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The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS ** — Page 166

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TV’s Frink said:

Why is anyone the way they are?

Why are you the way you are HL?

Speaking of Lady Gaga, she would have been a good addition to the Canto Bight casino.

The blue elephant in the room.

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LuckyGungan2001 said:

Michael Ward said:

Mrebo said:

Remind me of the 3PO moments?

Seems like one was about the time that he was saying mutiny was against his programming, but I don’t remember the line. They’re were a couple of others. One might have been when Finn and Poe and Rose were discussing their plan. They were not hilarious, but mildly amusing and not cringe worthy like most. The audience laughed out loud at them which I think made me enjoy them more than if I’d been by myself. Most of the other jokes landed with a thud with the audience when I saw it.

Funny how everyone who dislikes the movie seems to have gone to a showing where the jokes weren’t laughed at. All the jokes (even the dumb ones) were huge hits with the audience both times I saw it.

I didn’t like the movie, but the one and only time I saw it the jokes were laughed at. 😕


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Mielr said:

LuckyGungan2001 said:

Michael Ward said:

Mrebo said:

Remind me of the 3PO moments?

Seems like one was about the time that he was saying mutiny was against his programming, but I don’t remember the line. They’re were a couple of others. One might have been when Finn and Poe and Rose were discussing their plan. They were not hilarious, but mildly amusing and not cringe worthy like most. The audience laughed out loud at them which I think made me enjoy them more than if I’d been by myself. Most of the other jokes landed with a thud with the audience when I saw it.

Funny how everyone who dislikes the movie seems to have gone to a showing where the jokes weren’t laughed at. All the jokes (even the dumb ones) were huge hits with the audience both times I saw it.

I didn’t like the movie, but the one and only time I saw it the jokes were laughed at. 😕

The second time I saw it there were about 5 people in the theater. I don’t recall hearing laughter, but maybe they just weren’t very loud.

The blue elephant in the room.

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At all 4 showings i went to so far for TLJ, every joke got a laugh. Not just by one or two, but by most attending. At the midnight showing, the laughs were louder because the cinema was packed, same with the second showing. When the cinema is less packed the laughter can be quieter or when there are not many in there, people can be a little self conscious and tend not to laugh as much or as loudly, if at all. Happens with every film. The jokes in TLJ worked perfectly fine.

One thing i have to say since seeing the 2D presentation though is, i take back everything i said about Yoda. What the hell did they do in the 3D conversion? Did they overscrub the grain or something? Yoda, in the 3D presentations looked very smooth and almost waxy. Yet the 2D showing he looked amazing. Just like ESB Yoda. The only thing i noticed was the the puppeteer closed the mouth too tight and caused the face to squash, giving it a strange puffy look a couple of times. But that was the only thing that looked off in the 2D showing. In fact , effects wise, the whole film looked better in 2D

This post has been edited.

ANH:REVISITED
ESB:REVISITED

DONATIONS TOWARDS MATERIALS FOR THE REVISITED SAGA

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adywan said:

At all 4 showings i went to so far for TLJ, every joke got a laugh. Not just by one or two, but by most attending. At the midnight showing, the laughs were louder because the cinema was packed, same with the second showing. When the cinema is less packed the laughter can be quieter or when there are not many in there, people can be a little self conscious and tend not to laugh as much or as loudly, if at all. Happens with every film. The jokes in TLJ worked perfectly fine.

Yep, my first two screenings had a lot of laughter (almost too much). My second two had barely any, but that’s because there was barely anyone there (I was purposefully going to less busy showtimes).

Ultimately if someone else laughs or not doesn’t change whether I think a joke is funny, which I thought most of the jokes in TLJ were.

One thing i have to say since seeing the 2D presentation though is, i take back everything i said about Yoda. What the hell did they do in the 3D conversion? Did they overscrub the grain or something? Yoda, in the 3D presentations looked very smooth and almost waxy. Yet the 2D showing he looked amazing. Just like ESB Yoda. The only thing i noticed was the the puppeteer closed the mouth too tight and caused the face to squash, giving it a strange puffy look a couple of times. But that was the only thing that looked off in the 2D showing. In fact , effects wise, the whole film looked better in 2D

That’s interesting. I haven’t seen it in 3D, maybe I will if I go again, just out of curiosity.

