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The 1997 Star Wars Special Edition Trilogy Preservation Standards Thread [Work In Progress]

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Okay,

Here is the thread for discussing this topic.  Preserving the S.E. is just as important as preserving the OT when it comes to it's historical place in the universe far, far away.

Please do not post in the DTS threads anymore as those are for the theatrical audio aspects of the S.E.

Cheers and let's have some fun....and get something done.

:)

Project Sources List

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Formats:

NTSC/PAL

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Video Options Available for use:

French Coffret Set [Lee Thoroughgood set]

U.S. Black Box LD Set

Japan 1st and or 2nd LD Box Set

TB

G'Kar

Flunk

Reivax

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Audio Options Available for use:

DTS Theatrical CD's for ANH [1350], TESB [1427], & ROTJ [1451] [These are being worked on]

5.1 AC3 U.S. S.E. Laserdisc Audio [Courtesy of Generous Forum Members]

Dolby Stereo 2.0

 

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Frame Count for Each Movie (in progress)(thanks to msycamore, Darth Mallwalker, CapableMetal, & You_Too)

 

ANH (originally posted by Darth Mallwalker):

0 = first frame

711 = STAR WARS title card appear

28343 = reel 2

59025 = reel 3

90295 = reel 4

117270 = reel 5

147672 = reel 6

 

ESB (originally posted by msycamore):

 

0 = first frame

711 = STAR WARS title card appear

30988 = reel 2

59815 = reel 3

91134 = reel 4

122461 = reel 5

151133 = reel 6

 

ROTJ (originally posted by msycamore):

0 = first frame

712 = STAR WARS title card appear

25055 = reel 2

54317 = reel 3

84511 = reel 4

112587 = reel 5

142918 = reel 6

172032 = reel 7

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Links to related threads:

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Star-Wars-1997-DTS-CD-ROMs/topic/14241/

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/LeeThorogoods-PAL-LaserDisc-Preservation-Project-97-SE-Finished-95-THX-Finished-97-SE-Uploaded-95-THX-Uploaded-to-the-newsgroup/topic/11824/

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/1997-Special-Edition-Preservations/topic/14033/

http://forum.digital-digest.com/f4/creating-dts-5-1-surround-sound-stereo-source-30148.html

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Original-35mm-Theatrical-Versions-of-SE-Trilogy-and-Prequel-Trilogy-1997-2005/topic/14654/

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Are-the-1997-Special-Edition-releases-preserved/topic/13262/

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These are unedited times for the reels on the DTS Cinema Discs for the 1997 Special Edition.

ANH (DTS Cinema)

R1T5 - 19:52
R2T5 - 21:29
R3T5 - 21:52
R4T5 - 16:55
R5T5 - 21:17
R6T5 - 22:14

TESB (DTS Cinema)

R1T5 - 21:41
R2T5 - 20:14
R3T5 - 21:58
R4T5 - 21:57
R5T5 - 20:07
R6T5 - 22:17

ROTJ (DTS Cinema)

R1T5 - 17:33
R2T5 - 20:30
R3T5 - 21:08
R4T5 - 19:40
R5T5 - 21:15
R6T5 - 20:22
R7T5 - 15:31



This post has been edited.

“Collective fear stimulates herd instinct, and tends to produce ferocity toward those who are not regarded as members of the herd.”
― Bertrand Russell, Unpopular Essays

“When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser.”

― Socrates

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Now we're talkin'!

As to DVB transfers, we've got Flunk, GKar, TB, and Reivax. I'm not sure what LD transfers there are out there but I'd be shocked if there were nothing but the 5-Star ones I bought off eBay ages ago.

There's Ady's 97SE AVCHD edit but that's not properly a source.

This post has been edited.

“I find your lack of faith disturbing.”

Harmy’s SW Despecialized Edition | ABCs OT Sound Salvage | ESB OST - Imperial Audiophile Edition

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LOL, so I just looked back at the other thread and it seems like you know your crap already; e.g. I'm gonna stop talking now. I had forgotten about LeeThorogood's caps, which I dled ages ago but never got around to actually watching. (Need to learn to do the PAL >> NTSC conversion for it to be tolerable to my ears.)

