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Star Wars prequel film noir (* unfinished project *)

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This is a completely hypothetical question, as I’m not sure I’m going to do another full movie after “Shroud of the Dark Side” comes out this November, but if I or anyone else were to create a black-and-white prequel movie in a 40’s- 60’s aesthetic, mostly based on “Revenge of the Sith”, but incorporating flashbacks (Anakin and Palpatine’s first conversation about the force, for example)…

what possible ideas would you have to completely change the story and make it good (and actually having continuity with the OT)?

Here are my earlier posts on this:

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That’s why I was considering a completely different approach for Ep. III- a black and white noir film, with Anakin narrating and with flashbacks (a la “Laura”, “Blade Runner”). This cut of the film would use classic Bernard Hermann music and completely excise General Grievous and all that nonsense, focusing entirely on Anakin, his narration, and his spiral downward. I would have incredible freedom in the story as a result of Anakin’s narration.

<div class=“PostQuote”>Watching old b-features and old detective movies like “Laura” really got my brain cranking. I thought… what if Star Wars was originally a noir movie from the '40’s and '50’s, very old-fashioned and in black & white? Later on in the seventies or eighties, they made the very popular Star Wars trilogy, but this is the original film made a long time ago. Imagine that it’s another thing Lucas suppressed!

My idea is to make “Revenge of the Sith” black and white before editing, and make the whole film about Anakin’s fall. None of the Grievous stuff, or most of the opening battle, or other stuff that’s both unneccessary and would give away the CGI as being modern. There would be no crawl, but instead an old-fashioned title sequence, perhaps with stills of close-ups of the characters. The title could be “Anakin Skywalker.”

The major point is that everything is made to give this movie an old feel, older than the '70’s-80’s. Lounge music is used for the temptation scene at the theatre. Classic Bernard Hermann music is used for most of the rest of the score, “Marnie” and “Vertigo” type stuff (but not as well known). I know we can’t use the iconic “Pyscho” music, but I always envisioned the shower music when Anakin walks into the room of children.

Here’s the other big thing: In this version, Anakin is dubbed, and he is narrating the entire story. At certain points in the movie, when you have a close-up of Anakin, the narration can take us back to flashbacks from “Episode II”, from the love story. A very “noir” thing to do.

And lastly, the audio will have more treble, more of a raw feel, and it’ll be stereo or mono. I don’t know if I’ve explained my concept very well or if it’d be enjoyable to watch to any person but me, but I just love the idea of getting into Anakin’s head through him narrating the entire picture and showing flashbacks. The cinematography in Episode III (at least the dialogue scenes) was very good this time around, making this type of thing possible. But here’s the thing: how much better can you illusrate Anakin’s fall than walking around with him the entire movie as we hear his thoughts? Obviously, some GREAT scriptwriting would need to go into Anakin’s narration, but
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Anakin: That’s Palpatine. Supreme Chancellor Palpatine. The most powerful man in the galaxy and one of my dearest friends. Ever since I arrived at the Academy, I had spent long hours talking with him in his office (as we’re fading to a flashback of the Anakin/Palpatine scene from Ep. II).

Anakin: Yes, I never realized how naive I was until I met him…
</span>

Obviously that was just off of the top of my head, but do you see what incredible character depth could go into this “old” movie, a single prequel to the Star Wars trilogy?

“Wow. So make it look like it was shot in the late '40’s-early '50’s?”

Yes, which works nicely because this time, the rotten CGI was mostly confined to Upatu and the wookie planet. Using everything else, especially in black and white, would give this the right feel, especially with Hermann music. I know this wouldn’t be popular with some, but maybe even editing off of the full-screen ROTS DVD might be the right way to go for this project. That was pretty much the aspect ratio back then, after all.

Also, I think this project would really appear to the strict OOT fan, who hates all of the prequels because no matter how much you edit them, all of the Geonosis/Upatu/Wookie planet stuff can’t be removed. If we do a single, old-fashioned prequel with flashbacks and Anakin’s narration, and the script is well written, I can envision lots of people enjoying this movie at the same level as the OOT.

The point is that going into the noir style of filmmaking/editing would let me get away with a lot of stuff that I would love to do for Anakin’s backstory, but simply can’t due to the original framework. The best part is that this project wouldn’t take as long as “Shroud of the Dark Side”, and I’d have some of the dubbing already completed for the “big budget” Starkiller Ranch ROTS.

