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Terminator films

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I just saw Terminator: Genisys and I had to start a thread about the whole franchise.

SPOILERS

The movie sucked! I couldn't believe what I was seeing, it was way worse than 3 or 4. So basically none of the other movies happened at all, not even the first two which to me are the best action movies ever with Die Hard. They ruined John Connor. The new Terminator model sucked and didn't even make sense. Kyle Reese became a whiny bitch who's in a way all the time and Sarah Connor was just annoying (although hot). The pair just argued and yelled at each other through the whole movie and it concludes to a kiss. What? Ugh. It was good to see Arnold back but his performance was on par with T3, throwing some one liners and to lighten the mood. Salvation feels like a masterpiece after this as this one just pisses on all other Terminator films and their characters. Oh, and what's up with Salvation and Genisys when they have to have Skynet in some weird digital form to explain what's going on in the end? First time it was cringe-worthy, the second time even more so.

Man, with all the sequels this year this was the biggest disappointment. I don't think I want to see this film ever again. And there's a trilogy coming from this...

This post has been edited.

And in the time of greatest despair, there shall come a savior, and he shall be known as the Son of the Suns.

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I've just seen a trailer and was disgusted. It seemed like a very bad parody of the Terminator franchise and not as a sequel.

One and two are brilliant movies, three is crap and four is crap, but "watchable". I don't plan to see Genisys at all.

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darn, I was hoping with Arnie back, that would improve things.  I guess not.

Rest In Peace Dad, I love you. I know I will see you again someday.


From Job 1:21 the Lord gave, and the Lord hath taken away;
blessed be the name of the Lord.

It has been a year. I miss you so much Dad. I love you.

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Speaking of Terminator, they released a new BD quadrilogy set this summer, does anyone know if there are any new transfers or are they same as before?

And in the time of greatest despair, there shall come a savior, and he shall be known as the Son of the Suns.

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^ Let me consult my crystal ball...

...yep they are gonna be the same transfers, with the same extras.

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Ryan McAvoy said:

^ Let me consult my crystal ball...

...yep they are gonna be the same transfers, with the same extras.

 Yeah sorry, didn't necessarily mean transfer but if they would've fixed the colors in the first one or the DNR in the second one but I know it would be dreaming more than anything else.

This post has been edited.

And in the time of greatest despair, there shall come a savior, and he shall be known as the Son of the Suns.

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I didn't read your spoilers, but it's a shame you didn't like it.

I hated the trailers for the simple reason they spoiled what could have been a great twist with John Connor.

Also thought Reese was horribly cast. Looks like he just came out of Planet Fitness asking people, "Do you even lift, bro?" Reese was supposed to appear disheveled and looking like he hasn't eaten in a month. Jai should have played a Terminator. Bad casting. Who could have been a better Reese?

Anyway, I'll still go see it because I stupidly hold hope that I'll like it.

 

 

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LexX said:

I just saw Terminator: Genisys

 LexX, just how were you able to see it so early?

Rest In Peace Dad, I love you. I know I will see you again someday.


From Job 1:21 the Lord gave, and the Lord hath taken away;
blessed be the name of the Lord.

It has been a year. I miss you so much Dad. I love you.

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Warbler said:

LexX said:

I just saw Terminator: Genisys

 LexX, just how were you able to see it so early?

You do know that sometimes movies get released in foreign countries before their US release? Remember, the USA is not the center of the universe.

Terminator 5 was released in the following countries on June 25th: Columbia, Denmark, Greece, Peru, Singapore, Finland, Norway, Sweden and Turkey.

Don’t do drugs, unless you’re with me.

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THE USA ISN'T THE CENTER OF THE UNIVERSE!?!?!   HOW DARE YOU!!!   AND HOW DARE THEY RELEASE THE MOVIE IN OTHER COUNTRIES BEFORE IT IS RELEASED HERE!!!!!  I'LL CONTACT THE UN ABOUT THIS!!!!

Rest In Peace Dad, I love you. I know I will see you again someday.


From Job 1:21 the Lord gave, and the Lord hath taken away;
blessed be the name of the Lord.

It has been a year. I miss you so much Dad. I love you.

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I saw it last night and, at first, I thought there could be some potential to be the 3rd best in the series... Alas, after they travel forward in time to 2017, it became more than clear that this is just another waste of plastic in the 7-11 $1.99 DVD bargain bin basket with the other "sequels". 

The concept could have worked, but for some reason they needed to travel to the future to stop yet another version of Skynet with another stupid upgraded Terminator instead of staying grounded in 1984 and doing something much more interesting. I can't wait to see the cinema sins take on this film because, while time travel has always caused paradoxal plot holes, the ones here are insanely huge to be ignored (like, how would middle aged John Connor exist in 2029 if his parents time traveled to 2017 with no plan of going back to 1984 and procreating, Why would Kyle Reese need to go find himself as a child to say that Genisys is Skynet when Genisys doesn't exist anymore. If Genisys/Skynet is busted - but I'm sure it'll come back in SOME form in later sequels - how is college aged Kyle Reese still chosen in 2029 to go back?)

