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Star Wars Prologue - Epic Prequel Edit (Released) — Page 7

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TV's Frink said:

Incidentally, if this hasn't been made quite clear yet, there's no way this could ever be approved on FE.org due to the problems with the narrative.

Pffft, as if he'd even want it there. This masterpiece is way too good for that lemming site, doncha know?

Every 27th customer will get a ball-peen hammer, free!

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Akwat Kbrana said:

TV's Frink said:

Incidentally, if this hasn't been made quite clear yet, there's no way this could ever be approved on FE.org due to the problems with the narrative.

Pffft, as if he'd even want it there. This masterpiece is way too good for that lemming site, doncha know?

Of course he wouldn't want it there.  In fact, he'd probably try to find some way to prevent it.  But once something is released to the public, it belongs to the public (Hi Lucas!), and if it were good enough I'd recommend it be included on FE.org so more people would have access to it.

But yeah, everyone is a bunch of lemmings.  Except for the people on his site - they don't follow anyone blindly at all, do they?

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TV's Frink said:

CP3S said:

Moth3r said:

TheBoost said:

Lastly, the credits end with a title card that says if you don't like this edit, you're a lemming. Dude really likes that word.

 

Seriously? Hahaha!!! I really want this thing now! Sounds like "The Room" of prequel fan edits.

If only it was that entertaining.  This is just a confused mess.

Confused Mess?

Definitely sounds like 'The Room'

<span style=“font-weight: bold;”>The Most Handsomest Guy on OT.com</span>

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 (Edited)

TV's Frink said:

TV's Frink said:

2) There is no explanation of how Obi figures out to go to Kamino. None. He takes the dart to the analysis droids, they tell him pretty much nothing, and suddenly he's in the library trying to find Kamino (which of course he names without any previous reference to it).

From the edit detail page:

- "Kamino" (in Aurabesh type) is now seen flashing on the computer display during the Jedi temple analysis scene. We also hear a results tone before the reveal.

I see.  We are required to know how to read Aurabesh in order to follow a major plot point.  And the "results tone" is supposedly meant to clue us in.

This seems like something Lucas would have changed.

Good god almighty, why couldn't he just, oh I don't know..... re-dub the damn droid to say that the dart is from Kamino?

:P

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 (Edited)

Full disclosure on the Kamino thing...it sounds as if the DVD version makes an attempt to correct it. This is from a thread started there yesterday, most of which is off-topic for this thread and I will address in our off-topic thread here.

...in AM's edit the computer speaks "KAMINO" in ENGLISH.
at the end of the scan, there is both a computer-generated voice and a visual display. By the way, if you were watching with the sound down, you would still see that in the subtitles
I am watching the .avi version from 2009, and I just double-checked it. There is no computer voice saying "Kamino," and the display is indeed in Aurabesh. I watched on a phone player that may not display subtitles correctly, but I didn't see any evidence of subtitles. My criticism of this scene stands for the .avi.

The DVD may be a different story.

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I downloaded the DVD a few weeks ago. Haven't had a chance to watch it yet outside of scanning to see the Jar Jar removal, which as has been noted, is truly impressive.

But to this point about Frink having his head up his ass. I have only played the DVD on my computer which can be funny with subtitles, but playing through my computer there are absolutely no subtitles. Perhaps when I watch on my TV they'll pop-up.

Either way, just after the scanner completes its rotation there is a computer blip sound which a sci-fi fan would normally conclude is the sound of a computer completing it's analysis. Just after that computer blip there is a very soft computerized voice that almost whispers "kamino". The computerized effect is very heavy, and though well done, it is done in a way which really obscures the clarity of the word Kamino. If I had never heard the word Kamino before there is no way I'd have caught it, and even though I was looking for it I didn't realize I'd heard it until a few seconds afterwards and so had to scan back to double-check it. Ultimately, because it is so soft, and so digitized, it blends into the existing audio and is easily mistaken as just ambient computer sounds, a continuation of the scanning complete beep.

My guess is that the AVI that Frink watched probably really does have it, but he just didn't notice it because it is so exceedingly subtle. 

In the bigger picture of this being the piece that solves the puzzle, it just doesn't make sense for a few reasons.

