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The Unofficial Complete REVISITED SAGA Ideas and Random Discussion Thread — Page 2

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Tobar said:

nightstalkerpoet said:

... I'm not a big fan of moving Yoda too much in the PT, besides rearranging his lines as per the "Yoda Speech Pattern" thread.

but.. were that to take place, Anakin doesn't ever have to actually meet with Yoda. Obi-Wan says he thought his could train Anakin as well as Yoda trained him. Implying Yoda played no hand in Anakin's training. Perhaps replacing Yoda's shots in the Council with a hologram could work. You could change the background of the scene at the end of TPM (Agree with you the council does, your apprentice skywalker will be) to appear as if it happens on Dagobah.

But if you're trying to preserve the reveals in the OT you can't show Yoda as the revelation that this eccentric little green dude is actually a Jedi master is a big thing in ESB.

You could try the route that JasonN did with Palps, and have Yoda be dark and shrouded mysteriously.

John Williams score to Return of the Jedi Remastered/Remixed:

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/JOHN-WILLIAMS-Star-Wars-Episode-VI-Return-of-the-Jedi-Remastered-Edition/topic/14606/page/1/

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DominicCobb said:

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. There's not much of a point to preserving the OT secrets in the PT, especially not if you're trying to create a definitive edit saga.

Exactly. Plus the OT is so ingrained in pop culture there's no POINT in keeping the secrets anymore. 

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MrInsaneA said:

DominicCobb said:

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. There's not much of a point to preserving the OT secrets in the PT, especially not if you're trying to create a definitive edit saga.

Exactly. Plus the OT is so ingrained in pop culture there's no POINT in keeping the secrets anymore. 

That's like saying the crapness of the PT is so ingrained in pop culture there's no POINT in changing it.

The point is providing a demonstration of the PT as it could have been, and providing an alternative to how it turned out.

It's episodes 1 to 3 so we shouldn't have the surprises to 4 spoiled.

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And in a complete saga edit, you have to view it kind of like a single book with 6 chapters. The original book is "Star Wars". And for some reason chapter 3 gives away everything you need to know. Chapter 4 for some reason ignores this information and sets us up for Chapter 5. Chapter 5 then dramatically reveals... everything we already knew from Chapter 3, making it mostly irrelevant. And Chapter 6 follows suit... along with rehashing the plot from Chapter 4 in a new and less interesting way.

The newly edited and expanded book of "Star Wars" should have each Chapter set up the next in a nice, fluid way that makes all of them equally important to the story. 

As it stands, IMHO, ESB is the only film that can stand without at least slight alteration to allow a proper bridging and allow for the mesh. I think my favorite change in ANH:R is "There'll be no escape for the princess this time" which is one of the most obvious... so it can stand up to small changes for the sake of series continuity.

Preferred Saga:
1/2: Hal9000
3: L8wrtr
4/5: Adywan
6-9: Hal9000

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Maybe the new book should have just 5 chapters, edit the prequels down to 2?

J

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It warps the chapter numbers... I wonder if Ady has taken this into consideration for ESB:R's crawl (I don't know what he's planning to do with the PT, but it seems like something that is important to be decided on before releasing the OT edits). Perhaps he could split the .m2ts files so that the crawl is a separate .m2ts file that can be replaced at a later date, should he decide to cut it down to two films. (That way you wouldn't have to replace the entire 25 gb worth of files. Only the crawl and menus would have to be replaced to reflect the episode number)

Preferred Saga:
1/2: Hal9000
3: L8wrtr
4/5: Adywan
6-9: Hal9000

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Bingowings said:

MrInsaneA said:

DominicCobb said:

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. There's not much of a point to preserving the OT secrets in the PT, especially not if you're trying to create a definitive edit saga.

Exactly. Plus the OT is so ingrained in pop culture there's no POINT in keeping the secrets anymore. 

That's like saying the crapness of the PT is so ingrained in pop culture there's no POINT in changing it.

The point is providing a demonstration of the PT as it could have been, and providing an alternative to how it turned out.

It's episodes 1 to 3 so we shouldn't have the surprises to 4 spoiled.