The leads had zero romantic chemistry and they looked and acted more like college students hanging out between seminars than the shell-shocked, hardened warriors of Michael Bien and Linda Hamilton in the earlier films. Not to mention the dialogue. The dialogue... As a teacher of literature, I just. Can't. Stand. Modern. Film. Screenplays. Everything nowadays is just rehashes of tired cliché lines that have been done and redone and redone some more. I could swear that modern screenplays are written by computers from a very small database of one-liners and snarky comebacks. 

So there you go. So much potential wasted. Such a shame. 

What's the internal temperature of a TaunTaun? Luke warm.

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Neglify said:

Warbler said:

LexX said:

I just saw Terminator: Genisys

 LexX, just how were you able to see it so early?

You do know that sometimes movies get released in foreign countries before their US release? Remember, the USA is not the center of the universe.

Terminator 5 was released in the following countries on June 25th: Columbia, Denmark, Greece, Peru, Singapore, Finland, Norway, Sweden and Turkey.

 That is correct and actually I didn't even know it wasn't released in the US when I started the thread.

Also, I concur with all Mavimao's points. I don't know what some other people have been drinking when this has reportedly gotten some positive reviews and how Arnold and even James Cameron (okay, both were in the making of this film so they're kind of obligied to) give this thumbs up how this is the "real" third movie. I saw a Cameron interview where he says how this film respects his films and characters and how this looks similar but this time with a nice twist... I mean, did he even see the film? This film makes everything else non-existant! I don't know how this could have given less respect to the four others than completely ignore T3 an T4 and then just mess up the whole timeline before them.

And in the time of greatest despair, there shall come a savior, and he shall be known as the Son of the Suns.

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To be perfectly honest, I quite liked Terminator Genisys! It's, in my opinion, the best thing to happen to the franchise since T2.

I wholeheartedly agree with Cameron and Arnold that this is the "official" third movie in the franchise, being superior to Salvation and the utterly abysmal Terminator 3. Visually, it hearkens back to James Cameron's films. The opening war scene set near Skynet's time displacement machine is a great spectacle. It's fulfilling to witness the 2029 victory that has been talked about since the first movie. You can see why Cameron considered using it as the opening of T2. Thankfully, unlike Terminator 3, there is no hamfisted inclusion of the American flag, which entirely belittles the fact that this is the struggle of a united race to survive. Independence Day, this is not. Jason Clarke did a good job as the weary, messianic leader of the Human Resistance, much better than Christian "Batman voice" Bale or Nick "paintball gun" Stahl. I appreciated that they resisted the urge to throw in a wife. Having a partner humanizes John Connor, and, for reasons I'll expand on later, the character should not be humanized. 

Once Reese travels back in time, he finds, as I assume most of you know, the 1984 world of the first Terminator with marked differences. The editing and effects are markedly improved from the promotional material. I was worried by a lot of amateurish cuts in the TV spots, but none of those are replicated in the actual movie. Similarly, I was impressed by how the CGI young Arnold looked. Though superior to the instances in Tron Legacy and Terminator Salvation, it's not perfect, but I daresay we're only about a decade away from photorealistic replication of actors. Overall, it was exciting to watch this new Terminator flick, especially since it didn't adhere to the tried formula without adding anything new (Terminator 3, I'm looking at you.). Except for the well-known SPOILER that John Connor had been converted to a Terminator, I didn't know what was coming next most of the time, and, for fear of ruining anyone experiencing it for the first time, I think I'll stop divulging plot details here.

Alan Taylor is admittedly no James Cameron when it comes to action and suspense, but his directing worked for the most part. He, without a doubt, trumps McG, whose movie contained baffling lapses in logic (open heart surgery in a post-apocalyptic wasteland?). The rather large budget shows, making it feel more epic and like an open world, unlike the cheap looking Terminator 3. Until the end, the film continues to feel like the spiritual successor to the Terminator and T2, visually continuing with a color Cameron-like palette, staying away from dwelling in warm colors (Terminator 3) and desaturated ones (Salvation.)

I think the main reason that Terminator Genisys works much better than Terminator 3 or Salvation is that it fits the criteria for a good sequel, expanding on the themes of the last installment and growing the characters to create an emotionally satisfying follow-up. Despite being a fantastic movie taken in a vacuum and one I personally love, Alien 3 is a prime example of an unfulfilling sequel. With Hicks and Newt so unceremoniously killed off, Ripley is regressed, going from lone survivor (Alien) to mother of makeshift family unit (Aliens) to lone survivor once more. The audience at least partially rejected Alien 3 because they, on a conscious or subconscious level, felt cheated. Alien 3 makes Aliens useless, as it renders the extensive character development there inconsequential.

