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kk650's Star Wars Saga: Regraded and Semi-Specialized (Released) — Page 3

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poita said:

kk650 said:

No replies yet? Maybe I should have said 'I'd appreciate it if ANYBODY could check these two clips and let me know whether you think they look overexposed' haha.

Come on guys, please help me out here. Let me know what you think. Did my old settings look better or do the clips look better with my latest settings? Is it the 500mb video files making people reluctant to check these clips out even though the download speed is very quick? I can regrade them at a lower bitrate no problem to make the files smaller if that's the issue.

 I think the newer settings are a bit better, but the blacks are a bit too low, (too far under 16,16,16) and the colour saturation seems a bit too high for me. Also there is a bit of inconsistency shot to shot. Han's shirt is almost lemon yellow in that opening sequence and the faces are too orange. The highlights have been clipped, so the faces have gone a little leathery. Contrast it to the next shot from your same clip, where Han's shirt is closer to the correct hue.

BTW, what colour are the walls in the room your are doing the correcting in? If they are not neutral, then hang an off-white sheet on the wall behind your monitor, it helps keep your colour perception accurate.

Yes, I agree about the saturation. I boosted it a little bit in the new settings compared to the old settings and went overboard. I'm going to knock the saturation back down to the same level as the old settings.

As for slight changes in hue between shots, thats happening all over the place in star wars so it doesn't really concern me too much. With my first semi-specialised release I did selective colour grading only for some of the shots on the tantive IV that I felt were changing their overall colour grading too much between shots and all the scenes with lightsabers, where I selectively colour graded only the lightsabers themselves after grading the scenes to match the rest of the film. Everything else I used one overall colour grading setting and I feel that it worked in keeping the colour grading consistent throughout the film. That's what I'm planning to do this time as well.

As for the colour of my walls, they are light grey.

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The grade is all over the place on the original film, I agree. As you said though, the saturation is a bit off in your sample, turning him into Lemon Solo.

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Jetrell Fo said:

I always found the lack of pink on this card to be telling.  Thanks to stsw2112 for the pic.

 Prints on paper are unfortunatley completely useless as a colour reference. The person responsible for the printing process will colour balance the image themselves to suit their own aesthetic and for technical reasons in the CMYK printing process. It will have no relation at all to what is on the film itself.

Cool image though.

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BenK said:

I like the direction of the color overall, but noticed the highlights are being pushed to the point of clipping in bright scenes. For example look at these shots (Bluray on top, your grade on the bottom).

What's lost in the Bluray can't be brought back but there is a natural fall-off to the highlights that becomes a hard clip in your grades. Are you doing shot-by-shot color adjustment or trying to come up with one setting that works for a whole scene or the whole film?

Can I ask which of the clips did you take those screencaps from, the new settings or the old settings?

As for whether i'm using one setting or doing a shot by shot colour correction, the answers both. Basically a lot of the early tantive IV shots have to be colour corrected shot by shot, the grading is totally inconsistent on the blu-ray. Also all the lightsabers have to be selectively colour corrected. Apart from that though and the scenes taken from the german hdtv transport streams that require different grading to fit with the regraded blu-ray footage, the rest uses a single setting because I feel that it makes for a more consistent film in terms of overall grading. I was very happy with the results I got with my first semi-specialised releases doing it this way so i'll be doing it the same this time.

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poita said:

The grade is all over the place on the original film, I agree. As you said though, the saturation is a bit off in your sample, turning him into Lemon Solo.

lol, you posting this made me imagine han solo advertising this drink in a commercial, a missed opportunity for the holiday special. That would have been kinda funny, itchy switching on the tv and Han Solo's ad appearing advertising his drink to keep you ice cool like him hehe

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poita said:

Jetrell Fo said:

I always found the lack of pink on this card to be telling.  Thanks to stsw2112 for the pic.

 Prints on paper are unfortunatley completely useless as a colour reference. The person responsible for the printing process will colour balance the image themselves to suit their own aesthetic and for technical reasons in the CMYK printing process. It will have no relation at all to what is on the film itself.

