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Star Trek Theatrical versions - question

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I've just bought all 10 double-DVD versions of all Star Trek movies and I was surprised, that (at least) the movies 1,2, and 6 are NOT the theatrical versions.
I like the "new" versions of these movies, but I would also like to have the original unaltered theatrical versions of these movies. I've read somewhere, that parts 1 & 2 where released a long time ago (in a galaxy far, far away ... ) on single-disc editions, but these were NOT released here :-(
A couple of questions :
1) Does anybody here have the single-disc editions ? Do they contain really the theatrical version ? If yes, are they still "available" somewhere ?
2) Was ST6 also released in it's theatrical version ? Because even the VHS tape I've bought AGES ago (around 1993 ? ) has the "special edition" with the alternate ending (the assassin was not a Klingon, but "Odo") and added scenes ("Klingons have no tear ducts"). The sleave of the DVD actually does NOT note that it's not the theatrical version.
3) Are there also other "special editions" on the 2DVD sets, or are movies 3,4,5,7,9,10 the theatrical versions ? Because I didn't note any changes.
4) If the theatrical versions of some of these movies were NOT released, are there some "restoration projects" going on ?
Thanks
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I have the single-disc DVDs, for 2 through 10. They should be available, in R1 and PAL, if you can import them.


IMDB has an "alternate versions" link for the movies. They aren't always accurate, but they're pretty good about versions.

ST I, TMP, only had the Director's Edition DVD release.

But the HD version, that I downloaded, appears to be the theatrical version. However, Neil S. Bulk had read that there was some color-correction, because it was made from the digital master that sourced the DVD re-version. I haven't done a shot-by-shot comparison to my LD, yet. I once publicly stated my desire to, perhaps, someday, convert it to DVD, as well as reconstruct the extended version. Unfortunatally, that would be months or years away, if ever. Maybe someone else? I could send them the HD files.


IMDB seems to say that the 1st DVD release, of ST II, is the theatrical version, if I read it correctly.

Also, according to them, both DVD versions of III, IV, V, VII (Generations), VIII (FC), IX (Insurrection), and the widescreen version of X (Nemesis) were the theatrical. (Excepting the Fullscreen Nemesis DVD - which was cropped to Fullscreen).


And IMDB says that none of the released versions of ST VI match the Theatrical scenes, exactly. Even the Laserdisc & VHS versions.

I suspect the HD version, that I downloaded, matches what they list for the theatrical scenes, but I haven't checked it scene-by-scene.


For Aspect Ratio purists, you can't get ST6 in the Theatrical aspect ratio, which IMDB says was 2.31:1. (As far as I know). But at least you will be seing more of the picture, than was in the theater.

ST6 was shot full-frame (Super 35). Both DVD's have the matte opened, significantly. So does the HD that I downloaded. Star Trek films on VideoDisc says all the Widescreen Laserdiscs are 2.1:1. IMDB says 2.1:1 on its alternate versions page, but says 2.35:1 on its Laserdisc specs page. Either way, I didn't get the widescreen LD, yet, so I can't vouch for either claim.

I do have the fullscreen LD, with the matte opened up father - but, like most open-mattes, it's zoomed in far more than seems nessecary - we still don't see the whole picture. I'd love to see a good conversion of that.

They also claim 2.35:1 for all the movies in some of the collections. But that's unlikely.

The director supervised the opening of the matte, for the Collector's Edition. The first DVD's playback looks a little squished, horizontally, to me.


The ST6 HD version, that I got, is roughly 2.01:1, but I suspect it may have been released to theaters, that way, to be "soft matted" by the projector. So it could be possible to crop it and get what we saw in the theaters - but there'd be no way to verify it.

(The DVDs measure out to roughly 1.95:1 for the first, and 1.98 for the second, by the way. I say roughly because I didn't crop every pixel of black off of each edge).

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pittrek, try this website :

http://www.dvdcompare.net/

It's great for comparisons of different releases of DVDs. It should be able to help find which versions are available and where.
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Thanks.

>>
ST I, TMP, only had the Director's Edition DVD release.