Amazingly, Terminator 3 does the same thing as Alien 3 but even worse and without the benefit of being a good movie on its own. In a nutshell, The Terminator was about maintaining the world's destiny. Kyle Reese ensures that John Connor is born, and the T-800 inadvertently (as shown by T2) ensuring that Skynet is also likewise born. Brilliantly, T2 alludes that the future may be altered, taking to heart- John Connor's iconic message— “no fate but what we make.” The ending is wonderfully open-ended, not stating whether or not the events did make a difference. But, then Terminator 3 completely betrays this! In stating that Judgment Day is inevitable, it not only completely disregards the hope of T2 but also John Connor's iconic message. On the other hand, Terminator Genisys expands on the idea that the future may be changed, and Judgment Day may be stopped. It leaves open the possibility that preventing Skynet from rising is possible, albeit really complicated. Yet, as the mid-credits scene shows, Judgment Day may still come. Ambiguity is essential in this franchise, as James Cameron and the makers of Genisys understand.

A running sub-theme of T2 is that man is becoming more machine-like in the name of victory. Sarah Connor, with her knowledge of the horrible future, teeters close to the edge of Terminator-esque merciless efficiency. This is particularly highlighted in the scene where she tries to kill Miles Dyson. The picture of the future John Connor is an even bleaker one; in the once scene we see him, he is emotionlessly scanning the battlefield like a Terminator. Those behind Terminator 3 thought the most interesting progression would be to turn John Connor into a hobo played by Nick Stahl, who gets bullied by Arnold for the length of a movie. They humanize him by showing that he has weaknesses and has qualms about violence, as shown with the paintball gun. Giving him a wife and “important,” assassination-worthy lieutenants undermines James Cameron's depiction of John Connor as a “Great Man” of history, who used his burdensome knowledge of the future to save the human race. John Connor is supposed to be distant and rather inhuman; having him be married and overly friendly with anyone but Kyle Reese betrays that. Like Salvation almost did beforehand, Genisys has the novel idea of making John's machine-like tendencies literal. This completes the progression of him slowly losing his humanity.

Terminator Genisys also is superior to Terminator 3 in terms of character progression. In their modifications to the timeline, the creators of Genisys ensure Sarah Connor is still a badass like we saw in T2, albeit one who has her humanity fully intact. It would be awful to have Sarah regress to being a waitress, a passive character, as she would be, had the timeline not been rebooted. They go on to explore the interesting possibility of Kyle Reese meeting this toughened Sarah Connor, which he didn't get to originally because of his death at the end of the first Terminator. The character who the Genisys filmmakers did justice most in terms of logical progression was Arnold's. Now, let me preface this by declaring that I understand Arnold is playing a different Terminator in every movie. Even so, because it's always Arnold, it's hard for an audience not to at least subconsciously think of him as a single entity. Between Terminator 2, he undergoes a radical character arc in the eyes of the audience, from unfeeling monster to benevolent compassionate surrogate father figure. It is unsatisfying in Terminator 3 to “regress” to unfeeling but benevolent, with occasional outbursts of physical violence towards John. Genisys instead continues along the natural arc set up by two, showing him turn to a more positive character— from the father figure in T2 to a literal father named “Pops,” who basically raises Sarah from the age of 9.

Sorry if this post has been long, but I really wanted to explain why I feel that Genisys doesn't deserve all the wanton bashing it gets throughout the Internet. To conclude, in no way am I saying that Terminator Genisys is better than T2 or The Terminator but it is the sequel I can put next to those classics without regret.

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I agree wholly with Aluminum, couldn't have put it better myself.

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The Aluminum Falcon said:

To be perfectly honest, I quite liked Terminator Genisys! It's, in my opinion, the best thing to happen to the franchise since T2.

I wholeheartedly agree with Cameron and Arnold that this is the "official" third movie in the franchise, being superior to Salvation and the utterly abysmal Terminator 3. Visually, it hearkens back to James Cameron's films. The opening war scene set near Skynet's time displacement machine is a great spectacle. It's fulfilling to witness the 2029 victory that has been talked about since the first movie. You can see why Cameron considered using it as the opening of T2. Thankfully, unlike Terminator 3, there is no hamfisted inclusion of the American flag, which entirely belittles the fact that this is the struggle of a united race to survive. Independence Day, this is not. Jason Clarke did a good job as the weary, messianic leader of the Human Resistance, much better than Christian "Batman voice" Bale or Nick "paintball gun" Stahl. I appreciated that they resisted the urge to throw in a wife. Having a partner humanizes John Connor, and, for reasons I'll expand on later, the character should not be humanized. 

Once Reese travels back in time, he finds, as I assume most of you know, the 1984 world of the first Terminator with marked differences. The editing and effects are markedly improved from the promotional material. I was worried by a lot of amateurish cuts in the TV spots, but none of those are replicated in the actual movie. Similarly, I was impressed by how the CGI young Arnold looked. Though superior to the instances in Tron Legacy and Terminator Salvation, it's not perfect, but I daresay we're only about a decade away from photorealistic replication of actors. Overall, it was exciting to watch this new Terminator flick, especially since it didn't adhere to the tried formula without adding anything new (Terminator 3, I'm looking at you.). Except for the well-known SPOILER that John Connor had been converted to a Terminator, I didn't know what was coming next most of the time, and, for fear of ruining anyone experiencing it for the first time, I think I'll stop divulging plot details here.

