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Pan & Scan O-OT Project (Released)

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I am interested in acquiring pan & scan laserdisc transfers of the O-OT trilogy. These would come in hugely handy if anyone ever wanted to do really beautiful high quality versions of the O-OT on DVD, because for any O-OT scenes that aren’t in the 2004 DVDs, the big pan & scan zoomed image could be placed over the widescreen image, basically doubling the quality, resolution and sharpness. This would not be practical to do for a whole movie, but for the brief snatches of scenes necessary to reconstruct the O-OT, as I did in the original Star Wars Classic Edition, it is the perfect solution.

I asked Russ Dawson about this, and he was stumped, he didn’t think anyone had done pan & scan transfers before. Which seems like an oversight, as anyone wanting a good version of the O-OT should definitely look into trying this.

So, has anyone done pan & scan transfers? Or would be interested in doing so?

Empire and Jedi would interest me most.

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This was discussed awhile back, and while it would be interesting to do for completion's sake, I don't think anyone is in a hurry to do it.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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A pan and scan version! Bring it on! I'm dumb enough to go for it. Just think of all the covers I could make...
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Were the only pan and scan editions released on VHS or did they come out in other formats?
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Originally posted by: Laserman
Were the only pan and scan editions released on VHS or did they come out in other formats?


They have a LD version

Release Format: Laserdisc

Release Date: 1985

Studio: CBS/FOX

Technical Comments: 1.33:1 pan and scan transfer with CX-encoded Stereo Surround sound

Comments: Three Standard-Play CAV discs (Cat# 1425-84)

Other Comments: This edition is not time compressed and also marks the first time ever that fans can analyze the film frame-by-frame (thanks to the CAV format)

THANKS to davisdvd.com for the info!!!!!!!!!!

“My skill are no longer as Mad as the once were” RiK

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The LD database also suggests there are German, Japanese and UK LD versions that are P&S. Nothing as new as or newer than Faces, though, it doesn't look like.
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Interesting idea. But all the domestic CLV LD's with the exception of Jedi were time compressed. (The CAV of Star Wars and Empire are not.) The Japanese versions were not time compressed, but then you have subtitles to worry about. CBS/Fox did not use the best prints they could have at the time, either. It is possible they remastered with better elements for the later digital sound versions in the early 90's. But again, SW and Empire in the U.S. were time compressed. (And no CAV remasters the second time around.)
The other potential problem is if there's an electronic pan going on in the shot you want to lift from. The Jedi ghost scene starts off on the far right of the frame, and then pans all the way to the left after Anakin has already begun to appear.
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Where were you in '77?

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Hmm interesting..

I may have to find at leas tone of those discs and assess the quality.
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I've only just looked it up, but it sounds like time compression might not actually remove any of the frames. It removes some of the repeated fields that have to be inserted to bump the 24fps film up to 30fps video. You could save 20 minutes over 2 hours by doing this all the time, but then the film would run 125% quicker and everyone would sound chipmunks

Which leads me to wonder whether the LD->DVDers among us do remove these repeated fields or if they just put 30fps video onto DVD? And if the source has been time compressed, how do you reverse the pulldown?

David
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I hate Pan and Scan, you can't see the whole picture in the film.
"A Jedi can feel the force flow through him".
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If you place the pan and scan image over the widescreen, wouldn't only half of the picture have better quality while the other half would look fairly bad in comparison?
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The whole image will look pretty clear if done this way, because the Pan & Scan image includes the most important parts of the shot (in a closeup, this is the face of the person talking, which is the only part that needs to be seen clearly) ... a bit of sharpening will bring the rest of the widescreen image up to the same level of apparent sharpness, and it will simply look like a great transfer.

You might recall that I was easily able to use laserdisc and DVD material in the same frame in Classic Edition, which was a much greater quality difference than this would be. And it looked great.

As far as Sebastian Shaw goes, well, you wouldn't be taking him from the O-OT version anyway. He was in the 1997 Special Edition, which is widely available on high quality on DVD.

As far as the speedup goes, I've had to deal with that before, it's not hard to deal with. Even if time compressed, this would make VERY good raw material for an edit.

But please try to use the CAV non time compressed version, yeah. That would be much less annoying.
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DISAPPOINTED

:taps foot:


I find the lack of progress on this project disturbing.
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"Comparison's sake?"


