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The Unofficial Complete REVISITED SAGA Ideas and Random Discussion Thread

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Alright, I'm going to bite the bullet here and attempt to start this... if it fails, it fails...

This thread is intended to be a discussion of any ideas that you have for the entirety of Adywan's REVISITED SAGA. If you have an idea of what to do in the PT:R, feel free to post it. An idea for a change in ANH:R:SE, great. If you have an idea of something to change in in ROTS that will effect something in ESB and require you to change something else in RotJ for it to work... That's the sort of thing I think would be great to talk about.

I understand there are plenty of discussions of what people would like to be changed in ANY fanedit, but I think that everyone has a slightly different view of how they'd like the Revisited edits to turn out. Some radical ideas like removing the Ewoks altogether might make for a fun edit that I'd love to see... but it's not something I'm looking for in Revisited. For a lot of us, each Revisited edit will replace the official as the version that we watch - and so a lot of us have higher expectations, and certain things we'd like kept in for nostalgia, despite certain negative aspects.

I sincerely hope that I don't offend anyone that is a part of Adywan's Revisited Project by starting this thread. I'm just eager for something new to talk about as I wait for ESB:R.

Let the discussion begin:

A part of me would love to see Ewan McGregor's mole added to Alec Guinness in the OT. A small change that doesn't detract from the film, but does add a nice bit of continuity. Keep in mind that when Ady is done with the Prequels, we probably WON'T hate them, and will enjoy the continuity, as opposed to hating anything that connects the originals to the blasphemy that is the PT.

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Some people call them Force Ghosts. I call them Midichlorian Swarms.

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Thank you. Someone had to do it.

I'd like to know why people (including Ady, at some point in time) think it's a good idea (or even possible) to give Obi a second apprentice in the PT. If Ani's his only apprentice, you can still make Ani=Vader a surprise. So... why?

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I think the only reason it really works is because when Obi-Wan says "a pupil of mine" about Darth Vader it gives the impression that he trained multiple people.

I'm not sure it would be possible to add another apprentice. The only thing I see it working for is to show that Anakin is truly a full fledged jedi. Having him and Obi-Wan working together at the beginning of RotS was a missed opportunity to see Anakin acting on his own. When you keep seeing them together, you start to doubt Anakin's ability to ever strike out on his own.

Some people call them Force Ghosts. I call them Midichlorian Swarms.

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timdiggerm said:

Thank you. Someone had to do it.

I'd like to know why people (including Ady, at some point in time) think it's a good idea (or even possible) to give Obi a second apprentice in the PT. If Ani's his only apprentice, you can still make Ani=Vader a surprise. So... why?

 I brought this exact point up in the PT Radical Redux thread, and Poet answered correctly: because a pupil of his betrayed and murdered Anakin.  I think you said that it was okay to know that Ben was lying, but not know the extent.  To me, part of preserving the surprise would require believing that Ben was perfectly honest in every way.  Frankly, I think it'd be best that Obi-Wan had several apprentices in order to make us scratch our heads and wonder which one was the actual killer.  I know he plans on reworking quite a bit, but I don't see how it can be done as completely as he wants without tossing out nearly every scene.

The ROTJ collaborative thread is a wealth of ideas, both on how to edit Return of the Jedi, as well as how to collaborate in an edit.

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Yeah... actually kinda amusing that came up. it's like the only thing I responded to on that thread.

 

How do people feel about splitting up the prequel films. Should Revisited be a reworking of the 3 films with the storylines they have, or should they be combined together into one Revisited Prequel film, or Two Prequel films using the best elements of all three?

Some people call them Force Ghosts. I call them Midichlorian Swarms.

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Seeing as ANH:R is Episode IV I can't see the PT:R as being anything less than Episodes I-III.

Not being Ady (honestly) and going purely on what he has said I can see him taking elements he thinks works and replacing elements he doesn't think work with newly filmed footage with new actors and new model and mattes.

So while the foundation stones of that megaproject would be from the original PT it will be practically a whole new building.

I wouldn't be surprised if elements from all three films appear out of their current order either.

It might make sense to stick bits of AOTC in TPM:R for example.

This highlights the problem I had with the thread being made.

I'm not Ady (honestly) and this is pure speculation on my part about a project that will not be seen by us for many years about which Ady and the gang already will have much of it mapped out.

The same is true about ROTJ:R.