Alan Taylor is admittedly no James Cameron when it comes to action and suspense, but his directing worked for the most part. He, without a doubt, trumps McG, whose movie contained baffling lapses in logic (open heart surgery in a post-apocalyptic wasteland?). The rather large budget shows, making it feel more epic and like an open world, unlike the cheap looking Terminator 3. Until the end, the film continues to feel like the spiritual successor to the Terminator and T2, visually continuing with a color Cameron-like palette, staying away from dwelling in warm colors (Terminator 3) and desaturated ones (Salvation.)

I think the main reason that Terminator Genisys works much better than Terminator 3 or Salvation is that it fits the criteria for a good sequel, expanding on the themes of the last installment and growing the characters to create an emotionally satisfying follow-up. Despite being a fantastic movie taken in a vacuum and one I personally love, Alien 3 is a prime example of an unfulfilling sequel. With Hicks and Newt so unceremoniously killed off, Ripley is regressed, going from lone survivor (Alien) to mother of makeshift family unit (Aliens) to lone survivor once more. The audience at least partially rejected Alien 3 because they, on a conscious or subconscious level, felt cheated. Alien 3 makes Aliens useless, as it renders the extensive character development there inconsequential.

Amazingly, Terminator 3 does the same thing as Alien 3 but even worse and without the benefit of being a good movie on its own. In a nutshell, The Terminator was about maintaining the world's destiny. Kyle Reese ensures that John Connor is born, and the T-800 inadvertently (as shown by T2) ensuring that Skynet is also likewise born. Brilliantly, T2 alludes that the future may be altered, taking to heart- John Connor's iconic message— “no fate but what we make.” The ending is wonderfully open-ended, not stating whether or not the events did make a difference. But, then Terminator 3 completely betrays this! In stating that Judgment Day is inevitable, it not only completely disregards the hope of T2 but also John Connor's iconic message. On the other hand, Terminator Genisys expands on the idea that the future may be changed, and Judgment Day may be stopped. It leaves open the possibility that preventing Skynet from rising is possible, albeit really complicated. Yet, as the mid-credits scene shows, Judgment Day may still come. Ambiguity is essential in this franchise, as James Cameron and the makers of Genisys understand.

A running sub-theme of T2 is that man is becoming more machine-like in the name of victory. Sarah Connor, with her knowledge of the horrible future, teeters close to the edge of Terminator-esque merciless efficiency. This is particularly highlighted in the scene where she tries to kill Miles Dyson. The picture of the future John Connor is an even bleaker one; in the once scene we see him, he is emotionlessly scanning the battlefield like a Terminator. Those behind Terminator 3 thought the most interesting progression would be to turn John Connor into a hobo played by Nick Stahl, who gets bullied by Arnold for the length of a movie. They humanize him by showing that he has weaknesses and has qualms about violence, as shown with the paintball gun. Giving him a wife and “important,” assassination-worthy lieutenants undermines James Cameron's depiction of John Connor as a “Great Man” of history, who used his burdensome knowledge of the future to save the human race. John Connor is supposed to be distant and rather inhuman; having him be married and overly friendly with anyone but Kyle Reese betrays that. Like Salvation almost did beforehand, Genisys has the novel idea of making John's machine-like tendencies literal. This completes the progression of him slowly losing his humanity.

Terminator Genisys also is superior to Terminator 3 in terms of character progression. In their modifications to the timeline, the creators of Genisys ensure Sarah Connor is still a badass like we saw in T2, albeit one who has her humanity fully intact. It would be awful to have Sarah regress to being a waitress, a passive character, as she would be, had the timeline not been rebooted. They go on to explore the interesting possibility of Kyle Reese meeting this toughened Sarah Connor, which he didn't get to originally because of his death at the end of the first Terminator. The character who the Genisys filmmakers did justice most in terms of logical progression was Arnold's. Now, let me preface this by declaring that I understand Arnold is playing a different Terminator in every movie. Even so, because it's always Arnold, it's hard for an audience not to at least subconsciously think of him as a single entity. Between Terminator 2, he undergoes a radical character arc in the eyes of the audience, from unfeeling monster to benevolent compassionate surrogate father figure. It is unsatisfying in Terminator 3 to “regress” to unfeeling but benevolent, with occasional outbursts of physical violence towards John. Genisys instead continues along the natural arc set up by two, showing him turn to a more positive character— from the father figure in T2 to a literal father named “Pops,” who basically raises Sarah from the age of 9.

Sorry if this post has been long, but I really wanted to explain why I feel that Genisys doesn't deserve all the wanton bashing it gets throughout the Internet. To conclude, in no way am I saying that Terminator Genisys is better than T2 or The Terminator but it is the sequel I can put next to those classics without regret.

         I agree with this review, with one ENORMOUS reservation.

         Also, I might have appreciated T3 and TSal a little bit more. I went into those movies expecting that they would use T2 as a platform to launch to the next level. I wasn't overwhelmed in that regard. T3 had a cool twist at the end and TSal developed themes. Apart from colors, I thought they were solid additions to the constantly shifting universe.

        TGen is definitely shooting high. It's suggesting provocative themes in the future (should it come.) The movie itself was a platform. As such, in story structure, screenplay, FX, and faithfulness to the universe, I give it high marks. 

