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What PAL/NTSC Laserdisc players would you recommend me?

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I am in the process of trying to buy a Pioneer LD-V8000/V800 player but apparently it can only play NTSC discs. I am pretty sure that most of the (likely very few) discs available here are NTSC, but just to be sure I'd like to know if you guys could recommend me a player that can handle both PAL and NTSC and is on the same league as the V8000/V800.
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I think I found a very nice auction on an LD-V8000 here. Since it's a V8000 and not a V800 I assume it has RCA connectors instead of BNC ones, how much of a quality drop can I expect from that?


P.S: I'd still like to know the answer to my question in the OP though.
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Crap, the auction ended . It seemed like such a great offer .
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Remember that the PAL laserdisc market was tiny compared to the market in the US and Japan. The best PAL players - the Pioneer CLD-2950 and CLD-D925 - are only equivalent in quality to the midrange NTSC models.

There is not much to choose between the two, but the D925 has an AC-3 RF out to connect to your demodulator. I don't know how they compare with the V8000/800.

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What about hybrid (PAL+NTSC) players, do they exist? If so, how do they compare to the NTSC ones?
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Most - if not all - PAL players will play NTSC discs.

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I see, thanks for the information . I wonder why that's not the case with NTSC players, wouldn't hybrid playback have been easy to implement?
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Not easy no, it added a lot of complexity to the players, the discs spin at different speeds, the modulation is different and the decoders are different, so for an NTSC market that had basically no TVs that could display a PAL signal and almost no PAL laserdiscs released in comparison, it is not surprising that the US would have no interest in a hybrid player.

I'd get the v800 over the V8000, as I said there is no way to make an RCA connector be a true 75 ohm impedence, whereas the BNC connector is perfect.

As far as PAL players go, if you intend actually watching movies on it as well, get a 925, it has the RF output (the 2950 does not and you have to mod the laserdisc player internally to get it to do so).

If capture is all you are interested in then get the industrial V4300D.
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The BNC connector on the V800 delivers the signal on a straight through path. Most of the players with BNC outputs have a 'pure' composite signal on the BNC output, and the 'messed with' composite signal on the RCA output, so even apart form the better impedence properties of the BNC connector, often the signal path to get to the connector is totally different (i.e. straight through for BNC)
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Well, I live in Uruguay which is a PAL country. Then again, most DVDs here are NTSC and people can play them back without issues. So whatever few Laserdiscs are available here are probably NTSC as well. Moreover, I'm in talks with Karyudo about buying his V800 and I trust a member of this forum a lot more than a random stranger in eBay since I know people here take care of their A/V gear .

Just for argument's sake though, how would you rate the V4300D against the V800?
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We actually tested both units, the output is very very similar for NTSC, in fact you can barely tell the difference even on the video essentials test pattern DVD.
I would rate the composite BNC output of the V800 better than any of the NTSC laserdisc players except the X9 and the X0.
Functionality wise (home user type features) the industrial players leave a lot to be desired, but picture quality wise they are excellent.

The only reason to go for a 4300D over the V800 would be if you had PAL discs to watch.
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Did the X0 team test out as many laserdisc players as they could find? How many did you test?Or was it already known that the X0 is the best? Have you thought about sending a rating list to the LD database or something?
I know sometimes you tell by just looking that one playback device (laserdisc, dvd, vcr and others) is better than another but what would you do with the ones that were really close? Are there any photo editing tools that could highlight a slight difference? I know from the X0 site that cranking up the saturation is one. I took screencaps of the exact same frame from 3 different Hi8 cameras using s-video with each. Although they don't look exactly the same, I really can't tell if one camera capture is better than the other.

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I see, thanks for the answers guys .
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Originally posted by: Knightmessenger
Did the X0 team test out as many laserdisc players as they could find? How many did you test?Or was it already known that the X0 is the best? Have you thought about sending a rating list to the LD database or something?
I know sometimes you tell by just looking that one playback device (laserdisc, dvd, vcr and others) is better than another but what would you do with the ones that were really close? Are there any photo editing tools that could highlight a slight difference? I know from the X0 site that cranking up the saturation is one. I took screencaps of the exact same frame from 3 different Hi8 cameras using s-video with each. Although they don't look exactly the same, I really can't tell if one camera capture is better than the other.


We did test a lot of players I personally checked the X0 against the X9, and we have looked at the 95, 97, 99, 704, most of the elite series, the V800, the V8000 the V4300D, the CLD-925, the CLD-2950 and a piece of crap Sony.

If you want to test players you need a few items.

1) A really good capture card - you don't want the capture card giving you problems.
2) The Video Essentials laserdisc.

Then you can capture test patterns like standard colourbars, S&W etc. and you can check resolution, colour reproduction, cross talk etc. in an empirical way. You can also calibrate your system to make sure the image is a good as you can get it.

Basically the 4300D and V8000, V800 outperformed all of the consumer LD playes we checked, the X9 was better but the X0 outperformed them all.
For capture I wouldn't bother with any of the consumer models.

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Digital Video Essentials is available for DVD, perhaps you could record the patterns to VHS if you were so inclined.
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Sorry to bump this thread but I'm actually looking for a PAL player.

Believe it or not, I'm looking to do a high bitrate capture of a PAL concert using my hauppauge.  I'm sure that it's going to be impossible to find someone with a PAL player plus the laser PLUS a hauppauge PVR so I'm thinking I might have to do it myself.

Is the V4300D still my best option for that?  I just need it to have great video quality...to get it out of the disc once.

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A couple of guys have recommended the CLD-1050 for PAL discs.

Moth3r said:

Aleksbmw said:

The best of these players is Ld-1010 if you can find one in good shape, it got much of the hardware from the LD-S1.