It only makes sense discussing things as they are done or planned to be done when Ady (or one of his merry band) can run something he is proposing by us.

Until then working out ideas anyone can use makes more sense (to me) I am not you (honestly).

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When the student is ready, the Master speaks?

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I always liked the idea of a second apprentice. It would keep the whole who killed whom story a lot more ambiguous and would make a great reveal in ESB.

The good thing is that the PT offers a lot of potential for these changes. It might sound crazy but we see Ewan McGregor as Obi-Wan because we saw the movies.

Ewan and Alec resemble each other but what if Qui-Gon never existed. What if Liam Neeson played Obi-Wan and Ewan and Hayden would play Ani and Darth, respectively. There aren't enough scenes with Liam Neeson in the Episode 1 and it would take a lot of redubs of scenes with Ewan and Hayden to make them totally new characters.

It would be a lot of work but the interaction between the two actors is already there. You would just need to change the tone of the scenes and what the scenes are about. The visual clumsiness of the PT (Obi-Wan=light colored clothes=good guy and Ani=dark colored clothes=bad guy) could be turned into something really symbolic.

What do you think?

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Bingowings said:

This highlights the problem I had with the thread being made.

I'm not Ady (honestly) and this is pure speculation on my part about a project that will not be seen by us for many years about which Ady and the gang already will have much of it mapped out.

The same is true about ROTJ:R.

It only makes sense discussing things as they are done or planned to be done when Ady (or one of his merry band) can run something he is proposing by us.

Until then it working out ideas anyone can use makes more sense (to me) I am not you (honestly).

To be honest, I have the same problem with this, and was happy to wait until adywan's own future 'official' REVISITED threads, purely so that any good ideas didn't get scattered and lost over *too many* threads.

Bingowings, I've sent you a PM about something I'm trying to remember.

 

 

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Ender, nightstalk,

While that's the obvious answer, it means you can't show Ani's death. No lava fight, no explanation for how he ended up so scarred, no nothing.

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ImperialFighter said:

To be honest, I have the same problem with this, and was happy to wait until adywan's own future 'official' REVISITED threads, purely so that any good ideas didn't get scattered and lost over *too many* threads

 

I definitely understand your concerns, and this may not be for everybody. I'm simply trying to offer an outlet for some pent up revisited hype in the final stages of ESB:R where group discussion/input is generally finished. I also have to say that I have really wanted to discuss PT:R for a long time... and having started keeping tabs on these edits at 18, it's seems strange to not discuss the ones I'm really interested in until I'm almost 30...

If Ady requests it, I'm perfectly happy asking a mod to obliterate this whole thread.

Serling1979 said:

I always liked the idea of a second apprentice. It would keep the whole who killed whom story a lot more ambiguous and would make a great reveal in ESB.

The good thing is that the PT offers a lot of potential for these changes. It might sound crazy but we see Ewan McGregor as Obi-Wan because we saw the movies.

Ewan and Alec resemble each other but what if Qui-Gon never existed. What if Liam Neeson played Obi-Wan and Ewan and Hayden would play Ani and Darth, respectively. There aren't enough scenes with Liam Neeson in the Episode 1 and it would take a lot of redubs of scenes with Ewan and Hayden to make them totally new characters.

It would be a lot of work but the interaction between the two actors is already there. You would just need to change the tone of the scenes and what the scenes are about. The visual clumsiness of the PT (Obi-Wan=light colored clothes=good guy and Ani=dark colored clothes=bad guy) could be turned into something really symbolic.

What do you think? 

I don't really think that Vader as the other apprentice works. It's too clear cut. I think the group of apprentices works best - perhaps show Obi-Wan training a group of jedi. Maybe he could be watching lightsaber training from the top of an arena while talking to Anakin?

Another idea might be to establish "vader" as a term referring to someone who has left the jedi order. I know it sounds strange, but it might play out nicely. The title Darth Vader would then literally translate to "a sith lord who abandoned the jedi".

Some people call them Force Ghosts. I call them Midichlorian Swarms.

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timdiggerm said:

Ender, nightstalk,

While that's the obvious answer, it means you can't show Ani's death. No lava fight, no explanation for how he ended up so scarred, no nothing.