        I will be a contrarian and praise the acting efforts of the entire cast. I was concerned after seeing the first trailors, but I thought they were all spot-on. When fanboys trash them, I believe they are expressing their great frustration at the sense that these newbies weren't nearly enough like the originals.

       And this brings me to my ENORMOUS reservation. Going in cold with no time to consider shifting timelines, this movie flew DIRECTLY into the face of my GREATEST PET PEAVE with hollywood practices like an unstoppable force at an immovable object.

      When I become The Supreme Commissar For Screen Entertainments, it will be STRICTLY FORBIDDEN for the big-wig wizards of prepro to even consider casting characters who are supposed to be the same as originals at a different or alternate time without making every possible effort to find someone with as many of the physical qualities of appearance, bearing, presence, voice quality... as much like a fraternal twin as is possible. Much the same with characters who are supposed to be near kin such as siblings, parents or children. Failure to comply will result in lifetime forced labor washing dishes in craft service.

      There must be a way to cast a very wide net to pull in those with the greatest likeness. Casting is of CRITICAL IMPORTANCE. It rates a significant percentage of the budget. Could a library of all high school yearbooks be assembled? Could a substantial finder's fee be offered to high school drama coaches and teachers who might remember students with the most potential similarity? If you could find 100, at least 3 or 4 of them will have strong innate acting ability even if they've never performed. Whatever, they've got to start GETTING THIS RIGHT. Nothing else can blast me straight out of a movie like insufficient likeness.

      NuSC is more pixie than LH/SC, but otherwise I had no problem believing she could be a fraternal twin. It would have been helpful to make it clear that the timeline had been altered before her conception (my rationalization for character differences in ST09.) Had she been playing opposite a character even remotely like MB/KR, and a John Conner who seemed even remotely related to both of them, there might not have been a significant problem.

      T1 was a work of casting genius. Ahnohd had that alien, powerful, not a normal human quality, LH was perfect as a struggling young women discovering her inner strengths, and the detectives and psychiatrist hit their marks and beats without fail. MB probably doesn't get his due. The character he projected through his voice, leaness and gaunt wide-eyedness was just exactly what it should have been. I had no trouble accepting him as a refugee from a post-apocalyptic future. That I had no idea what he would have been had judgement day never come, a serial killer or a college professor or a taxi driver or an insurance adjuster or mechanic...gave him the mystery he needed as the tale unfolded.

      I was actually impressed by the way NuKR was able to step into that impossible position and represent. Dude is a competent actor. But for his physical qualities, beefyness, no wide-eyes, working-man demeanor, deep voice... he was just too different from MB/KR for me to accept him in the role. He came across as a bro-dude who would raise his son to be state champion full-back and then go into construction contracting. I greatly appreciate those salt-of-the-earth types of people and regard them, at the end of the day, as VASTLY more intelligent than the characters we are supposed to regard as our betters, but that's just too pegged for the KR of the apocalypse that I imagined. There seems to have been some deliberate counter-casting.

     NuJohn was also very competent with what he was given. His sharp angular features were ABSOLUTELY NOTHING like his parent's. It was as though they had cast a Tanzanian with a thick African accent. Without time to account for alternate timelines, all I could think while watching the first 80 minutes or so was WWWHHHHHHYYYYYY?!?!?!?!? WWWHHHHYYYYYYY did they do this?!?!?!?!?

     About three-quarters through I finally was able to think "It is what it is" and settle more into the story. It was quite solid and open to future developement.

    If I was a studio suit and this film, with it's tremendous problem, earned back even half it's money, I would risk my career to green-light the next installment. It definitely has places to go. 

    

This post has been edited.

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LexX said:

I just saw Terminator: Genisys and I had to start a thread about the whole franchise.

SPOILERS

The movie sucked! I couldn't believe what I was seeing, it was way worse than 3 or 4.

I thought it was a lot of fun. You didn't like it, that's fine, but there is no way that Genisys is worse than Salvation. I'm not trying to attack you here, I'm just going to break this up a bit and try address your issues point by point. these are just my take on it all..

So basically none of the other movies happened at all, not even the first two which to me are the best action movies ever with Die Hard.

You could look at it that way, but it's more like Star Trek - every time they go back, a new future is created. Terminator 3 taught us that everything they tried to prevent still happened, just in a different way. 

They ruined John Connor. The new Terminator model sucked and didn't even make sense. Kyle Reese became a whiny bitch who's in a way all the time and Sarah Connor was just annoying (although hot).

Did you see The Terminator [T1]? He was in over his head there too. remember the police station, or the crimes he committed? He wasn't really a model soldier. in T5 he was supposed to seem that way because things had happened that they had no idea about ie: pops.

oh and with John - the most we've seen of him was the Xian Bale version where he doesn't really do a lot. he sits around the base, he growls at people, he gets  zero respect from command and then he almost gets himself killed by defying orders. 

The pair just argued and yelled at each other through the whole movie and it concludes to a kiss. What? Ugh.

I think the point here was Sarah realising that she could actually make her own choices and not be a slave to the timeline. she'd been told that she had to have sex with a man she'd never met, I can see how she'd be uncomfortable with that. this is a bit different to meeting and falling in love with a guy.

