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The Marvel Cinematic Universe

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Phase 1:

Phase 2:

Phase 3:

Phase 4:

  • Spider-man 2
  • Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3

Ancillary Projects:

So what do you think of what’s come so far and where it’s going?

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I have to say I love it and I think those posters are amazing. I grew up reading comics and this is exactly the sort of thing that I hoped would happen,a bunch of interlocked and fun movies. To me these are the perfect summer popcorn flicks,they are exciting,have good timeless characters,and a sense of fun and adventure that has been missing from comic books lately. Now don't get me wrong I love movies like Citizen Kane and the Seventh Seal,but some times I just want to watch a good adventure and so far the marvel movies have delivered. The only one I have not enjoyed in Iron Man 3 and for comic book movies that is a great track record.  7/8 of all their movies being something I enjoy is an amazing feat that my hat goes off to them.

I think my favorite part of the universe isn't even the super hero movies. I know a lot of people felt let down by it but I am really enjoying Agents of Shield. In superhero movies before I always wondered how the big events effected people without powers and now I have got a whole show that if focused on just that and the latest plot arc that ties in with CATWS(A movie I hope to see tomorrow)has been great. What is more I like all the characters and it has been the most enjoyable show I have been able to watch this season. I wish I had high speed because it looks like the other shows are going to Netflix where I will not be able to watch them,but you can't have everything.

I have to say I have never read a GOTG comic but I am really impressed that Marvel isn't just sticking to the safe books and they are making a movie out of something that goofy and campy and based on the trailers I am really looking forward to it. That and Godzilla may be the movies I am most looking forward to this summer.

I think Marvel has done a great job so far and even if they put a foot wrong once in a while they really seem to be trying and car about their movies so i will keep coming back. Long live the Marvel cinematic universe I say.

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DrCrowTStarwars said:

I think my favorite part of the universe isn't even the super hero movies. I know a lot of people felt let down by it but I am really enjoying Agents of Shield. In superhero movies before I always wondered how the big events effected people without powers and now I have got a whole show that if focused on just that and the latest plot arc that ties in with CATWS(A movie I hope to see tomorrow)has been great. What is more I like all the characters and it has been the most enjoyable show I have been able to watch this season.

 I would have recommended seeing The Winter Soldier first before this last episode but yeah Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. is great. I have to admit, I gave up on it early on as they hadn't hit the right tone yet but I did always intend to go back. After seeing The Winter Soldier I had to see the impact that was going to have on the show. I was not disappointed. I was also delighted to find out the season isn't even over yet!

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Yeah I can't wait to see TWS now and I am loving AOS.

I find that a good rule of thumb is to give a new show a season or some to find it's feet. It's not easy figuring out the correct balance on a TV production,you are not given a lot of time so the producers and writers have to learn as they go. MASH,STTNG,and B5 all took most of their first seasons to figure out what worked,so I stuck with it on Shield because I liked the characters and it seems like everyone working on the show is trying.  My favorite characters of FitzSimmons.

I have to say the way they ended the last episode was so shocking I was surprised it was not the season ending cliffhanger. The wait for Tuesday is killing me.

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After the recent episode of S.H.I.E.L.D. it seems like they were biding their time until they could write the show that they really wanted to write. Apart from two episodes previous to this it now feels that they were written out of a sense of obligation rather than actually wanting to write that episode. It's like they were just setting things up for the show they actually wanted to do. Just how I feel about this before I didn't really feel like that. I thought it was a pretty decent series but then that episode happened and showed what they seemed to want to do from the start. It seems to me like the only episodes that weren't just obligatory set-up were the pilot and the bridge. The rest were either set-up or random action pieces.

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Truth be told, I don't enjoy the MCU. There's far too much style, not nearly enough substance.

I'd much rather watch superhero movies that are smaller in scale, with more emphasis placed on character development, than ones with big explosions, CG monsters, and megalomaniacal villains trying to take over the world. 

I believe the original, theatrical versions of SW & TESB are great films. Beyond that, I have little in common with the typical
Star Wars fan here. Just a heads-up so you aren’t too taken aback when I say I prefer Dark Empire over Return of the Jedi.

My screenplay index.