And this project would involve such incredible creativity in scriptwriting. I mean, we were unhappy with Anakin’s portrayal throughout the PT; Shroud of the Dark Side is going a long way to fix that, but a black & white noir film with narration (kind of like “Blade Runner”) is also a great excuse to completely rewrite Skywalker’s corruption and his rationale for what he did.

This is all stuff I would be afraid to do in the “official” color edit, of course.</div>

The best part is that you could perhaps finally preserve the secret of Darth Vader and Luke in TESB, by removing any reference to “Skywalker” that might exist in ROTS after the other footage had been edited out. You could also make Palpatine’s line, “It wasn’t the first time, Anakin. Remember what you told me about your mother?” CUT. You can really use your imagination here without having to adhere to the backstory provided by Ep. I and II. Also, to preserve the surprise, we don’t see Padme give birth to the twins. In fact, Anakin can kill her on the spot, on the lava planet, through a couple extended shots.</div>

Brainstorming time! How much of a departure could we have from the original plot, but still using the original footage (and any other noir footage that could possible fit in, like a guy playing piano in the background in a bar scene, for example, or have Anakin and Palpatine watching some kind of play or dance, rather than that CG bubble show, or whatever it was).

How far could this be taken?

-TM

Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side

Emperor Jar-Jar
“Back when we made Star Wars, we just couldn’t make Palpatine as evil as we intended. Now, thanks to the miracles of technology, it is finally possible. Finally, I’ve created the movies that I originally imagined.” -George Lucas on the 2007 Extra Extra Special HD-DVD Edition

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Could you use Metropolis as a partial stand-in for Coruscant? It's a few decades earlier than you were thinking, but it was also a few decades ahead of its time, so that all balances out. You might want to avoid the scenes with cars and planes (or not), but there's some still shots that are basically hand-drawn or animated by the architect who designed the place.

If you do go with that route, you might want to integrate the old Metropolis stuff with some newer concept art of Coruscant, going back to the high-res scans in the Shadows of the Empire CD. You can use pans and zooms around this material instead of CGI whenever you need an establishing shot of the city. Or is that a little too cheesy?

Also, fake matte boxes and lower framerate for Jar-Jar. (comedy option)
"It's the stoned movie you don't have to be stoned for." -- Tom Shales on Star Wars
Scruffy's gonna die the way he lived.
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I think this sounds like a very cool idea. Remember to add grain and add some scratched and dirt. And even play with the lighting for a bit of a more flat look. I can understand going for pan & scan, but it us rather ugly. Reframing the 2.35 image to something like 1.78 would be a faire trade off.

While Herrman was mentioned for music, I'd suggest going for other film noir scores as well. Laura was mentioned, and that had a very rich score which could be used for some of the early scenes - more idyllic Anakin. You also mentioned skipping on the music from Psycho, but Psycho does have some precedence in a Star Wars film. There was a cue from Psycho used in Star Wars.

I guess some of the cornier moments from the PT would work well. Especially weepy Padme in ROTS. While film noir is known more for the femme fatale, they have their share of weepy women.
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I like the idea of using Metropolis footage for Coruscant. I guess I'd have to see the Shadows of the Empire pics to know if it'd work or not.

Reframing the 2.35 image to something like 1.78 would be a faire trade off.

Actually, that had ocurred to me after I posted that. I probably will just make it 16x9 instead of 4x3.

ower framerate for Jar-Jar. (comedy option)

The neat thing about this actually would be that we wouldn't have to use Jar-Jar... at all. No Jar-Jar.

Laura was mentioned, and that had a very rich score which could be used for some of the early scenes - more idyllic Anakin.

I like this idea. Anakin reflecting on his "innocent" self, maybe, or his romance.

You also mentioned skipping on the music from Psycho, but Psycho does have some precedence in a Star Wars film. There was a cue from Psycho used in Star Wars.

I know the cue you're talking about! I need no more persuasion I love that music.

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Those are really good ideas on specific cues, but does anyone have any conceptual differences that could be pulled off? For example...

While film noir is known more for the femme fatale

Padme doesn't have to be a queen in this one. There's no reason why she'd have to be. She could just be Anakin's wife. To make her a femme fatale, a new actress would be necessary, of course. Actually, her name doesn't even have to be Padme in this one... it could be any two syllable name. Nancy. Lonna. Anything.

