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The Force Awakens: Official Review Thread - ** SPOILERS ** — Page 3

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hydrospanner said:
Not sure how I felt about the force having a lightsaber calling out to a specific individual, that is something we haven’t really seen before and I found it a bit distracting. It wasn’t that big of a deal when Luke lost it… he just built a new one and moved on. It seems that the saber’s importance and the entire story of how Maz came into possession of it will end up being a mystery we will never get an answer too. Although the movie does end with Rey presenting it to Luke so possibly some of those questions will be answered in the next film.

Well, at least we’re back to a more magical sense of what the Force is, rather than the pseudo-science of the PT. However, I don’t think the saber itself holds any power, but it’s an item that has been in contact with Luke, thereby having a connection to him. It’s kind of like the Dagobah-cave.sequence in ESB, it’s not really explained, but it does have that mysterious, magical feeling to it. So I personally really liked it (it was a bit modern in terms of execution and not quite as effective as the ESB scene in my opinion, but I really liked the concept.) Abrams is after all a fan who remembers SW from back in the 70’s so in his mind the Force might still have a strong connection to artifacts, which was fairly common in the early EU.

What I’m more curious about however, is how the hell the lightsaber ended up in Kanata’s possession in the first place. They kind of just brushed past it. Hopefully this will be explained later, or at least in some tie-in material.

Star Wars is Surrealism, not Science Fiction (essay)
Original Trilogy Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Beyond the OT Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Amazon link to my novel; Dawn of the Karabu.

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I wonder if that was one of the original props used in the OT?

Did anyone else notice Finn finding and tossing a training remote, (probably the same one Luke trained with) when he was rummaging through stuff aboard the Falcon?

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SilverWook said:

I wonder if that was one of the original props used in the OT?

Did anyone else notice Finn finding and tossing a training remote, (probably the same one Luke trained with) when he was rummaging through stuff aboard the Falcon?

I did, and I also thought it looked kind of weird, like toy or something.
It’s very Abramsy thing to do, kind of like the Tribble in the background of Star Trek 2009. Had the film been worse than it was then that moment would have really bugged me. It’s the kind of pointless nerdy reference that adds nothing to the plot other than nostalgia. Luckily those moments were acceptable in TFA (in my opinion) because there was also a proper SW story. In ST they just felt like an excuse for the fact that they had no idea how to make a proper ST story, it felt like a distraction, in TFA it felt like an Easter-egg.

I also seem to recall an interview some time back where Adam Savage claimed that the holochess (or whatever it’s actually called) that Finn activated by accident was actual stop-motion done by Phil Tippet.

EDIT: Here’s the interview; https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PLCRHG7EIFlDqNKhYbtg5Pwt3E0G_kOpf4&v=tDSwqVZyNsc

Star Wars is Surrealism, not Science Fiction (essay)
Original Trilogy Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Beyond the OT Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Amazon link to my novel; Dawn of the Karabu.

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There were Tribbles in Star Trek III you know. 😉

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SilverWook said:

There were Tribbles in Star Trek III you know. 😉

Yeah, but ST III had an actual ST-plot. Similarly to how TFA had an actual SW-plot, hence little Easter-eggs are acceptable. ST 2009 was all Easter-eggs, cameos, references, throwbacks, rehashes, and name dropping. There was so much of it that it took over the plot, which wasn’t really an ST-story to begin with. I don’t mind Easter-eggs, but I need more than Easter-eggs to be convinced that I’m watching a new installment in a franchise.

Star Wars is Surrealism, not Science Fiction (essay)
Original Trilogy Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Beyond the OT Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Amazon link to my novel; Dawn of the Karabu.

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Mavimao said:

I think the main reason is that the real story is about Rey and her mysterious origins. The starkiller base, when you think about it, is actually very insignificant to the plot it’s easily forgettable. It’s a MacGuffin in the truest sense of the word.

Well the main story in the original is about Luke and his origins. If you take the Starkiller base out of VII and Death Star out of IV then they’re still the same story. A lowly young adult on a desert planet stumbles across a droid carrying important information, Stormtroopers are sent to the desert planet to retrieve the droid, and so they go off on a grand space adventure leaving on the “what a piece of Junk” Falcon. Darth Vader/Kylo Ren interrogates people and kills them afterward, etc, it’s a straight remake with a few throwbacks to the sequels thrown in.