It amazes me why I have to keep restating why this project is important to create the best quality transfer of the original trilogy on DVD. Please actually read the thread, it's explained in the first post, and again and again ad nauseam.


Anyway.


Pan & Scan, of course, was never popular with the laserdisc/DVD crowd. The nice thing about Pan & Scan laserdiscs being so unwanted, is that they go for cheap.

Consider this Pan & Scan Star Wars for 2 bucks.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=381&item=6410457890&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

Of course I don't really need Star Wars, I need Empire and Jedi, which haven't shown up yet.

Keep watching the skies ...
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Would these do?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=381&item=6409789047&rd=1

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=381&item=6409773195&rd=1
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I actually have all 3 of those laserdiscs, i was gonna capture them but never got to it,i have these:
Star Wars 1 disc CLV cat#5651-80 (its the one you have the link to, ocpmovie)
The Empire Strikes Back 1 disc CLV cat#5652-80
Return of the Jedi 2 disc CLV cat#1478-80
i didnt think anyone liked these.
darkjedi
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I really like the idea - shoot If I can get the LD's I'll have my brother do em

“My skill are no longer as Mad as the once were” RiK

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ocpmovie: You're the only other person I've ever heard talk about this- utilizing pan-scan LD's and superimposing them over the widescreen image to give it more detail. I love the idea and have had it for a long time.

The only problem I was having (which has been mentioned) is the issue of having one half of the screen at a greater detail and resolution than the other. I would hope you wouldn't be able to detect a "box" around the pan-scan addition (different amounts of grain, different print, etc.). There's the risk it might not work out.

But I've had that idea for a long, long time. Good luck!

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If someone wants to send me the discs, I'll take a look and if the quality is up to scratch I would do a transfer.
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Originally posted by: Trooperman
ocpmovie: You're the only other person I've ever heard talk about this- utilizing pan-scan LD's and superimposing them over the widescreen image to give it more detail. I love the idea and have had it for a long time.
I once thought about doing this, but decided it would be far too time consuming to attempt. Basically you need to go through every scene and find out where the scanned portion sits in the widescreen frame. When the scan is "doing a pan", this would have to be on a frame by frame basis.

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dark_jedi, you have these discs? Excellent! Send 'em on to Laserman, or MeBeJedi ... It would be spectacular to finally have a copy of these.



Moth3r - it's not as painstakingly difficult to do as you would think, as I would only be restoring the non special edition shots to a higher quality, not the whole film. Doing a whole film this way would be impractical, but doing the non special edition shots, that's easy enough.

I would not be using shots where the camera pans. That would be impossible to sync up, and the motion blur would remove most of the positives of the larger pan & scan transfer. Widescreen will do fine in these cases.

I had very good luck with superimposing pan & scan images over widescreen images when doing restorations for Deleted Magic and things ... and superimposing laserdisc over DVD images and vice versa. It does seem that because of the nature of film, if the most important part of the shot, that the eye is really looking at, is made at a higher quality, the quality level of the entire shot raises dramatically.
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ocpmovie, i have sw and esb captured and encoded to dvd, i will have rotj done by thursday,and have these in the mail for you by the weekend,i dont really know how much help they will be for your projects, but after watching the first 2, they are gonna add to the collection nicely.
i hope they help
darkjedi
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Just got in dark_jedi's discs, and they are lovely. Bring back a lot of memories of watching the O-OT on home video (pan & scan) all through growing up. It's good to have a high quality DVD of this version of the film ... and of course the discs will be very useful indeed for any O-OT restoration projects anyone might want to undertake.

Return of the Jedi is the gem of the set, as the original laserdisc was on two discs, and the quality is clear and pretty much worthy of DVD. Not to say that Star Wars and Empire aren't pretty good, but "pretty good" is the best description, as both show video grain throughout, a side effect of the original laserdiscs being put on one disc I believe ... and not being very good transfers to begin with. The print of Star Wars used on this laserdisc is a bit washed out in the way all the old home video transfers were ... brings back memories of those versions of the film, has that crappy 1980s feel to it. =D However, the O-OT scenes are quite clear enough - I really could have used this transfer putting together Classic Edition.

Certainly great discs for anyone's collection, and will come in verrry handy for O-OT restorations. Dig it!
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Are there any plans to make these more widely available???

I did put my VHS copies onto DVD but the quality was not very good.


Did the SE ever come out in Pan & Scan LD??

4 - 5 - 3 - 1 - 6 - 2

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