THX 1138 "preservations" + the 'THX 1138 Italian Cut' project (Released) — Page 77

Since eBay links are not forever, is there anyone saving this rare stuff on his PC/hard disk/cloud space?

Oh, don't worry about preserving that "program". We'll just print up another.  :)  BTW, I noticed a small spelling error -- so I corrected it. Knowing George, he won't mind another fix-up ...

SilverWook said:

An interesting historical artifact!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1971-THX-1138-US-Preview-PROGRAM-George-LUCAS-Francis-Ford-COPPOLA-Star-Wars-/161629861887

Note the original running time.

msycamore said:

Well, there's that 88 minute running time again. Been around from the beginning it seems, except for that very early promo ad which displayed 108 minutes.

I've noticed a couple of those (obviously?) faux run-times in the slushy accuracy, typo-ridden World Wide Web, like that "108 minutes" and another "98 minutes" I recently saw. At least, they get the last digit right.  :)  But the verifiable consensus is "88 minutes" and "86 minutes".

Those last two numbers match well in my theory The World, The Devil, And George Lucas (just kidding on that title, George ... not!**) starting back on page 62:

George               ver.1            ver.1.WB          ver.1             ver.2               ver.3               ver.4
 Lucas                1970              1971              1978             1983               2004               2010

  version 1 - 1970 (88m?)
     the Lucas original & finished cut of THX 1138
     (un-released when it was taken away from him by Warner)

  version 1.WB - 1971 (86m?)
     the Warner Bros.' re-edit
     (released to theaters - a flop)
     (cuts; sequence re-ordering?)

  version 1 - 1978 (88m?)
     back to Lucas' original & finished cut
     (released to theaters & TV broadcasts [16mm] under Lucas' terms after Star Wars success - a flop)

  version 2 - 1983 (86m)
     Lucas' next edit
     (re-edited for TV broadcasts & home video [LD, Beta, VHS, CED] - builds to cult status)
     (less some SEN shots; sequence re-ordering?)

  version 3 - 2004 (88m)
      Lucas' next edit
      (added Computer Graphics & re-coloring, sequence re-ordering, and out-takes for TV broadcasts & home video [DVD] - cult status)

  version 4 - 2010 (88m)
      Lucas' next edit
      (added tweaks of coloring, etc., for TV broadcasts & home video [Blu-ray] - cult status)

.

I'm in the process of tracking down photos of released media for copyright dates and run-times (again) -- previous research is buried somewhere.  :(

.

**

George Lucas said:

“I’m a ’60s, West Coast, liberal, radical, artsy, dyed-in-the-wool 99 percenter before there was such a thing.”
  -New York Times Magazine - George Lucas Is Ready to Roll the Credits, by Bryan Curtis [Jan. 17, 2012]

"I’m a 60’s radical, government unhappy, Wall Street-hating person from San Francisco"
  -The Funny Mon Blog - Exclusive George Lucas Interview For Upcoming Animated Film Strange Magic by Desiree Eaglin [Jan. 20, 2015]

...aaaand the odd Italian edit (available on VHS, containing the extra shots of SEN and the narrated flashback edit), which should go on a parallel time-line like on the blackboard of Back To The Future II :lol

Which versions of that list have we actually "seen"? Which one haven't emerged yet?

thxita said:

...aaaand the odd Italian edit (available on VHS, containing the extra shots of SEN and the narrated flashback edit) ...

...

Which versions of that list have we actually "seen"? Which one haven't emerged yet?

From it's date, the Italian edit would surely be from the Warner Bros. edit, which would've been in circulation from 1971 to 1977+. The "+" indicates that broadcast markets might keep their prints and broadcast those well beyond the date of any new release (with new fees?).

From what I've read and so conjecture, Warner Bros. had no confidence in that film student's new film. For international markets, they simple gave them the English language print to do with as they pleased. And the Italian broadcasters did just that, with re-edits and changing the movie into a flashback. Actually that was pretty inventive -- to keep the story tense right out of the gate. Poor George ... he don't get no respect.  :,(

But if that's right, then WB didn't trim the SEN helping the children scene. I have little clue of the differences between the two version 1's. There are "?" after those times for that reason. So I'm thinking it was Lucas who shortened that SEN scene in his version 2 (1983), probably for reasons I mentioned back on page 62 (the performances didn't work).

So, we haven't actually seen the unadulterated (official) version 1-WB-variant (the 1st theatrical release), but poita mentioned a scan of that version. I'd love to have documentation of the cut-by-cut, w/ frame-timecodes & lengths, accompanied by a representative screencap of each. And ... a choco-lotta coffee ... creamed and heavy on the dark chocolate ... super-sized.
  Mmmm...

