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Why Leia remembers Padme but Luke doesn't

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OK, I know this has been discussed in another thread, but this possible continuity issue is driving me nuts. Here are the two official quotes we have regarding this

"The part that I had never really developed is the death of Luke and Leia's mother. I had a back story for her in earlier drafts, but it basically didn't survive. When I got to JEDI, I wanted one of the kids to have some kind of memory of her because she will be a key figure in the new episodes I'm writing."

--George Lucas, Star Wars-The Return Of The Jedi: Annotated Screenplay, 1997

"Leia's recollection as described in Return of the Jedi have no inherent flaws and are valid given the greater context of the saga. But I suspect those looking for contradictions always find them."

--Rick McCallum
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Leia remembers her, and Luke doesn't. Luke is focused on his father throughout the OT except for one moment in ROTJ, so this shouldn't come as a suprise.

Force use was never perfect. Even Yoda couldn't tell the future for certain in ESB, and Palps made some significant errors in ROTJ.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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Yeah, but the scene un ROTS didn't help things. Luke spent more time with Padme than Leia. In fact, Leai never even came as close to Leia as her feet. And, as Padme died, Luke was right beside her. WTF was Lucas thinking? He could have done it exactly the other way around and it would have worked better.
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He could have not have her die at all, and we could have easily assumed that she dies in between III and IV. And it could have been the same 'died of a broken-heart' story. Padmé lives with the Organas on Alderaan for say, 3 years, and then dies, so the Organas adopt Leia.
MTFBWY. Always.

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"The part that I had never really developed is the death of Luke and Leia's mother. I had a back story for her in earlier drafts, but then I got distracted by a shiny object."

--George Lucas


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"Luke spent more time with Padme than Leia. In fact, Leai never even came as close to Leia as her feet. And, as Padme died, Luke was right beside her. WTF was Lucas thinking?"

You presume it had anything to do with the actual experiences of the babies. They are just babies, you know. Obi-wan told us everything we need to know.

Through the Force, things you will see. Other places. The future... the past. Old friends long gone.


This is what allows her to see her mother, not infant memories. Since she still denies having Force abilities at this point (despite "hearing" Luke at Bespin), she thinks these visions are memories.

Luke didn't have visions of his mother, and Leia certainly didn't have any visions of her father. In this respect, they are quite equal.




Man...now I remember why I got burned out on T.n.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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I know how you feel. A few days at that place'll put some hair on your rump.

Sorry... just... Don't agree at all. Luke's mr. force master and hasn't had the tiniest memory of his mom while leia remembers her every sparkling detail. That's just too impossible. Even if they were feelings, the term memory implies that they're not recurring hallucinations of some beautiful woman she can't identify, but real stored images and feelings from her past kept inside forever. Even if she had dreams of some woman, beautiful, kind, but sad are all she's coming away from them with? She wouldn't even know who that woman was unless Padme could talk to leia. It's still too vague for that to be the definite answer.
He big in nothing important in good elephant.

"Miss you, I will, Original Trilogy..."

"Your midichlorians are weak, Old man." -Darth Vader 2007 super deluxe extra special dipped in chocolate sauce edition.

http://prequelsstink.ytmnd.com/
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"while leia remembers her every sparkling detail."

Uhm...

"Just...images, really. Feelings. She was very beautiful. Kind, but...sad. Why are you asking me all this?"

Are these the "sparkling details" you refer to?

Keep in mind, also, that Yoda and Palpatine, arguably far stronger in the Force than Luke, missed crucial details of the future. Vader, born of the Force, didn't notice his daughter right in front of him TWICE, and almost shot down his own son!

You expect far more of Force use than it has ever observed to be used in the films.

"Even if they were feelings, the term memory implies that they're not recurring hallucinations of some beautiful woman she can't identify,"

First of all, what do you know about force visions? Considering wht you call "sparkling details", any other conclusions you might come up with about the implication of certain terms are suspect. She calls them "memories" because that's what they seem like to her. Immediately after this, she states
"You have a power I--I don't understand and could never have." ...so why on earth would she call them anything other than what they appear to be to her? You are completely ignore her frame of reference here.

We, the audience, know they are Force visions. She does not.

"She wouldn't even know who that woman was unless Padme could talk to leia."

Sigh.....

LUKE: Leia! Leia's my sister.

BEN: Your insight serves you well.
LUKE: Yes. It's you Leia.

LEIA: I know. Somehow...I've always known.


The clues are RIGHT THERE in the dialogue. Just as she "knows" Luke is her brother, she also "knows" that the visions of the woman she sees are of her "real" mother. The Force gives knowledge, but the user may not always be aware of where the knowledge is coming from. This is what gave Anakin his "fast reflexes" in pod-racing - he received glimpses of the future.

