Never tell me the odds!
I was 12 when it came out in the Cinemas and it was my favourite of the trilogy, by about 15 I preferred Empire. So for 3 years it was my favourite film of all time until my tastes matured . As an adult I can see what is wrong with it and what it lacked in hindsight, but at the time it seemedthe perfect ending to the trilogy.
You just described my experience as a kid.
I saw ROTJ when I was 11 years old, and I LOVED it as it was my favorite of the trilogy in 1983. I would say around late 80's/early 90's the Trilogy started coming on SyFy Network as a marathon for the first time, and I started to realize how great Empire was and how inferior Jedi was.
The irony about Jedi is as a kid I loved the Jabba part, and didn't mind the Ewoks, and thought the Throne Rooms Scenes were OK. As I got older I thought the Jabba part dragged, the Ewoks were lame, and now I love the Throne Room Scenes.
In regards to the possibility of a Solo child, I think it would be strange if, 30 years later, none of the main characters from the OT had had children. So it just seems natural that we'll see one of their offspring in the new film and that they would be one of the major new characters.
No doubt we will. It's just me wishful thinking that we'll finally leave Lucas' incestuous ...Solar System Far Far Away.
At this point, if they were ever going to make an Episode 7,8,9, you have to make it about the Han/Leia or Luke's children. The spinoffs should be about new characters, and the Saga movies should be about the Skywalkers.
J J's Paranoia comes from his own mindset, in which he believes that plot-twists and surprise are the most important elements of a cinematic experience.
Faust, Oedipus, The Illiad, Dante's Commedy...most of the major works of art Men have created have quite predictable endings, we can foretell what will happen, but we don't know how will it happen, and the depth of these works is set in that how. The Prequels sucked, not because we knew the story already, but because they were shittily told, in every single way, from script to visuals.
Now, Star Wars redefined the concept of plot-twist with "I am your father"... and it was cool, because it was jaw-dropping but also because it presented the opportunity to make personal for the character a struggle that was mainly political. It was fine for a 3 part movie.
Now there's a virtually unlimited number of movies, and it should be time to realise there's a lot more to tell in any story than deus-ex-machina-kind of stuff. I mean this diegetically, and non diegetically, a film is perfectly enjoyable even if you know everything that will happen.
JJ only believes in Jaw-dropping amusement. Lost proves this, and that is the source of his secrecy. It's funny he is compared with Spielberg some times.
Interesting take as I never thought of it that way. You are essentially saying he is more in the M Night Shalayman type movies where the twist in the movie is the foundation of the movies.
That sort of worries me a twist in a movie should be gravy, but shouldn't be the foundation of the movie. Sure there are great movies with great twists: Sixth Sense, Usual Suspects, Presummed Innocent, etc. But SW movies were never about the 'twist'. I contend that Empire Strikes Back is a great movie, regardless of the twist at the end.
timdiggerm said:And finally – This might come as a shock considering what all the actors have been saying but not everyone is entirely happy with the way the movie is heading. Several people have told me they feel like they are just ‘going over old ground’ with the things they are being asked to work on. The feeling is that The Force Awakens is a rehash of the original movie and doesn’t have enough new ideas in it.
This was my biggest fear is that they go too 'nostalgic' to please the fans, and we don't get anything new.
Part of me believes this rumor because I have always suspected that there isn't much more of a story to tell in this universe (which makes the OT movies that much more great when you think about it). Heck, they started rehashing stuff in ROTJ!
There is still a part of me that can't believe they would be this dumb to essentially do a remake of Episode IV, because fans like me won't even bother with Episodes 8 & 9.
An older Anakin and Padme in TPM, along with the same actor playing Anakin for all 3 movies.
The biggest problem with Episode I is that we essentially have to re-acquaint ourselves with the characters because they are so different in Episode II. There is a new actor playing Anakin in Episode II, so that takes time getting use to along with an older Padme played by Portman. And QuiGon should have never been in Episode I, because that cut into Obiwan's screentime, who we really don't get to know til Episode II.
In many ways, the Saga started at Episode II because that is when you get to the nitty gritty of the main characters, and that is the biggest flaw of the Prequels.
I wonder at what point he changed his mind and decided he wanted to make a third trilogy?
As they old saying goes from All The Presidents Men, "Follow the money!"