It doesn’t take the Star Wars story anywhere, by the end of the film everything we just saw was just action with no advancement in the story. It’s a bit like Matrix Reloaded compared to The Matrix in regards to the focus on action. And by taking Rey to Luke at the end of the movie the only difference between IV and VII is that VII ends at the beginning of the second act of V instead of at the end of the third act of IV.

Smoking Lizard said:

It seems pretty clear that the plot on paper is just a blatant carbon copy of the original movie. Sure, there are some tangential differences, but the essential elements of the movie are identical to the first film.

So knowing this, how can anyone still say this is a good movie?

Yes it is. I guess it’s intended to serve as a series “reboot”, but just like Jurassic World for example there’s no originality to it at all, it’s just a straight remake, made into a marvel-style non-stop action movie. It’s good in its own way, but a wholly unnecessary sequel really. I wouldn’t really say it’s a good “Star Wars” movie though, as a standalone film it’s fine, but slotting into the SW narrative it’s pretty mediocre really.

[ Scanning stuff since 2015 ]

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It’s better than the prequels by a mile. It’s not self contained like SW was, and we don’t know how anything that’s been set up is going to play out. It’s the first act of a three act play. And it had the massive task of reintroducing us to the Galaxy three decades after the Battle Of Endor.

It will be a lot easier to judge it once the next movie comes along.

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Where were you in '77?

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This is my only two cents on it.
For any SW enthusiast, this was a film where the creators already knew how to make it “visually” appealing with enough Eye Candy and Hype scenes; but for every other logic sensible person watching it, there was really just nothing special about the story (I have own my two cents on that but that’s a whole other thread).

In a similar manner to the PT, just give it a couple of months/years after the hype dies down to where people’ll start seeing it for what it “really” is to where the faneditors have to step in to fix it.

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I’m going again tomorrow with my mom and aunt, who she took to the original in '77, and two of my cousins, who came along with my family when I went in '97. I don’t usually get sentimental about this kind of thing, but this is pretty cool. There’s a bunch of stuff I want to look for, but really I’m hoping I can turn off the analytical part of my brain and just enjoy the ride now that I know it’s good.

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kt7000 said:

This is my only two cents on it.
For any SW enthusiast, this was a film where the creators already knew how to make it “visually” appealing with enough Eye Candy and Hype scenes; but for every other logic sensible person watching it, there was really just nothing special about the story (I have own my two cents on that but that’s a whole other thread).

In a similar manner to the PT, just give it a couple of months/years after the hype dies down to where people’ll start seeing it for what it “really” is to where the faneditors have to step in to fix it.

Some of us had issues with the prequels opening day.

And logical sensible people had similar complaints in 1977 too. 😉

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Saw it tonight. Here’s my in depth review:

Characters:

Daisy was great. Easy on the eyes, decent acting. Liked her character a lot, but I think the development of her force powers could have been paced better. That part seemed backloaded.

Finn was just ok. Thought he had good moments but he was erratic in others. Started out scared and contrite, then he was selfish, then he was altruistic, then he was daring and reckless, then he was providing comic relief. Just all over the map and felt like he was the creation of 10 different writers, which he may very well have been.

Han was terrific. He had most of the best dialogue in the film. The scenes late in the movie with Leia were a struggle though, and Chewbacca was shockingly underused to the point it was painful for him to even be included at all. They could have cut him and replaced him with some random X-wing pilot and it wouldn’t have made any difference, that’s how poorly his role was handled.

The bad guys … I thought Kylo was fine. Surprisingly liked him more than I thought I would. Captain Phasma was a joke. Snoke looked like he belonged in the Lord of the Rings, I mean he was nearly the only thing in TFA that was prequel-level bad. The First Order general was also terribly acted and whoever made that casting decision should have been fired on the spot. Some guy who looks like he’s 25 is the most senior military official in a galactic empire? Really? That dude has to be some producer’s nephew or boyfriend, can’t be any other explanation.