This post has been edited.

“I find your lack of faith disturbing.”

Harmy’s SW Despecialized Edition | ABCs OT Sound Salvage | ESB OST - Imperial Audiophile Edition

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I have a "raw" (IVTC'd mpeg2) capture of the Japan S.E. LD's, second pressing Black Box...the ones that changed the artwork for the S.E. (same artwork as the VCD's).

Each side of the LD for each movie was burnt separately to a single layer DVD.  Getting rid of the burnt in subs (as they are in the black borders) would be easy for our video masters here.  We would need the in-movie subs (Greedo & Jabba) stuff.

I have copies of the DTS CD-roms of the theatrical audio for the S.E..  At this point, the progress has been slow due to busy schedules and normal lives.

The 5.1 ac3 files for the S.E. are on my HD as well.   

(I had to edit and describe the "raw" comment I made).  (If it was raw AVI they would NOT fit so well on DVD5's.  Sorry for the confusion).

This post has been edited.

“Collective fear stimulates herd instinct, and tends to produce ferocity toward those who are not regarded as members of the herd.”
― Bertrand Russell, Unpopular Essays

“When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser.”

― Socrates

Author
Time

Jetrell Fo said:

1) I have a "raw" capture of the Japan S.E. LD's, second pressing Black Box...the ones that changed the artwork for the S.E. (same artwork as the VCD's).

Each side of the LD for each movie was burnt separately to a single layer DVD.  Getting rid of the burnt in subs (as they are in the black borders) would be easy for our video masters here.  We would need the in-movie subs (Greedo & Jabba) stuff.

2) I have copies of the DTS CD-roms of the theatrical audio for the S.E..  At this point, the progress has been slow due to busy schedules and normal lives.

3) The 5.1 ac3 files for the S.E. are on my HD as well.   

1) Oooh goody. So then work to overlay this and GKar and match the colors? Do we know if the LD colors more or less match theatrical?

2) But not technical difficulties? OK then. Awesome. 

3) Awesome squared

“I find your lack of faith disturbing.”

Harmy’s SW Despecialized Edition | ABCs OT Sound Salvage | ESB OST - Imperial Audiophile Edition

Author
Time

I believe that the color timing on the Laserdiscs was f$%k'd up as well. 

I personally think that Ady's color corrected versions of the HD Broadcast were well closer to the theater release.  That's just my opinion though.

 

This post has been edited.

“Collective fear stimulates herd instinct, and tends to produce ferocity toward those who are not regarded as members of the herd.”
― Bertrand Russell, Unpopular Essays

“When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser.”

― Socrates

Author
Time

bilditup1 said:

The absurd LD audio archive has caps of the 5.1 Dolby tracks from the US LDs as well as 'Digital Stereo'. I don't know if that's PCM or DD from just the description.

(Incidentally that is in need of reseeding at the usual place...)

That archive was a monumental undertaking and a fine project for people doing projects.  To have ALL those audio options available in one place on an HD would really make things smoother for those looking to use multiple options on a release.

It is most awesome!!!

:)

“Collective fear stimulates herd instinct, and tends to produce ferocity toward those who are not regarded as members of the herd.”
― Bertrand Russell, Unpopular Essays

“When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser.”

― Socrates

Author
Time

Jetrell Fo said:

Cheers and let's have some fun....and get something done.

Agreed and I am right behind you.........

So, what do we have so far??

msycamore with ANH and ESB sat waiting for a decent audio 

with ANH perfectly synced frame wise to the 2004 NTSC DVD

none "semi-working" on a project and a link to a stunning spreadsheet

bit-perfect Laser Disc rips of the stereo and 5.1 soundtracks

STENDEC with his hybrid DVD's

The DTS CD ROMS

Details about Laser Disc and DVB preservations

and finally, some insane rantings from some talentless nobody looking defining an SE standard

 

and no doubt loads more......

