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I for one am not looking forward to seeing what rehash Kathleen writes and directs for us once again.
DrDre said:
You seem very focussed on the idea, that a character is only defined by explicit dialogue telling us how a character feels.
I don’t understand what it is with these people who don’t get inference and subtext.
As you said, it’s all right there in the movie.
Don’t forget one last subtle thing at the end of the movie either:
Luke doesn’t rally the troops to head off into battle right away. This isn’t the same guy leaving Dagobah earlier in the movie. He’s going to take his time and wait to strike when the moment is right.
Luke was cocky and immature. He never once thought he would lose to Vader in Empire until he had been bludgeoned repeatedly, had his hand cut off, been disarmed, and backed onto some precipice from which there was no escape.
Before all that, he was like yeah. I’ve got the Force man. My father was a Jedi and I’m a Jedi too. I’m going to go and avenge him because I’m the good guy. My friends need me. I’m not afraid. I know I’m going to win.
He was naive, simple-minded, reckless, overconfident. Pretty accurate description for most teenage boys and young men, wouldn’t you say?
By the end of the movie he was changed. His incubated little world was shattered. Crushed. He gained a wider understanding of his own nature and who and what he was up against. He started out uninformed, arrogant, and hotheaded. He ended up informed, humbled, and reflective.
Isn’t that what we call change?
He decides to make a jump that he believed would kill him. For example.
fypfy
I do not necessary disagree with with your assumptions, but if we look at the dry facts, in the one scene that is left in ESB there is nothing that indicates any change in character. There are no actions or dialogue that would indicate so.
You don’t need to be shown everything on screen. Don’t fall into the Lucas trap.
I disagree. For one a person who experiences trauma is never the same after such an external “disturbance”. This is the very nature of trauma, and Luke experienced trauma in more ways than just physical injury. He went to Cloud City, believing he might be able to save his friends from the clutches of the man who murdered his father, only to come up one hand short, and discovering that his noble hero father is the ultimate bad guy. A man is, what he believes in, and everything Luke believed, has turned out to be a lie. I would call that a life changing event. The Luke at the end of TESB definitely is no longer the naive young rebel he was at the start of the film. He is now a Jedi in training, who’s life has been turned upside down. The idea that he would just get a new hand, and go on as if nothing has happened (which is what you seem to suggest) is ludricous to me.
Imperialscum, you are going to have a hard time winning your debates when you keep running into solid posts like these.
The designs are pretty disappointing. Though they brand them as “evolution’s”, they really come off as quite lazy. I just wish they had the boldness to actually do something different from the classic star wars ships. Take risks people. That is why the new rebel ships seen on Crait actually really excite me! They look unique and unlike anything I have seen in Star Wars so far.
The people making these movies are not visionaries. Their only concern is to package you something you are familiar with and sell it to you in a nice corporate fashion. I bet they even have that manufactured new car smell.
goood…the new designs you want will probably be awful…i hope we never get away from the OT aesthetic
Here’s an idea…you can do new things that are still true to the original.
Possibilities?
I would like to see movies like choice #1. The third option is basically the original movies.
#2 and #4 are the worst. The prequels were visionary, but their vision sucked. The Disney movies have taken something beloved and co-opted it for soulless, corporate profit. Total lack of imagination. No vision. Frankenstein’s monster of plot contrivances where every little producer and executive gets their pet idea into the picture. Sell more toys. Sell more video games. You get the idea.
TFA had real characters
lol
The designs are pretty disappointing. Though they brand them as “evolution’s”, they really come off as quite lazy. I just wish they had the boldness to actually do something different from the classic star wars ships. Take risks people. That is why the new rebel ships seen on Crait actually really excite me! They look unique and unlike anything I have seen in Star Wars so far.
The people making these movies are not visionaries. Their only concern is to package you something you are familiar with and sell it to you in a nice corporate fashion. I bet they even have that manufactured new car smell.
https://www.gamespot.com/articles/terminator-2s-joe-morton-shares-the-story-behind-h/1100-6452875/
You just don’t get that kind of detail in movies these days. The expendable side character drenched in sweat, repeatedly, desperately gasping for air for a good 5-10 seconds, then he dies and everything blows up. The same thing happened in Star Wars when Luke got dunked in the trash compactor. He came up gasping for air, soaking wet, garbage stuck in his hair. He was still basically towling off in the next scene even.
There is something REAL about good films.
Then you get all this new garbage. Cartoon CGI. Actors in front of green screen. More “acting” in front of green screen. Close-ups. Hamming it up for the camera. Over-acting. Everything is too clean. It’s artificial. It’s staged. There is nothing real in movies anymore. It’s a show. A hoax. A fraud. Watch at your own risk.