Pacing:

This was my biggest complaint with the film, even more than the re-hash stuff. When I got out of the theater I made the remark that it felt like I just got off a jerky wooden rollercoaster. There was just too much stuff going on in the film in too little time. Just didn’t slow down in the right spots when the film could have used a breather. Not enough poignant or reflective moments. Dialogue often seemed rushed and was sometimes hard to follow.

Score:

Terrible. Honestly can’t believe it, John Williams wtf? Can’t remember anything memorable except the original force theme and the original Leia’s theme. All of the new music was not only completely forgettable, but worse, it was often loud and intrusive.

Other complaints:

I constantly found myself hating the blocking and framing in this movie. The camerawork was terrible, and there was one scene I remember in particular where the camera was spinning around for seemingly no reason at all. Just nauseating work from Abrams. Editing was mostly terrible too.

Things I liked:

Some of the action/flight scenes like when the Falcon was being pursued on Jakku. Some of the Tie-Fighter vs. X-wing shots late in the movie. The updated hyperspace graphics were great. Pretty much any of the slower, character establishing scenes with Rey. Film should have focused more on her, in my opinion.

Breaking down the plot:

I thought the first scenes were terrible and then the movie strengthened some after that. The old man with the McGuffin seemed so poorly thought out and was poorly acted. The pat shot of Kylo turning and staring down some random stormtrooper (who happened to be Finn) was lame. Can you ever picture Vader stopping in his tracks to give a random stormtrooper 2 ****s of time? Really? Should have just cut all these dumb ****ing scenes out of the movie, they were basically pointless. Finn and Phasma **** was all pointless. Everything in the first ten minutes or whatever was terrible.

Thankfully after all that bull**** was done, we meet Rey and the story really settled down and got quite good for awhile. Honestly I think they should have just started the movie with her and made it mostly about her, she was by far the strongest character in the entire cast. Film was great for the rest of Act I on Jakku, and the escape on the Falcon at first act climax was really well done. That whole sequence was one of the highlights, if not THE highlight, of the entire film.

After that, Rey and Finn get picked up by Han and Chewie in some freighter. What are they doing on this junk freighter and what are the odds they happen to come across the Falcon soon after it takes off for the first time in years and years? This part of the plot was really poorly handled; all of the dialogue with the two smuggling groups was bad; then there were cartoonish CGI monsters. More prequel ****. **** off. About the only good thing in this part of the movie was Han Solo being Han Solo. “Move, ball” got me to laugh out loud.

Anyway, what happened next? Oh yeah, the gang goes to Maz’s place. Most of the CGI characters in this movie looked terrible (like Snoke and the junk dealer on Jakku). If any of them were well done, it was Maz but honestly I’m not even sure on that one. She was also, apparently, dumb as rocks, considering she was supposed to be some kind of sage.

So after that, Kylo comes and blows everything up and kidnaps Rey. I liked the scenes between the two of them on the ship, but found myself doubting the casting decision of Kylo. Just didn’t look very villainish when he was unmasked. Gave off the whiny prequel Anakin vibe that everyone hates. Keep the mask on dude, it’s much more intimidating.

Speaking of Kylo, did anyone else buy him being Han and Leia’s son? Just didn’t seem to work at all for me. Should have been Luke’s son, in my opinion.

Finally we get back to Rey and she starts to learn the force. Loved this part of the movie, but again I thought it was too backloaded. Needed better pacing, foreshadow her growing force sensitivity earlier in the film. Don’t give it all to us in the last 30 minutes ffs.

So yeah after that the third act consisted of parts that either sucked completely, or were on the verge of being well done and then got ed up. Everything with Rey on the ship was great. The Rebels’ plans for attack were not believable. Han flying at light speed and being able to manually stop his ship in time in a planet’s atmosphere and then pull up in just enough time to crash land and stop on the edge of a cliff? Really? Isn’t that the kind of lame bull they put in Pirates of the Caribbean or Indy 4? How the **** does a Galactic Empire’s secret weapon get infiltrated by one ****ing ship? And a crew of 3 is able to blow up a ****ing military installation with millions of bad guys on it? I mean all of this **** was ****ing dumb as hell.