The whole thing will have to be reworked. You remove Palpatine actually naming Anakin "Darth Vader". You give the impression that Anakin dies on Mustafar. By showing the battle and having him "die" without Palpatine showing up, you can just assume Vader is the new villain of the film, in the same way that Maul and Dooku and Grievous were. You also have to cut most of the tying up stuff. I'm almost thinking you could show Yoda arriving on Dagobah, and end with Padme's funeral procession. If you add Obi-Wan to Padme's funeral, you tie up the fate of everyone you think is alive. 

You could also change up Obi-Wan's line from "a young Jedi named Darth vader, who was..." to "a young jedi, who as a pupil of mine...

Some people call them Force Ghosts. I call them Midichlorian Swarms.

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But that fight will be between Obi-Wan and Anakin, and therefore we know that Vader did not "betray and murder" Luke's father, as Obi-Wan tells him later.  So tim's right, the whole fight would have to be removed.

The ROTJ collaborative thread is a wealth of ideas, both on how to edit Return of the Jedi, as well as how to collaborate in an edit.

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And then the viewer has no idea how Ani got his scars.

So yeah, I'm pretty sure that Obi-Wan has to be shown to be partially lying.

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I don't understand the point of even concealing the Vader/Anakin identity anymore. It's just gonna cause problems for a prequel fan edit. 

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In the OT Anakin isn't referred to by his first name until ROTJ.

So if you removed references to 'Skywalker' from the script, Anakin could still become Vader but not be exposed as the father of Luke, if you set up an alternative pupil for Obi-wan and somehow linked him to a woman who gets pregnant. This chap could already be Obi-Wan's pupil :

when this chap comes on the scene:

and not be too happy about it(for example)

Maybe Anakin attacks Padme because of more traditional jealousy, though I still favour Force lightning to choking.

I always saw Vader choke fetish as an externalisation of his own inability to breath unaided.

If he attacked his wife with Sith lightning it would explain why he never did it again (that and the danger to his own electronics) and it would add weight to Vader seeing Luke attacked that way by the Emperor (a lot more than "No Nooooooooooooooooo!).

The surprises of later episodes should not be blown by the earlier ones.

Episodes 1 to 3 should be earlier episodes not true prequels as such.

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When the student is ready, the Master speaks?

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By never showing that the twins are born at the end of RotS, and never showing that Anakin lives (nor naming his as vader), it ultimately does preserve the secret.

Plus, it adds another surprise when suddenly, Luke Skywalker is ALIVE on Tatooine. Someone new to the movies might actually truly be surprised.

By removing "a young jedi named Darth Vader" and simply cutting it as "a young jedi, who was a pupil of mine until he turned to evil" we never have it confirmed that Vader has anything to do with Anakin at all. Thus, when the Vader/Obi-Wan battle takes place, it could very easily be some other grudge from Obi's past (such as another apprentice?). 

In the ESB:R thread I suggested an added scene at the end of ANH that plays out like this:

Vader's ship lands on Coruscant at the end of ANH, and seeing him on a landing platform speaking to someone of importance (no clue who) would be a really nice tie in and look pretty cool

"Lord Vader"

"Yes, commander?"

"We have the name of the Rebel Pilot responsible for the destruction of the Death Star"

"What is it (What is his name)?"

"Luke Skywalker, my lord. It appears that he may be the son of Anakin Skywalker."

"That... is impossible"

"I believed all traces of Skywalker were eliminated with the rest of the Jedi."

"As did I commander... as... did... I..."


 

This now has the first-time viewer torn. The battle with Obi-Wan made us think it's Anakin... but this scene at the end makes it sound like someone else (since Vader is speaking as if it is about someone else).


Ultimately, rearranging in this way does preserve (and add to, in certain ways) the surprises of the OT. Of course it will never perfectly fix the surprise at the end of ESB, but I think it's about as close as you can get.

 

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Some people call them Force Ghosts. I call them Midichlorian Swarms.

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These are special editions.

So I'm with Ady in saying that the PT should be adjusted to match the OT.

The line from Ben should stay.

The PT should be adjusted to match it as much as possible.

The scene above is surplus to requirements, it adds zero value to the OT or to a special edition edit.

Personally, I'd remove the more overt elements of the Anakin/Padme 'romance'.

The acting is terrible and the situation makes no sense and just makes the Jedi look really weird and creepy.

So no wedding, no deliberation about if the romance is wrong or right.

Anakin and Padme's mutual attraction would be obvious.