Also, potentially fun fact, I believe I read that Frank Oz was doing the puppeteering.

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So I watched the first part and 5 minutes of the second part of this “The Lost Jedi”, and while I think some of his ideas would be interesting, some stuff just seems way too stupid to me, such as Poe saying how hot Leia looked in her RotJ bikini or R2 and Chewie telling Rey about stuff from the Clone War.
All in all there is some interesting stuff, but it’s pretty cringy.
There’s this one quote he says though: it’s not all about training to be a Jedi, it’s also about ones own journey to learn to become a Jedi.
To me Rey fails both? More so the first one than the latter though.

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adywan said:

One thing i have to say since seeing the 2D presentation though is, i take back everything i said about Yoda. What the hell did they do in the 3D conversion? Did they overscrub the grain or something? Yoda, in the 3D presentations looked very smooth and almost waxy. Yet the 2D showing he looked amazing. Just like ESB Yoda. The only thing i noticed was the the puppeteer closed the mouth too tight and caused the face to squash, giving it a strange puffy look a couple of times. But that was the only thing that looked off in the 2D showing. In fact , effects wise, the whole film looked better in 2D

Have you given any thought to foxing around with that scene when the BR comes out, Ady? Maybe while you’re working on ROTJ Yoda? After my second viewing I thought pretty much the same as you, and it occurred to me that tweaking the mouth much like you did in ESB would go a long way to making him look nearly perfect.

Beginner of many projects, finisher of few

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Collipso said:

So I watched the first part and 5 minutes of the second part of this “The Lost Jedi”, and while I think some of his ideas would be interesting, some stuff just seems way too stupid to me, such as Poe saying how hot Leia looked in her RotJ bikini or R2 and Chewie telling Rey about stuff from the Clone War.
All in all there is some interesting stuff, but it’s pretty cringy.
There’s this one quote he says though: it’s not all about training to be a Jedi, it’s also about ones own journey to learn to become a Jedi.
To me Rey fails both? More so the first one than the latter though.

I can see that. But the humor isn’t any worse than the claptrap in TLJ (IMO).
What I like about it is the actual story line. He seems to get the characters better than RJ!
But maybe it is wishful thinking because I was so disappointed in TLJ. Who knows

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Mrebo said:

Creox said:

Mrebo said:

DominicCobb said:

Mrebo said:

DominicCobb said:

Mrebo said:

DominicCobb said:

Mrebo said:

DominicCobb said:

ExNihilo said:

DominicCobb said:

Even if Finn makes it, in a melted skimmer I can’t see how that’d do much.

And I meant there are other ways to blow open that big ass door, I’m sure.

It looked like just peripheries like the guns. Fuselage was intact just prior to Rose’s interception.
They are practically at the mouth of the cannon. I have trouble buying he wasn’t going to make it or he wasn’t going to do much damage.

I guess this really does come down to individual perception. I just didn’t see it the same way you did.

Well obviously the reaction says they could have made this clearer, as many people have misinterpreted the scene. I took it, when Poe called it off as a “suicide mission,” that it wasn’t worth it, and that’s all I needed to know and the rest could easily be assumed without being stated outright.

I don’t see what the contradiction is. Poe said it was a suicide mission…and it would have been. Says nothing about whether Finn could have accomplished the mission. That it could have been the like the Dreadnaught victory is what made Poe’s arc complete.

Whether Finn could have taken out the ram is not the point. Poe called off the mission because it wasn’t worth it, either way. That’s the point.

The back-and-forth concerned whether Finn could have made it. The point you’ve moved onto is a different point, one that basically negates your previous insistence that Finn wasn’t going to make it. I think you’re wrong on the previous point and right on this one.

I’m not sure I understand how that negates the previous point, or how I’ve even moved on from it. They are related points.

Whether Finn would have made it is a part of the larger conversation of “is Poe a coward?” and “did Rose doom the Resistance?” But what’s actually important is that Poe determined it wasn’t worth it. From there the assumptions fall into place - to me, it looked like Finn wasn’t going to make it and even if he did, it wouldn’t have done anything. On the other side, even if Finn did make it and he did blow up the ram, then it still wouldn’t have been worth it because the First Order would just break in another way.