MY IDEA:

The neat part about this is that as the movie progresses, we can actually see the effects of the Dark Side on Anakin. In other words, he does a lot of bad things, implied through narration. Doesn't tell his wife where he's going, and starts going out to bars, drinks, walks the streets drunk with thugs and so on- you name it. "Blade Runner" footage would be great for this. Instead of just having Anakin glare at camera and try to look bad, we see the evil effects of the Dark Side. The seduction, the temptation of haing fun without consequences. All stuff that wasn't explored originally. And THEN he starts killing Jedi secretly. In the night. The revelation to Padme at the end of the film is that Palpatine and Vader had been taking over the galaxy behind her back.

And as the movie progresses, Anakin starts to become conniving, and rather slick in his explanations of where he's been. Padme (or whatever the name is), being the trusting wife that she is, believes him at first, but then loses it. Finally, she finds some piece of irrefutable evidence- a hologram or a newscast or something. She cries but she says nothing to Anakin.

Finally, Anakin tells her he's going away for a long trip, longer than any of his other trips. He says it's a special Jedi conference. Padme follows him to the lava planet, and actually witnesses him kill all of the Nemoidians (which are innocent as far as we know). We don't see her witness it, of course, and neither does Anakin, but when Padme confronts Anakin afterwards and says that she saw what Anakin did with her own eyes, he kills her on the spot, saying some Vader line before she collapses.

Then, the second surprise is that Obi-Wan was a stowaway on PADME's ship, and Anakin has him to contend with. In an abbreviated and slowed down version of the lightsaber fight, Obi-Wan somehow gets Anakin, without us having to show all of the lava-surfing nonsense. And I'm not sure what the end would be...


My question is, does anyone have any idea on how much of this plot line would actually be possible? Also, if anyone has any ideas on specific lines of narration for Anakin, that'd be great.

Thanks so much! Even if it's never made, I think this could be great fun It would be basically a complete character study on Anakin all the way through.

The title could be, "The Story of a Fallen Man", or something similar...

-TM

Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side

Emperor Jar-Jar
“Back when we made Star Wars, we just couldn’t make Palpatine as evil as we intended. Now, thanks to the miracles of technology, it is finally possible. Finally, I’ve created the movies that I originally imagined.” -George Lucas on the 2007 Extra Extra Special HD-DVD Edition

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Unfortunately, I can't access the data session on my SotE CD. But most or all of the artwork is reproduced as thumbnails in the liner notes; it looks like Ralph McQuarrie paintings, maybe from the Had Abaddon era.

How are you planning on addressing the Sith and the reorganization of the Republic into the Empire, if at all? I kind of like the idea of Palpatine circuitously talking about "the cause," and "our brothers in the Sith." It could reflect the 1950s fear of communism in the government, but the communists are also anti-Jedi occultists. I don't know how the occult was portrayed in the film noir era, but I'd borrow language from RL occultism.

Palpatine would secretly be "the Grand Master of the Sith." Upon rescuing him from Jedi Master Windu, Anakin would be elevated to "Lord of the Sith," "one of the Dark Lords of the Sith," etc. Anakin would use his Sith philosophy and his advancement in the Order to justify spending less time with his wife or the Jedi. He's a convert, full of a convert's zeal, he's found the True Way now and what do those other people matter anymore?

You've said some of this will be Anakin narrating. When is he narrating this? That would influence how he views the events that have happened. Is his life flashing before his eyes as he lays dying on Mustafar? Is he at the height of his power in the Empire, reminiscing how he got there? Dying on the DSII?
"It's the stoned movie you don't have to be stoned for." -- Tom Shales on Star Wars
Scruffy's gonna die the way he lived.
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Originally posted by: Scruffy

How are you planning on addressing the Sith and the reorganization of the Republic into the Empire, if at all? I kind of like the idea of Palpatine circuitously talking about "the cause," and "our brothers in the Sith." It could reflect the 1950s fear of communism in the government, but the communists are also anti-Jedi occultists. I don't know how the occult was portrayed in the film noir era, but I'd borrow language from RL occultism.

Palpatine would secretly be "the Grand Master of the Sith." Upon rescuing him from Jedi Master Windu, Anakin would be elevated to "Lord of the Sith," "one of the Dark Lords of the Sith," etc. Anakin would use his Sith philosophy and his advancement in the Order to justify spending less time with his wife or the Jedi. He's a convert, full of a convert's zeal, he's found the True Way now and what do those other people matter anymore?

I REALLY like this idea. "Our brothers in the Sith" and "the cause". We could have some major Palpatine/Anakin brainwashing going on here...

You've said some of this will be Anakin narrating. When is he narrating this? That would influence how he views the events that have happened. Is his life flashing before his eyes as he lays dying on Mustafar?


