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What could have made the PT better?

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Yes, yes, very generic, but you know that there had to be a thread for it. Here's one point in the star wars RP thread I found interesting:
"I think the clone wars was what you said... both sides developed clones and duked it out, with the Jedi trying to restore order in between, maybe... or on one of the sides."

The Jedi being mediators instead of fighting for the Republic would have worked much better IMO.

A Goon in a Gaggle of 'em

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hmm intriguing... I think that would have been cool, now that I think of what I said! (albeit just for fun)

how would it work (in plot logistics and what kind of a group would these Jedi be)?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/Lord_Phillock/starwarssig.png

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Congradulations! bkev, you have become the 100th poster to post this exact same thread! Your prize will be in the post tomorrow!

Just playing. This have been posted over and over, but you're new here so it is forgivable

Seriously, when I read your question the words, "plot", "story", "directing" and "acting" come to mind.

bkev, some of what you are reading in the RPG thread is just nonsense, but a lot of it is actually references to what was speculated about for many years. We have known pretty much nothing of the Clone Wars for over 20 years other than its name and the suggestion that it involved cloning. It had always been said that Boba Fett's armour was left over from the clone wars, and that Boba Fett may have even been a surviving clone. So, many of us had this image of all these guys in Boba Fett style armour fighting against the republic, with maybe the Jedi participating on the Republic's side, or trying to mediate and make peace. Some have even thought that there might have been Jedi cloning going on as well. I myself always believed the reason cloning was involved was to duplicate the best fighters. This was way before Dolly the sheep, back when cloning seemed so much more like a sci-fi sort of idea than a scientific one. Back then when we thought of cloning in a scifi context, I don't think too many of us thought of needles and embryos and babies in test tubes. I imagined they would have machines you would step into, and out would step two of you. And in this way both sides would be able to produce ridiculously large quantities of troops. Imagine how chaotic that would be? A war like that could go on literally forever. No matter how many casualties each side has they would just keep cloning new troops. It would be terrible, the whole galaxy becoming a war zone, innoccent people getting caught up in the cross fire and no end to the war in sight. Just endless destruction. If it was something like that it would make a ton of sense for the Jedi to have to step in and say, "Uh, this has to stop..."

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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"What could have made the PT better?"

The first thing that comes to mind is, a different director. Second, a different producer. Rick McCallum is too much of an ass kisser and doesn't have the guts to stand up for quality control.
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I will always keep saying the PT should have never been made, and it isn't hindsight now, it is because you cant make a trilogy spanning 7 years and 3 movies where there is NO drama and everyone knows what happens in the end!

Godfather II works cause it is sprinkled flashbacks throughout the movie that just tells the viewer how Vito Corleone came to power, but does not really tell a linear story where you are seeing the macro story tie into the story the preceding movie told. Godfather II has about 7-8 well done flashbacks done chronologically to give the viewer a backround of one character.

The PT is a series of movies that we know what happens, so how do you build drama with that? It is also made 16 years after the last movie and every director changes, good or worse, in that timespan, so you may get a different vision that what was suppose to be if the PT were filmed in 1985 or 1986.

I know the PT sounded cool on paper, Anakins turn, the duel, the rise of the Empire, the birth of the kids, but the problem is all of those plot points were answered in our head before we walked into the theater. Lucas should have done 7,8,9 if he was going to do anymore SW, simply cause he could have taken the story ANYWHERE, and there would be some drama in each movie cause you wouldn't know what to expect. Although if Lucas did one prequel as more as a prologue to the OT, that could have worked.
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On the other hand, this means that the PT is still just backstory and not the beginning of the story. Star Wars '77 will always be the beginning of the story, Empire the middle and Jedi the end. The PT was always going to be the backstory simply because it was made later, and much later at that. It's just funny since the prequels ended up making tons of money all the same.
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To get down to just the bare bones of the whole thing, for me, I would of just been happy if there were three well written characters that become good friends that continued through all the 3 films. I tend to watch movies over and over more of the ones with the characters that are fun to watch. I love the bickering friendship of Val and Earl in 'Tremors'. I don't care if the shark in 'Jaws' looks fake, I watch it for those guys on the boat. Or the layered characters in a Tarantino film. Then humor comes out of desperate situations from how well these characters know each other.
Who knew the 'Pirates' films would do so well, since in the past those type movies all failed. But you can tell this director is having a good time. And Johnny Depp is enjoying himself along with everyone else. Who cares what the story is about, audiences respond to the fun adventure ride these characters are on. Then after that, any story can support the characters no matter how lame and plot hole full.
Even in Georges own 'American Graffiti', the story can be summed up in one quick short sentence. But to explain the people and friendships that develop could take pages.
But when it comes to the PT, It's 'Master' this, or 'Padawan' that ,-over and over. Council meetings and Senate debates that seem to endlessly go on and on. Secret conversations, and duel identities. And it appears that none of the actors cares about whats going on or who they were with.