Lucas said an in interview on Charlie Rose in 2004 that his company was having financial problems in the early 90's. His shareholders went to him and did a presentation on the financial effects of making the PT. He then said (paraphrasing), "I could have walked away from SW right then and there, and would be free to make whatever movie I want to make, but I would always be reliant on the studio system. The financial benefits of making the PT is that it would make my company independent and free from the Studio System forever."
Lucas was asked about his plan to make 9 movies again right before Episode 1 and he answered, "Ha-Ha, let me make this trilogy first!" He could have easily said right then and there that the Saga is 6 movies.
Then I believe Lucas was fed up with everything after the PT, and didn't want any part of SW again in the form of movies. But again: Follow the money!
There was still a demand for SW (despite the PT), so he was either going to make Episode 7 and then sell, or just sell altogether and let someone else do the ST. There is just too much money to made on SW to stop milking this cow, Lucas knows it, Disney knows it, we all know it.
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While the duel is action packed, and John Williams music is great, it pretty much sums up what is wrong with the PT: There is nothing more to it then that. What makes a great duel from the OT was the action AND the dialogue, and Duel of Fates lacks any dialogue. In a sense, Lucas chose style over substance for the PT again.
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I can pin point a specific moment where it hit me that the PT was bad. My friends and I were in the theater seeing AOTC opening weekend, and during romance scene with Padme and Anakin, I look over and one of my friends was fast asleep! I was repressing my feelings that these movies sucked, simply because it was SW and Lucas could do no wrong during the OT days?
Once I was able to shake my naivity towards the new movies, then as I was able to look at the PT just like any movie I would see. These weren't the movies I was looking for.
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If Lucas never sold to Disney, then I could understand your stance. But at this point, I GUARANTEE Disney will release the OOT sometime in the future, as the only thing that is holding things back are legal issues.
I believe Bob Iger (CEO Disney) was asked about releasing the OOT to coincide with Episode 7, and he said that would be a great idea!
Again, its all about the legal issues at this point, so I am not boycotting anything with Star Wars anymore because Lucas is really out of the picture.
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Koryo Songhay said:
Especially her doing her diplomat thing without Han and Luke. That aspect always fascinated me.
From all of the Episode 7 spoilers (whether they are true or false), there hasn't been anything on Princess Leia. No pictures, not even one tidbit as I am starting to wonder if she has the smallest role of the big 3.
I know she was on Craig Ferguson last week, and was funny as she usually is. She said it was suprisingly easy to get back into character after 30 years. And then she said they misused her character in Episode 7, paused, and then said she was joking after the crowd seemed displeased. But I wonder if she really was joking? And she just has a bit part?
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The one thing I have learned about teasers and trailers is most of the time they are better then the movies, and really set up a false expectation. The PT trailers were great, and those movies paled in comparison.
I thought the first Episode 7 teaser was OK, as it didn't get the juices flowing like the PT trailers. And you know what, I'm good with that. I will say that it FEELS like the OT, and that is a huge hurdle for this trilogy to accomplish. The PT never felt like the OT, because essentially these movies all need to link up for them to work. I give JJ & Disney credit for not showing Luke, Leia or Han, as that would have been an easy sell in the first teaser to the old fans. They were essentially saying that here are the new leads of the movie (Boyega, Ridley, Isaac), so we are not going to fool you showing the Big 3 and make you think they will have the same screentime as they did in the OT.
I know Lucas put suited Vader in BOTH Episode 3 trailers, only to see him in the damn movie for 5 minutes, and if felt like a cheap marketing stunt. In the end, its the movie that counts, not the trailers, so I'm glad I'm not going crazy with excitement today, as it will temper my expectations come next December. But its still fun for all of us to feel 10 years old again talking about this stuff, as SW is the only franchise that still works for me on this level as an adult.
I have no problem with the title, as it pretty much goes with every SW title. Every SW title is very generic, yet its left up to many interpretations.
If its a good movie, then the title will mean absolutely nothing in the long run.
While I agree with everyone about the PT problems: overuse of CGI, plot inconsistencies, midiclorians, etc. My biggest gripe is I don't give a shit about the characters, so the movies will never resonate with me.
Anakin and Padme just do nothing for me, and I say that because when they face tragic situations at the end of ROTS, I felt nothing. A movie works when you feel for the characters and their struggles. When Han Solo gets put into carbonite, that is a very dramatic scene, yet when Anakin is lying there in lava, I didn't bat an eye.