It was good to see Arnold back but his performance was on par with T3, throwing some one liners and to lighten the mood.

Here's an idea for an experiment - watch terminator 2 and every time Arnold delivers a cheesy one liner, take a shot of whiskey..

Salvation feels like a masterpiece after this as this one just pisses on all other Terminator films and their characters.

Salvation was a complete waste, absolutely nothing important happened in that film. Even worse - there was no time travel, no attempt to alter events by messing with the past. To me that is what the Terminator is all about. On top of that, Skynet should have no idea who Kyle Reese is! He wont play an important role until AFTER the war is all but lost. AND Skynets records of the 80's are sketchy at best - that's why the Terminator actually had to go SEARCHING for Sarah Connor to begin with.

Oh, and what's up with Salvation and Genisys when they have to have Skynet in some weird digital form to explain what's going on in the end? First time it was cringe-worthy, the second time even more so.

I agree with this, the movie would be better without it. it's kind of like an overconfident 'Bond' villain telegraphing his plans.

Man, with all the sequels this year this was the biggest disappointment. I don't think I want to see this film ever again. And there's a trilogy coming from this...

 I feel like you are being overly critical on a movie you just plain didn't like.

Is it a great movie? not really.

Is it the worst in the franchise? not by a long shot.

Is is the only movie in the franchise to bend or break rules set forth in previous films? nope. In fact, they actually addressed an issue that even T2 was guilty of.

The plan was to send kyle back and then destroy the time machine. end of story. in T2, suddenly we have MORE terminators from the future. at least here we see that Skynet was able to regain control of the time machine right after Reese uses it.

<span style=“color: #fafafa; font-family: verdana, geneva, arial, helvetica, ‘sans serif’; line-height: 13px;”>**
Anchorhead** said:</span>

<span style=“color: #fafafa; font-family: verdana, geneva, arial, helvetica, ‘sans serif’; line-height: 13px;”></span><span style=“color: #ffffff; font-family: verdana, geneva, arial, helvetica, ‘sans serif’; line-height: 17px;”>Don’t drive on the train tracks.</span>

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I tried to convince Mrs O'Five that we need to go see T5:

"A lot of our friends say its actually a lot of fun."

"We watched the trailer for that... Is that the one with Arnold?"

"They all have Arnold."

"I mean, the one where he has a lot of cheesy lines."

"They all have cheesy lines."

"The one where the girl says the lines everyone else said in the other movies. 'Come with me if you want to live.'"

"That's the one."

"I'm not seeing that."

“Oh yeah. I’m a dummy.” - me

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Johnny Ringo said:

I'm not trying to attack you here

Really?

Did you see The Terminator [T1]?

 No, I haven't seen The Terminator, what is that?

Try harder.

You could look at it that way, but it's more like Star Trek - every time they go back, a new future is created. Terminator 3 taught us that everything they tried to prevent still happened, just in a different way.

Well, Star Trek sucked too, so yeah it's more like it. Also neither of them was really needed. If ST was needed, okay, I don't like it anyways (TNG was pretty good though).

He was in over his head there too. remember the police station, or the crimes he committed? He wasn't really a model soldier.

Didn't say he wasn't/he was. But he wasn't a whiny bitch Jai Courtney -type character acted by Jai Cortney who just became a passenger in this film. Now, I don't think Michael Biehn was an awesome actor and some of his lines were bad, but seriously, I couldn't picture Biehn's Kyle in this movie doing what he does here.

oh and with John - the most we've seen of him was the Xian Bale version where he doesn't really do a lot. he sits around the base, he growls at people, he gets  zero respect from command and then he almost gets himself killed by defying orders.

Salvation was a bad movie, yes. But at least John Connor was still John Connor, not a plot device to do something kinda old kinda new twist. It wasn't my strongest point, but it just felt lazy writing.

I think the point here was Sarah realising that she could actually make her own choices and not be a slave to the timeline. she'd been told that she had to have sex with a man she'd never met, I can see how she'd be uncomfortable with that. this is a bit different to meeting and falling in love with a guy.

Yes, but they had zero romantical chemistry on screen. It was almost Anakin-Padmé bad.

Here's an idea for an experiment - watch terminator 2 and every time Arnold delivers a cheesy one liner, take a shot of whiskey..

Are you comparing T2 and T5? Really? Arnold has one liners in all of his films. In T5 he was just a comedic relief more than an action star. If you think he's the same in T2 then okay.

Salvation was a complete waste, absolutely nothing important happened in that film. Even worse - there was no time travel, no attempt to alter events by messing with the past. To me that is what the Terminator is all about.

Well, the same can be said with this film that it's a waste. The only point I'm giving for Salvation is that at least they tried something different. We have now 4 movies of traveling through time, you don't think that's enough? I think 2 was good, then it just has gone repititive. Why do we need to see more of the same? Or why do we need Terminator movies at all anymore? They did the "perfect" movies already, they can't top them, why don't just give it a rest.
And I'm not defending Salvation at all, I don't like it. The plot was bad, Jai Courtney, no wait, Sam Worthington was bad etc. I just give it props to try something new. I also like some of the Terminator models that were bad-ass looking (not all).