I think George has no clue on how to write a friendship because he has forgotten how to have one. He has surrounded himself by kiss-butts for too long. Nothing comes close in the PT as do the moments of when OBwan was guiding Luke. You can see the bond grow between them scene by scene, and they are only physically together in Star Wars for roughly 30 minutes of screen time.
But of coarse, George had much help and real friends developing the scripts back then.
We've analyzed their attack, sir, and there is a danger.
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Originally posted by: Forbidden Zone
I don't care if the shark in 'Jaws' looks fake, I watch it for those guys on the boat.

That's the essence of that film, the human interaction. Those guys don't particularly like each other, they don't have a great deal in common - and - they're in very close quarters, having to deal with those issues. The shark is just the external force that brings them together. That movie is thick with human interaction and emotion. A great example is when Ellen is saying goodbye to the chief, at the dock. She's already been through a lot and is barely holding together - but when she's walking away and Quint starts yelling at the crew, she finally breaks down and starts running away from there. She's that upset and afraid - and you can feel it. Great stuff. One of my all-time top ten films.


I think George has no clue on how to write a friendship because he has forgotten how to have one. He has surrounded himself by kiss-butts for too long.


There may be something to that. There isn't a series of checks and balances in his world anymore, nor has there been for quite some time. That's not usually a good thing.

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Originally posted by: Anchorhead
Originally posted by: Forbidden Zone
I think George has no clue on how to write a friendship because he has forgotten how to have one. He has surrounded himself by kiss-butts for too long.


There may be something to that. There isn't a series of checks and balances in his world anymore, nor has there been for quite some time. That's not usually a good thing.


There is something to this, in just about every industry I must add. Look at people in the music industry and compare their newer to the stuff they recorded years ago. For example George Strait, his 80's stuff was, and is, the best example of country music there can ever be. Then fast forward to now when he is a confirmed multi-million dollar earner, sells out every show, and gets anything he wants. He walks into a studio, records crap, and 30 people tell him how great it is because they don't want him hearing any less. It would have been nice if Lucas would have walked into a boardroom full of writers and a top notch director and said "Alright, I want three prequels about the rise of the Empire, the relationship between Anakin and Obi-Wan, and the creation of Vader" Then he should have walked out and had nothing further to do with the project until he watched it on the night of the premier. I think if that would have happened, we would have had such a great story because all those writers would know the impact they would have, whereas, Lucas just looked at it as an opportunity to show off his super duper digital effects powerhouse.
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What could have made the PT better? A new wave soundtrack. Imagine any of the duels set to X Offender.
"It's the stoned movie you don't have to be stoned for." -- Tom Shales on Star Wars
Scruffy's gonna die the way he lived.
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Another aspect of the backstory in making the PT is that of all the planets in that galaxy far, far away that we were yet to see, Lucas chose Tatooine, a planet that already overstayed its welcome in ROTJ. You could easily fan edit ROTJ to make Jabba's palace and the Pit of Carkoon on some other planet, It's not like they shot it in Tunisia anyway. Because of the choices Lucas made, the same could not quite be done for Tatooine in the PT. I could make a couple guesses at why he did this. One is for the convenience of Owen and Beru's backstories. The other is that maybe he just couldn't think up another planet that was different enough of an environment to justify not making it Tatooine. You've probably all seen those lists that people make. Bespin is clouds, Yavin is jungle, Hoth is ice, Dagobah is swamp, Endor is forest, etc.
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Originally posted by: Scruffy
What could have made the PT better? A new wave soundtrack. Imagine any of the duels set to X Offender.


Or Depeche Mode?
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Originally posted by: ferris209
Originally posted by: Anchorhead
Originally posted by: Forbidden Zone
I think George has no clue on how to write a friendship because he has forgotten how to have one. He has surrounded himself by kiss-butts for too long.


There may be something to that. There isn't a series of checks and balances in his world anymore, nor has there been for quite some time. That's not usually a good thing.


There is something to this, in just about every industry I must add. Look at people in the music industry and compare their newer to the stuff they recorded years ago. For example George Strait, his 80's stuff was, and is, the best example of country music there can ever be. Then fast forward to now when he is a confirmed multi-million dollar earner, sells out every show, and gets anything he wants. He walks into a studio, records crap, and 30 people tell him how great it is because they don't want him hearing any less. It would have been nice if Lucas would have walked into a boardroom full of writers and a top notch director and said "Alright, I want three prequels about the rise of the Empire, the relationship between Anakin and Obi-Wan, and the creation of Vader" Then he should have walked out and had nothing further to do with the project until he watched it on the night of the premier. I think if that would have happened, we would have had such a great story because all those writers would know the impact they would have, whereas, Lucas just looked at it as an opportunity to show off his super duper digital effects powerhouse.