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DC wishes their movies were like Marvel's. We've come a long way from bungled adaptations like this. ;)

I was a Rocket Raccoon fan from his early comic appearances. If GOTG does well, perhaps we can get a more faithful Howard the Duck movie someday.

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Where were you in '77?

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On the flip side of the coin, I thought the 1978 Doctor Strange tv movie was pretty good for it's time. Pity it didn't get a series.


Where were you in '77?

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I was a bit luke warm about Spidey2 until I saw this clip on TV last night...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qiLY8o2IXGw

...makes it look like so much fun. Gonna see it for sure now.

It goes without saying that the action will be good, so it's great that it looks like they've got the much more important things like character, chemistry and fun down. Love the Charlie Chaplin refrence at the end.

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I don't know about the Rhino being some sort of exoskeletal robot thingy that I glimpsed in the ads. Not the villain I grew up with.


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DuracellEnergizer said:

Truth be told, I don't enjoy the MCU. There's far too much style, not nearly enough substance.

I'd much rather watch superhero movies that are smaller in scale, with more emphasis placed on character development, than ones with big explosions, CG monsters, and megalomaniacal villains trying to take over the world. 

  I think they got the focus just right,these are supposed to be adventure stories for kids after all so the focus should be on the adventure.

Each movie has had enough moments to make me care about the characters and the setting so I don't really have a problem. I mean people have complained that the Spiderman and XMen series had too many shots of heroes crying so you have to find a balance and I think they did.

Then again i may just have awful taste in movies because I like those cheesy adventure shorts from the 30s and 40s and I enjoyed the two Fantastic Four movies. You may not want to take my word for what is good and what is bad.

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I find Avengers to be greater than the sum of its parts - when you get those characters and ideas together there is room for some interesting storytelling but the only character I enjoy in their solo outings is Iron Man.

I can enjoy the spectacle of Thor movies but I can't take them seriously, Captain America is mildly entertaining and the less said about the Hulk the better.

I feel like Agents of SHIELD is wasted potential and I'd much rather see something focused on Agent Carter, Howard Stark and the formation of SHIELD.

I quite like the one-shots, crossovers and Easter eggs throughout.

I have zero interest in stuff that is loosely tied to the universe such as Guardians of the Galaxy, Ant Man etc.

I feel like they've done well so far to tie it all together even if some of it is weaker than I'd like. It hasn't been perfect, though. Iron Man 2 suffered from Too much Nick Fury / Avengers meddling.

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Ant man is a founding member of The Avengers and the creator of the villain in the second Avengers movies,I would hardly call him loosely connected. Also it has a great director in charge so I would say we are in safe hands.

Oh and as I said I know nothing about them but I applaud marvel for taking a chance on GOTG. Most studios wouldn't give something that off beat a chance. I am glad they are using the success of the other movies as a spring board to try other things and hopefully GOTG will do well so they will give other lesser known comics a chances. Projects like Ant Man and GOTG give me hope that Marvel is willing to shake things up and will not let this universe go stale an time soon. I hope the rumors of a Doctor Strange movie are true because I would love to see that and it would really shake things up.

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I meant Ant Man the character - in the film franchise, not Ant Man the Man. I am aware of the history and connections of the character [avengers/ ultron etc]

I never said it would be bad - I just have no interest.

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I didn't mean to imply you had to be interested. I was just trying to explain why I think Marvel is doing the Ant Man movie and why I am looking forward to it and GOTG.

It also doesn't hurt that AntMan is being directed by Edger Wright and he directed Hot Fuzz one of my top ten favorite films. So I am really looking forward to Antman.

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Johnny Ringo said:

I feel like Agents of SHIELD is wasted potential and I'd much rather see something focused on Agent Carter, Howard Stark and the formation of SHIELD.

 You're in luck on that regard. They're in talks to create just that show.

As for AoS, as was said earlier in the thread it started off pretty wonky but it has definitely found its footing now.

Twister111 was pretty on the money earlier. As evidenced here:

How far into the planning of Agents of SHIELD did you know what would happen in Captain America: The Winter Soldier?

Maurissa Tancharoen: From the very beginning. We had the order to do a series about SHIELD and, literally, a day or two after that they said, “Oh, by the way, there’s a movie coming up that will affect your show.”

Jed Whedon: “Here, read this script.”

