available for them.
But yeah, if you have some sort of transform function from GOUT->other, I'm sure you could convert them to other formats as needed.
leo87 said:
Can't wait for this new release, it's looking good. So only Star Wars is getting a v2.0 right?
Nope, last I heard Harmy's planning for the whole set. Although I hope he gives himself a vacation after this one.
Mielr said:
CatBus said:
Mielr said:
On a side note, I know of someone who has all 3 SW films on 35mm (he collects 35mm films).
If he has a copy of non-SE Jedi, ask him if he'd sell/loan his print to someone else to make the transfer. If he would, I bet we can find one hell of an interested party right here.
I doubt it. I haven't spoken to him yet, but the fact that he works at a place that has a telecine and he hasn't used it for that purpose yet, says a lot. He could go in there in the middle of the night and do it without anyone knowing, but I gather he's just not interested.
Plus, I'm not 100% sure they're even the OOT, but I will definitely ask next time I go in.
There's a lot of plausible deniability in having someone else do it that you don't get when you do it yourself. It's really worth a shot.
Thanks. That's exactly what started this--a deaf friend who couldn't watch a fan preservation due to lack of SDH subs, and it all kinda spiralled out of control like a lot of geek projects tend to do.