Whichever is actually the case doesn’t change the answers to “is Poe a coward?” and “did Rose doom the Resistance?”, the answer to both of which is of course no.

The relation between the two points can be explored. The previous dialogue did not concern Poe’s arc. You’ve injected that into it now, which is totally fine, but it’s helpful when we can be clear to avoid misunderstandings.

So let’s consider the relation between (1) Finn flying into the weapon and (2) Poe calling off the mission.

If Finn flew into the weapon, that doesn’t negate Poe’s arc. It arguably makes it stronger, with Poe not only calling off the mission but feeling the sting of loss when a commander is disobeyed. If Finn is successful, then all the better when Poe says it wasn’t worth it.

Or we can imagine that it is Poe who rams Finn. Poe acknowledges that Finn could have made it but “that’s how we’re gonna win. Not fighting what we hate, saving what we love.” Followed, of course, by a kiss.

I never said Finn flying into the weapon would negate Poe’s arc. But the two things are connected. Poe understands suicide missions aren’t worth it. Finn doesn’t yet. Rose saving Finn is teaching him that lesson (“that’s how we’re gonna win…”).

I guess I’m not even sure what you’re trying to say.

The discussion was whether Finn could and should have destroyed the weapon. Then you backed into an argument on Poe’s arc. I said that I didn’t see any contradiction with what others were saying on the topic of Finn’s attempted sacrifice.

I said that your previous insistence that Finn was destined to fail was negated. Because Poe completed his arc no matter what Finn did.

Now you add another layer, seeming to suggest that there is a thematic parallel, and not that the two scenes are somehow dependent on each other, which is what I thought you were saying. Which is a pretty good argument; but you backed into it.

And I think my suggestions offer good alternative themes and lessons.

Back to the original discussion, Finn could totally have destroyed the battering ram, giving the rebels a chance to escape.

My take on that scene was that Finn was going to die before destroying the weapon…his speeder was falling apart rapidly and the beam was already brightening…signifying it was already too late.

I think Rian was showing us that Finn was ready to die for the cause…he had become “rebel scum” instead of just “scum”.

As a fictional movie with a nonsense weapon like the Starkiller, Finn could have lived or died. I read the scene that Finn was more brave and selfless than stupid, so I lean toward the possibility of living. In the end, it’s an academic obsessive fan debate anyway.

Fair enough…but obsessive (a wee bit) appears to be what this site is all about…amiright? 😉

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Creox said:

Mrebo said:

Creox said:

Mrebo said:

DominicCobb said:

Mrebo said:

DominicCobb said:

Mrebo said:

DominicCobb said:

Mrebo said:

DominicCobb said:

ExNihilo said:

DominicCobb said:

Even if Finn makes it, in a melted skimmer I can’t see how that’d do much.

And I meant there are other ways to blow open that big ass door, I’m sure.

It looked like just peripheries like the guns. Fuselage was intact just prior to Rose’s interception.
They are practically at the mouth of the cannon. I have trouble buying he wasn’t going to make it or he wasn’t going to do much damage.

I guess this really does come down to individual perception. I just didn’t see it the same way you did.

Well obviously the reaction says they could have made this clearer, as many people have misinterpreted the scene. I took it, when Poe called it off as a “suicide mission,” that it wasn’t worth it, and that’s all I needed to know and the rest could easily be assumed without being stated outright.

I don’t see what the contradiction is. Poe said it was a suicide mission…and it would have been. Says nothing about whether Finn could have accomplished the mission. That it could have been the like the Dreadnaught victory is what made Poe’s arc complete.

Whether Finn could have taken out the ram is not the point. Poe called off the mission because it wasn’t worth it, either way. That’s the point.

The back-and-forth concerned whether Finn could have made it. The point you’ve moved onto is a different point, one that basically negates your previous insistence that Finn wasn’t going to make it. I think you’re wrong on the previous point and right on this one.

I’m not sure I understand how that negates the previous point, or how I’ve even moved on from it. They are related points.