That's a good question. Yes, it would probably be his life flashing before his eyes. So after the opening credits, maybe the movie would start with a slow zoom on him burning, and then his narration is to tell how he got there. Although I wouldn't really want to give away the ending of the movie right at the beginning like that.

The trouble with him narrating at the height of his power is that his voice would be the Darth Vader voice, which wouldn't be preferable.

Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side

Emperor Jar-Jar
“Back when we made Star Wars, we just couldn’t make Palpatine as evil as we intended. Now, thanks to the miracles of technology, it is finally possible. Finally, I’ve created the movies that I originally imagined.” -George Lucas on the 2007 Extra Extra Special HD-DVD Edition

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You may want to grab some of the 1080i versions floating around before you start.
Once you turn it back to into 1080P you will have a lot more scope for creative work if your final output is going to be 16x9 at 720x480
For example if your starting images are HD then you can zoom in on a characters face by a factor of at least two and still not get noticable pixelation at SD res, it will allow you to crop shots etc. without degradation in your final piece.

I'd go Sin City on it and go mostly B&W with some colour or tints for particular scenes, a bit of red never hurts when travelling down the dark side.
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There are some cityscapes in the original Buck Rogers serial that may have influenced the look of Coruscant. And a couple city shots in the 1979 movie version might be worth a look at for your purposes.
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Giving away the ending all depends on what the ending is. Sometimes narrators don't know the whole story; they just carry you to a point near the end where something unexpected happens.

Scene 1

Several establishing shots of Mustafar, taken from RotS or stock footage of volcanoes. OS, in the distance, someone is moaning in pain. Dissolve to Anakin feebly clawing up a lava knoll, moaning louder now.

Anakin (VO): The third degree burns hurt, but not as bad as my pride. Carved up by Ben Kenobi and left like bacon on a skillet. How could I have let myself fall this low? It all started when ...

Scene 1 + a bijillion

Anakin (VO): And now I'm dying on this forsaken cinder of a world.

Palpatine arrives and saves him. Maybe show footage up to his arrival at the surgical center.

Anakin (VO): Looks like I'm not toast after all. But knowing this guy, I'm gonna wish I was.

Fin.

"It's the stoned movie you don't have to be stoned for." -- Tom Shales on Star Wars
Scruffy's gonna die the way he lived.
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Originally posted by: Laserman
You may want to grab some of the 1080i versions floating around before you start.
Once you turn it back to into 1080P you will have a lot more scope for creative work if your final output is going to be 16x9 at 720x480
For example if your starting images are HD then you can zoom in on a characters face by a factor of at least two and still not get noticable pixelation at SD res, it will allow you to crop shots etc. without degradation in your final piece.


That would be great. I'll see if I can find a copy. The files would be very large, though, wouldn't they?

Originally posted by: SilverWook
There are some cityscapes in the original Buck Rogers serial that may have influenced the look of Coruscant. And a couple city shots in the 1979 movie version might be worth a look at for your purposes.


Thanks- I'll check it out



Giving away the ending all depends on what the ending is. Sometimes narrators don't know the whole story; they just carry you to a point near the end where something unexpected happens.

Scene 1

Several establishing shots of Mustafar, taken from RotS or stock footage of volcanoes. OS, in the distance, someone is moaning in pain. Dissolve to Anakin feebly clawing up a lava knoll, moaning louder now.

Anakin (VO): The third degree burns hurt, but not as bad as my pride. Carved up by Ben Kenobi and left like bacon on a skillet. How could I have let myself fall this low? It all started when ...

Scene 1 + a bijillion

Anakin (VO): And now I'm dying on this forsaken cinder of a world.

Palpatine arrives and saves him. Maybe show footage up to his arrival at the surgical center.

Anakin (VO): Looks like I'm not toast after all. But knowing this guy, I'm gonna wish I was.


I like this idea a lot. So often in these movies, the narrator is telling the story of how he got to where he was. But this way, the ending would still be a surprise. Sort of....

The dialogue has the right tone, too! This could be great

Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side

Emperor Jar-Jar
“Back when we made Star Wars, we just couldn’t make Palpatine as evil as we intended. Now, thanks to the miracles of technology, it is finally possible. Finally, I’ve created the movies that I originally imagined.” -George Lucas on the 2007 Extra Extra Special HD-DVD Edition

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The idea has great potential, but don't take it too far, don't you still want it to fit with the ot? Also my suggestion on the aspect ratio would be 16:9, not 2.35:1 or 4:3.
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Yes, I think that if this is ever made, I'll go for 16x9 anamorphic.