Tancharoen: “Read this script, and you’ll see what we’re talking about.”

Was there ever a discussion of whether or not you guys would have to play by those rules, or was it always a foregone conclusion?

Whedon: The great thing about the Marvel Universe is that it’s one universe. So, that’s the thing that makes it exciting. And that’s the opportunity we were given. And so this was obviously something we would have to incorporate. Right away, we saw both the challenges it posed and the opportunities it would bring.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Given the size and sweep of this change, is there anything about the show as we know it that’s sacred? Is there anything immune to the fallout?

Whedon: It’ll still be 43 minutes long.

Tancharoen: On Tuesdays at 8.

Whedon: "Nothing is sacred" is an important thing, so there’s jeopardy at all times.

Tancharoen: It’s safe to say that there will be a shift.

Judging from your post Johnny, it seems like you might not have seen The Winter Soldier yet. I would highly recommend it.

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I would hope Garrett Morris gets a cameo in Ant Man. ;)


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DrCrowTStarwars said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

Truth be told, I don't enjoy the MCU. There's far too much style, not nearly enough substance.

I'd much rather watch superhero movies that are smaller in scale, with more emphasis placed on character development, than ones with big explosions, CG monsters, and megalomaniacal villains trying to take over the world. 

  I think they got the focus just right,these are supposed to be adventure stories for kids after all so the focus should be on the adventure.

A story can have adventure without sacrificing/deemphasizing characterization and without the entire city/nation/world/etc. having to be at risk.

Each movie has had enough moments to make me care about the characters and the setting so I don't really have a problem.

The thing is is that if a superhero movie just doesn't click for me, I'm not going to give any of its sequels a chance. I need satisfactory characterization right off the bat, otherwise that's all she'll write.

I mean people have complained that the Spiderman and XMen series had too many shots of heroes crying so you have to find a balance and I think they did.

From the MCU movies I've seen, I've seen no balance whatsoever. If anything, they just sit on the opposite end of the spectrum from the movies you mentioned.

I believe the original, theatrical versions of SW & TESB are great films. Beyond that, I have little in common with the typical
Star Wars fan here. Just a heads-up so you aren’t too taken aback when I say I prefer Dark Empire over Return of the Jedi.

My screenplay index.

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DuracellEnergizer said:

DrCrowTStarwars said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

Truth be told, I don't enjoy the MCU. There's far too much style, not nearly enough substance.

I'd much rather watch superhero movies that are smaller in scale, with more emphasis placed on character development, than ones with big explosions, CG monsters, and megalomaniacal villains trying to take over the world. 

  I think they got the focus just right,these are supposed to be adventure stories for kids after all so the focus should be on the adventure.

A story can have adventure without sacrificing/deemphasizing characterization and without the entire city/nation/world/etc. having to be at risk.

Each movie has had enough moments to make me care about the characters and the setting so I don't really have a problem.

The thing is is that if a superhero movie just doesn't click for me, I'm not going to give any of its sequels a chance. I need satisfactory characterization right off the bat, otherwise that's all she'll write.

I mean people have complained that the Spiderman and XMen series had too many shots of heroes crying so you have to find a balance and I think they did.

From the MCU movies I've seen, I've seen no balance whatsoever. If anything, they just sit on the opposite end of the spectrum from the movies you mentioned.

 That's funny because it seems to me each of these movies has been focused on the characters and I am not saying that you can't have character moments in a kids movie but I do think you can go too far and loose the sense that you are on an adventure,just look at Superman Returns. I wanted to like that movie but in the end I don't watch a superhero movie to learn about bastard kids and break up.

Are you really saying that there should be no action scenes of any kind in these movies? Because each one seems to have been focused on the character,just with an adventure story.  They have as many character moments as the original Star Wars movies and everything that happens is a direct reaction to our heroes.

Iron Man. Everything in this is a reaction to Tony's actions and his discovery that he doesn't really like the man he has become and tries to change.

The Incredible Hulk is all about a man at war with himself and it is played out like a form of PTSD. The whole focus is all Bruce Banner and how being the Hulk effects him and everyone around him.

Iron Man 2 is about Tony going through all the stages of grief when he finds out he is dying and trying to make a connection to his dead father who's own actions are now effecting him. It's played really well and again every single thing that happens is linked into how the character is reacting to coming face to face with his own mortality. Again the focus is squarely on the character.