I’m glad I got to watch T2 on the big screen this weekend, even if it was in 3D. Like the Star Wars OT, James Cameron’s best film was created at a time in movie making which existed between the serious films of the generation before, and the trite, indulgent, self acknowledging green screen garbage that pollutes nearly everything today. There was a time when you could have an action movie that was fun, but that was also dark, or full of despair even. You could have a movie that employed CGI, but was still based in reality, with physical sets, explosions, even robots and more. A semi-truck can really fly off an overpass and explode into a fireball and be captured on film, rather than a car being rendered on a computer screen doing impossible flips in mid-air amid inserts of actors winking at the camera and breaking the fourth wall.
These were the thoughts I was left with from the other night, after we watched an interminably long preview sequence before the movie started. The only one I can remember was the preview for Thor: Ragnarok. Honestly, it looked like one of the worst pieces of shit I have ever seen put on a movie screen. But it’s not a singular failure that deserves to be singled out and mocked or derided. The movie looks like literally every action or adventure flick that is put in theaters these days. There is something wrong with the movie making process. From the studios, to the lack of talent among the people making the movies and writing the scripts, no vision, all the way down to the moribund audiences who have all but turned into those idiots from Wall-E.
At least for one night it was fun, to go back in time and watch a movie that was well-made. A movie which was home in the nexus between that which is fun and entertaining, but also real, thought-provoking, and fierce at the same time. I can only hope I’ll be able to watch the original Star Wars films in a similar way one day–in their original, unaltered versions of course.
Terminator 2: Judgement Day (3D re-release)
My favorite film from the 1990s. Exceptionally well-made. First time I’ve seen it on the big screen, and definitely worth it. I could do without the 3D, but overall it was fine I guess, and the restored picture looked beautiful. Over a quarter century later, this film still holds up remarkably well.
I’m going to see Terminator 2 in 3D tomorrow night. I would prefer no 3D but don’t have a choice. Still excited though, one of my favorites!
Empire has the best soundtrack. All three are pretty damn good though.
The TPM score is very good. I don’t remember much of the other two because so much is recycled from TPM.
Aotc definitely but I’d say rots has a very good score also, maybe not as good as tpm.
Musically either Williams is just getting old or Lucas wasn’t giving him good instructions or the whole editing process really screwed things up. I think TPM was the last good Star Wars score. AOTC has Across the Stars and then blech. His songs for TFA are much better than the ROTS score. But to be honest, the music is best in TESB. It would be wonderful if Rian Johnson could get Williams to deliver a stunning score again. Music can make the movie. I think Rogue One might have been even better with Williams, but they used his themes with some new ones and did something very good (if not perfect). I hadn’t really thought about it before, but I think musically, I would rank William’s films scores as TESB, TPM, ROTJ, ANH, ATOC, TFA, ROTS. (I put ANH lower because it uses more varied styles that don’t fit as well with the saga as a whole while TESB, TPM, and ROTJ are more thematically unified)
Composers don’t create moving music unless the narrative they are watching moves them in a similar way. Commercial junk will not produce inspiring music because it is devoid of anything inspiring within.
They need to set it between Episodes 5 and 6. Essentially just My Dinner With Andre set in Yoda’s hut where they wax rhapsodic about their early lives and wonder just how everything went so wrong.
👍
Wow, I don’t even merit a juvenile personal attack? I’m hurt. When have you ever contributed one positive thing to this site in the two plus years you’ve been stinking up the joint? You don’t just beat a dead horse, you pulverized it, inhaled it and breathed it out again.
You know I had a savage post ready for you Wook, but I’m just going to take the high road. I’ve had very positive engagements and collaborations with people off here that I’ve met through this forum. I’m thankful for that. This used to be THE place for original trilogy fans, and there are definitely still lots of great people here on OT.com. I’ve had some of them help me out when I needed a hand, and I’ve had others thank me in PMs for taking up for them or saying what they wanted to say. Apparently these general threads about rehash movies carry all the weight in your eyes, though, so if that’s how you feel. Good for you. I know what kind of person you are. When you were taking severe criticism from a few members over the 40th anniversary letter you penned to Disney and Lucasfilm, I sent you a heartfelt, unsolicited PM thanking you for your hard work and commitment, even though we didn’t agree on the execution. You didn’t even bother to respond.
I think that says something about your character and mine.
