Man, these forums sure have changed. TFA fanboyism is reaching a level even the PT lovers can’t match. Several posts above with valid criticism against obvious stupidities and plot holes in TFA and the answer is to insult people? Jeez, TFA sure does matter A LOT!! Dare the infidels not like it!
Meh. OT.com was a better place.
Mithrandir already gave some great examples. I would add a couple more - both Communist and Nationalist Chinese factions used Japanese equipment during and after the Chinese Civil War, despite the symbolism carried by it. They were, after all, useful weapons, some quite modern and capable (the Ki-84 fighters, for example).
The United States Colonial Army used the same uniforms during and after the American War of Independence that were issued by the British Empire. Why? Again, because it was not only practical, it was necessary to do so.
Now, Star Wars being a movie I understand why they went with the “visual aesthetic inheritance” for the good/evil factions, even though the Resistance using old Imperial equipment would have been a radical and fun thing to see.
What I do not get is why is the FO so clean and flashy, while the Resistance is all rag-tag? Alright, keep the design aesthetic but couldn’t we actually reverse the theme and have the good guys be shiny and well equipped, while the FO soldiers being the grizzled but stoic making do with worn-out, dirty and scrapped together equipment? TIE-Fighters actually looking like the Rebel fighters in ANH, dirty, worn-out, and having personal insignia as each one is precious and kept to its pilot; stormtroopers being more varied as their armor doesn’t get issued on time after repairs are needed and they have all kind of field-mods, being dirtier and scratched…
Would have been cool. 😕
I admit I have a soft spot for TPM. I watched it for the first time in October '99 for my eleventh birthday and the experience still feels fond. I’ve never seen it with rose glasses, though. Something about it felt a bit off even then and, as much as I did laugh initially at Jar-Jar Binks, even my eleven years old self knew the character was far too much over the top and in-your-face by the end of the movie. I won’t go into the movie’s fault, of which there are many, as these have been discussed in detail here and elsewhere to no end.
It did have great moment, though! The space scenes were visually gorgeous, probably the best in all the Star Wars movies - think the initial Trade Federation blockade and invasion, the royal ship escaping through the blockade, and the final star fighter battle. It had a fantastic lightsaber duel, decent firefights in the royal palace and courtyard (definitely best in the entire PT), the droid army actually looked semi-competent and a credible threat after stomping the Gungans. Ewan McGregar and Liam Neeson were a great duo on screen. TPM had not only tangible sets but the locations were interesting, magical even. The movie has a fantastic soundtrack. And in its theatrical release, prior to that pink-hued, DNR bloated garbage home release, TPM just looks beautiful. At rare times, it does manage to capture the magical feeling of a galaxy far, far away the OT has.
Then came the couple of other prequels…
Horrible dialogue and acting, nonsensical and heavy-handed plot, bland directing aside, I think the greatest fault is that both AotC and RotS fall in that “uncanny valley” feeling. Especially the latter. The digital sets just look off. Not “fake”, off. When I watch RotJ now, I can clearly see scenes that I know are “fake”, composed shots of matte paintings, decors, and props. But they’re still real, tangible. The actors are actually “there”, even if that “there” is just a set. It gives a lifelike quality to it* that neither AotC nor RotS have. They just feel empty, sterile, flat even.
There’s a single scene from either AotC or RotS that actually is visually appealing to me, and that’s Jango and Obi-Wan’s star fighter duel. Everything else looks like an early 2000s video game pretending to be a movie. It just doesn’t work.
I applaud Lucas for trying to push cinematic technology but even with everything about them as-is, AotC and RotS would have been better movies if had stuck with actual film, real sets and props instead of going full-on, bluescreen only.
Okay, could someone clue me in exactly what was the developed characterisation of the big three (four) in TFA?
Kylo Ren, I get. Decent dialogue, good visual characterisation, I enjoyed Adam Driver’s acting. He had an agenda and enough of a story on his own.
So, what about the rest?
Poe? He’s a … great pilot? Mind you, this was so bluntly expressed (“woohoo, what a great pilot!”) in a visually so over the top scene that didn’t have an ounce of suspense and doesn’t hold a candle to Han, Lando or even Wedge’s gripping space combat scenes, that I cringed. What else is about him? He’s… brave? And this was the character I wanted to like the most. I love flying and aviation, I love space sims. Pilots are the greatest. Oscar Isaac is an enigmatic actor. Yet, I couldn’t care a bit about Poe. He was just there. A pilot. Flat and blank.