The last interesting part of the main action was the lightsaber battle between Kylo and Rey. I kept wondering why in the hell is Kylo not wasting this chick with little effort? And then it happened. He told her he wanted to train her. Finally an old school added dimension to a lightsaber battle, cool as hell right? Rey fights him off, and this scene really worked for me. And then Abrams ****ed it up. As soon as Rey fights off Kylo for an instant, the fissure in the ground should have separated them immediately. It ruined the whole ****ing scene for her to suddenly start beating this dude’s ass and nearly kill him even though she’s never used a lightsaber before. Damn that was brutal.

Anyway the final shot with Rey and Luke was pretty good. I still don’t like the idea of people looking for Luke and being able to find him off some damn map. He’s Luke ****ing Skywalker, he’ll come around and find you when he’s damn well and ready. And Leia’s cameo felt forced and unnecessary. And nobody says “The Alliance” or “Rebels” the entire film. They get called the “Resistance” every time, and that’s a nitty thing that probably only tilted me.

Final Thoughts:

Plot was poorly thought out and not focused enough on Rey. Should have made Kylo be Luke’s son. I don’t know, probably a lot of other **** most of you don’t care about.

I’d give TFA a 6/10 rating. Probably would rate the series as follows:

The Empire Strikes Back: 10/10
Star Wars: 8 or 9 / 10
Return of the Jedi: 8 or 9 / 10
****ty prequel #1: 2 or 3/ 10
****ty prequel #2: 1 / 10
****ty prequel #3: 1 / 10

The Force Awakens: 6 / 10

Just OK. Better than the prequels, not as good as the originals. Probably good enough to make most people happy as long as you don’t expect a masterpiece.

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Sorry if the language in my post was a little hard. I wrote that up elsewhere and did a copy/paste and figured the censors would automatically get everything. Feel free to let me know if it was too offensive for this board, didn’t mean for it to be.

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I don’t get why so many people are being so hard on Carrie Fisher. Her performance wasn’t anything special, but it didn’t stick out to me as being particularly bad either. The biggest problem I had with Leia was some clunky dialog, which is much more JJ’s and Larry’s problem than it is Carrie’s (unless she did punch ups for this).

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joefavs said:

I don’t get why so many people are being so hard on Carrie Fisher. Her performance wasn’t anything special, but it didn’t stick out to me as being particularly bad either. The biggest problem I had with Leia was some clunky dialog, which is much more JJ’s and Larry’s problem than it is Carrie’s (unless she did punch ups for this).

Yeah I agree with you. I didn’t have any problem with Carrie. But I think the writing and directing didn’t do her any favors. Felt like she was just shoehorned into the movie and not given anything to work with, to be honest.

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kt7000 said:

In a similar manner to the PT, just give it a couple of months/years after the hype dies down to where people’ll start seeing it for what it “really” is to where the faneditors have to step in to fix it.

I disagree with this to a point. The desire for an edit of this is probably pretty strong right off the bat for many of us. The difference between this and the PT is that there is A LOT of stuff that can be kept, and a light trimming with a few music changes and a tacked on Fox Fanfare could do wonders, as opposed to complete story reworking required in the PT. This film is a rehash definitely, but it’s a rehash of a movie (and more vaguely the whole trilogy) that most of us love with a plot that we can generally accept.

Preferred Saga:
1/2: Hal9000
3: L8wrtr
4/5: Adywan
6-9: Hal9000

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joefavs said:

I don’t get why so many people are being so hard on Carrie Fisher. Her performance wasn’t anything special, but it didn’t stick out to me as being particularly bad either. The biggest problem I had with Leia was some clunky dialog, which is much more JJ’s and Larry’s problem than it is Carrie’s (unless she did punch ups for this).

They made her character seem too gruff to me. I guess they were going for sort of an old battle hardened General feel… but it just came across as being kind of bland.