As I have said elsewhere, I am not particularly a fan of the SE but I am a fan of Star Wars films - hence my full backing to anything that this and similar threads might produce.

 

 

This post has been edited.

4 - 5 - 3 - 1 - 6 - 2

Discuss..........

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I got unopened FS SE97 tapes, but I'd rather keep 'em that way...

...might consider doing such a project while I wait for the OOT 35s to leach out (but would prolly do better to wait for decoded DTS?)

"Right now the coffees are doing their final work." (Airi, Masked Rider Den-o episode 1)

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Molly said:

I got unopened FS SE97 tapes, but I'd rather keep 'em that way...

...might consider doing such a project while I wait for the OOT 35s to leach out (but would prolly do better to wait for decoded DTS?)

Molly, keep those things sealed.  If needed, I do have an open FS set of the VHS S.E..  I am actually just finishing up recording my WS S.E. VHS tapes...the 1997 and the 2000 ones.  Just for posterity mostly. 

I'd have to go with the LD's for a project like this....if we needed video files.

“Collective fear stimulates herd instinct, and tends to produce ferocity toward those who are not regarded as members of the herd.”
― Bertrand Russell, Unpopular Essays

“When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser.”

― Socrates

Author
Time

Finally a topic I know something about! What I know:

Don't ask me from a technical standpoint why, but most people point to the digital broadcast recordings as the best sources to look towards for the 1997 set. And I trust them. To my knowledge there is the TB set, the G'Kar set, REIVAX and Flunk. However, REIVAX and Flunk only have A New Hope. This is a damper. I personally believe that the Flunk version looks far and away the best. I think this is because it was released as a dual-layer DVD. REIVAX I believe had a French audio track that was the default selection so I always had to change it. I want to say that it was second in quality.

(Sorry for the uncertainty, I am away from my desktop computer for an extended period of time so much of this is from memory).

Then there are the TB and G'Kar sets; the only digital recordings to my knowledge that have all three of the movies. As has been well-documented, the G'Kar set is in German (e.g. the crawls and subtitles and such). Given this, I have always gravitated towards the TB set. Now again, this is from memory, but I believe the consensus was that the G'Kar set picture quality was better, but the whole being in German thing was a problem.

So as is only logical, people decided to try to mix the TB and G'Kar sets for the best possible solution (this is what STENDEC has said he is trying to do). I am inclined to say that there was another attempt at this even before Max_Rebo's 'superset,' but as it stands, the only attempt I remember definitively is the aforementioned 'superset' by Max_Rebo. It's project thread is here: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Max-Rebos-97-SE-superset-preservation/topic/9031/     That project was, while it was going, my most anticipated project on these forums, but sadly it looks like it has died. There is, however, a lot of useful information in that thread if people want to poke around it. 

The last thing I will mention is that, at least to my untrained eye, the TB set's Return of the Jedi looks awful. I could be completely wrong; I am in no way a picture quality expert, but it just looks incredibly blurry to me. I have no idea why this would be. I don't think I was ever able to get a copy of the G'Kar Return of the Jedi for comparison, but the TB Return of the Jedi definitely left me disappointed. Oddly, I do not think I have heard many people mention this, so it could just be me. Also, the TB sets have a white '+' sign and a blue rectangle in the upper right-hand corners of the widescreen bars. That's neither here nor there, but just something to note. 

When it's all said and done, while it may seem blasphemous around these parts, I am very much invested in someone making a nice 1997 set. (As I've said before, I tried myself and failed miserably). Those are the versions I first saw, and the ones I grew up with. Despite everyone's griping, did the fact that I saw the Special Editions instead of the originals turn me away from Star Wars? Not a chance! Star Wars is Star Wars, and awesome in any iteration to me. 

If nothing where to ever happen on a 1997 preservation front, this would be my lineup: Flunk ANH, TB ESB, and TB RoJ. I could definitely live with those, but I know better quality is possible. And to be honest, the Flunk ANH looks pretty damn good anyways, so I am more concerned about ESB and RoJ, especially RoJ. 