Daisy Ridley’s Rey. Bless Daisy for giving the character soul and charm but besides the strong thirty initial minutes what is there so much of a character development for Rey? She learns about the Force and how to fight using a lightsaber. Adding that on top the fact she was a skilled hand-to-hand fighter, pilot, mechanic and adventurer, I doesn’t really add much. And about her character itself, nothing changed. At the end of the movie she’s determined, brave and purposeful. Just as she was at the beginning! What exactly was the growth arc here?
Finn, okay. Boayega brought a lot of energy and had charm but I think the dialogue was a bit forced, and I couldn’t really get the sudden jump from a “coward” to a “hero”. Really, people think Jun joining the Rebellion after the Empire kills both of her father figures in a couple of days rushed but Finn suddenly turning full circle on his view of running and hiding from the First Order because of a girl he met a couple of days ago normal? Right. Well, at least TFA setup the character enough for a lot of possible future development but it did not really advance him within the movie that much.
Kylo, sure. Finn… okay, I could agree with some reservations. But Rey and especially Poe being deep, developed characters? Eh, no.
I just came back home after a second viewing of Rogue One less than thirty minutes ago. The first thing that popped up after I turned on my phone’s wifi was an article “In memory of Carrie Fisher.”
I am still shocked. I saw her forty minutes ago on the screen. No, I know it was CGI. But I was back in my childhood, looking at one of my heroes. The stauch Rebel princess.
It sounds stupid but I cannot stop thinking if this silly luck of watching a Star Wars movie, having a new Star Wars movie with Leia at the very end as it’s highlight actually, was an ironic and poetic way for her to make her exit. Carrie Fisher always loved to make those meta-jokes about her role…
Sorry for the rambling. I am just very sad and surprised…
Think people here will understand. We just lost our beloved princess. RIP Carrie Fisher.
Something that is incredibly minor yet makes me very happy is that in RO they actually bothered with each X-Wing’s individial markings. I wasn’t sure if I was just seeing what I wanted in the cinema (although I am sure I saw Blue Leader, Blue 2, and Blue 4) but this leak confirms it - high-res screenshot of Scarif space battle: https://ewedit.files.wordpress.com/2016/12/an1-ff-000831.jpg
I wasn’t concerned about Chirrut’s skills at all. Why? There are instances of people who have lost their sight and compensated with other senses. I remember seeing a documentary about a boy (hopefully a young adult now) who lost his sight and his hearing developed like a sonar; he can build a “3d scene” just based on sound. I know a biker in the UK who can do that too.
Chirrut was a Guardian of the Whills’ temple, so he was trained to fight. He may have had a decade or more to adjust to his loss of sight, and he is Force-sensitive. If anything was a bit far-fetched it was his bowcaster being able to damage a TIE-Fighter so badly that it crashed. I think the movie heavily implied the Force protected him.
I, for one, actually enjoyed that return to form for the Force being something vague and mystical.
Well, speaking about attachment to characters… As much as I expected it to happen, Jyn and Cassian’s death was, to me, the most emotional scene in a Star Wars movie since watching Return of the Jedi for the first time. Though I can’t clearly remember, I do not think even Qui-Gon’s death at the end of TPM resonated with me so much, and I was a kid back in '99.
While most people appeared to cheer when Darth Vader started butchering the rebels on the flagship, at the point I was (surprisingly) smirking, knowing he would fail. RO’s crescendo is when the Death Star shoots at Scariff. Not that I did not thoroughly enjoy the several minutes after that but they were bittersweet.
Something that irks me a bit is some people actually consider some of Jyn’s scenes to not be “strong” enough. I was highly skeptical of both the character and Felicity Jones prior to seeing the movie but I see not fault.
Take <i>“we’ll take the next chance… and the next… until we succeed, or the chances are spent”</i> line. Some friends were discussing after the movie she didn’t sound powerful and confident enough, rather being scared.
Er, really? Going on a suicide mission against a well defended military facility of a galaxy-wide Empire and you’re not supposed to be scared? Sure…
Oddly enough, where I live, so many people were polarized by TFA to an extent that they don’t want to go see RO in cinemas. So, there goes all that “how much money it will make compared to TFA” argument out of the window.
