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The Look of Terminator 2

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Was T2 ever a very grainy movie for its time? The Skynet Edition Blu Ray is pretty smooth and it seems possible that some DNR was applied, seeing as how it was shot in the grainier Super 35 rather than scope, but I read an interesting piece from several years ago about how Cameron had gotten pretty good at reducing grain in his Super 35 masters by the time Titanic rolled around. Anyone more knowledgeable about the film's history have an idea?

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skynet edition was a hot mess indeed. From what I've heard there's a new release of T2 that although it's from the same master as skynet edition it didn't have the dnr applied or at least it was minimally used.

kk650 says he used the spanish release of t2 for his regrade which has a nice grain structure and from what I can tell no dnr. I'm betting that that version is the same as the one they just released.

I'd be interested to hear the answer to your question as well. Outside of his overuse of teal his movies look fantastic on blu ray.

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The Skynet 100% had a DNR pass, the new disc that came out this week is missing this pass.

The issue with T2 is theEE baked mess of a master they use, its from 2003 and was not well done even then.

The UK optimum disc is still the best looking, but is fromt hat same old tired master.

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There's a new release and they still haven't remastered it? :'(

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/128358

It looks like Lionsgate have finally stopped using the vertically-stretched version?

EDIT2: Never mind, as I thought, it's just LESS stretched than the JP...

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/128940
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/128941
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/128831

So there is still no unstretched encode of the Theatrical cut better than the mushy EU VC-1 or 2003 WMV HD.

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Cameron has been dragging his feet on the promised Abyss/T2/True Lies 4K rescans for years; remember how long it took for T1 to get rescanned? (Though isn't that Cinemax transfer of Abyss "tealed", implying that it may be Cameron-supervised?)

Like dvdmike, I am of the belief that all the Blu-rays are based on one (2K?) scan done some time in the 00s (I also assume for the Extreme DVD), because they all look more alike than different.

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It looks like they're using a non DNRed transfer like the spanish blu-ray this time, with the ratio correct like on the spanish blu-ray and not vertically stretched. Not sure why they decided to make the fleshtones even more red and sunburnt than the skynet edition though.

Looking at the other releases of T2 on caps-a-holic, the fleshtones appear to all be the same as the skynet edition, so this new release stands out in that regard and not in a good way IMHO.

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Again, I have a feeling that these are all different permutations of the image harvest done for the Extreme DVD transfer (as in, the original scan - presumably 2K - before any DNR, EE, color correction, etc.)

I have a feeling T2 is not going to get rescanned until it needs to be released in 4K, because Cameron takes forever to do anything these days.

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Well The Abyss has already been done and aired on TV. True Lies has also been done by Reliance. Both are tealed.

The T2 master is from 2003 yes but it's on D-5 HD tape at 1080PsF.

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/114-hdtv-software-media-discussion/1073273-terminator-2-judgment-day-all-high-definition-releases-comparison-pix.html

kk650 said:

It looks like they're using a non DNRed transfer like the spanish blu-ray this time, with the ratio correct like on the spanish blu-ray and not vertically stretched.

 Still stretched, see post #4. :\

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OK, so I guess T2 is the lone holdout. (But then why the heck hasn't Fox actually released Abyss or True Lies on BD yet? But I guess that's not a rhetorical question for this thread.)

Who knows, we may see the eventual new 4K transfer make a "stealth" debut as a DCP, as happened with Ghostbusters, apparently Star Trek II, and possibly some others.

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drngr said:

Well The Abyss has already been done and aired on TV. True Lies has also been done by Reliance. Both are tealed.

The T2 master is from 2003 yes but it's on D-5 HD tape at 1080PsF.

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/114-hdtv-software-media-discussion/1073273-terminator-2-judgment-day-all-high-definition-releases-comparison-pix.html

kk650 said:

It looks like they're using a non DNRed transfer like the spanish blu-ray this time, with the ratio correct like on the spanish blu-ray and not vertically stretched.

 Still stretched, see post #4. :\

Ah fair enough, its just less stretched than the Japanese release. A step in the right direction anyway. I'll have to compare it to the spanish blu-ray later. I think we all know that any new remaster is going to be tealed :(

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For the non-Skynet Special Edition cut, Spanish = French = 1st Optimum UK (= some other countries too -- I think). They all use the same 18901kbps VC-1 that originally appeared on StudioCanal's FR HD DVD.

EDIT: If someone's LinkedIn is to be believed, Reliance has done Terminator 2:

Digital Artist
Reliance MediaWorks VFX
July 2008 – August 2014 (6 years 2 months) / Burbank, CA

Manual digital film restoration such as tape damage, dirt removal, warp and bump correction. 3D Post production such as the removal of artifacts, glares and wire removal. Worked on titles such as


The Simpsons for FXX, original Star Wars trilogy (a new hope, empire strikes back and return of the jedi)

Disney's Pinnochio, Alice and Wonderland, Dumbo, Fantasia to mention a few.