This post has been edited.

May the Force be with you.

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I think we should narrow down the LD list if we consider using a transfer from them for the picture. 

The French Coffret set that Lee Thoroughgood used were pretty nice.  I'd love to see a raw AVI capture of those.

“Collective fear stimulates herd instinct, and tends to produce ferocity toward those who are not regarded as members of the herd.”
― Bertrand Russell, Unpopular Essays

“When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser.”

― Socrates

Author
Time

obviously somewhere down the line

the 35mm prints need to be tracked down..

 

they shouldn't be that expensive, and

they'll be in pretty good shape.

 

however, that's a whole different can

of worms, right? hmmmmmmm..........

 

 

later

-1

[no GOUT in CED?-> GOUT CED]

Author
Time

negative1 said:

obviously somewhere down the line

the 35mm prints need to be tracked down..

 

they shouldn't be that expensive, and

they'll be in pretty good shape.

 

however, that's a whole different can

of worms, right? hmmmmmmm..........

 

 

later

-1

This WOULD be the most optimal solution and one I'd love to see come to fruition.  I'd actually be pleased if we could get at least 1 35mm copy of the PT as well....for posterity and historical reference.  I put out some feelers on the 35MM forum in hopes of gaining some info about the SE 35mm.

Wouldn't it be cool if we had our own film vault here?  :)  :)

This post has been edited.

“Collective fear stimulates herd instinct, and tends to produce ferocity toward those who are not regarded as members of the herd.”
― Bertrand Russell, Unpopular Essays

“When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser.”

― Socrates

Author
Time

Jetrell Fo said:

negative1 said:

obviously somewhere down the line

the 35mm prints need to be tracked down..

 

they shouldn't be that expensive, and

they'll be in pretty good shape.

 

however, that's a whole different can

of worms, right? hmmmmmmm..........

 

 

later

-1

This WOULD be the most optimal solution and one I'd love to see come to fruition.  I'd actually be pleased if we could get at least 1 35mm copy of the PT as well....for posterity and historical reference.  I put out some feelers on the 35MM forum in hopes of gaining some info about the SE 35mm.

Wouldn't it be cool if we had our own film vault here?  :)  :)

yeah,

getting the PT on 35mm is also something

i wouldn't mind seeing/getting... who knows?????

again, they are pretty cheap to get also.. and

in good condition.

 

later

-1

[no GOUT in CED?-> GOUT CED]

Author
Time

negative1 said:

Jetrell Fo said:

negative1 said:

obviously somewhere down the line

the 35mm prints need to be tracked down..

 

they shouldn't be that expensive, and

they'll be in pretty good shape.

 

however, that's a whole different can

of worms, right? hmmmmmmm..........

 

 

later

-1

This WOULD be the most optimal solution and one I'd love to see come to fruition.  I'd actually be pleased if we could get at least 1 35mm copy of the PT as well....for posterity and historical reference.  I put out some feelers on the 35MM forum in hopes of gaining some info about the SE 35mm.

Wouldn't it be cool if we had our own film vault here?  :)  :)

yeah,

getting the PT on 35mm is also something

i wouldn't mind seeing/getting... who knows?????

again, they are pretty cheap to get also.. and

in good condition.

 

later

-1

If we could somehow obtain stuff like this the DTS discs would sync properly and we'd have at least pre-DVD versions of these movies without any changes before moving to the consumer market.  

This was posted over @ the 35mm forum:

Star Wars: Episode I - The Phantom Menace 1999 $450. SOLD
Star Wars: Episode II - Attack of the Clones 2002 $550. SOLD
Star Wars: Episode III - Revenge of the Sith 2005 $600. Still Avail.

Whether these prices are normal or not, I would not know.  All I have in the way of film is a 35mm Scope Trailer for TPM.  I have a 35mm set for the SE Trilogy trailer but it was cut and sold in like 5 frames per strip.  I bought the whole lot but I have no way of scanning them to post as reference.