I like Obiwan and I like Palpatine's character in the PT, but Anakin & Padme are the reason this trilogy is made. That is why I still don't know if I will like the ST, because the new characters have to resonate with me too. Sure Luke, Leia and Han will resonate with me in Episode 7, but Episode's 8 & 9 will be about the next generation, and hopefully those characters we care about, or the ST will be facing the same problems as the PT.
I didn't tell you what you should call it. I simply said it's idiotic to do so when the film was only titled that for three or four years.
I guess you think Lucas and Lucasfilm are idiots because they weren't promoting it as A New Hope back in 1997 when they released the Special Editions to the theaters. Check out the Special Edition Trailer and around 1:30 they advertise them as Star Wars, Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi. Not once is the name A New Hope mentioned, and that is 20 years after the movie was released!
Only when Lucas made the Prequels, did he start advertising them with Roman Numerals and then started calling it A New Hope. No one is arguing that they were in the opening crawl, but even Lucas still called it Star Wars for the first 20 years!
So I guess George Lucas is as idiot as we are! LOL!
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Heero Yuy said:
Eh, I don't really mind differing opinions. We don't want this place to become a mindless circle jerk like Lucas apologists are trying to turn TF.N into, do we?
I don't mind different opinions on the SW movies, but the reason were all here is to get the OOT released. Honestly, if someone comes in here to shit all over the OOT, then whats the point of the site?
The better analogy would be if someone went to TFN and didn't like ANY SW movie, and just started ragging on the 6 movies. The point is everyone goes there to talk about SW movies, but the problem with TFN is they wanted EVERYONE to love the 6 movies and ran off any OOT fans who didn't like the PT.
We are all here to get the OOT released, and that was the original point of the site. Now if someone wants to tell us how much they love Episode I, they have every right to do it.
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Lucas won't be releasing any Star Wars films, OOT or otherwise, anyway, so that's another stupid question you've asked today.
You realize the website's purpose is to get the Originals released??? I hate the movie Forrest Gump, but I wouldn't go to Forrest Gump Message Boards and shit all over their fans.
Not really, no. If it pleases you, though, I will say "I don't like how he comes across".
That's better. ;-)
Well, as I say, a lot can happen in 12 months.
What can happen in 12 months that will prevent Episode 7 from coming out?
Face it buddy, your 'Tragedy of Darth Vader' 1-6 story is so 10 years ago, as the new Saga is 1-9 now.
Repeat after me, "The Star Wars Saga is 1-9 now....."
How much demand for it is a moot issue. You're wrong and, um, you know you are.
OK, I'll play the game. So then should Lucas release the OOT fully remastered on BluRay then?
I don't like him.
Do you know him? You can disagree with Gary Kurtz, but to dislike someone you never met seems a bit overboard don't ya think?
Well, I'm still waiting for The Muppet's Christmas Carol uncut on DVD. Did Lucas direct that one, too? Since we're talking EVERY director...
Go start a site www.OriginalMuppetsChristmasCarolVersion.com and get thousands of members who post there everyday, and then you can make the case there is a demand for it like there is for the OOT. ;-)
The question "will you still refer" is different to "when you refer". Hate to break that to you :)
Principal photography being finished does not a completed film make. A lot can happen in 12 months. You might want to ask me your second question when it becomes relevant.
I'm sure Disney invested 4 Billion Dollars into the SW Franchise to shoot a movie for 6 months, and then never release the movie! I guess this will be the first Harrison Ford movie that doesn't make it to the theaters!
I'm not a member of TFN anymore, so I miss arguing with the PT crazies like yourself cause you guys got an answer for everything!
As of now, there only exist six films in the saga so when I talk about Star Wars it's the six existing films to which I'm referring.
Well, I hate to break it to you but Episode 7 just wrapped so the ST WILL be apart of the new Saga.
Again, please answer my question: Will you still refer to the Star Wars Saga as 6 movies once the ST comes out?
Well, Jackson has wrought more changes on his Tolkien films in a lot less time than it took Lucas to start revising his films so there's another difference. So god only knows how many versions will exist of both LOTR and The Hobbit in, say, thirty years' time.
It doesn't matter, each generation of Home Video has ALL of the versions that I can buy or ignore for the Lord of the Rings movies. The last time the OOT was up to par was on Laserdisk in 1993.
So your point is irrelevant because no one cares about the changes, they just care that EVERY version is released. Thats the difference between Lucas and EVERY director in Hollywood.