I'd always be interested in seeing a saga edit where the surprises of the OT are preserved, but I fear such doing a thing detracts from the very reasons the story of the PT is so interesting.

To me, the most compelling point of making a PT in the first place is to show the transformation of Anakin Skywalker to Darth Vader.  Hiding that transformation creates a giant hole in the story and will ultimately leave me unsatisfied (unless a clever editor can prove me wrong). 

The only compelling argument there is to preserve the surprises is simply because the episodes are numbered 1-6.  I view the episode numbers merely as chronological indicators, having nothing to do with a preferred viewing order.  Perhaps that is misleading to a first-time viewer, but hopefully other means can be used to convey otherwise. 

I've always thought the saga was meant to be viewed for the first time as 4-6 and 1-3.  4-6 is a classic tale that assures us good will always triumph over evil, building our interest in this far away galaxy and its people.  1-3 is a cautionary tale that shows how that evil arose in the first place, having lessons that are close to home.  A fun adventure story turns complex and thought-provoking.  I fear chopping up 1-3, merely to preserve a supposed viewing order, can damage a better, more complete story.

 

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 (Edited)

The episode numbers will stay the same as there will still be 3 prequels.

I'm not sure why many people think that Yoda has gone nuts when we first see him in ESB (since the prequels came out of course). He is just acting like a strange creature, testing Luke. You see the disappointment on Yodas face when Luke says that he couldn't help him find his "friend". If he acted his true self then Luke may have realised that he was in fact the person he was sent to find.

There never really was a surprise that It was Yoda, even back in 1980. The revelation is in place for Luke and not the audience. So the prequels haven't ruined that revelation, luckily.

The whole Vader thing on the other hand is going to be a tricky one. There is no way of changing the fact that Obi-Wan lied to Luke about who killed his father and ROTJ sort of explains that anyway, even though it's pretty lame. But you can keep the whole "father " revelation a surprise and still keep the final duel in ROTS. I have a few ideas about how to keep the fact that it is Anakin who is Vader that can be pulled off, and in fact someone has come pretty close already to how i'm going to do this. I do have a lot of the PT already mapped out and quite a few different ways to accomplish things, which is why i will have to do all 3 films together. If i did them in order, one at a time, and something i had planned for ROTS didn't work, but there had already been something mentioned or built up in one of the earlier films, then it would be a complete disaster. This way, if this happens, i can go back and change something well before the films are released. 

ANH:REVISITED
ESB:REVISITED

DONATIONS TOWARDS MATERIALS FOR THE REVISITED SAGA

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Thank you for creating this threat.

 

One day we will have properly restored versions of the Original Unaltered Trilogy (OUT); or 1977, 1980, 1983 Theatrical released versions (Like 4K77,4K80 and 4K83); including Prequels. So that future generations can enjoy these historic films that changed cinema forever.

Yoda: Try not, do or do not, there is no try.

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 (Edited)

Officer Crabtree says :

Good moaning,

I was just pissing by the towns queer when I saw this threat. Redding eat made me smell from air to air.

We clearly are meant to be surprised when Yoda is revealed to be the green guy with the big ears but the publicity machine for ESB spoiled it into dramatic irony.

That and the generally poor depiction of the character in the PT is the reasoning behind why I would be tempted to replace him with another Jedi for 1 to 3.

Threepio I would keep for all three films (largely in the background and always gold and never made by Anakin) but Yoda I could do without.

It makes more sense that Vader is so cock sure he has finished of the Jedi in ANH if he knows hardly anything about the guy.

But as always when commenting on the Revisited projects they aren't mine to dictate and I'm just happy to see what Ady and the gang come up with.

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gobalicious said:

Bingowings said:

MrInsaneA said:

DominicCobb said:

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. There's not much of a point to preserving the OT secrets in the PT, especially not if you're trying to create a definitive edit saga.

Exactly. Plus the OT is so ingrained in pop culture there's no POINT in keeping the secrets anymore. 

That's like saying the crapness of the PT is so ingrained in pop culture there's no POINT in changing it.

The point is providing a demonstration of the PT as it could have been, and providing an alternative to how it turned out.

It's episodes 1 to 3 so we shouldn't have the surprises to 4 spoiled.

