Your Friendly Guide on Belittling Your Neighbor's Beliefs (pamphlet for distribution is pending) — Page 4

darth_ender said:

Ziggy Stardust said:

This thread bores the hell out of me.

Know what's funny?  I get pretty bored even thinking about YouTube movie reviews made by 13 year-olds.  Want to know my solution?  I don't click on the thread.  And if I ever do again, I don't think I'll tell anyone how boring the thought is to me.

I like Ziggy, but this is a fair point.  No need to come into a thread just to say how boring it is.  Unless it's the OR game thread ;-)

By the way...

But his cautionary words served as notice that attacks on faiths should, in his view, be off the table. He appealed to the social conservatives to support a presidential candidate who has the best record on the economy.

I agree with Romney in theory, but here's the problem - since when has religion been off-limits in politics?  I could never, ever run for president for the simple fact that I am agnostic.  I would be slaughtered left and right for my beliefs, and how is that any different?

I would hope I would get the same defense in this thread that Romney does.

I can honestly say that I would provide you with that defense.  I know that Obama is not a Muslim, but even if he were, I would not support him less (that might sound trivial, given I don't support him much, but that lack of support is based on policies, not his supposed religious views--I'm actually impressed with his anti-terrorism success).  If I were convinced that someone had my country's best interests at heart, I would support him insofar as I agreed with his (or her, of course) policies.  This tolerance for other faiths probably is the result of the bigotry that this poor bitter white guy has been subjected to as a Mormon.  I've seen more than Walkinggenitourinaryorgan would care to admit.  So I agree with Romney, attacks on religion (or lack) should be off the table, though I too understand that in practice such is not the case. 

^ Busted!

Three shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three.

Yeah, I know, I've been doing very badly lately.  I'm surprised nobody was calling me out on it.  I've been doing better at balancing my time, so I was bending my own rule.  However, you are right, I need to get back to work.  Thanks for the reminder :)

PS  I just have one more thing to say, then I'll call it a day.

http://news.yahoo.com/egypt-coptic-church-decries-attacks-christians-140330531.html

Nobody run to defend the Christians.  It's not like the whole world's against them.  If you live in Egypt, maybe you can take a stand, but since we live in a Christian dominated country, you can't decry bigotry against Christians.

Sheesh, a certain somebody put me in a mood.  Really, I just think that everyone, everyone needs to be more tolerant.  Bigotry is unwelcome anywhere in my book, not just among majority demographics.

I guess walkingdork didn't mean it when he agreed with me on that point, given his response to this thread.

darth_ender said:

Yeah, I know, I've been doing very badly lately.  I'm surprised nobody was calling me out on it.

We just don't care.

I'd put a winky, but I think there's an element of truth there.  We all have to police our own time.

darth_ender said:

http://news.yahoo.com/egypt-coptic-church-decries-attacks-christians-140330531.html

Nobody run to defend the Christians.  It's not like the whole world's against them.  If you live in Egypt, maybe you can take a stand, but since we live in a Christian dominated country, you can't decry bigotry against Christians.

Um, I think there's a difference between the anti-Christian issues in this country and....well, you know....murder.

TV's Frink said:

darth_ender said:

Yeah, I know, I've been doing very badly lately.  I'm surprised nobody was calling me out on it.

We just don't care.

I'd put a winky, but I think there's an element of truth there.  We all have to police our own time.

 Yeah, I know.  And I can't keep off anyway.  I don't think I'm a star here or anything, but there are a couple, including DoubleKO, who keep reminding me.

TV's Frink said:

darth_ender said:

http://news.yahoo.com/egypt-coptic-church-decries-attacks-christians-140330531.html

Nobody run to defend the Christians.  It's not like the whole world's against them.  If you live in Egypt, maybe you can take a stand, but since we live in a Christian dominated country, you can't decry bigotry against Christians.

Um, I think there's a difference between the anti-Christian issues in this country and....well, you know....murder.

 Frink, I know.  I just am perturbed by walkingdork's comments and taking my point completely incorrectly.  I just don't see him coming to the rescue on such a big issue, but he'll jump all over me and equate me with "bitter whites" if I bring up the hypocrisy of ongoing bigotry towards a majority demographic in our country.  It's like those who are against intolerance don't even recognize how intolerant they can be, and only think it's wrong when committed by a majority group.  It's wrong all the time.  Always.  So Endy is a bit gwumpy wight now.

darth_ender said:

@Mr. Sensitive

First, as was pointed out in the politics thread, Mormons are not considered Christian by a large percentage of Christianity.  Romney is a Mormon.  I am a Mormon.  In this regard, I'm part of a minority, and I'm not too fond of people criticizing my religion.