Funny you should say that, as I recently added the CLD-1050 to my eBay favourite searches. Is it reasonable to assume that the CLD-1050 would be a good option for capturing PAL discs?

Aleksbmw said:

Yep,  those two are brothers with just Pal playback added. Happy to help you mod that player moth3r since i think with mods it can beat any other Pal player.

(Thread here).

And:

Orinoco_Womble said:

I've not had an opportunity to test the 2950 myself, but I do have a few PAL players that might be of interest.  I don't have a decent capture card to test them definitively, but from what I can tell by doing a side by side comparison, here's how they stack up to each other:

D925 - sharpest picture of the PAL players that I've seen.  Very 'digital' looking picture and lacking in detail. When you compare side by side to the other 2 players.  The picture looks like DVNR was applied to the D925 to give it a lower noise floor which smooths over a lot of the fine detail. Consequently the detail level does not look to be as high as the other two players.

V4300D - industrial player - more detailed than the D925, although quite noisy and very soft picture. The picture looks very analogue and 'natural' compared to the D925 which looks very 'digitised' when seen side by side.  The detail level is great, but the amount of noise and soft picture might be a problem.

CLD-1050 - analogue PAL only player - again, a very analogue and extremely 'natural' looking picture. Easily looks better than the V4300D and more detailed than the D925.  Less noise than the V4300D and slightly sharper picture with better colours.  The most natural looking picture of the 3 players.  More detailed picture than the other 2, although still softer picture than the D925.

The verdict: the D925 has less noise and a sharper picture, but the V4300D and 1050 seem to have more detail and a more natural looking picture over all.  The 1050 in particular has the most natural and pleasing picture of the 3, although it is lacking in sharpness.  It would be interesting to see how the 2950 stacks up to these players.

Hope this helps.

(from here).

I have a D925 and a V4100 (one of the predecessors to the 4300D) but I haven't yet got around to doing any proper tests.

You may also want to consider whether the Hauppauge is really the best capture device for this sort of thing - e.g. can it do lossless capture, how does the comb filter perform, etc.?

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Hauppauge is currently the ONLY way of doing an HD capture and, since I'm burning Blu's of the material, my only option.

 The stuff that I've captured thus far looks identical, in my eyes.

Thanks!

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I have the Pioneer CLD-D925, CLD-2950, LD-V4300D.

I could agree with the previous posts:

CLD-D925 has a more "digital" picture but I must admit not so "undetailed" as the others wrote - you could notice it only in direct comparisons. Leave the HQ setting OFF everytime!

CLD-2950 has practically the same video quality, but more "analog". Avoid it ONLY if you want AC3 and can't find a modified one (or can't modify yourself)

LD-V4300D seems to have the most detailed picture. I have to test the BNC out, because I suspect (as wrote by laserman) it delivers a more pure video signal. I'll test ASAP

I can add also that the Pioneer DVL-909 (LD/DVD combi) has the same quality of the CLD-D925.

The Pioneer CLD-600 has no "digital frills" inside so could *maybe* has a better picture.

I tested all (except the CLD-600) via S-video with my Philips SAA-713x based capture card. I also made some test using the player composite out passed on my Pioneer DVR-320S (that, "accidentally" has a 3D Y/C comb filter - by the way, I think it works only for NTSC, for PAL it may have a simpler 4 or 5 line filter) and from it to the capture card via S-video.

I captured the CLD-600 via composite, but DScaler doesn't "see" my composite input directly so I captured it via DShow - but the quality lacks, I think because the different settings of the DShow filter. So I passed the composite to the DVR-320S and the difference is HUGE.

I'll post the pictures soon in another post - STAY TUNED!

 

Thai Panther

Sadly my projects are lost due to an HDD crash… 😦 | [Fundamental Collection] thread | blog.spoRv.com | fan preservation forum: fanres.com

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The laserdisc players comparison along with screenshot is ready!

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Thai Panther

Sadly my projects are lost due to an HDD crash… 😦 | [Fundamental Collection] thread | blog.spoRv.com | fan preservation forum: fanres.com

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I would agree with what you've said and should clarify my earlier statements.  The 925 is not altogether 'undetailed', but the other 2 players do look slightly more detailed and more natural.  When you do a side by side comparison on the same TV and switching between the players at the same time, it's straight away obvious that some of the detail looks like it has been smoothed over on the 925 almost like DVNR.  You only really notice this when you do a side by side comparison, otherwise if you are just watching a movie the 925 looks fine for the most part except for the crappy comb filtering especially on strong colours.

Yeah, the HQ should always be set off on the 925.  It looks truly awful with that on.

I checked the circuit diagrams for the 4300D and the BNC connector comes from exactly the same place as the RCA connector.  There won't be any difference in picture quality or detail if your DVD recorder or capture setup uses RCA plugs.

If television is chewing gum for the mind, then the prequels are the worlds first visual laxative.

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Orinoco_Womble,

you are right, the video quality of the BNC output of the 4300D seems the same of the RCA, as I'm testing both of them... but at least now I have a FAT BNC cable and not a thin unknown-obscure-cheap-brand used before ;-)

Hope to do further tests soon!

Sadly my projects are lost due to an HDD crash… 😦 | [Fundamental Collection] thread | blog.spoRv.com | fan preservation forum: fanres.com

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Orinoco_Womble said:


I checked the circuit diagrams
If you don't mind me asking, where did you get them? I'd like to find a CLD-S201 service manual. (I'm not recommending anybody buy that model, as per the thread title, just wishin' I had a schematic for mine)

However, in practice you must take into account the “fuckwit factor”. Just talk to Darth Mallwalker…
-Moth3r