I was referring to a dvdtown.com article, which says that the 1. release was the theatrical, but as I wrote, the single-disc editions were not released here.
Hm, the HD files were an serious offer :-) ?

Don't you guys know if someone re-created the theatrical version of ST6 or at least what were the changes between theatrical and home video veersions ?

BTW Merry X-Mas 2 All
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Originally posted by: pittrek
Thanks.

Hm, the HD files were an serious offer :-) ?

I you want to convert them to DVD, sure. Otherwise, well, I don't wanna be cold-blooded, but I do my best to avoid sending things in the mail, and I don't want to open the floodgates. So far, I've only sent things that are important to a project, or the wider distribution, or to get something important to a project. (I hate taking 20 minutes, stop-and-go, to go two miles, I hate getting there before closing, and I hate the 40 minute waits in line, and, well, a couple of people can vouch for how damned long it takes me to get around to it. And I hate waiting to find out if it got lost, or not, and hate waiting for stuff to reach me, and...).

I could repost it to Usenet, but a repost just barely expired. I refuse to put my name on a Torrent, but if someone wants to torrent them, I could send them to that person.


I was referring to a dvdtown.com article, which says that the 1. release was the theatrical, but as I wrote, the single-disc editions were not released here.

They goofed on the TMP movie, the Director's Edition was the only dvd. Do you have the link to the article? I gave up trying to dig it up.

Don't you guys know if someone re-created the theatrical version of ST6 or at least what were the changes between theatrical and home video veersions ?


Don't know of anyone who's recreated them. They haven't posted about it anywhere I've been.


Looking at IMDB's list (Link), it looks like a person would only need to trim a few scenes off of the 1st ST VI DVD, unless there's music in the way (not counting the aspect ratio thing):

"The original theatrical release (U.S.) did not include the portion of the scene in the Federation President's office where Col. West outlined his plan to rescue Kirk & McCoy. Also at the climax of the film, the bit where the Klingon assassin is revealed to be none other than Col. West was not included."

The HD doesn't have those added scenes.


"The original ending credits, after the sign-off, has a blue/white background with a Starfleet Logo as a watermark. The left side was blue with white lettering, and the right side was white with blue lettering."

The HD version's credits don't have that logo or background, just colored lettering on stars. Dunno what's up with that.


"Additional inclusions for home video include extra dialog for Spock in the top brass meeting"

There's no difference with the HD version. I suspect IMDB goofed, here. They could only be referring to the scene where Spock makes his speech, as far as I can tell. Or maybe the HD is some weird hybrid.


"and a scene where Scotty verifies torpedo inventory, Valaris mentions the Chancelor's daughter has succeeded her dead father (she heard it on "the news") and Scotty mentions that the daughter never cried over the death of her father. Spock also mentions that Klingons have no tear ducts."

The torpedo inventory, and the tear duct scenes are bridged by them going through a corridor, and Valeris sliding down a pole. They aren't on the HD.

I like the inventory scene. The "tear ducts" line would be an unbelievable error for Spock to make. Lachrymal glands produce the tear fluid; tear ducts are the drains. Besides, it wasn't that funny, IMO.


And your version has a few more changes:

"The Special Collector's Edition DVD includes all the new scenes from the home video releases, and a few new minor changes to certain scenes and effects exclusive to this DVD.

* When Martia gets shot, a disruption sound effect is removed to make her scream more apparent.
* There is a new wide shot of Scotty reading the blueprints of the Enterprise in the dining hall.
* Valeris's interrogation scene has been entirely reedited. There are now close up shots of Kirk and McCoy when they speak their lines instead of being in wide shots. When Spock and Valeris name a particular conspirator, the face of that person briefly appears in a flashback like style."


The "new wide shot", is an earlier moment from that wide shot where he gets up to see the noise.


The interrogation scene thing... on one hand, I like the idea of seeing who is being named, it's not easy to remember characters from the beginning. On the other hand, it looks tacky and sensationalistic, and it reminds me I'm watching a movie - takes me right out of a very intense scene.