Thor is my favorite of the Marvel movies and it is all about the character. The whole reason Thor is on earth is so he can grow and we see that. He has the best,least over the top,and most believable love story I have ever seen in a comic book. We see his heart break when he gets the news from Loki that their father is dead. We see him refuse to go into battle when it will only get others killed,and then he cuts himself off from the woman he loves to save people who he was going to kill himself earlier in the movie and I believe it all because we have spent our time with him and gotten into his head. It's all about him and his relationships with others and how they change him over the course of his adventure. I could write a whole lot more about how Loki is written so well in this movie that he almost doesn't count as a villain but that would be rambling.

Captain American is all about how a boy becomes a hero. Again everything that happens is pretty much a character moment that is there to change him and boy does it change him. His relationship with Bucky is great and the scene where he loses him and then reveals that he can't get drunk is just amazing but again this movie never forgets that it is an old fashioned adventure story so like Star Wars we don't spend half an hour listen to him cry,you don't need to do that when you have good actors,instead he has to deal with the problem in front of him.

The Avengers was just an amazing piece of work. They put all those heroes together onscreen and it was all about them and how they related to each other and that is not easy to do. We see the conflicts between the members and we see them come together as a team and Tony's best moment is when he learns that he can depend on other people and he gives up control and gives Captain America command of the team.

Are these stories played out on a big canvass just like Star Wars? Yes. Does that make them bad movies? no.  The characters are there. You can have big action scenes and that doesn't mean you have to match them minute for minute with characters crying. Did we have even one scene in Star Wars with Liea cried over the destruction of her home world? No because the story didn't need it. Compared to that these movies are chopped full of character moments. Maybe these movies should try to be more like Citizen Kane and the modern comics and we should just get two hours of Tony getting drunk with no threat or action of any kind but that wouldn't sell tickets and that isn't what I was expecting going in.  I was expecting an adventure that revolved around the heroes I grew up reading about in the comics and that is exactly what I got.  I think they have done a great job focusing on the characters since while keeping the adventure aspects in tact.

As for there being too much action well here is the thing you kind of need that to justify the heroes being called into action in the first place. if the world isn't in danger can you really justify calling in a man in a robot suit,a super powered ww2 vet,a giant green monster,and Norse god?  Not really. If the story was just about parking tickets,or someone stealing something then that would seem like compete overkill. Plus the threat has to be something that is on par with their powers,so it really does take something that threatens the world to push these guys to their limits and if it didn't threaten the world well there would be no reason for these guys to get involved in the first place. it would really look like they were over reacting.

Again I go back to Star Wars because it is one of the most perfect examples of this type of story on the big screen. There is a reason Lucas set the stakes so high in those movies and that is because anything less and what the rebels were doing would seem like a complete over reaction and the drama would be lost. I mean if taxes were just a little high and the whole movie was about nothing but people complaining about them would we still support the rebels killing tens of thousands of people to change things? No,that would seem like a complete over reaction and there wouldn't be any real stakes in the story.  it may have resulted in more character moments but that wouldn't have made them better movies.

In order to justify calling out something like The Avengers you need a threat that is pretty extreme,and that is what these movies give us.

When I say these movies are for kids I don't mean they are stupid and you should turn off your brain what I mean is that they are adventure stories for kids and you should watch them the same way you watch Star Wars. When you are a kid you just instinctively understand that people are going to but upset but things like their home being destroyed and you don't want to watch them spend two hours crying about it. What you want to see is what they do about it,that is what makes heroes well..heroes. You want a larger then life world that you can escape into and not be bothered by all the things adults worry about day to day. You want to be able to believe the characters are human so you can relate to them and insert yourself into the adventure but you also want them to be larger then life and to be bold and take you to places you can never see in real life. That is what these movies do for me. That put me in touch with the kid inside of me. No they are no in depth explorations of characters that are on par with Citizen Kane but they don't have to be. They are about giving us a part of our childhood back and that is what every one of them has done for me so far and I find enough depth to the characters that I like them and understand what they are going through. I know comics in recent years tend to spend issue after issue looking at things like characters' drinking problems and have no action in them but remember these movies just has two hours to tell a story and again they are for the ten year old in all of us not the adult. That doesn't mean that have to be stupid and for the most part these movies haven't been. Instead of comparing them to comics and movies like The King's Speech I think we should compare them to Star Wars because they is the type of feel they are going for.  Look around at any kids you run into and you will see these movies are this generation's star wars and turning them into some dark character drama would wreck that. Please don't wreck that for the kids,adults could have easily spoiled Star Wars for us by holding it up to the standards of an adult drama but they didn't. Let the kids have their moment and if you go to the theaters go in expecting a fun ride where you reconnect with your inner child. If you can't do that all well and good but I wouldn't call the movies bad or act like the people working on them are not trying to produce good movies. I think that have produced really good escapist adventure stories and I look forward to loosing myself in the adventures of Captain America an over the top hero who lives in a larger then life world for two hours this afternoon.