I'd always be interested in seeing a saga edit where the surprises of the OT are preserved, but I fear such doing a thing detracts from the very reasons the story of the PT is so interesting.

To me, the most compelling point of making a PT in the first place is to show the transformation of Anakin Skywalker to Darth Vader.  Hiding that transformation creates a giant hole in the story and will ultimately leave me unsatisfied (unless a clever editor can prove me wrong). 

The only compelling argument there is to preserve the surprises is simply because the episodes are numbered 1-6.  I view the episode numbers merely as chronological indicators, having nothing to do with a preferred viewing order.  Perhaps that is misleading to a first-time viewer, but hopefully other means can be used to convey otherwise. 

I've always thought the saga was meant to be viewed for the first time as 4-6 and 1-3.  4-6 is a classic tale that assures us good will always triumph over evil, building our interest in this far away galaxy and its people.  1-3 is a cautionary tale that shows how that evil arose in the first place, having lessons that are close to home.  A fun adventure story turns complex and thought-provoking.  I fear chopping up 1-3, merely to preserve a supposed viewing order, can damage a better, more complete story.

 

Yeah, this. Seriously guys, how much would you have hated it if the prequels didn't reveal how Anakin became Vader? A lot, I would guess. But maybe I'm wrong. I thought that was the reason the PT was made in the first place.

Now, I know there's a lot of different stories flying around out there, but there's no way you can say that they made the OT first by mistake. When they put "Episode V" in ESB, it was firstly just a throwback. It didn't imply that you had to watch episodes 1, 2, and 3 first. Then they decided that they were going to make the first three episodes. And you know what? nothing can change the fact that the PT was made after the OT on purpose. Despite what Lucas says, the PT was most certainly made to be seen after the OT. 

But okay, I get that you want to make the stupid episode order work. But you know what? That just dilutes the OT in my opinion, and the PT (which you certainly do not want diluted, because, you know, you're trying to make it better). 

Here's something I wrote in the "Integrating the two trilogies" thread:


1. I know the twist. You know the twist. We all know the twist. You aren't fooling me by killing Anakin in ROTS.


2. Yeah, but so what right? Well, know. The prequels were made to show us how Anakin became Vader. When I watch the prequels I want to see how Anakin became Vader.


3. Yeah but what about the people who don't know the twist? Who? Kidding. No, I think for people who honestly don't know the twist, showing them a version of the PT that "preserves the twist" before the OT is a mistake. WHY? Because the twist is diluted. HOW? Well, let's see


a. Obi-Wan lied! Oh wait, we already knew that.


b. Anakin turned to the dark side! Oh wait, we already knew that. A significant amount of the twist's shock comes from realizing that Luke's father (that great jedi that Luke is trying so hard to follow) became a sith. Really, without this, you're left with this: Anakin is still alive! And he's this guy in the black suit who showed up and has been in the past two episodes! Yeah, not too shocking.


4. You should really watch the OT first. Or at least make it 4-5-1-2-3-6. Contrary to what Lucas says, the PT was not made to be watched before the OT. The PT would have made very little money if no OT fans saw it. The PT was made with the mindset that "people have seen the OT." I realize this isn't much of a reason, because this is one of the things that people try to fix with fan edits, but I'm just saying I would never show someone the PT before the OT. Even if it was fan edited.


Now I'm going to ease back and say that I don't necessarily mind an edit that tries to "preserve the twist" (it would be interesting to watch [and, by the way, the way to do it is to remove Skywalker from Anakin's name. So we know he's Vader, but we just don't know he's Luke's father]), but if I want to watch a definitive ROTS/PT edit/s, I want to see how Anakin became Vader. Not even if I'm watching 4-5-6-1-2-3 or 4-5-1-2-3-6, but even if I'm watching chronological, I know the twist, so I want to see everything that happens. I don't want to miss out on seeing something just because a twist that I already know is being "preserved." 


My two cents.

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DominicCobb said:

gobalicious said:

Bingowings said:

MrInsaneA said:

DominicCobb said:

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. There's not much of a point to preserving the OT secrets in the PT, especially not if you're trying to create a definitive edit saga.