I just had what I think is a really good idea- tell me what you think. Since Metropolis was brought up, I was thinking about Coruscant itself.

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Picture this:


HAD ABADDON. Capital of the Republic. One side is nothing but a huge city, but the far side is a lava-filled, volcanic wasteland. It's where convicts, political enemies, and other criminals are sent. So you see, the entire story takes place on Had Abaddon (except for flashbacks).

Good idea?

Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side

Emperor Jar-Jar
“Back when we made Star Wars, we just couldn’t make Palpatine as evil as we intended. Now, thanks to the miracles of technology, it is finally possible. Finally, I’ve created the movies that I originally imagined.” -George Lucas on the 2007 Extra Extra Special HD-DVD Edition

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Oh, I likes it. Except that it the city ought to fill up the whole surface except for giant valleys along its surface which are too unstable to build in due to volcanic activity. Half and half seems too convenient.
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Reminds me of certain versions of Eternia; I think the original MotU writers' bible and the recent remake had the planet split in twain like that.
"It's the stoned movie you don't have to be stoned for." -- Tom Shales on Star Wars
Scruffy's gonna die the way he lived.
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Like I said when you first proposed this idea on the SOTDS board, I love the idea. I am more excited about the possibility of you making this than I have been for any other fan edit. The PT is a bit of a lost cause to me and I am disapointed that I will never get to see a serious story of Anakin's fall to the dark side. This, if done right might be the closest thing any of us get to a serious and coherent prequel story.

Some of the suggestions have been really good, but I think some of your ideas are making him too dark. The way I see the story of Star Wars is a story of two people, Anakin and Luke. Anakin failed miserably, and where he failed Luke succeeds and redeems Anakin at the same time. Maybe I am thinking on a totally different path than some of you, but I think Anakin needs to be a good guy, he needs to be the hero. We need him to be the guy Obi-wan talks about in A New Hope. He needs to be virtuous, to be a truly good person, but then to be drug down and corrupted. I think this was an essential point for the redemption scene in Jedi to work. I don't think it should be (but it could be) a story of the abusive father type repenting in the end of how he neglected his family (to give a loose example), but a story of dark taking over light, but light ultimately triumphing over dark in the end. I think that is the thing that will separate it from an interesting story and from becoming an epic. I don't much like the idea of Anakin going behind Padme and killing Jedi, it doesn't seem to fit. I think it would even work better, though not as dramatic I suppose, if he didn't kill his wife at all. Lets say he left her, or maybe even better yet she leaves him. This could add more to his feeling of betrayal. Perhaps he is the one involved in politics and not her, or maybe he is just a jedi who are essentially detectives/cops. Maybe he is a work aholic, coming home late every night and she feels neglected and leaves him, later it turns out she was pregnant but maybe she didn't know that when she left and never bothered to tell him, or he "died" before she got the chance. This way Vader never would have imagined the possibility of having any offspring. This could be tailored to fit the OT flawlessly (as flawless as possible that is). Imagine if after Anakin's wife leaves him she, Obi-wan, Anakin's closest friend feels she was treated badly by her husband and tries to comfort her and help her out, they could end up growing closer and closer and Anakin could discover this. This would even more rationalize Anakin's total turn from the jedi and his trying to kill his best friend. It could end with Obi-wan seeing Anakin die, but since we are viewing things from Anakin's point of view we can know that he lives. "He left me there to die, but the Sith are much more resilient than that…" I was also thinking it might be interesting to separate the emperor from the chancellor. The whole face distorting thing from the force lighting is really dumb, it might be a good way to toss it. As for when Anakin starts killing the jedi (and I think killing the kids should be dropped out all together, it is a bit too sick. At least they shouldn't be the first he kills.), imagine that some big turn happens in the movie (like when Mace dies, or something of that matter) then we have the big reveal to Anakin, after all this time of slowly being manipulated by his mentor, he now knows the jedi are a big problem, they aren't really keepers of the peace but a bunch of warmongers who won't allow the war to end. Now he is told to "go to the jedi temple and do what must be done." Anakin VO: "At that moment it hit me, I finally realized what had to be done. The Jedi Council, this whole thing was being manipulated from the inside by them, there was nothing else to be done They had to be eliminated!" It is a shame there are no scenes of Anakin fighting any Jedi, we only get to see him getting ready to commit the murder of half a dozen or so 7 years olds.
Also I was thinking if you went with Anakin's wife leaving him, you could you the scene when he enters his apartment and sits down, then asks if Obi-wan had been here. Imagine that in B&W with the VO "She left me. (sneers) She didn't even have the guts to tell me she was leaving me, I come home and find a note, then realize all her things are gone. She had really left."