I wouldn’t even pretend to be a valuable or important member of this forum. If you think you’re slighting my ego by saying otherwise, you are not. I’m just someone who likes and cares about these original films, and how they inspired me and no doubt formed my outlook on life in many ways from a very young age. This used to be what the forum was about, and what united nearly all members here. Now there are these new films, and you know what? That’s fine. If you like them you like them. But you cannot even tolerate opposition. Myself and a few other posters are persistent but not belligerent. You object to our persistence? So you’re insecure, deal with it. You like what you like and we like what we like. I don’t see you or Anchor jumping in a prequel trilogy thread and telling OTers to knock off their criticism or clear the thread if they don’t have anything nice to say. But if it’s a movie you like, that’s a different story? Nice standard you have there.
As long as there are moderators on this board, you can expect to be asked - again - to step away from discussions that have nothing to do with whether of not Disney is going to release the 77 film properly.
My post didn’t suggest that ST fans shouldn’t be welcomed here. If that was your (defensive) take, I would advise to please read again.
What I did was I explained that it should not be a surprise that many people here for the original trilogy dislike these films both individually and on a greater level. I’ve always said that if someone can stand criticism of something they like, and engage in a civil manner, I will always behave in the same way. Most of the Disney ST fans cannot and they are responded to in kind. If you want to banish me or any OOT-only poster to OOT-only threads, and make these general threads a safe space devoid of ST criticism, then put it in the rules somewhere and I will do you a favor. You won’t even have to take moderator action or ask me to leave. I will do it of my own volition, as that is not the type of community I want to belong to.
I understand you don’t dig the new films. I didnt dig any Star Wars releases between 1980 and 2015. I didn’t take that out on the people who did.
You didn’t like Empire Strikes Back, Return of the Jedi, or the prequels, so when people mercilessly criticize them, you turn your back and look the other way.
But when people criticize the movies you do like, you get defensive and suddenly its time to put on the moderator hat.
There’s a word for that. It starts with an h…
Let me be clear here since you seem to struggle with subtlety. Reel it in. Your opinion isn’t the only one.
Let me be clear here, since you seem rude and hostile towards people who make you feel insecure and uncomfortable about being a middle age man in pajamas enjoying his Summer of Rogue One. If you weren’t a hypocrite and an asshole, I wouldn’t respond to you in this way. I give people what they give back. There are numerous ST fans and PT fans I’ve come across on this forum that I treat with respect because they act the same way. When someone acts like an insecure child, they deserve to be treated like an insecure child. If you want to ban me because I dared to strike against your authority, then go ahead. It won’t change your insecurity or your hypocrisy.
My only apology would be to Jay, whose forum this is. He’s always been a cool and fair man and I regret for him the hostility these altercations cause on his board.
There’s nothing inherently wrong with “a Kenobi movie”. If this were a one-off, and it actually had a vision or something important to say, while there were otherwise new stories and new adventures for a new generation, that would be great.
The problem is that this is now 1…2…3…4…5…6… rehashes. Zero, nada, nothing new.
The movies aren’t any good. They have nothing to say to other than “hey, people liked these Star Wars characters 40 years ago, let’s put them all back on screen and surround them with bright distracting flashy things and make money off it”.
It’s junk. It’s garbage. It ain’t bringing back the OOT. If you want to create your own forum called Sequal Trilogy.com, I am not such a miserable sob that I would follow you there and deny you your entertainment. Have at it.
But as long as the site is called original trilogy.com, and there are those of us who are still motivated by trying to get the original original trilogy released, and see this junk and trash as obstacles in the way, yes you can expect to be mocked by some of us here for enabling the furtherance of such things.
Fink, every time you mock the prequels, an angel gets its wings.
Say something bad about Disney though, and hell hath no fury like a Fink scorned.
So far this thread can be summed up as follows:
A bunch of yaks and shills being castigated for eating the same dog food, film after film.
Their reply?
“But it’s good dog food!”
Oh well. Disney, please announce another rehash before the end of this year. How about a Bib Fortuna movie. Throw these dogs a frickin’ bone.
You know, the one that doesn’t completely rely on my foreknowledge of the other Star Wars films in order to be coherent.
The rehashes they made weren’t even remotely coherent.
I can’t wait to find out who they’ll name as the replacement director when they start all the reshoots!
👍 !
Rehash all the things lol
If there was any standalone that was an acceptable use for established characters, this would be it - it’s what everyone wanted since the whole standalone concept was announced.
How many Star Wars related films has Disney made or have in production?
1…2…3…4…5…6…am I missing any?
Not a single new story? That’s what corporations do. They buy existing IP. They scavenger it down to the very bone. All your $$s at a time until there is nothing left but you jerking around to your R2 figurine screaming “OMG DISNEY. STAR WARS. DISNEY. STAR WARS. I LOVE DISNEY I LOVE STAR WARS OMG OMG OMG!”
That is hardly the ethos the original three films aspired to be.
Rehash all the things lol