I don’t want to derail this but taste is subjective. To me, TFA is an incredibly well done movie but an incredibly soulless one. It’s the marketing director’s sweet dream come true. Repeated viewings have made it worse each time. Whenever people say they couldn’t connect to ROs characters but praise TFA, I can’t help but roll my eyes. If the TFA characters weren’t connected to the original cast, I am pretty certain things wouldn’t have been the same. And I give them that they acted well enough.
Honestly, Ep. VIII has me excited just about three things - Rian Johnson directing, behind-the-scenes photos of an A-Wing cockpit, and the possibility that it will feature a large space battle. I don’t care about the characters one bit.
Not even during the Prequels I could catch myself being so completely uncaring about the fate of the “trio” of Star Wars protagonists. Which really saddens me, but… it’s how it is.
I am noticing a lot of negative comments across the net about the image quality, specifically the movie being too dark and a bit washed out.
I saw it in IMAX 3D and it looked very well. Colour palette as rich and definitely not too dark. In fact, it was one of the best lit 3D movies I’ve seen.
I am going to see it again with another group of friends in REAL 2D or 3D… wondering if I’ll notice quality issues? The Arena REAL cinema screens in my city are definitely underlit, although I suspect that’s on part of the cinema chain trying to save $$$…
Someone on here talked about there being mentioning or a reference to the Whills in this movie. Tell us about them?
Indeed, there is! Two of the characters - Chirrut Imwe (the blind monk) and Baze Malbus (the “heavy weapons”) are Guardians of the (temple of the) Whills.
Whether that makes them actual Whills or just Guardians was not stated explicitly, at least I did not catch it. Both were believers in the Force. Chirrut actually appeared to be Force-sensitive but he was definitely not a Jedi. As to the Whills, I think the context implied they were venerating the Force and their temple on Jeddha was a source of knowledge. I would have imagined it being a library and them being librarians/monks but not Jedi proper. Jeddha is also a major source of Kyber crystals.
The Empire early on thrashed the temple and scattered the Whills. The Guardians were described as disgruntled protectors, with “nothing left to protect anymore.”
Chirrut and Baze were both some of the spotlights of the movie - great actor performance, great dialogue and combat skills from both.
What I missed:
Maybe edit:
Other than that, I believe the movie was fine.
Really interested to hear what people think about R1 who didn’t like TFA.
Outside of the first thirty to forty minutes, TFA was a great letdown for me. It’s somewhere with the prequels in my world, I can tolerate it but I mostly ignore it as a wasted opportunity (at best) and a very bad movie (at worst).
See my post above -> I absolutely loved Rogue One, despite some flaws.
I only hope Rian Johnson is more like Gareth Edwards than JJ in his vision for Ep. VIII …
I am back from a pre-premiere screening (at least in my country), and I am thrilled. To me, this is the best Star Wars movie to be released since 1980. I’ve watched the OT on cinema in the 90s when the Special Editions were released, as I am too young to have seen them during their original runs, and I’ve watched every Episode premiere following.
Edwards has done a fantastic fan service and I am saying that in the most positive way possible. He definitely loves Star Wars and I think has a far better grasp of what it stands for than JJ; as much as the movie is different, tonally and editing, from the Saga movies, I think it gave me everything I could have wanted from a Star Wars movie. In some respects, it’s also a “soft reboot” - it’s a mix between a direct prequel for ANH and what RotJ should (could) have been. But it’s subtle, not at all blatant like TFA was. In fact, it makes TFA feel like a 12-year old’s fanfic. Rogue One has breadth, scope and nuance (not just visually but story wise) where TFA feels cramped and forced.
Tarkin looks amazing. Definitely still in the “uncanny valley” but far, far better than anything similar I’ve seen before. Honestly, if he was used more sparingly, the results would have been better. There’s a particular scene where he’s silent, just observing eerily (reminiscent of ANH) and that’s the exact moment I lost it that it was CGI… he felt like the real Peter Cushing. It still felt odd where there was dialogue and a close-up shot of his face, though. There is another CGI character used very briefly and it works marvelously.
RO gives me some vague hope that Disney can actually deliver decent continuation of the OT, and that JJ’s TFA was just a misstep as they wanted to play “safe” with the new trilogy. The movie had its fair share of problems but overall, it’s great.
If anyone is interested in spoilers, let me know. 😃
Really sad to see what has happened here. I rarely post, although I’ve been following TESB:R ever since Ady announced it way back in… 2007? 2008?