EDIT: By the way, I was searching out threads, for the next reply, and I noticed you asked about "The Cage", long long ago. It was released on DVD. Both the color and the color/B&W versions are on the last volume of the 2-episode-per-disc DVD set. Volume 40. I'm pretty sure its in the 3rd Season Box Set, too.



BTW Merry X-Mas 2 All


You mean the X-Mas as in Futurama? Heh. Merry Christmas, and Happy New Year.

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ST1 TMP is showing in the UK on BBC 2 on Saturday 23rd December. wether it's the WS version or the TC is unknown but i will be recording it.
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I believe the 2-disc set of the director's cut actually includes the original versions of scenes as bonus amterial on disc two. Assuming all of it's on there, it shouldn't be hard to edit together.
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I think its kind of funny that we have countless preservations of the OOT taken from laserdisc and other sources, but not much has been done with Star Trek. The theatrical edition of ST:TMP was on laserdisc, and there was some talk about transferring it, but as far as I know, nobody has transferred it to DVD. There were several other Star Trek related things that also, as far as I know, never been put on DVD, such as the 25th anniversary Special, that was released on Laserdisc as well, I believe. There are probably some other things that I'm missing.
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I was intending to do an HD to DVD PAL conversion of star trek the movie theatrical edition in time for christmas as I hinted at on 'another' site a while ago. but junked it in the end thinking there would be not much interest.
Maybe I should do then?.... would only take a day or so to convert it. was thinking no menus just the film. then i'll send it to some of the torrenters/uploaders just after the christmas period.
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@CW: Holy crap! That'd be awesome. I don't recall reading that, if I was where you was.

I, ahem, could use something to upload to the newsgroups, ahem.


@Bigrob: Right on! I can't wait to hear which version it is.


@Number20: Yeah, I'm jealous of all that's been accomplished in the SW preservation realm. Sigh... There has been some done in Trek, tho'. Still a bunch left to do. Not as much as SW, Paramount hasn't leaked nearly as much as Lucasfilm, and they haven't done as much revising. I've been meaning to post more in the Preserving Star Trek thread that just scrolled off... Heh, it's a bad idea to wait for me to get things done.

At the risk of duplicating some of what I would put there:

Early in this thread Hiphats mentions he has a widescreen preservation of TMP. I assumed it was LD, but, rereading it, he didn't actually say. If it's LD, I'll bet it has glorioius PCM sound.

And over here Ash595 did a LD conversion of the 25th Anniversary. He's going to be making a cover for it. I recently sent him a scan of the VHS, I hope that works out.

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CW, that could RAWK! Please do do that!

Jaiman, if you're referring to the post by hiphats in that thread, I have the preservation he's referring to. It's two discs and does indeed have PCM sound.

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I will be running a PIF of the version that CW does once I get a copy of it. If anyone wants to join in on the chain, let me know after I get the dvd.

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Originally posted by: pittrek

3) Are there also other "special editions" on the 2DVD sets, or are movies 3,4,5,7,9,10 the theatrical versions ? Because I didn't note any changes.


I seem to remember reading that there was a line of dialouge not present on the First Contact DVD that was heard in the theatre, the line was from Kelsey Grammer as Captain Bateson of the USS Bozeman responding to Picard's order of attack, this was widely regarded as not being true until the line turned up in the HD version.
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Originally posted by: Max_Rebo
Originally posted by: pittrek

3) Are there also other "special editions" on the 2DVD sets, or are movies 3,4,5,7,9,10 the theatrical versions ? Because I didn't note any changes.


I seem to remember reading that there was a line of dialouge not present on the First Contact DVD that was heard in the theatre, the line was from Kelsey Grammer as Captain Bateson of the USS Bozeman responding to Picard's order of attack, this was widely regarded as not being true until the line turned up in the HD version.


USS Bozeman was that Soyuz class starship from the Deja Vu episode, wasn't it? I don't remember seeing such an old ship in the movie...

EDIT
Oh wait, it was the ship that flew across the screen after the Borh ship exploded, right?

I do have a theatrical version of ST:TMP, but it was sourced from a VHS and is P&S...