Whether Finn would have made it is a part of the larger conversation of “is Poe a coward?” and “did Rose doom the Resistance?” But what’s actually important is that Poe determined it wasn’t worth it. From there the assumptions fall into place - to me, it looked like Finn wasn’t going to make it and even if he did, it wouldn’t have done anything. On the other side, even if Finn did make it and he did blow up the ram, then it still wouldn’t have been worth it because the First Order would just break in another way.

Whichever is actually the case doesn’t change the answers to “is Poe a coward?” and “did Rose doom the Resistance?”, the answer to both of which is of course no.

The relation between the two points can be explored. The previous dialogue did not concern Poe’s arc. You’ve injected that into it now, which is totally fine, but it’s helpful when we can be clear to avoid misunderstandings.

So let’s consider the relation between (1) Finn flying into the weapon and (2) Poe calling off the mission.

If Finn flew into the weapon, that doesn’t negate Poe’s arc. It arguably makes it stronger, with Poe not only calling off the mission but feeling the sting of loss when a commander is disobeyed. If Finn is successful, then all the better when Poe says it wasn’t worth it.

Or we can imagine that it is Poe who rams Finn. Poe acknowledges that Finn could have made it but “that’s how we’re gonna win. Not fighting what we hate, saving what we love.” Followed, of course, by a kiss.

I never said Finn flying into the weapon would negate Poe’s arc. But the two things are connected. Poe understands suicide missions aren’t worth it. Finn doesn’t yet. Rose saving Finn is teaching him that lesson (“that’s how we’re gonna win…”).

I guess I’m not even sure what you’re trying to say.

The discussion was whether Finn could and should have destroyed the weapon. Then you backed into an argument on Poe’s arc. I said that I didn’t see any contradiction with what others were saying on the topic of Finn’s attempted sacrifice.

I said that your previous insistence that Finn was destined to fail was negated. Because Poe completed his arc no matter what Finn did.

Now you add another layer, seeming to suggest that there is a thematic parallel, and not that the two scenes are somehow dependent on each other, which is what I thought you were saying. Which is a pretty good argument; but you backed into it.

And I think my suggestions offer good alternative themes and lessons.

Back to the original discussion, Finn could totally have destroyed the battering ram, giving the rebels a chance to escape.

My take on that scene was that Finn was going to die before destroying the weapon…his speeder was falling apart rapidly and the beam was already brightening…signifying it was already too late.

I think Rian was showing us that Finn was ready to die for the cause…he had become “rebel scum” instead of just “scum”.

As a fictional movie with a nonsense weapon like the Starkiller, Finn could have lived or died. I read the scene that Finn was more brave and selfless than stupid, so I lean toward the possibility of living. In the end, it’s an academic obsessive fan debate anyway.

Fair enough…but obsessive (a wee bit) appears to be what this site is all about…amiright? 😉

The blue elephant in the room.

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I wonder if the issues with Yoda have to do with the state of puppetry today. Its becoming a lost art.

It seems like people are really embracing the new characters. In fact, the big question people ask me now about Star Wars is, “Are Finn and Poe gay lovers?” And really how the f*ck would I know? My second husband left me for a man, so my gaydar isn’t exactly what you’d call Death Star level quality. ----Carrie Fisher

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Just to touch on a couple of the issues concerning this movie - everyone’s got their own particular ‘funny bone’ as far as the ‘jokey’ nature of TLJ went, but the big audiences I saw it with (3 times) seemed to have a good time with most of the humorous moments included. I can certainly imagine that their reaction would have raised the roof if the scene of the ‘porg being lightsaber skewered’ had been included too - and I’d have laughed like a drain at that one also.

But for my own idealised version, I’d still want to cut down on some of the levity throughout, for a slightly more sombre tone overall. Each to their own on that aspect though.

As far as the ‘Yoda’ appearance went, I thought he was especially ‘gumsy’-looking and back to acting like the ‘slightly-crazed, child-like version’ that Luke initially encountered on Dagobah…and I initially thought that I’d definately want to get rid of that scene altogether.