I feel like you are being overly critical on a movie you just plain didn't like.

Umm, just critical actually. I could be more if I wanted. Like how Sarah Connor recognizes her own unborn son? Or the whole Kyle's memory thing. Or how Arnold flies off the time machine and becomes T-1000? If you know the anwsers, great. I don't care. Just saying that I could rip this apart more if I wanted.

This post has been edited.

And in the time of greatest despair, there shall come a savior, and he shall be known as the Son of the Suns.

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Jumping in here, if you don't mind:

LexX said:

Johnny Ringo said:

You could look at it that way, but it's more like Star Trek - every time they go back, a new future is created. Terminator 3 taught us that everything they tried to prevent still happened, just in a different way.

Well, Star Trek sucked too, so yeah it's more like it. Also neither of them was really needed. If ST was needed, okay, I don't like it anyways (TNG was pretty good though).

To throw in another example of a franchise movie where a new timeline is created, there's the lauded X-Men Days of Future Past. I respect franchise rewriters in a sense because they try to fix what is broken, rather than cop out and just reboot the damn thing. Terminator Genisys was always going to be necessarily complicated because it's a franchise, unlike Star Trek or X-Men, entirely steeped in time travel. 

He was in over his head there too. remember the police station, or the crimes he committed? He wasn't really a model soldier.

Didn't say he wasn't/he was. But he wasn't a whiny bitch Jai Courtney -type character acted by Jai Cortney who just became a passenger in this film. Now, I don't think Michael Biehn was an awesome actor and some of his lines were bad, but seriously, I couldn't picture Biehn's Kyle in this movie doing what he does here.

Really? I didn't find it too far a stretch of the imagination. He'd come back in time mentally prepared to be the archetypical male hero who saves the damsel in distress from the monster. Moreover, he even has a personal connection of sorts with the damsel in distress because of the picture that John gives him of her in the future.

When, expecting what he does, he travels back to 1984 to find that she has become competent enough in defending herself, it is no shock that he should become a bit whiny. Your description of him as a "passenger" is entirely accurate, albeit not a detriment to the film. He is essentially rendered impotent, as the damsel in distress has not only saved herself but also knows far more about the situation than he does. You're seeing Kyle Reese with his ego extremely bruised with feelings of uselessness.

Kyle Reese also must be taken aback to see his potential love interest consorting with the enemy, in the form of Pops. He's grown up, learning to smash "these metal motherfuckers," and it's reasonably hard to adapt to working with one. If Kyle Reese saw the events of Terminator 2, I have no doubt that he'd be utterly horrified to see his wife and son so close to the model that killed him. 

By no stretch of the imagination am I saying that Jai Courtney is a good actor. I hate him in everything else I see him in. Yet, the role is not as badly written as many think, and he performs adequately.

oh and with John - the most we've seen of him was the Xian Bale version where he doesn't really do a lot. he sits around the base, he growls at people, he gets  zero respect from command and then he almost gets himself killed by defying orders.

Salvation was a bad movie, yes. But at least John Connor was still John Connor, not a plot device to do something kinda old kinda new twist. It wasn't my strongest point, but it just felt lazy writing.

As I said before, in no sequel following T2 has John Connor been more accurately portrayed than he has here. John Connor is not meant to be the relatable married, family man with the baby on the way. He is supposed to be "the great man," ala Thomas Carlyle, who saves the human race.

I question, in Salvation, why they felt so strong a need to have an incompetent command led by Michael Ironside even exist. From Kyle Reese's description from T1, "There was one man who taught us to fight, to storm the wire of the camps, to smash those metal motherfuckers into junk," it sounded like Cameron wanted John Connor to be a mythic, messianic figure.

John is the singular reason the human race survived. His extensive foreknowledge of the future is what allows him to assume the role of "the great man" in the eyes of the resistance. Everyone else must be totally shocked by the simultaneous nuclear apocalypse and rise of the machines. That John Connor is so thoroughly prepared and mentally fortified for this inevitability makes him the automatic figure for leadership.

The price, of course, is that John Connor is alone. No one has as much knowledge as him, and he must be cold and calculating, as shown in the brief moments of T2's intro, in order to defeat Skynet. He has been prepared for this lonely existence by all the losses he has suffered in his life, from Kyle Reese before he was born to the T-800 when he was 10 to his mother, presumably sometime shortly before or after Judgment Day. 

I appreciate in Terminator Genisys then how people are still continually surprised by John's instinctive knowledge how to proceed. He hasn't even told Kyle Reese about his secret foreknowledge yet. Whenever watching Salvation, I always wonder why so many people follow Bale Connor, seeing how openly he claims to have future foreknowledge. 

Another clever(!) thing about Genisys is how desperately John Connor wants to reunite his family. Even though he has been completely reprogrammed, that base desire for the warmth that he lacked as the lonely leader in the future exists. Somehow, he wishes he could be with his mother and father, which, because of the Terminators, he never got a chance to.