Exactly. Plus the OT is so ingrained in pop culture there's no POINT in keeping the secrets anymore. 

That's like saying the crapness of the PT is so ingrained in pop culture there's no POINT in changing it.

The point is providing a demonstration of the PT as it could have been, and providing an alternative to how it turned out.

It's episodes 1 to 3 so we shouldn't have the surprises to 4 spoiled.

I'd always be interested in seeing a saga edit where the surprises of the OT are preserved, but I fear such doing a thing detracts from the very reasons the story of the PT is so interesting.

To me, the most compelling point of making a PT in the first place is to show the transformation of Anakin Skywalker to Darth Vader.  Hiding that transformation creates a giant hole in the story and will ultimately leave me unsatisfied (unless a clever editor can prove me wrong). 

The only compelling argument there is to preserve the surprises is simply because the episodes are numbered 1-6.  I view the episode numbers merely as chronological indicators, having nothing to do with a preferred viewing order.  Perhaps that is misleading to a first-time viewer, but hopefully other means can be used to convey otherwise. 

I've always thought the saga was meant to be viewed for the first time as 4-6 and 1-3.  4-6 is a classic tale that assures us good will always triumph over evil, building our interest in this far away galaxy and its people.  1-3 is a cautionary tale that shows how that evil arose in the first place, having lessons that are close to home.  A fun adventure story turns complex and thought-provoking.  I fear chopping up 1-3, merely to preserve a supposed viewing order, can damage a better, more complete story.

 

Yeah, this. Seriously guys, how much would you have hated it if the prequels didn't reveal how Anakin became Vader? A lot, I would guess. But maybe I'm wrong. I thought that was the reason the PT was made in the first place.

Now, I know there's a lot of different stories flying around out there, but there's no way you can say that they made the OT first by mistake. When they put "Episode V" in ESB, it was firstly just a throwback. It didn't imply that you had to watch episodes 1, 2, and 3 first. Then they decided that they were going to make the first three episodes. And you know what? nothing can change the fact that the PT was made after the OT on purpose. Despite what Lucas says, the PT was most certainly made to be seen after the OT. 

But okay, I get that you want to make the stupid episode order work. But you know what? That just dilutes the OT in my opinion, and the PT (which you certainly do not want diluted, because, you know, you're trying to make it better). 

Here's something I wrote in the "Integrating the two trilogies" thread:

 


1. I know the twist. You know the twist. We all know the twist. You aren't fooling me by killing Anakin in ROTS.


2. Yeah, but so what right? Well, know. The prequels were made to show us how Anakin became Vader. When I watch the prequels I want to see how Anakin became Vader.


3. Yeah but what about the people who don't know the twist? Who? Kidding. No, I think for people who honestly don't know the twist, showing them a version of the PT that "preserves the twist" before the OT is a mistake. WHY? Because the twist is diluted. HOW? Well, let's see


a. Obi-Wan lied! Oh wait, we already knew that.


b. Anakin turned to the dark side! Oh wait, we already knew that. A significant amount of the twist's shock comes from realizing that Luke's father (that great jedi that Luke is trying so hard to follow) became a sith. Really, without this, you're left with this: Anakin is still alive! And he's this guy in the black suit who showed up and has been in the past two episodes! Yeah, not too shocking.


4. You should really watch the OT first. Or at least make it 4-5-1-2-3-6. Contrary to what Lucas says, the PT was not made to be watched before the OT. The PT would have made very little money if no OT fans saw it. The PT was made with the mindset that "people have seen the OT." I realize this isn't much of a reason, because this is one of the things that people try to fix with fan edits, but I'm just saying I would never show someone the PT before the OT. Even if it was fan edited.


Now I'm going to ease back and say that I don't necessarily mind an edit that tries to "preserve the twist" (it would be interesting to watch [and, by the way, the way to do it is to remove Skywalker from Anakin's name. So we know he's Vader, but we just don't know he's Luke's father]), but if I want to watch a definitive ROTS/PT edit/s, I want to see how Anakin became Vader. Not even if I'm watching 4-5-6-1-2-3 or 4-5-1-2-3-6, but even if I'm watching chronological, I know the twist, so I want to see everything that happens. I don't want to miss out on seeing something just because a twist that I already know is being "preserved." 