I might also remind you that Luke sensed something "familiar" watching him on Dagobah. Since the PT makes it abundantly clear that Luke was not born on or taken to Dagobah prior to ESB, then the familiarity was with Yoda, who later explained he'd been watching Luke for a long time. (Thank God that little theory got put to rest.)

The point being, Luke "knew" something, but didn't know exactly what it was.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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That makes sense. One thing I'm still hung up on is why the force wouldn't let Luke know about his mother, but I guess it's just the 'will' they speak of then. Oh and I know you meant dagobah instead of tatooine. It's cool. And you seem rather annoyed by my post... sorry about that.
He big in nothing important in good elephant.

"Miss you, I will, Original Trilogy..."

"Your midichlorians are weak, Old man." -Darth Vader 2007 super deluxe extra special dipped in chocolate sauce edition.

http://prequelsstink.ytmnd.com/
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Sorry...I'm not annoyed at you, just that these kinds of discussions get on my nerves after years of discussing them ad nauseum. They are the primary reason why I left TF.n. Up until recently, these boards were rather free of them. My apologies.

"Oh and I know you meant dagobah instead of tatooine."

Oops...better fix that.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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I always thought it would be more dramatic if Padme did not die, but was forced to chose which child to take to Alderran. Kenobi and Yoda could have told her because they are in danger being with the force, splitting them up makes sense that atleast one can survive if the other twin is found.

Then you could have a dramatic moment for Padme to chose which child to take. You could have her sobbing as she decides to take Leia, and Kenobi wisks Luke away to Tattoine. You could have her one more time arguing with Kenobi to keep both children, but in the end for their safety, she knows they are right. In a sense that would have been just as tragic as Padme dying, having her husband turn to the darkside and losing a child because they are in danger from him.

They could have then faked Padme's death at the end of ROTS, and assume she dies between III & IV, and then Leia remembering her mom would make sense, but still be dramatic.

The prequels.....what if......We could write a book on this stuff.
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i think mebejedi makes some good points here about leia having more of a 'force-induced' memory of her mother. but i dont believe anyone had that in mind when the dialog was written, and it would have been just as easy to make the new film agree with the past ones, but Lucas just doesnt care enough about his own work to do that. im sure this whole thing has been discussed alot, but it really wasnt a problem until all of us saw the last 10 minutes of ROTS and said 'what the fuck, jesus christ, goddamnit'., and so forth.
thank the maker
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Agreed.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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lucas is 'just a point of view' kinda guy, cant you people see that?!
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Why Leia remembers Padme but Luke doesn't: because it's a plothole.
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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Originally posted by: ricarleite
Why Leia remembers Padme but Luke doesn't: because it's a plothole.

It wasn't a plothole back in '83 though.

War does not make one great.

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Originally posted by: ricarleite
Why Leia remembers Padme but Luke doesn't: because it's a plothole.


Might not be, though.
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All children are different. Some remember things that others can't.
It's human nature...we're not computers.
I think we're all reading too much into one little line of dialog!

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Originally posted by: HotRod

I think we're all reading too much into one little line of dialog!



That may be the case. Maybe there's something obvious that we're all missing.
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Originally posted by: Yoda Is Your Father
Originally posted by: ricarleite
Why Leia remembers Padme but Luke doesn't: because it's a plothole.

It wasn't a plothole back in '83 though.


Text


That is the difference between the OT & PT, and why there are no plotholes for the OT. When the OT was made, not everything was explained, not everything went into detail, so you could question on why something was that way, Leia remembering her mom, but Luke not? But in the end, we never got any backstory, so in a sense the vague story of each character in the OT made it easy not to question any plot holes.

Now on to the PT, the reason for the PT, is to explain everything that led up to the OT. Now this is hard if everything isn't planned out, as Lucas just had 25 pages of rough notes. Everything in Episodes I, II, and III has to be described and double checked to match the OT or you will start to find many contradictions in the overall story. That is why the PT, for me personaly, doesn't match up well with the OT, and I have a hard time watching 1-6, and not notice these major flaws in the story.

And I still don't buy Leia remembering her mom through force memories, that is such a lazy excuse, and it cheapens the force.
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Originally posted by: CO
And I still don't buy Leia remembering her mom through force memories, that is such a lazy excuse, and it cheapens the force.


It reminds me that Treehouse of Terror episode of the Simpsons, with the actress who played Xena, and the fans ask her about a continuity error, and she replies, "Yeah, well, everytime you guys see those kinds of things... it's magic."

Same thing, with force. It's the Hitchcock's McGuffin for every single plothole and incosistence on the saga. Just... blame the force.
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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Maybe there simply IS no good reason why Leia remembers Padme but Luke doesn't.
I'd like a qui-gon jinn please with an Obi-Wan to go.

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