I think the point here was Sarah realising that she could actually make her own choices and not be a slave to the timeline. she'd been told that she had to have sex with a man she'd never met, I can see how she'd be uncomfortable with that. this is a bit different to meeting and falling in love with a guy.

Yes, but they had zero romantical chemistry on screen. It was almost Anakin-Padmé bad.

I daresay you're confusing a lack of "romantical" chemistry with how Kyle and Sarah are written in Genisys. Again, Kyle expected a damsel in distress, but he got a Sarah who's as fierce but more capable than the women he meets in the future. Perhaps Kyle isn't the type who fancies strong women... Sarah, on the other hand, is actively fighting against falling in love. As Johnny Ringo said, Kyle Reese is essentially the personification of her "fate." They have to make love, and she naturally resents this lack of choice. Only when John suggests that the three because of extensive time travel are outsiders, whose actions don't matter does Sarah let herself warm up to Kyle. She no longer has to fall in love with him; she chooses to. 

Yet, love seems to find a way, as shown by the ending kiss. This act is supposed to raise the question of inevitability once more. 

Here's an idea for an experiment - watch terminator 2 and every time Arnold delivers a cheesy one liner, take a shot of whiskey..

Are you comparing T2 and T5? Really? Arnold has one liners in all of his films. In T5 he was just a comedic relief more than an action star. If you think he's the same in T2 then okay.

I mean Arnold's 67. Did you expect him to be the big action star in this summer blockbuster? Harrison Ford was the younger age of 65 the last time he tried to be the action star of an Indiana Jones movie and look how that turned out.

I like that Arnold's an important side character instead, who occasionally does action-y things. 

Salvation was a complete waste, absolutely nothing important happened in that film. Even worse - there was no time travel, no attempt to alter events by messing with the past. To me that is what the Terminator is all about.

Well, the same can be said with this film that it's a waste. The only point I'm giving for Salvation is that at least they tried something different. We have now 4 movies of traveling through time, you don't think that's enough? I think 2 was good, then it just has gone repititive. Why do we need to see more of the same? Or why do we need Terminator movies at all anymore? They did the "perfect" movies already, they can't top them, why don't just give it a rest.
And I'm not defending Salvation at all, I don't like it. The plot was bad, Jai Courtney, no wait, Sam Worthington was bad etc. I just give it props to try something new. I also like some of the Terminator models that were bad-ass looking (not all).

I certainly wouldn't describe this film as a waste. It was downright ballsy not to be another retread of old territory. Furthermore, Salvation's biggest weakness and strength is that it's completely innocuous. It's more like a spinoff than anything with no significant changes to the timeline or additions to the mythology. This builds on T1 and T2 even if it has to be necessarily complicated to do so. 

If you or any others don't like the fact that more Terminator movies are being made, that's fine. That doesn't mean this one deserves more hate than it gets. I remember when Salvation came out, people were cautiously optimistic. It's a bit baffling to me how so many agreed to hate this film before it came out. 

I feel like you are being overly critical on a movie you just plain didn't like.

Umm, just critical actually. I could be more if I wanted. Like how Sarah Connor recognizes her own unborn son? Or the whole Kyle's memory thing. Or how Arnold flies off the time machine and becomes T-1000? If you know the anwsers, great. I don't care. Just saying that I could rip this apart more if I wanted.

  •  Kyle recognizes John's voice at first, and, though he doesn't explicitly identify him, the magnitude of his reaction leads Sarah to the likely conclusion that this is her son. It requires some suspension of disbelief no doubt, but I can buy it. 
  • They had a long winded line of exposition about Kyle's memory thing involving a nexus. Considering that he traveled at the exact moment his universe changed (Matt Smith Skynet grabbing John Connor), it's understandable that he would remember the timeline he came from and start to have "memories" of the new one, which the Matt Smith Skynet created. 
  • Arnold's CPU wasn't damaged, so it reprogrammed the polymimetic alloy, introducing the lines of coding that it lacked. The coding bit was explicitly said when they entered the facility.

If you know the anwsers, great. I don't care. Just saying that I could rip this apart more if I wanted.

I do hope you actually take the time to read this rebuttal. I appreciate you have a difference of opinion, but, at the same time, I'd like to have a chance to explain why I have a positive opinion of the movie. Clearly, I now see I'm not the only one who thinks Genisys isn't as bad as the internet at large (and not just you) claim it to be. This not caring business is what I fear- when people put their thoughts out on a movie on the public forum that is the internet, I don't think it should come as a surprise that others could disagree. Furthermore, I think it's somewhat inconsiderate to dismiss responses so callously. 

Again, I don't think Terminator Genisys is a great movie. Frankly, due to Alan Taylor's poor direction in terms of action, it skirts the line of good. Yet, I think it is the most worthy follow-up to the original two that has surfaced thus far. It's not a self-effacing retread (T3), and it's not a virtual spin-off (Salvation). The scriptwriters seem to understand and respect Cameron's originals. That's more than I can say for T3, where it's admitted that one of them just needed a house and in fact disliked the first two. In the end, I understand why Cameron calls it the "official third." 

Certainly, that's fair.

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