No criticism meant, but I think it is fairly reasonable for people to consider Mormonism it's own thing, rather than just another Christian denomination. It uses its own unique scriptures that originated in the United States, and teach about Jesus coming to America. This isn't just a unique interpretation of Jesus, these are teachings that are radically different and unique from every other branch of Christianity that came to the world by the hand of a fellow who was well known to be a bit on the sketchy side, written in a language that no real person knows on tablets that were conveniently "lost" after translation. At least other religious documents actually exist and can be studied and compared, the original source for the documents of Mormonism can't even be proven to have ever existed in the first place.

I don't mind an honest inquisition or comments into my belief system, but to publicly say, "Don't vote for Romney.  He's a member of a cult.  We can't have any non-Christians in the White House," is pretty out of bounds in my mind.

Allow me to clarify your comment, and know that because you put things so nicely, I am not offended at all by what you have said.

Mormonism is definitely different from most of Christianity, so I don't mind you calling it "its own thing" (by the way, no apostrophe needed there, wink wink).

Jesus coming to America is not a different interpretation of Jesus, it's (with apostrophe) just an additional something that we believe Jesus did, in addition to all the same stuff most Christians accept (remember, we believe in the Bible as well).  The unique interpretation that I believe infuriates most "mainstream" Christians is the belief that the Trinity does not represent different aspects of a single Deity, but rather three separate Deities who are perfectly united as one.  A Jesus who is separate from the Father is considered heretical in spite of historical precedent, biblical/linguistic evidence, etc.  Thus, Mormons believe in a "different Jesus" and are not true Christians.  I can understand this distinction far more than the "coming to America" bit, but still, we believe in a divine Christ who did all the same things that other Christians believe, so why exclude us based on a different definition of aspects of his nature?  What if we are absolutely correct on the nature of Christ (after all, we claim our information came by revelation from God and not through philosophical debate after debate over hundreds of years and various ecumenical councils)?  I still wouldn't feel right excluduing everyone else from the enviable Christian label.

As for Joseph Smith's character, the convenient absence (not loss) of the Book of Mormon source material, I will not delve too deeply into the topic at present (though I would love to, perhaps at a later time, maybe in a unique thread), I will say that the 11 other witnesses who saw the golden tablets all died without ever denying its actuality, though the majority were estranged from the Church and even bitter against Joseph Smith at some point of their lives, even up to the deaths of several.  The Bible's manuscripts may be compared for its various discrepencies and alternate readings, as may the Qu'ran and other religious texts.  The evidence of the existence of many artifacts, structures, or political situations is valuable, but many anthropologists discount much of the biblical narrative because they don't believe they are supported with real evidence.  Ultimately, you still have to take certain aspects of your belief system on faith, and the difference between a "traditional" Christian's evidence and the evidence of a Mormon Christian is the timeframe we are investigating and questioning.

darth_ender said:

Ziggy Stardust said:

This thread bores the hell out of me.

Know what's funny?  I get pretty bored even thinking about YouTube movie reviews made by 13 year-olds.  Want to know my solution?  I don't click on the thread.  And if I ever do again, I don't think I'll tell anyone how boring the thought is to me.

Oops! Let me try to explain what I meant in that post. I was referring to twooffour, I guess I wasn't being very clear.

Sorry about that. Unless that is what upset you....

Sorry, I was being a bit oversensitive due to the posts immediately before and after yours.  Though I'd probably be a little annoyed, I wouldn't have minded as much under normal circumstances.  Apology accepted, and I apologize as well.  Even if you had meant it the way I thought, I still would have liked you (I meant to agree with Frink on that one).  Like Thomas the Tank Engine, I was "cross."  I spend too much time watching my kids' movies :)

Glad to get it cleared up.

:-)

I thought you were gone.

I truly know it's hard to convey something in type because of a lack of vocal inflections, but I'll give you a hint about my calling you Mr. Sensitive: I was using something that begins with sar- and ends in -casm.  You don't seem to care about anyone's plight if they are not among The Protected.  If you can't reply to my point, but instead try to get at my "sensitivity," then don't bother replying at all.

Sarshizzlefocasm?

Man, these word guessing games are hard.

darth_ender said:

Besides, since my brillian thread over here was locked,

hmm, lets test if it really is locked . . .

If you are seeing this, the thread is not locked.

Warbler said:

darth_ender said:

Besides, since my brillian thread over here was locked,

hmm, lets test if it really is locked . . .

If you are seeing this, the thread is not locked.

Locked in August, unlocked in September…

…of 2011.

So NOW we’ve found the TRUE Worst! Necrobump! EVER!!!

My Super-Sentient Pseudo-Deity, this Darth Endless has some serious personal demons!