Cool image though.

 It is a cool image, one of numerous reasons why I like keeping the good things from the special editions in the films, hence these semi-specialised releases. The colour grading of that card though really is very poor though, doesn't look right at all for a warm desert planet. How there could release the card looking so wrong I don't know... Here's the same shot regraded using my settings (looking warm and yellow like it should):

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kk650 said:

poita said:

The grade is all over the place on the original film, I agree. As you said though, the saturation is a bit off in your sample, turning him into Lemon Solo.

lol, you posting this made me imagine han solo advertising this drink in a commercial, a missed opportunity for the holiday special. That would have been kinda funny, itchy switching on the tv and Han Solo's ad appearing advertising his drink to keep you ice cool like him hehe

 True, many missed marketing opportunities:

Product placement opportunities were missed also

But it's not too late, Disney have released some preview images from the upcoming 4K 2017 anniversary Special Super Duper edition.

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kk650 said:

Can I ask which of the clips did you take those screencaps from, the new settings or the old settings?

 The new settings. I like the new settings better overall, I just thought the highlight clipping was distracting on some of the Tatooine shots.

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BenK said:

kk650 said:

Can I ask which of the clips did you take those screencaps from, the new settings or the old settings?

 The new settings. I like the new settings better overall, I just thought the highlight clipping was distracting on some of the Tatooine shots.

Hmm. Did you also find the highlight clipping distracting as well with the clips using the old settings or were they within acceptable limits?

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poita said:


haha I imagine Han telling Jabba to keep cool about the money he owes him and offering him a drink of Solo. Jabba's such a pussy in this scene that he'd probably accept too, take a sip and wipe away the debt in the bargain.

How awful was that bit where Han stepped on Jabba's tail and Jabba let him get away with it?! Of all the special edition changes, GL really outdid himself with this one, making one of the main villains of the OT into a laughing stock right from the moment he's first introduced. *shakes head*

This was the very first scene I removed from the semi-specialised edition.

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Okay, here's a final clip, the final 4 minutes of the Death Star trench run. Overly yellow shots of Tarkin will have to be selectively regraded to reduce the amount of yellow like I had to with the first release. These are the overall settings i'll most likely use for this film, please let me know whether you like how the clip looks:

https://mega.co.nz/#!rhRSFAQZ!UgNRrkZmCxW0lEBGV69UXhn3FDVr_AEw5xNvpmdkXxw

I'm moving on to Empire Strikes Back, need to take a break from Star Wars.  I should have some regraded screencaps of Empire Strikes Back up real soon.

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I mostly like it, but the skintones look too yellow to me. Have you checked them against the fleshline on your vectorscopes?

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I'm looking forward to this regraded edition of your semi-specialized versions. I would love to have something that roughly is similar to Harmy's colorization of the OT in order to piece together a customized version to my own liking. 

I wouldn't release such a slightly modified version, but it'd be fun to do and have for myself. 

My stance on revising fan edits.

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Fleshtones are yellow in that last clip but within perfectly acceptable limits IMHO, with the exception of perhaps one or two shots of biggs than can be selectively regraded and course tarkin that definately has to be selectively regraded like I did in my first release.

I've been reading up about on the debate about what the death star interior should look like, some say it should be as neutral grey as possible, while some say it should look blueish green, much like poita's 35mm frame he posted here that he says is close to the print themselves in terms of colour:

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Star-Wars-1977-releases-on-35mm/post/684304/#TopicPost684304

I've been experimenting to try and get that blueish green colour in the death star. Here are two screencaps, one using my current settings with a more neutral looking deathstar interior, the other with a bit of blueish green added to better match the Death Star walls of the frame poita posted:

More neutral Death Star Interior:

More blueish green Death Star interior:

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Which do people prefer, the more neutral Death Star interior shot or the one where the Death Star interior od more blueish green and more closely matches the interior colours of poita's frame?

You can see the difference better by opening them up in seperate windows and switching between them.

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I prefer the more neutral colors as well.