If you can't do that fine. Still for me and I know alot of others these movies leave us with big grins on our faces and just feeling better about things in general then we did when we walked it and anything that does that for me is a good movie in my book.

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DuracellEnergizer said:

The thing is is that if a superhero movie just doesn't click for me, I'm not going to give any of its sequels a chance. I need satisfactory characterization right off the bat, otherwise that's all she'll write.

 There's your problem right there. The first set of films were to establish the characters. The post-Avengers aka Phase 2 films have all been about character growth and dealing with the aftermath of the Battle of New York. Iron Man 3 has Tony Stark dealing with PTSD, Thor 2 is about the relationship between he and his brother and Cap2 is about Steve Rogers trying to find his place in the world.

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DrCrowTStarwars said:

Are you really saying that there should be no action scenes of any kind in these movies?

No. I'm just saying that not everything has to be about giant robots, giant robots, alien invasions, world-conquering supervillains, etc. for it to have action in it. Smaller-scale stories -- ones about kidnappings, hostage situations, etc. -- are just as capable of delivering action as their bombastic cousins.

DrCrowTStarwars said:

Because each one seems to have been focused on the character,just with an adventure story. They have as many character moments as the original Star Wars movies and everything that happens is a direct reaction to our heroes.

*Everything else*

Okay. I'm going to list each of the MCU movies I've seen, and bring up my grievances with each of them.

Iron Man

I just didn't like Tony Stark's character. He came off as too much of a douchebag for me to root for him.

As for everything else -- the supporting cast, the villains, the story in general -- it was all just very average to me.

The Incredible Hulk

Liv Tyler was as bland as soggy toilet paper and Tim Roth's only motivation was penis envy. The rest of the movie was just a run-of-the-mill action movie that didn't do anything for me whatsoever.

Thor

The writer(s) cut out the Donald Blake aspect of the character -- removing the human element from Thor completely -- and just turned him into an arrogant blonde douchbag who meandered around the whole movie acting like an arrogant blonde douchbag until finally learning humility because the plot said he had to, not because the character actually showed any signs of progession or growth over the course of the movie's runtime.

While the actor who portrayed Loki did a good job with what he had to work with, the character in the movie basically was just an emo with daddy issues, far from the magnificent bastard of the comics.

Natalie Portman was a boring non-entity, just like always.

Tobar said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

The thing is is that if a superhero movie just doesn't click for me, I'm not going to give any of its sequels a chance. I need satisfactory characterization right off the bat, otherwise that's all she'll write.

There's your problem right there. The first set of films were to establish the characters. The post-Avengers aka Phase 2 films have all been about character growth and dealing with the aftermath of the Battle of New York. Iron Man 3 has Tony Stark dealing with PTSD, Thor 2 is about the relationship between he and his brother and Cap2 is about Steve Rogers trying to find his place in the world.

Ah, yes -- I have to watch the sequels to get the "full story". Just like I have to read the novels and the comics, watch the TV shows, and play the video games to get the "full story" of the prequels.

And therein lies another problem with superhero movies these days -- everything is written with sequels in mind. Nothing is self-contained anymore; everything has to be a fragment of a larger story.

This post has been edited.

I believe the original, theatrical versions of SW & TESB are great films. Beyond that, I have little in common with the typical
Star Wars fan here. Just a heads-up so you aren’t too taken aback when I say I prefer Dark Empire over Return of the Jedi.

My screenplay index.

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