Live action films such as:
Avatar, The Abyss,Alien, Aliens,The Curious Case of Benjamin Button, Fight Club, , Terminator, Terminator 2, True Lies, The Robe, 7 year Itch, ¡A volar joven! Akira Kurosawa's "Rashomon" to mention a few.

EDIT2: And their former Director of Image Processing says that Alien, Aliens, Terminator, The Abyss and True Lies were all completed in 2K. I guess T2 was done after he wrote this profile, so it could be 4K.

Director of Image Processing
Reliance MediaWorks Ltd.
June 2006 – October 2010 (4 years 5 months)

A position equal parts technical, managerial and artistic. The role required the ability to set an aesthetic look for high-end restorations or A-list feature films, design image processing routines using a custom yet complex toolset, construct a production budget, then supervise talent to produce the work under a given deadline.

Some of the more notable projects completed during my tenure were Avatar, Prometheus, The Amazing Spiderman, The Social Network, The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo and The Curious Case of Benjamin Button. The Image Processing team completed 4K restorations of The Star Wars Trilogy and Titanic and 2K restorations of Alien, Aliens, Terminator, The Abyss and True Lies.

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Oy. Another good movie lowried.

"Right now the coffees are doing their final work." (Airi, Masked Rider Den-o episode 1)

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Was there another source saying it was done? I forget if it was in that one list that included The Abyss etc.

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Wow, I had no idea there was a new Blu Ray. Even if it is based on the same old transfer the lack of DNR pumps a bit of life into what's kind of a flat film, visually speaking.

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The film can and will look better, well after people on here manage to fix the teal in the new master.

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That's indeed closer to the 35 mm print I saw last september. T2 is supposed to look tealer, with a bit of purple and it's supposed to be a bit darker than it is on video. On the print I saw, in the steel factory, there was less orange than there is on video, and one shot especially that I recall was pretty much all yellow.

see here : http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Terminator-2-in-search-of-the-theatrical-sound-mix/post/771312/#TopicPost771312

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If you are in Paris on June the 30th, you can go to the so-called "Terminator marathon" that will show Terminator, Terminator 2 and Terminator Genisys on the Grand Large screen. There's no description whether it will be 35mm or DCPs. Well, the new one will definitely be DCP. Maybe the first one too, now that the restoration exists. As for T2, my guess is it will be a 35mm print.

https://legrandrex.cotecine.fr/reserver/F87041/D1435683600/VO?

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That 8mm looks amazing! 

There is no 35mm print in the UK anymore, that makes me sad.

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I find it interesting how we're seeing theatrical color timings for films like T2 that turn out to be more teal than we've gotten used to with the earlier video masters, yet clear daytime skies are never that sickly greenish teal we sometimes see on Blu-Ray regrades.

I bet those skies will look about 10% greener on the eventual remastered release. Is it that the modern grades are skewing toward the wrong shade of teal, or is it just that digital grading pushes the skies in ways that photochemical grading didn't do?

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Can we get that 8mm?!?! I need that scanned and in my life!

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TServo2049 said:

I find it interesting how we're seeing theatrical color timings for films...turn out to be more teal than we've gotten used to with the earlier video masters, yet clear daytime skies are never that sickly greenish teal we sometimes see on Blu-Ray regrades.

Is it that the modern grades are skewing toward the wrong shade of teal, or is it just that digital grading pushes the skies in ways that photochemical grading didn't do?

Well said! You just articulated EXACTLY the issue we're contending with on the GBU project.

We've gotten so used to the color timing of decades of home releases that strayed from the original "look". However, modern regrades somehow manage to miss the mark. Although certain aspects of the GBU 4K BD image are certainly more true to the theatrical prints, it's understandable why we'd dismiss the whole thing when when obvious things like the skies and even teeth take on that nasty teal.

I too wonder if this may be a limitation of digital grading.

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I saw T2 at a theater in downtown Manhattan a few years back, and I know it was an actual print due to the blemishes and cigarette burns (reel change markers). The night scenes were still their usual blue/black combo look.

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Well I don't know the color of the backlight or the exposure of the camera used to take those shots but I bet thats a bit closer to what the theatrical prints of T2 then any home video version. Not perfect but closer. 

Sadly, I was given a chance to get a 35mm print for around 600 US but couldn't afford it at the time. Believe it or not the 8mm is more expensive. Somewhere around 700. Full length, scope 8mm are rarer and widely sought since people can play at home without the big expensive 35mm equipment. It would probably be easier and cheaper to buy a 35mm print.

I think computers can get very close but can't match chemical timing perfectly. It's not the chemical timing is better or worse, it's just chemical and computer timing are different beasts.

And a bit off topic but still in the Cameron world. I posted these pics on fanres as to what Aliens looked liked in theaters:

8mm

35mm

Looks closer to the bluray then any of the other home video versions. Seems to be a color theme developing concerning Cameron's films.

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