“That’s impossible, even for a computer!”

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Cheers for the feedback guys! I agree that the more neutral death star interior looks better so that's what i'm going to go with.

R2D2's colour is also something that i'm not certain about, his colour tends to change a fair bit throughout the film due to differing lighting i'd imagine so i'm trying to get them looking as accurate as possible. Can you guys here tell me which one of these two screencaps look more accurate in terms of R2D2's colours, the first or the second?

Again you can see the difference better by opening them up in seperate windows and switching between them.

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I don't know which is the most accurate, I know I prefer the second frame as it looks less heavy and more life like on my screen.

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Again, I agree with Frank678… the stronger blues of the first example may “pop” a bit more, but they look more natural in the second.

“That’s impossible, even for a computer!”

“You don't do ‘Star Wars’ in Dobly.”

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Cheers for the prompt replies! I once again agree with you two that in the second screencap R2D2 looks more 'natural' to me so that's the one to go with.

One last question. Taking into account the fleshtones of luke and uncle owen, getting the colour of C3P0 and R2D2 right and everything else, which of these two screencaps do you prefer, the first or the second?

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the balances look more natural on the 2nd frame for me

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R2 rarely looks as blue in reality as he is in the blu-ray, so I'd say reducing it is better.

On a different note, the thing about the blu-ray that most stands out for me is how everything which is supposed to be white has been pulled down into a greenish or bluish murk. See Luke and Leia on the Death Star shot you posted. Leia's dress is supposed to be a cream color, and Luke's shirt has very little green in it, however in most of the blu-ray their clothes look green. On the R2 shot you posted, I always check the white background at the edge of the frame, but here again it's green. This shift makes C-3PO look too green as well.

My method for correcting this persistent green shift in the mid-highlights has been to isolate four or five levels of luminance throughout the movie (deep shadows, shadows, midtones, mid-highlights, highlights) and add blue and red to the mid-highlights, and then adjust the brightest highlights to keep them neutral in terms of color cast.

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I think the overall picture is very similar, maybe a slight edge on the second, but the fleshtones are definitely more natural in the second. They're a bit greenish on the first.

“That’s impossible, even for a computer!”

“You don't do ‘Star Wars’ in Dobly.”

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Cheers guys!

Unfortunately you guys have put me in two minds again because the second screencap that you both prefered from the third comparison uses my current settings while the second screencap you liked in the second comparison with R2D2 uses the same modified settings as the first screencap in the third comparison, the one that has slightly more green fleshtones that you didn't like so much.

I was kinda hoping you'd choose the first screencap from the third comparison and make my life easier haha. Getting the fleshtones right are the most important thing of all so it looks like i'm staying with my current settings.

NeverarGreat, sounds like you're using a far more complex program than I am, i'm not able to target deep shadows, shadows, midtones, mid-highlights, highlights seperately and change their respective colours.

As for white balance, I'm happy as far as that is concerned, all the light sources that are meant to be white are white with my settings throughout the whole film, I used when leia and darth vader are talking on tantive IV to get that just right, at least to my eye.

The colour of clothes will change throughout the film according to the colour of the different light sources, so leia is not always going to look whiter than white, she will only look totally white when she is being hit by a white light source like on tantive IV, which has the white lights on the corridor ceiling, otherwise the white of her robes will be tinted by the colour of the light source that's hitting her in that scene. Correct me if I'm wrong but as far as i'm aware that is how light works. And this is of course not taking into account any colour grading that GL and co may have applied for specific locations that will make the colours of the clothes vary even more. 

In my experience white light sources are a far more reliable way to get the correct white balance of a film than clothes.

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I think that it's undeniable that different lighting situation will give different values to each of the colors in the shot. If you keep giving us more shots, I think the same thing will happen; there will be some cases where setting A just happens to look better, whilst in others setting B does. Unless you're going to regrade the film on a shot-by-shot basis, you're going to get some variation in responses.

“That’s impossible, even for a computer!”

“You don't do ‘Star Wars’ in Dobly.”