But on my further 2 viewings, I realised that I could cut things down a little, so that I could retain certain shots of Yoda that I liked, without losing the relevant dialogue I wanted to keep…even though I’m not sure I’m 100% onboard with seeing his ‘Force-ghost’ being able to bring down heavenly fire and fury into the actual ‘living world’ of Luke.

Bottom line - was I entertained by the THE LAST JEDI during my initial watch? - yes, very much so.

Did all the characters have the kind of storylines I wanted or expected? - Not by a long shot in certain cases.

Am I looking forward to what SOLO and the rest will bring in future? - You betcha! 😃

 

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I went today for my fifth viewing, and my feelings haven’te really changed since my fourth a couple weeks ago. It sags in some places and bloats in others, but when it works it’s some of the most moving material in the entire franchise, and it usually works. Not as elegantly executed as TFA, but a lot more ambitious. It’s solidly in the 4 spot between TFA and ROTJ in my ranking.

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If, as has been suggested, Poe believed that the attempted attack on the gun was going to fail and he called off the attack for that reason, that looks less like a character arc for Poe than a practical decision, just as he made in successfully attacking the Dreadnought.

If Poe had not destroyed the dreadnought, would its guns have been successfully used to destroy the rebel ships during the later pursuit, or alternatively the Crait base?

The blue elephant in the room.

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Saw TLJ again tonight. I felt compelled to watch it again because my mother-in-law, who only likes Star Wars just okay, and really isn’t into watching movies in general much, had already seen it twice and I myself only once. So I felt my “Star Wars nerd cred” was being threatened to some degree if I hadn’t seen it in theatres again.

It was still fantastic. In fact, I liked Holdo better now than I had previously. And knowing in advance about the twists in the plot didn’t lessen my appreciation for the film or those scenes.

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Harmy said:
It’s like it’s quite possible that Picasso would have loved to use Photoshop for some of his paintings if it was available back then, but if you take a picture from Picasso and recreate it in Photoshop, it’s not going to be the same picture and it can hardly be used to demonstrate Picasso’s brush techniques.

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TV’s Frink said:

Third watch today. Wife insisted. I had a ridiculous lunch of Chicken strips, fries, and a grasshopper milkshake. Felt like a kid again for a few hours.

Still really, really good. 3rd best or 4th best SW movie. Yeah there’s little issues here and there but it’s a movie, to paraphrase Joel, and we all should really just relax.

8.72ish/10

Wtf I agree with Frink

No offense, kid, but I don’t think you know how to boil water.

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Mrebo said:

If, as has been suggested, Poe believed that the attempted attack on the gun was going to fail and he called off the attack for that reason, that looks less like a character arc for Poe than a practical decision, just as he made in successfully attacking the Dreadnought.

If Poe had not destroyed the dreadnought, would its guns have been successfully used to destroy the rebel ships during the later pursuit, or alternatively the Crait base?

Save who you love don’t fight what you hate.

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oojason said:

Collipso said:

It really seemed like Finn was more than able to destroy the cannon to me. He was still going relatively fast in the cannon’s direction, while all the others turned back, which it in itself is a plot hole (how did Rose even get to him?) and something I noticed upon first viewing.

Uh this cannon! Reminds me of this:

Not a very good idea for Star Wars.

“LUKE… I’M SEEING HIM.
HE’S COMMANDING THE IMPERIAL FORCES… LIKE OUR FATHER!
I FEAR WE LOST HIM, HAN… I FEAR WE LOST EVERYTHING.”

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TV’s Frink said:

Was watching for this on my third viewing Friday, and the close up shots look great. The medium shots look much worse, which is weird. It almost looks like it’s a puppet in the former scenes and CGI in the latter scenes.

I think a lot of it has to do with the lighting on the puppet (and his darker green skin tone).

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Collipso said:

Mrebo said:

If, as has been suggested, Poe believed that the attempted attack on the gun was going to fail and he called off the attack for that reason, that looks less like a character arc for Poe than a practical decision, just as he made in successfully attacking the Dreadnought.

If Poe had not destroyed the dreadnought, would its guns have been successfully used to destroy the rebel ships during the later pursuit, or alternatively the Crait base?

Save who you love don’t fight what you hate.

So stop fighting?

The blue elephant in the room.

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