Just some thoughts. I hope you get the time to make this, it is something I would really be looking forward to.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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Trooperman, if you need somebody to write some dialogue, i'd be very interested to try and help out! Also, I don't know if i can do an Anakin impersonation, but i'd be willing to do some voice over work as well. I'm an actor by trade so i can guarantee my delivery will not be totally horrible(well, i'd hope anyway, lol).
I'm always looking to trade my edits, if you don't want to get them from a torrent. PM or e-mail!
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i know this might not synch up, but if we're going to use different films, why not use some combat footage from the Episode III video game? There's a whole level of Anakin destroying Jedi in the temple, perhaps some of that good be used?
I'm always looking to trade my edits, if you don't want to get them from a torrent. PM or e-mail!
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I don't think the video game footage would quite fit with the film. One of the ideas of this edit is to do away with as much cg as possible, adding in video game quality 3d models might not be headed down the right track. Of course, I myself have not seen the video games footage so I could be wrong. I was thinking, the novel of Revenge of the Sith by Matthew Stover is pretty good. It adds alot more inner monologue to Anakin and his reasoning of things. While it is pretty true to the film, it translates more realitically than the movie. All of Anakin's thoughts as he turns to the dark side are written out for us.

One example of this is when they are climbing through the elavator shaft Palpatine is afraid of falling and asks Anakin to give him his hand, which is what is holding Obi-wan while Palps hangs from his leg as Anakin hangs on to the shaft with his other hand. Anakin thinks to himself that the Chancellor must not be thinking clearly because all the stress and doesn't realize what he is asking Anakin to do by letting Obi-wan fall. While in the movie when Palpatine says leave him, he has been knocked unconscience and can't possibly survive, Anakin just says, no we are not leaving him, while the audience thinks what an idiot Anakin is for trusting and caring so much about a guy who would ask him to leave his slightly injured best friend/father figure for dead.

I bet some decent dialogue could be salvaged from the book. It is actually quite impressively written. To me it feels more like reading a classic rather than a sci-fi novel. And for me that is a big deal to say because I usually only read classics anymore and rarely ever read sci-fi. The language and explaination Stover using is for the most part fantastic. At points it falls short due to the fact that it is based off one of the worst screenplays ever written, and also sometimes he tries to put in some odd humor that just doesn't fit.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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using novel dialogue sounds like a very good idea.
I'm always looking to trade my edits, if you don't want to get them from a torrent. PM or e-mail!
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Some great conceptual notes from C3PX.

I agree that Anakin should start out as a good person and deteriorate as the movie goes on. He should definitely not start out lousy. However, an idea that really appeals to me is seeing Anakin's personality get darker and darker as we see Palpatine's influence on him.

The whole "behind Padme's back" thing is just an idea, to be used or not. As far as having him walk out on her, I don't know if I'd do that, because we lose the climax of Anakin killing her in his ultimate use of the Dark Side. At that point, he's gone.


"Lets say he left her, or maybe even better yet she leaves him. This could add more to his feeling of betrayal. Perhaps he is the one involved in politics and not her, or maybe he is just a jedi who are essentially detectives/cops. Maybe he is a work aholic, coming home late every night and she feels neglected and leaves him, later it turns out she was pregnant but maybe she didn't know that when she left and never bothered to tell him, or he "died" before she got the chance. This way Vader never would have imagined the possibility of having any offspring. This could be tailored to fit the OT flawlessly (as flawless as possible that is). Imagine if after Anakin's wife leaves him she, Obi-wan, Anakin's closest friend feels she was treated badly by her husband and tries to comfort her and help her out, they could end up growing closer and closer and Anakin could discover this. This would even more rationalize Anakin's total turn from the jedi and his trying to kill his best friend."

But this is a really good point. I like this idea too.


"It is a shame there are no scenes of Anakin fighting any Jedi, we only get to see him getting ready to commit the murder of half a dozen or so 7 years olds. "

This is where the whole noir/B&W thing comes in handy. There's nothing saying we can't resequence footage and use it for a completely different purpose. For example, Christopher Lee is a Jedi that comes in to kill the Emperor, and Anakin kills him. Palpatine laughs, "Good Anakin, good!" And we go to the next scene.