SilverWook had a Pan & Scan of the released version 1 (yes, GL's original cut fresh back from WB control, according to my theory), which would've been in circulation from 1978 to 1982+. I never did find out what the run-time was on it. There was a sample scan, on which I worked up some of my proofs-of-concept back in this thread. It had the SEN scene complete. Was it ever given the promised, complete scan? Anybody?

For version 2 and onward, we have the laserdiscs, videotapes, DVD, Blu-ray, and their certifications. By then, Lucas was thinking about his original edit and was busy tinkering. That's when those SEN shots disappeared.

.

[Initially, there was speculation that these significant changes in his movies, and his attempt to wipe the originals from the face of the Earth, was to limit alimony and/or royalties to his first wife. We're talkin' a big pocket of coins here.]  :O

I always thought your 16mm was cool. Now, if my theory proves correct and you have Lucas' original & finished cut of 1970/1978, that's very cool! I hope it can be tracked down. Should we call for three additional officers?  :D

poita said:

The film scan is really, really magenta, so would take a lot of work to become useable ...

From some time ago, I noticed that certain shot(s) of THX 1138 looked devoid of color. Of course, a big deal was made over that artist design. But the color in this film was always saturated and distinctive. Back on page 53 is a screenshot-conglomeration of sources of one shot in particular ..
http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/THX-1138-preservations-Italian-Cut-available-see-1st-post/post/626065/#TopicPost626065

I was thinking about restoration back then, but it is interesting to note that even the New And Improved releases of this shot actually looked like less color. I never did get to see SilverWook's 16mm scan of that particular shot to check it's color there.

Anyway, I made some R-G-B breakdowns, looking for clues about that shot ..

THX 1138 LD

THX 1138 DVD

THX 1138 Blu-ray

I'm beginning to wonder ... was this shot ever in color? Was this originally some kind of B&W test that they though was too good not to use and "toned" it (RGB-contrast manipulation) to give it some color? Those elevator door-way shadows are not natural -- they are in the same luminance range of the child's skin and so are the same color! Other robo-hallway shots do not look like that (skin-tones on the environment) ..

(I couldn't find a proper LD screenshot for comparison because of that plague of frogs "of Biblical proportions" from "missing images" - the result of Imageshack's website reorganization; here's an approximation comparison shot from the few surviving pictures in our thread .. )

Spaced Ranger said:

... was this shot ever in color? Was this originally some kind of B&W test that they thought was too good not to use and "toned" it (RGB-contrast manipulation) to give it some color?

After some thought, I'm thinking it probably wasn't a B&W test. More likely the original negative was lost or destroyed and all they had left was the B&W dailies print of that shot. If this actually was the case, could I duplicate this scenario (you had to ask?) and would it prove my extrapolation?

First, I took an original screencap from this thread (saved before Imageshack's reorganization wiped out most of our pictures) and de-saturated it to B&W ..

original screencap de-saturated

Next -- how to color this with a one-time application to apply throughout the whole shot?
Ever notice in the original shot (see below) how there is odd coloring that splashes the walls? How about those elevator doorways ... same color as the child's skin? It was because the three primary colors, which compose even B&W film, were independently altered to accent differently parts of the (luminance only) spectrum with target colors ..

Is it really that easy? Well ... yes ... if you don't count all the twiddling that goes on to strengthen a color over here but not over there.

So let's see what we get ... surely not a color picture? YES, and a pretty good one at that ..

B&W screencap colorized

Now is that amazing or what! (I added special processing of 2 stationary strips, but those also are one-time applications.)

Finally, am I right about this whole scenario? Let's compare this to what they actually did ..

original US laserdisc screencap

Well, wat-da-ya-know. We must give George's boys their due credit on this one. They really saved the day with good ol' fashion ingenuity.     And knowing this should help with any restoration of faded film. 

Tee H Ex. :)

Never seen it though, so I could be totally saying it wrong. Haha

                             THAT  DOETH-H  IT !
Making  fun  of  a  fella  with-h  a  th-h-peach  impediment.
             Now  I  ueth-h  my  TH-H-HECRET  WEAPON !! ...

          ... TH-H-ALIVA !!!                

George beat them to it (in a sneaky little way) ...

  "You know, there's nothing supernatural or mystic about Duck.
                  He's just an ordinary, normal water fowl,
                          who keeps his nit-wit about him."