We've analyzed their attack, sir, and there is a danger.
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On the 'Duel' DVD commentary, Spielberg makes a very interesting comment that will always keep him head and shoulders above Lucas no mater how far he may miss the mark with his latest production.

He said that he knows that he could never make the film 'Duel' now as he did then. That he had to prove himself to the Universal suits and to himself. In his voice you can tell how amazed Spielberg is of what he did back then. And that he is a different person now and the internal fire and drive and the need to do 24 hour days is gone. But on that same note, back then in his beginning years when he was young, he would not of had the insight to attempt something like 'Schindlers List' or 'Private Ryan'.
Spielberg may also be out of touch at times , but at least he can be aware of who he is and his limitations.

Lucas still thinks he's doing and working the same way as he did with no clue how separated from the creative film making process he really is.
We've analyzed their attack, sir, and there is a danger.
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I never found the secret identity of Padme in TPM a compelling subplot.

It's clearly a nod to Kurosawa and should have been a nice mirror to what Palpatine was doing but at no point was I convinced or even remotely interested. It added very little to the plot dynamic.

Recently I rewatched Two Mules for Sister Sara (1970).

FOR THOSE WHO HAVEN"T SEEN IT BEFORE

SPOILERS*****************************************************

Clint Eastwood is really a Ninja Monk.

We get like his adopted persona and how it copes with new situations but the sudden reveal not only makes sense but brings closure to the film.

Perhaps we should have been more focused on 'the queen' than the handmaiden and then find out she is just a lowly handmaiden after all.

Or maybe one of the 'Jedi' was really the monarch in disguise (or even Jar-Jar).

I would have put this in the fan edit section but I can't see how it could be introduced without starting the films from scratch.

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 (Edited)

Bingowings said:

I never found the secret identity of Padme in TPM a compelling subplot.

Especially when AOTC reveals that Padme's her real name and not an alias, making the scenario completely ludicrous in retrospect.

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What could have made the PT better? Greater focus on Anakin Skywalker..seeing the proper training, chambers, disciplines and philosophy of the Jedi Knights through Anakin's eyes.

Forget the whole immaculate conception thing and the whole myth of "the one who will bring balance to the Force"..it was not something that was mentioned or even hinted at in the second trilogy and it literally produced groans in the theater when  Mace Windu said it. I get the whole fantasy/mythological aspect of the Star Wars stories but that was so cliched it was cringe inducing.

What Lucas forgot and what Abrams needs to remember is that the Star Wars nine episode series is about the Skywalker clan. That's it. That's who we focus on, that's who we follow. No Skywalker, no care! Lucas himself established this pattern and theme with 4, 5, and 6. When A New Hope starts off we see Vader and Leia, then we go to Luke, then back to Leia, then Luke again, some stuff with Vader and back to Leia and so it goes. Thats it. We see the same pattern in The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi. All the major points of all the films deal with a Skywalker. So the PT should be more focused on Anakin's rise and fall as  a Jedi knight. The clone wars should be in the background of that much like the rebel/empire clash was in the background of the OT. 

 

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Not putting so much focus on the clones. I think the Clone Wars are mentioned twice in ANH but I always took it was one of many wars that Anakin and Obi-Wan could have fought in. 

Seeing an army of Temura Morrison's and the minor mystery of who ordered their creation didn't catch my interest at all. There's no mention or sight of any modern day clones in the OT so it feels weird to see such importance placed upon them in the PT.

Having a recurring villain in the PT would have helped it a lot too. Having a new arch villain in each film didn't work well. Darth Maul is cool and mysterious but that doesn't go anywhere because he gets killed.

Count Dooku is kind of interesting at first because he's initially portrayed as this character who is in the middle of battle. He believes the Jedi are corrupted, but he also fears the Sith and this Darth Tyranus guy...but then it turns out he is Darth Tyranus and he was just BSing Obi-Wan. Also, I get Lucas is going for meta symmetry with the OT and PT by having the Hammer version of Van Hesling and Dracula but I think that's a poor excuse to to cast Christopher Lee as a Jedi/Sith and all him "Count." Takes me out the movie for a minute.

And I never would have put in a cyborg Sith with breathing problems as a villain in the same movie that Anakin becomes Darth Vader. Darth Vader is supposed to be unique, so it takes a little bit away from him when you see a proto-Vader just before.

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More screentime for Palpatine. It's he who's turning a Republic into an Empire and Anakin into Vader, and he's Chancellor of the Republic and later Emperor of the Empire.

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What would make the PT better? ANYTHING! I shutter at the thoughts of watching the prequels...

All that CGI is so weak. Those movies look way more outdated than the SFX of the original theatrical trilogy. When I watch a movie, I wanna watch a movie, not a damn ps2 game for 2 hours.

The original theatrical trilogy is beyond epic, the prequels are beyond shit. My opinion... take it or leave it.