This is the most powerful Jedi killing scene I can think of. I'd guess I'd really have to see the vid-game
footage to see whether it'd work or not. In black & white, it may be useful.

"Except that it the city ought to fill up the whole surface except for giant valleys along its surface which are too unstable to build in due to volcanic activity."

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This project would be entirely rooted in the planning, the mapping out of the new history, the new story, what footage will be used, and (most important of all), the new script. If this can be done, (and if an actress can be found for Padme), then there's a very good chance I'll do this, because the major work is not in the execution.

Spence- it'd be great if you could work on a script, along with anyone else that's interested (of course this would include me). The idea of using dialogue and ideas from the novel is a really good idea.

Another good brainstorming idea at this point is to list all of the contradictions we want to eliminate with this movie. A list of all of Obi-Wan's OT dialogue about Anakin and his personality, for instance. And a list of things that are possible to avoid.

For example:

-No midichlorians
-No contradiction when Obi-Wan says, "That boy is our last hope" in Empire

Etc.

You guys have come up with some great ideas so far. I really think that if we bounce ideas off of each other in the forum and work on the script together, then this will be a great movie.

Thanks so much!

-TM

Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side

Emperor Jar-Jar
“Back when we made Star Wars, we just couldn’t make Palpatine as evil as we intended. Now, thanks to the miracles of technology, it is finally possible. Finally, I’ve created the movies that I originally imagined.” -George Lucas on the 2007 Extra Extra Special HD-DVD Edition

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Eliminating contradictions is one thing I had in mind in suggesting Padme leave Anakin. I think it could actually fill in a lot of gaps. I do agree that we would be loosing the tradegy of Anakin being responsible for his wife's death, but in some ways I think it might be worth loosing.

This quote is kind of what gave me the idea,

"I thought... what if Star Wars was originally a noir movie from the '40's and '50's, very old-fashioned and in black & white? Later on in the seventies or eighties, they made the very popular Star Wars trilogy, but this is the original film made a long time ago. Imagine that it's another thing Lucas suppressed!"

Imagine it this way, this old noir film from the 40s or 50s was a tradegy. It had a young hero, Anakin Skywalker, he takes his job very seriously and neglects his wife, not intentionally, he loves her but he is just so caught up in his work. Also he has a ton of respect for his mentor, Palpatine. Palpatine starts to let him on on secrets, how somebody on the inside, somebody on the jedi council, or perhaps all the jedi council, have been manipulating this great intergalactic war that has lasted for years. The whole war is all their doing, perhaps because the law states that during times of war the jedi hold some sort of emergency powers, while at times of peace they are little more than security guards and police officers. Of course he is really being manipulated and the real ones behind the war are the Brotherhood of the Sith. A denomination of he jedi cult who are more free with their emotions where the jedi surpress their emotions. Maybe at this point the jedi doesn't even see the sith as evil, they are merely an unorthodoc version of the jedi. They haven't caused problems, they are force users but they haven't openly used their powers to cause problems. Perhaps a few jedi are weary of them, but as it is they are just a cult. Maybe they even go around doing good deads.

So anyway the story progresses and Anakin is slowly being convinced that the jedi are evil. Meanwhile his wife leaves him. Sometime later something comes up that convinces him that his closest friend Obi-Wan stole her away from him. this turns him more from the jedi. He joins the sith, and at this point they tell him more secrets, that there is a big plot to over through the jedi and end this war forever. The sith could start a war against the jedi, our story could end in a tragic showdown between two best friends, Anakin and Obi-wan. Obi-wan, to his own remorse defeats Anakin. The story, being a tradegy could end with the death of our hero, and then give an epilogue of how the Sith Lords after a long war with the jedi, destroyed them all and took rule over the galaxy.

Now many, many years later you want to make a sequel to this movie, but the first one was pretty closed ended. What do you do? Well the main character's wife left him, lets say she was pregnant at the time. There is our protagonist right there. We need an antagonist, he could be one of these sith lords, maybe not many of them are left, perhaps they all killed each other off. (remember, it is mentioned that Vader is the last of their kind). Also we need somebody to give guidance to our young protagonist, maybe Anakin's best friend lived and has been watching over him since his mother died and he had to go to live with her only living relatives. Everything from Star Wars (except for Obi-wan killing Anakin) fits perfectly, even though we have information gaps, we don't have near as many plot holes.

second sequel, it turns out another jedi lived the sith war against the jedi, and that Darth Vader is really Anakin and he didn't die after all.
Third sequel, we find out that Leia is Luke's sister and that Anakin's wife had twins. Obi-wan knew the Sith Lord Palpatine knew Anakin was very powerful in the force and that it would have been passed on genetically if he were to have children. Perhaps the sith are very misogynistic or something so Obi-wan takes the male to live with her relatives where just in case the Sith Lord looks up Padme in search of new apprintices.