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damn i forgot to record it off BBC2! sorry guys!!! but if there is gonna be a HD2DVD coversion, could i put myself down for one!
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Originally posted by: bigrob
damn i forgot to record it off BBC2! sorry guys!!! but if there is gonna be a HD2DVD coversion, could i put myself down for one!

Drat.

I was quietly hoping you'd say you got an Extended edition. Even if it was narrowscreen or a pillarboxed widescreen broadcast, a DVR recording of the audio would be great, with the letterboxed deleted scenes, for a restoration. The LD only has analog sound, and I don't know if a VHS HiFi Stereo track can be affected by tape stretch.

By the way, would it have been on a DVR? Does BBC2 broadcast widescreen?

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Originally posted by: Max_Rebo
Originally posted by: pittrek

3) Are there also other "special editions" on the 2DVD sets, or are movies 3,4,5,7,9,10 the theatrical versions ? Because I didn't note any changes.


I seem to remember reading that there was a line of dialouge not present on the First Contact DVD that was heard in the theatre, the line was from Kelsey Grammer as Captain Bateson of the USS Bozeman responding to Picard's order of attack, this was widely regarded as not being true until the line turned up in the HD version.


Sorry guys. You probably were reading me. And I seem to have got it wrong, somehow. I went to get the audio clip, and didn't hear it on the HD. I thought this version of VLC was playing tricks... so I split the channels, and nada.

I'm still scratching my head... I can't imagine any other version it could be in. We do have a Grammer-like voice say "Acknowledged", when the Defiant and Bozeman are ordered to fall back - but that's on the DVD. PowerDvd was still set on point in the DVD where I remember hearing "Bozeman, acknowledged" on the HD. Weird...

Anyway, I'm going to go edit a retraction, to the original post, so this bad information propagate from there, anymore.


Originally posted by: iRantanplan
USS Bozeman was that Soyuz class starship from the Deja Vu episode, wasn't it? I don't remember seeing such an old ship in the movie...

EDIT
Oh wait, it was the ship that flew across the screen after the Borh ship exploded, right?


Yeah, the episode's name was "Cause and Effect." I don't know if that shot is a Soyuz or not... I'm not very good with ship class.

The Soyuz class was retired in 2288, but the Bozeman had been preserved in the time loop, so it would've been in good shape. The Encyclopedia asserts that the Bozeman was recertified. (The Encyclopedia says that Brannon Braga intended that when he wrote it into "All Good Things", "Generations", and "First Contact". Braga's hometown was Bozeman, Montana, Braga was the one responsible for naming it for "Cause and Effect"). Starfleet keeps their starships running for a long time (according the the Tech Manual, at least). The Soyuz is little different from the Miranda, which is a very old design, that was still around in the Dominion war.

Here's a fun factoid, that I can't find the official source of, so I can't prove it. Somewhere in the planning stages for "Cause and Effect", they wanted to have First Officer Saavik on the bridge, next to Captain Morgan Bateman... Kirstey Alley and Kelsey Grammer. It fell through for some reason. Dagnabbit.

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Originally posted by: Jaiman Tuckuh
Originally posted by: bigrob
damn i forgot to record it off BBC2! sorry guys!!! but if there is gonna be a HD2DVD coversion, could i put myself down for one!

Drat.

I was quietly hoping you'd say you got an Extended edition. Even if it was narrowscreen or a pillarboxed widescreen broadcast, a DVR recording of the audio would be great, with the letterboxed deleted scenes, for a restoration. The LD only has analog sound, and I don't know if a VHS HiFi Stereo track can be affected by tape stretch.

By the way, would it have been on a DVR? Does BBC2 broadcast widescreen?


BBC2 does brodcast widescreen but i don't know if it would have been cropped to 1.85:1. it would have been on DVR then dubbed onto DVD+R.......... But i forgot to set it!

Damn!!!!!!

I'll keep a look out just in case it's on again!

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Originally posted by: bigrob
Originally posted by: Jaiman Tuckuh
By the way, would it have been on a DVR? Does BBC2 broadcast widescreen?


BBC2 does brodcast widescreen but i don't know if it would have been cropped to 1.85:1. it would have been on DVR then dubbed onto DVD+R.......... But i forgot to set it!