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hydrospanner said:

joefavs said:

I don’t get why so many people are being so hard on Carrie Fisher. Her performance wasn’t anything special, but it didn’t stick out to me as being particularly bad either. The biggest problem I had with Leia was some clunky dialog, which is much more JJ’s and Larry’s problem than it is Carrie’s (unless she did punch ups for this).

They made her character seem too gruff to me. I guess they were going for sort of an old battle hardened General feel… but it just came across as being kind of bland.

She had a character at all in TFA?

Seemed like she was told to just stand there and hug and smile at people. Honestly pointless appearance in the film.

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Alderaan said:

hydrospanner said:

joefavs said:

I don’t get why so many people are being so hard on Carrie Fisher. Her performance wasn’t anything special, but it didn’t stick out to me as being particularly bad either. The biggest problem I had with Leia was some clunky dialog, which is much more JJ’s and Larry’s problem than it is Carrie’s (unless she did punch ups for this).

They made her character seem too gruff to me. I guess they were going for sort of an old battle hardened General feel… but it just came across as being kind of bland.

She had a character at all in TFA?

Seemed like she was told to just stand there and hug and smile at people. Honestly pointless appearance in the film.

When Disney chose not to use Lucas’s original story treatments for VII-IX,
Did it make the film weaker or better?

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I don’t know, I never read Lucas’s original treatments. For as much criticism as I give post '97 Lucas, and he deserves it, I will say that it felt like TFA didn’t have a clear vision. Looked like a movie that was made by 10 different people all with their own ideas, then mashed together under the guise of an homage to the originals.

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That’s the same way I felt it.
There was nothing special about the story, just a lot of visual eye candy to please the fans.

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kt7000 said:

That’s the same way I felt it.
There was nothing special about the story, just a lot of visual eye candy to please the fans.

I’m thankful at least that it didn’t desecrate the originals. Probably nothing could be as bad as Yoda spinning around like a flying monkey, or some celibate monk talking about Midichlorians. If Disney wants to make money off popcorn flicks that everyone will forget about in 10 years, that’s fine with me. Just don’t pull a Lucas and take a dump all over the heart of the original story.

My biggest fear was they would turn Luke into a bad guy. As long as **** like that doesn’t happen, I will probably survive.

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Saw this for the first time in IMAX 3D, damn this was a lot to take in. The advertisements just wouldn’t stop, so many cringey cineplex tech/toy advertisements and 3D movie trailers that I’ve already watched twenty times. Everything that was in 3D before the movie started really popped out and screamed “FUCK YOU I’M IN 3D” to the audience. Anyway the Lucasfilm logo finally showed up and the audience cheered and then quieted down quickly… The Star Wars logo appeared on screen and the excitement took me over, for the first time I paid extremely close attention to every single word on the title crawl. The movie was too hard to process, I’m going to have to go see it in a regular theatre just to wrap my head around the entire thing.

The movie was so much different than I expected it to be, the first act is pretty much exactly what I thought the entire would look and feel like but boy I was wrong. This is NOT a bad thing by the way, it’s just that I hadn’t anticipated the unique look and feel of the second half of the movie. The first order environment was very similar to that of the empire from the comic book “The Star Wars”. The CGI was very interesting and I found myself very pleased with the new effects.

Most of the information about the movie has been talked about several times on this thread so I’m just going to say this:
-Kylo Ren was a great character with a great lightsaber
-The use of the force in this movie was awesome (especially the way Kylo Ren uses it)
-Supreme leader Snoke looked a bit too fake, hopefully he’ll look better in person
-lightsabers calling to people is an interesting concept, but it is kinda odd
-Han Solo dying was really sad, but I think it was the right decision to make for the franchise
-I didn’t mind that it just mirrors ANH and ESB but the new death star was too much
-I really anticipated seeing Luke, screw you JJ

Overall TFA was pretty damn awesome, recommended for sure!

Prequel Fan-Edit thread: http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Yet-another-series-of-prequel-edits/id/17329

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Did someone just diss the acting ability of Max Von Sydow? 😉

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Yeah I thought he was terrible and I hated all of those scenes. The first part of the film I started liking was when we meet Rey.

Arguably worse though was the First Order general. That was by far the worst acted part in the whole movie. What an awful casting decision.