And this is just off the top of my head, but it is amazing how many plot holes you can fill if the story is completly redone rather than trying to do minor re-edits to the existing prequels. I think having Padme live makes Return of the Jedi's "do you remember your mother", "she died when I was very young" and "I never knew my mother" work much better.

Sorry for my long post, I'm afraid I don't have time to make it shorter.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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OK, I'm liking these ideas, C3PX. Although I did like my idea of Padme following Anakin to the volcanic area and witnessing him killing the Nemoidians. And her subsequent death. But you're right that allowing her to live will eliminate the contradiction with Leia.

What I do want to make sure happens, though, is that we have some kind of sequence where we see the effects of the Dark Side on Anakin's personal life. The bars, the drinking, the neglecting his wife, and so on. Of course, this can only be effective (and heart-wrenching) if we set up that Anakin is a good, loving person beforehand. Before he starts being bad, as it were. It is always horrifying to the audience when you set up that someone is a good guy, and then you show them doing bad things. There is no transition in ROTS. I know a lot of people have made fun of this, but it's true. Anakin is a good person all the way up until the fight with Windu, and then he's off to go killing children. Obviously this is stupid. We need some steps in-between, more seduction by Palpatine, an illustration of how Anakin is changing (and becoming bad). Then, he makes the critical decision to intervene in the fight with Windu. Then, we see a sequence or montage of him killing Jedi. This sequence would end with him beheading the Christopher Lee Jedi and having Palpatine laugh in his chair. Only then could we possibly show him killing the children.

So I agree that this should be about a good man that made the wrong choices, but I don't like George's idea that Anakin was the victim and he did it all out of love. Darth Vader picked the Dark Side because he liked it and it was FUN. And he got immediate gratification and powers he never knew he had.

So the list (as to why this is better than the existing PT story) so far is:

-No contradiction when Ben says, "That boy is our last hope."
-No contradiction when Leia remembers her mother
-No plot hole where Anakin comes from Tatooine and Luke gets sent to Tatooine
-No midichlorians
-Anakin doesn't build C3PO
-No CG yoda whatsoever. As originally conceived, Yoda is the little man on the side of the road that you listen to, and then find out he's not who you thought he was
-No Chewbacca/Yoda relationship
-No Jar-Jar
-No General Grievous
-No whining Anakin
-We lose a myriad of other problems and bad memories associated with the existing PT


Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side

Emperor Jar-Jar
“Back when we made Star Wars, we just couldn’t make Palpatine as evil as we intended. Now, thanks to the miracles of technology, it is finally possible. Finally, I’ve created the movies that I originally imagined.” -George Lucas on the 2007 Extra Extra Special HD-DVD Edition

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Originally posted by: Trooperman
Only then could we possibly show him killing the children.


I still don't know about the children killing scene, even if it is only implied and not shown I think it was in bad taste that George ever put that in their. Especially when you consider the childish roots this is coming from with Episode I's Jar jar. I really don't think the children killing scene would have appeared in a 40s or 50s noir film.

I was wondering if you had anything in mind about the Chancellor/Palpatine/Sith Lord. How are you going to work out the whole force lightning messed up face thing? I really think george was heading in the right direction in Episode two where he had him looking really old, it would make sense that if he were a very old man in ROTS that 20 years later he would look nearly like a walking corps. I think he should either have the messed up face to start with, or he should remain with a normal face. However, I am not sure if this could be possible, because there is good footage of his looking both ways. For instance the Mace killing scene he has the messed up face, and in the Christopher Lee killing scene he is normal. And I think you are right in saying that that is the perfect Jedi killing scene. I wish it wasn't the only good one. Mace's death is pretty pathetic. I also really like the idea of no Yoda until ESB.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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how would we show him getting depressed, drinking bars? is there some film noir we can find with a character in it that looks at all like Anakin?

Another idea i was thinking is maybe adding some Blade Runner scenes to it. That's a good sci-fi film noir.

I know it's undecided about the video game scenes, but the Anakin/Windu fight plays much better in the cut scenes and its a lot less instantaneous a change.
I'm always looking to trade my edits, if you don't want to get them from a torrent. PM or e-mail!