Her pregnancy would be obvious.

But who the father is could still be a bit of an open question.

She hangs around Bail Organa a lot so maybe things didn't work out between her and Anakin and he is resentful.

The audience should think that maybe Leia is the child and Bail really is her father.

If we see only one delivery the revelation of twins will be a bigger surprise.

That way we can see Anakin fight Obi-Wan and see Padme give birth but still don't know that Luke's father is Vader or that Leia is his sister.

I'm very drawn to the idea of removing Yoda from the PT and reduce him to awe filled mentions.

Having him replaced by another Jedi, preferably a human creates space to inject fresh material of higher story value to replace the stupid material removed.

Ideally Anakin and Padme should be under less focus and become more realistic and easy to care about. So much of what we see them do in the official cuts makes them dislikable (Anakin's entitlement and whining coupled with his child murdering and domestic abuse, Padme's prick teasing and her eventual selfish child denying suicide).

Ian McDiamid does a reasonably good job at playing Palpatine but if he had a Tarkin like character to spread the load it would be easier to lance the worst scenes of ROTS where he acts like Henrietta from Evil Dead 2.

If new characters (particularly Jedi) took up some of the slack the PT would be more about the collapse of the Republic/the rise of the Empire and less of a soap written by a 14yr old boy. 

 

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When the student is ready, the Master speaks?

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If that were so wouldn't Palpatine send his troops right there and kill him?

It makes more sense if nobody knows where Yoda is in the PT (he has become an exile for reasons best known to himself).

Maybe Obi-Wan finds out at the end of the PT and lands there to seek guidance.

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When the student is ready, the Master speaks?

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Not if palpatine never finds out, just because the Jedi work with Palpatine (and who knows, perhaps in some edit, the Temple will be moved off coruscant) does not mean that they are required to reveal all of their secrets to him, though admittedly Vader would probably know.

John Williams score to Return of the Jedi Remastered/Remixed:

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/JOHN-WILLIAMS-Star-Wars-Episode-VI-Return-of-the-Jedi-Remastered-Edition/topic/14606/page/1/

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... I'm not a big fan of moving Yoda too much in the PT, besides rearranging his lines as per the "Yoda Speech Pattern" thread.

but.. were that to take place, Anakin doesn't ever have to actually meet with Yoda. Obi-Wan says he thought his could train Anakin as well as Yoda trained him. Implying Yoda played no hand in Anakin's training. Perhaps replacing Yoda's shots in the Council with a hologram could work. You could change the background of the scene at the end of TPM (Agree with you the council does, your apprentice skywalker will be) to appear as if it happens on Dagobah.

Some people call them Force Ghosts. I call them Midichlorian Swarms.

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fishmanlee said:

Not if palpatine never finds out, just because the Jedi work with Palpatine (and who knows, perhaps in some edit, the Temple will be moved off coruscant) does not mean that they are required to reveal all of their secrets to him, though admittedly Vader would probably know.

That's a big probably.

When the student is ready, the Master speaks?

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nightstalkerpoet said:

... I'm not a big fan of moving Yoda too much in the PT, besides rearranging his lines as per the "Yoda Speech Pattern" thread.

but.. were that to take place, Anakin doesn't ever have to actually meet with Yoda. Obi-Wan says he thought his could train Anakin as well as Yoda trained him. Implying Yoda played no hand in Anakin's training. Perhaps replacing Yoda's shots in the Council with a hologram could work. You could change the background of the scene at the end of TPM (Agree with you the council does, your apprentice skywalker will be) to appear as if it happens on Dagobah.

But if you're trying to preserve the reveals in the OT you can't show Yoda as the revelation that this eccentric little green dude is actually a Jedi master is a big thing in ESB.

Help back DEEP SIX!

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You might lose the Yoda revelation... but it is such a short period of time in which it takes place (from meeting Yoda to learning who he really is) that it's not as big of a loss. It's hard to remember some of the "surprises of the OT"... I'd completely forgotten that first time seeing it where you think he's some random alien there to get on Luke's nerves.

However, I will say that the PT changed it to a different revelation... the revelation that to a certain degree, Yoda did go a bit nuts on Dagobah. I think for a first time viewer watching films 1-6, they might seriously be in shock "Oh my god - That's Yoda now.Wtf happened to him??!!"

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Some people call them Force Ghosts. I call them Midichlorian Swarms.

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