My two cents.

 

A hell of a two cents, if you ask me. 

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 (Edited)

You can show how something happened without showing to whom it happened.

Just sayin.

Ideally the PT should be watchable both as episodes 1 to 3 seen before the OT as well as prequels seen after the OT.

That is how they should have been made, the general crapness of the trilogy just compounds a pre-existing problem.

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Davnes007 said:

pat man said:

Thank you for creating this threat.

 

*sigh*

Pat.......this is a THREAD...not a THREAT.

ALLOL

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I'd never suggest removing scenes of Anakin turning to the Dark Side... I'm simply saying that all of the births in RotS need to be removed. Leia, Luke, Vader. If Anakin is never referred to as Vader, and never shown in the suit (nor saved) you can easily assume he is dead.

I also agree... The Prequels should be viable either way. Yes, we all know the twists and turns of Star Wars. But I will say, my girlfriend had never seen the PT and hadn't seen the OT in ten years before I reintroduced her. And my children, who are 2 and 3, won't be able to truly appreciate SW for a couple more years. And eventually they will have kids and as a Grandpa I'll be able to dust off the ol' obsolete physical optical disc media player and show them the Revisited Saga. In my vision, They will get emotionally vested in Anakin and Padme, be truly distraught at his downfall and "death" (finger's crossed :P), shocked that Luke is alive. Inquisitive of who Darth Vader is, shocked/excited to learn that Vader=Anakin...

This is bigger than us. And I'm hoping that the next generation of SW fans doesn't have to go through the initial love then intense hate relationship with the PT that I did growing up (I was 9 when TPM came out). 

Beyond that, I wanna make it all the way through a damn SW Marathon, 1-6 without giving up, which I can't do with the official set. (and it would be nice to have a complete set rather than having to mix and match fanedits that don't always match up nicely).

 

 

Has anyone seen Spence's RotJ final edit? I really like his concept for the beginning/rescue, and think if anyone could pull it off right, it's Ady. I was thinking if you insert the deleted scene of Luke building his lightsaber right before sending the droids into the Palace, it should add to the setup and play out very smoothly. This starts the film with the same down tone (with Yoda's death) as ESB left off with. 

Luke can then return to Dagobah after the rescue and have his discussion with Ben.

Preferred Saga:
1/2: Hal9000
3: L8wrtr
4/5: Adywan
6-9: Hal9000

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It doesn't make sense for Luke to go all the way back to Dagobah just to talk to a ghost that can manifest anywhere.

It would make more sense to have Luke construct his new lightsaber in Ben's hut or have Ben's ghost appear in the same cave as he is constructing the saber.

That way the revelation of Leia being Vader's daughter matches up with her appearing in a breath screened helmet saving Han in the same headstrong way Luke ran off to save Her in ESB.

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How would you handle Luke leaving after Tattoine then, and not being in the rebel briefing, where he walks in and says "I'm with you too"? I'm all for him not having to go back, I'm just not sure how to bridge the gap.

Preferred Saga:
1/2: Hal9000
3: L8wrtr
4/5: Adywan
6-9: Hal9000

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 (Edited)

Use the deleted scene with the sandstorm. After Luke and Han talk, Luke doesn't go to his X-Wing, he goes to his old house. There, ghost Ben appears, and they talk.

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Just add Luke to the briefing and cut Han building his team on the spot.

A general would issue orders through official channels and not by emotionally blackmailing them in the middle of a briefing.

You wouldn't see that scene in either of the previous films.

It's really clumsily constructed.

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Bingowings said:

Just add Luke to the briefing and cut Han building his team on the spot.

A general would issue orders through official channels and not by emotionally blackmailing them in the middle of a briefing.

You wouldn't see that scene in either of the previous films.

It's really clumsily constructed.

Han Solo's not really a general though. He's a scoundrel who's been put in the position of a general.

 

And "emotional blackmailing?" C'mon. 

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The ROTJ briefing is awful in so many ways.