Speaking from experience, I can understand that when you already have troubles piling upon you, the last thing you need is to have your hobby project become a source of irritation.
Ady, Thank you for all the great work you’ve put into Revisited, and for spoiling us here over the years! It was a pleasure to see each update on the project. Thumbs up you’ll release it eventually! And that your troubles will soon be behind you!
Where can I follow Revisited now…? 😦
Hey Ady, would love to help on Bulgarian subtitles.
New battle of Hoth footage is incredible. Can’t wait to see it in (glorious!) HD… 😃
Well, it seems that there’s at least one common pattern here - that AotC, bar two very good tracks, is the most disliked soundtrack of them all. Probably the movie, too. But I digress.
The best, most refined soundtrack of the whole Saga. After getting the restored “Imperial Edition” from here, I cannot emphasize how much the improved audio quality has brought out each layer of instruments and the complexity of TESBs tracks. Yoda’s Theme, The Imperial March, Battle in the Snow, The Love Theme are all incredible tracks that add up to a very diverse and emotional soundtrack. I’ve listened to it dozens of times and I love the experience every time.
I rank this second best if only just because Williams isn’t as refined as in TESB. It just lacks the depth and diversity of ESBs tracks. Yet, it is truly fantastic! The Star Wars theme, the Jawa/Desert theme, TIE Fighter Attack, The Last Battle, The Throne Room, all are deservingly iconic tracks! This is also the catchiest and loudest of all the Saga’s soundtracks.
Yes, The Phantom Menace. Say what you wish about the movie but the music brought me to a Galaxy far, far away. Otoh Gunga’s mysterious and ominous theme, Anakin’s Theme, Victory Theme, The Trade Federation March, and the (now) ubiquitous Duel of the Fates. Diverse, complex and emotional soundtrack that adds a lot to the music of the Saga without feeling detached from the style.
This is very close for me to TPM, and I enjoy them both very much, but I rank it lower as it reuses some music. Jedi is a great score with nice, even if less varied themes. The Battle of Endor theme, the Ewok theme, the last duel between Vader and Luke, Jabba’s Sail Barge. Yes, they reuse a lot of cues but it’s a beautiful and catchy soundtrack.
Hard to rank from here down. As much as I try to, I cannot force myself to love TFAs soundtrack. I like it but it doesn’t resonate emotionally as those of the Original Trilogy, or TPMs. Ray’s Theme, The Scavenger are the highlights here and some of the best Williams has written for the Saga. Kylo Ren’s theme and March of the Resistance are also interesting pieces that twist older cues, and I’ve become fonder of them, but overall the soundtrack is bland. Not bad, just not captivating.
Loud, bombastic, repetitive. Padme’s Ruminations was a touching piece but I always feel like it doesn’t belong stylistically to anything else in the Saga. The Revenge of the Sith theme is probably the highlight here although it’s a bit too long for its own good. There are two tracks that are essentially variations of the same - Battle of the Heroes and Anakin vs. Obi-Wan. Good tracks that are so long that they become repetitive (especially the former). Overall, I think it’s too edited, too drab and too boring. Serviceable, but not in the style or quality of the soundtracks above.
I’d rank it higher than ROTS of only it had more than just two original tracks! Among the Stars is a masterpiece that almost saves the movie when it plays, and Chase through Coruscant was a joyful and suspenseful track that truly reminded me of ANHs cues. Other than that, it’s just a rehash of TPM. A soundtrack I’ve never owned, never listened through more than once and I cannot remember anything else from it other than the two tracks mentioned above.
I noticed you had slowed down the action scenes. Great, something I felt bothered me in TFA, every action shot being far too frantic for a Star Wars movie.
Great rescore, really liked it!
After seeing Snoke’s description I can’t help but wonder… could he be Ezra Bridger from Star Wars: Rebels?
Just wondering, has anyone seen the hilarity that is the Honest Trailers TFA trailer?
Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pegJQPIzfs4
“The Prequels. They’re gnawing at you. Just let them go!”
You know, these only make any sense if you consider the horrible Prequels actually existed.
If you do not, and avoid what Vader has become in pop culture, he is a towering, imposing figure of oppression, discipline, fear and brutal efficiency that enforced the will of the Empire across the Galaxy.