Damn!!!!!!

I'll keep a look out just in case it's on again!

I dont want to even think of all the times I've missed stuff...

Good luck!

Merry Christmas!

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Originally posted by: iRantanplan
Oh wait, it was the ship that flew across the screen after the Borh ship exploded, right?


Nope, that was an Akira class. Most certainly not Soyuz.
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The BBC2 version was cropped, but it was the theatrical version, last time they showed it it was the directors cut. the quality wasn't all that great - not on freeview anyway, bitrate average was about 3mbps. didnt cap it, woke up halfway through it.

PAL version is done. decided against menu's in the end, so basically you got the film anamorphic CCE 5pass in DD5.1 PAL
Im also doing an NTSC version thats encoding now, will be after boxing day when I finish that because im away.

-edit-

Also I didnt put the subs on, they are hardcoded into the video and they are sure ugly too. can't do much about it, the directors cut used different takes from slight different angles so I cant use those to paint them out.
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I would love to see the HD version Jaiman Tuckuh has possibly converted to a dual layer dvd or even a high bitrate encode XVID.

I would not even mind seing it in it's original form on my hard drive.

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Wow, so many trekkies here

They goofed on the TMP movie, the Director's Edition was the only dvd. Do you have the link to the article? I gave up trying to dig it up.
As I see they are currently re-designing the whole website, that can be the problem. But I probably still have somewhere the articles (I downloaded them maybe a year ago - oops, it's actually 2 years ago now ), so if you want them, I can search for them.

EDIT: By the way, I was searching out threads, for the next reply, and I noticed you asked about "The Cage", long long ago. It was released on DVD. Both the color and the color/B&W versions are on the last volume of the 2-episode-per-disc DVD set. Volume 40. I'm pretty sure its in the 3rd Season Box Set, too.

You are slightly right, it was a loooooooooooooooooooooong time ago, but I was actually searching for the complete show aired between season 1 and season 2 of the Next Generation, it had some behind-the-scenes footage plus a hybrid B&W/color version of The Cage, I've seen it only once on SAT 1 and it's title backtranslated from german was something like From one generation to another, it was hosted by Patrick Stewart. Do you know if it was released on some "normal" format ? (NOT laserdisc or something similar, laserdisc is something completely unknown in this part of Europe).
Also, the original series was never released here, and I don't want to buy it from some other country, because it would have no (usable) subtitles and my english is not that good (as you probably noticed from my posts )

You mean the X-Mas as in Futurama? Heh. Merry Christmas, and Happy New Year.
Well, that's funny, I was actually watching that episode of Futurama the day you wrote this

Happy New Year friends.

I believe the 2-disc set of the director's cut actually includes the original versions of scenes as bonus amterial on disc two. Assuming all of it's on there, it shouldn't be hard to edit together.

Yes, you're right. That's exactly what I was planning to do, that's why I have asked the question if anybody else did it allready (I don't want to waste my time with creating something what allready exists).

I will be running a PIF of the version that CW does once I get a copy of it. If anyone wants to join in on the chain, let me know after I get the dvd.

I guess with "PIF" you don't mean the windows shortcut for dos programs Is it the system "I'll send you it for free if you send it for free to someone else" ? If yes, I would be interested.

I seem to remember reading that there was a line of dialouge not present on the First Contact DVD that was heard in the theatre, the line was from Kelsey Grammer as Captain Bateson of the USS Bozeman responding to Picard's order of attack, this was widely regarded as not being true until the line turned up in the HD version.

This can be the truth, I have a DVD with the theatrical version of "First Contact" and it is approx. one minute shorter then the 2disc version. But inclusion of only one line can not be responseable for an extra minute, can it ?

PAL version is done.

Heh ? Did I miss something ? Or better said : how can I get a copy ?
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Originally posted by: pittrek
Wow, so many trekkies here


Yes, there are a quite a few Trek fans here. I believe that our webmaster, Jay, is also a big Trek fan.
Its good to see that there have been some preservations of Trek stuff. Now if we could just get them distributed somewhere.

What else in Trek still needs preservation, besides the stuff already mentioned on this thread?
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