Hey, who wants to be a general?  We'll take anyone!  We don't really have any qualified pilots to lead this Death Star assault- certainly not anyone who's loyal, has experience in many battles, and has gone up against a Death Star before (ahem WEDGE ANTILLES cough).  So how about the sketchy guy who ran a gas mine and hasn't done any meaningful piloting in years?  Good choice.  Oh by the way, he made a deal with Darth Vader to capture PRINCESS LEIA and her friends so that Vader could freeze LUKE F'N SKYWALKER in carbonite and give him to the Emperor.  But he was in that Tanaab battle or something?  Sure, what the hell.

Next!

Ok, now, we're about to launch the most important ground assault in Rebel Alliance history- the fate of the galaxy hinges on it.  Let's see... we have a guy who's known as a great PILOT and smuggler... though to his credit I guess he's broken in an out of some strongholds before.  Sure, why not.  Oh also, he's been frozen in carbonite for like 2 years, so his eyesight might be a little screwed up and I'm guessing his muscles have atrophied and maybe he's gone a little crazy.  Oh yeah, he hasn't led any sort of ground operation since he's been frozen for 2 years, and this'll be his first mission as a general, so he might need some catching up on the latest Imperial procedures and methods, and his aim might be a little off.  You can probably get him up to speed on all that on the flight to Endor.  But yeah, good choice, doesn't look like we have anyone else.

He seems prepared too- he doesn't have a crew for the shuttle, but I'm sure some of his buddies will just volunteer DURING THE BRIEFING.  Last minute, who cares?  No big deal.  Make sure to take the useless, shiny, talkative protocol droid with you too on this important subterfuge operation that's going to require stealth.

Hey Luke- no, no problem!  Juts barge right into the middle of the most important mission briefing in rebel history!  You forgot your ID?  No biggie, I'm sure the guy just waved you in.  We're all friends here in the Alliance.  Oh, you don't want to fly an X-Wing?  We were kind of counting on you since you blew up the first Death Star, and you might be the best pilot in the galaxy.  But yeah, no worries, just be a crew member on the shuttle.  That's the best use of your skills.

So, you guys ready?  Alright, let's blow up this Death Star!!!  But don't forget to have some fun out there!!!

If anyone else wants to be a general, let us know!

Sigh.

Anyone remember different camera angles from ROTJ?

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 (Edited)

The briefing really should be more... brief.

Cut the medical droids, cut the gossip about recent promotions (and yeah Wedge would make more sense as the leader of the attack).

Cut the Bothan line (nobody knows or cares about them it's a clumsy push button emotion moment),

Just show us tell us that where the Emperor is and how to blow up the station.

It also needs a visual make-over.

Look how naturalistic the briefing in ANH looks and compare it to the 'at all point's fake' briefing in ROTJ.

The hologram would work better desaturated and the room would work better if it wasn't so over lit.

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 (Edited)

Bingowings said:

The briefing really should be more... brief.

Cut the medical droids, cut the gossip about recent promotions (and yeah Wedge would make more sense as the leader of the attack).

Look how naturalistic the briefing in ANH looks and compare it to the 'at all point's fake' briefing in ROTJ.


Technically, the gossip is before the briefing so it doesnt change the length of the briefing.

Also the reason the briefing in ANH looks naturalistic is because:

1. ANH was made in '77

and

2. It was on Yavin IV, not a Mon Calamari ship.

John Williams score to Return of the Jedi Remastered/Remixed:

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/JOHN-WILLIAMS-Star-Wars-Episode-VI-Return-of-the-Jedi-Remastered-Edition/topic/14606/page/1/

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I'm not sure what point you are making with that post fishfella.

The briefing scene extends either side of the briefing itself so the changes I proposed would trim the running time. Some of that could be retro-padded with shots of interesting scene detail (pilots, attentive ground troops, alternate angles of the holograms etc).

Both the scene in ANH and ROTJ were filmed on sets and contained other worldly imagery (droids, pilots in uniform, holograms).

If the ROTJ scene was adjusted to look less bright, the glossy plastic set would look more like a Mon Calamari ship instead of a glossy plastic set.

1982ish wasn't intrinsically less naturalistic than 1975ish.

ROTJ was simply not as well made as ANH