Often, I find that my friends with the least knowledge in Star Wars (those who do not follow the EU at all, have barely taken notice to Star Wars references in popular culture, etc.) actually have the strongest emotional reaction to such scenes. That, in theory, should affect the "true" fans the most.
As much as we hate the prequels and bash on them for being horrible movies, we are already too damaged by them to sometimes properly enjoy references to our beloved OT.
TL;DR - I don't like Prequel Anakin, never existed. Kylo is awesome!
After looking at the resized screenshot here: http://collider.com/star-wars-7-trailer-analysis-starkiller-base/ , I am pretty certain that the rumours are true and Han dies.
That shot with Daisy Ridley crying? Definitely him laying on the ground. His jacket shoulder rim stitch, shape and colour match, and above all - look at the hair. It's gray, longer and more sparse. Definitely not John Boayega and most certainly not Chewie.
Sadly, I think that this adventure will be the end for Han Solo. :(
Ziggy Stardust said:
Still, I'm hoping for the best. I've put a lot of my faith into this movie. Whenever something bad has happened to me this year, I've simply reminded myself that this is coming out. My girlfriend cheated on me? Star Wars is coming. My dog died? Star Wars is coming. I got fired? Star Wars is coming. You get the idea. What ever will I do if this movie disappoints me? I might have to begin to care about something besides a movie! ;)
Know how you feel, man. 2015 is probably the most horrible year I've had and yet, I kept thinking at least it would end well. A decent (if not good, even!) Star Wars film is coming! Yes, totally a drowning man holding onto a straw.
The trailer, in a most odd and unpleasant way, reminds me of I felt back in 2005 when then RotS trailer came out. It has that same very polished, very shiny, clean artificial look, slightly reminiscent of the OT, yet different; frantic, fast-paced and heavily recut action shots interspersed with what appear to be long and dull exposition sections. The camera work actually looks great but it doesn't feel like the Original Trilogy. Not even the Prequels. Only RotS had a lot of these moving, panning (CGI) shots. In the rare instances where it wasn't just A camera/B camera sofa dialogues, that is.
I also fear that battles will be of the typical Prequel fare. Dumb, explosive, fast, pointless. Just cram as many things as you can. Star Wars intentionally felt almost like a documentary. Battles were exciting and engaging but they also felt methodical, more involved in the story. They actually served a purpose within the storyline. They had dialogue, pacing, sections of their own and unfolded almost like they could have been (great) stand-alone stories. TESB was the same, and even RotJ had great battles scenes. Cut to the Prequels and you have CGI armies or navies mashing at each other, without any reason either story-wise or even in-universe. No objectives, no battle story, no progression, no dialogue. At least TMP battles had some of these! ...
It feels like TFA is going the latter way. Try to fit as many short, explosive scenes as possible. Three battles during a single movie? It will be RotS' Kashyyk all over again.
I dearly hope that I am wrong.... but I suspect that I am not.
darklordoftech said:
SilverWook said:
Maybe the interceptors didn't perform too well in ROTJ? Or at least they didn't outperform the older design?
This is what I was thinking. Maybe Interceptors are the Imperial equivalent of A-Wings rather than a successor to standard TIEs.
Pretty much what the EU established. The TIE-Interceptor is, well, an interceptor. More of a high-speed specialized anti-bomber craft than a general multi purpose fighter.
The X-Wing board game's upcoming TFA expansion lists several of the new TIE/fo squadrons - Zeta, Epsilon, Omega. Pretty cool, since that's how Imperial squadrons were named in the old X-Wing/TIE Fighter games. :)
SilverWook said:
Burdokva said:
I know it's something supposedly minor but am I the only one who is very disappointed at how bland the new Imperial, ahem, First Order vehicles look like?
The TIE/fo in particular (it's been practically confirmed that's the official name based on the X-Wing board game and Bandai's upcoming scale model), it's just a normal TIE-Fighter with some very minor detail alteration and negative colour scheme! White radiator/solar panels and black hull! ... Meh.
Some aircraft & spacecraft designs don't change very much over time. And the TIE is probably hard to improve on.
In the real world, B-52's are still flying, and Russia's still launching Soyuz space capsules.
I don't mind the design itself (in fact, I love TIEs) and you make a fair point.
What bothers me is that essentially they discarded the evolutionary path already established in RotJ with the TIE Interceptor and just went with a new paint job. One that also really screams "it's a toy!" to me.