“Collective fear stimulates herd instinct, and tends to produce ferocity toward those who are not regarded as members of the herd.”
― Bertrand Russell, Unpopular Essays

“When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser.”

― Socrates

Author
Time

Jetrell Fo said:

 

If we could somehow obtain stuff like this the DTS discs would sync properly and we'd have at least pre-DVD versions of these movies without any changes before moving to the consumer market.  

This was posted over @ the 35mm forum:

Star Wars: Episode I - The Phantom Menace 1999 $450. SOLD
Star Wars: Episode II - Attack of the Clones 2002 $550. SOLD
Star Wars: Episode III - Revenge of the Sith 2005 $600. Still Avail.

Whether these prices are normal or not, I would not know.  All I have in the way of film is a 35mm Scope Trailer for TPM.  I have a 35mm set for the SE Trilogy trailer but it was cut and sold in like 5 frames per strip.  I bought the whole lot but I have no way of scanning them to post as reference.

yup,

those are those prices i've been seeing too..

not a whole lot.. definitely worth getting..

 

probably should start another thread for these,

and not talk about them in the SE topic..

 

later

-1

This post has been edited.

[no GOUT in CED?-> GOUT CED]

Author
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I believe Dark Jedi was working on the SEs at some point.

He may have even released an initial run of all 3, but it was just to a selected few people (I don't have them), and for some reason they were never released widely.

You know of the rebellion against the Empire?

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If I recall correctly, they were given as a bonus to certain people by DJ to those who helped out/provided blank D/L discs for one of his projects. I have not seen them either...

I cannot even remember the source - LD or DVB??

4 - 5 - 3 - 1 - 6 - 2

Discuss..........

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The only sound way to deal with the Laserdisc as a source is to do complete lossless video transfers and go from there.  The issue then becomes the size of the files.  At that point we'd probably need a HD dedicated for the storage so whomever would do the editing and conversion could do it straight from that HD.

Of course, there would HAVE to be a back up of the files....just in case.

Weren't the original capture files for the HD broadcast fairly large too? 

“Collective fear stimulates herd instinct, and tends to produce ferocity toward those who are not regarded as members of the herd.”
― Bertrand Russell, Unpopular Essays

“When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser.”

― Socrates

Author
Time

Planned to upload my source file and m2v file to usenet today, but it will unfortunately have to wait, had a power loss when I was about to prepare the files over night. I've since seen there has been one thread started for this purpose, and I wondered, is my work actually needed now? I can still upload it of course if there is desire for it, I just want to know if it's really worth my effort?

This post has been edited.

We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions. 

Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com

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msycamore said:

Planned to upload my source file and m2v file to usenet today, but it will unfortunately have to wait, had a power loss when I was about to prepare the files over night. I've since seen there has been one thread started for this purpose, and I wondered, is my work actually needed now? I can still upload it of course if there is desire for it, I just want to know if it's really worth my effort?

I didn't know that thread was coming.  I can't speak for anyone else but I KNOW I don't have the disposable income to start purchasing 35mm films, even at the prices I've seen.  That is why I thought this thread would be a good start.  Work from what we have so far so we can learn and adapt while planning for better sources.

It's about learning, not competing.  At some point these 2 ideas will converge.  I've posted links related to this topic as I've had a small part in helping to get the DTS audio out there.  Borisanddoris and Eldonante are the progenitors of this journey, they deserve the bulk of the credit.  Silverwook and none have helped to distribute audio needed so that everyone can have it, they deserve credit too.

I am interested in your work.  At this point myspleen will be the easiest access for me.  The decision is yours.  I thank you for even wanting to contribute what you have....every little bit helps.....for ALL of us.

:)

 

“Collective fear stimulates herd instinct, and tends to produce ferocity toward those who are not regarded as members of the herd.”
― Bertrand Russell, Unpopular Essays

“When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser.”

― Socrates

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