First, within the scene itself, it plays out like this:

  • dart is placed in scanner, scanner rotates and completes scan.
  • As camera begins to pan across to the computer screen, there is a scan complete audio signal and then digital voice whispers it's line and then the droid begins speaking. The result of this combination, (assuming you hear Kamino):
  • "Kamino""markings cannot be identified. As you can see on your screen, probably self-made by a warrior, not associated with any known society."

 

If this is supposed to be a replacement way to tell the Prequels, assuming the viewer knows nothing, we hear some word which makes no sense (but later finds out is a planet), and then the droid tells us that it knows nothing about it. At this point we already have two huge problems, on one hand, if you've never seen the movie before, the word Kamino is delivered without context, not 'planet kamino' just kamino, immediately followed by the droid clearly stating it has no idea where the dart comes from, and that it's society is unknown. If you don't know what Kamino is, the take away from the scene is that the droid had nothing useful for Obi-Wan. On the other hand, if you do somehow hear the word kamino and comprehend that it's a planet, the droid then says it doesn't know anything about it. So which is it? Do you know where it is, or don't you? How can you know it's from Kamino, yet not know what society it comes from? If it is unique enough to be identified as originating on Kamino, you obviously know SOMETHING about Kamino and the society which made it.

So, let's assume that we have heard the word Kamino and understood that this was a planet, and ignored the conflicting information about not knowing anything about the society that made it. The next scene is Obi-Wan in the library looking for Kamino. He already appears to know where Kamino is supposed to be, yet it's not there. This presents us a number of jumbled issues. Why does he know the location of it? Without Mel.. er, Dex telling him it's near the Rishi maze, Obi-Wan shouldn't know where Kamino should be, unless it's a known system. Yet it can't be a known system because nobody has heard of it, which is reinforced by the fact that nobody is surprised that it's not in the database. Which leads to an even bigger problem, and why I'm not a fan of any edit which tries to use the analysis droid as the key to revealing 'Kamino' in combination with the library scene: how can the droid know about Kamino, yet the library have no record of it? Now if the scanner pulls it's data from the Jedi Archives, it should NOT be able to recognize that the dart is from 'Kamino' because as we learn, Kamino has been deleted from the archives. However, if the analysis droid and it's computers are accessing a different database of any kind that understands/recognizes Kamino, the fact it's missing from the Jedi Archive is an even bigger WTF because their own droids seem to know Kamino, which makes the Younglings scene even more pointless than it already is. If one database says "Kamino" and another has no entry for Kamino, OBVIOUSLY something has been deleted.

Obi-Wan looks like an even bigger idiot in this version than he does in the theatrical version because more than ever, it emphasis that the youngling scene should have been "Master Yoda, I've just discovered that a system has been erased from the Jedi Archive, we have a big problem" but instead we were given, "I'm looking for a planet that we know exists, but for some reason isn't on this here 3-D galaxy-Garmon that I checked out from the library. Did someone forget to download the latest interstellar map? What was that Liam? Oh... yes, I guess that makes more sense, someone deleted it.. got it. By the way, Master Yoda, did you get my application to be a Jedi Master? Because catch on pretty quick."

No matter how you slice it up, this sequence is a complete failure. The audio, while well-made, is difficult to recognize without knowing about it beforehand, but even if it is noticed, it contradicts everything that Anti-Matter left in, starting with the very line from the analysis droid that follows the declaration that this dart is from A KNOWN PLANET. From there it only spirals more and more out of control/sanity. It makes the already terrible flaws of the Obi-Sleuth-Kenobi sub-plot even worse.

All-in-all, this is the type of thing that would/should have been pointed out had this edit had the benefit of a strong preview audience/fanediting community.

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Thanks L8.

I'll have to watch the scene yet again on the .avi and see if I can hear anything this time.

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 (Edited)

I watched the scene again tonight and the line "Kamino" is indeed there.  Of course, not expecting it, I didn't hear it right the first time...I thought it said "computer."  But whatever, it doesn't really matter, as L8 described above.

At any rate, I finally finished this 3 hour beast.  Ugh, what a waste of time.  Benja was right, the second half is really brutal.  Things just kind of happen, with no real explanation of what is going on.  And honestly, I was a little surprised to discover that the last hour or so is actually kind of boring, given that most of the action is gone.  I don't expect wall-to-wall action, but something other than one crappy lightsaber battle between Windu and Palps (especially given that it is the finale in this movie) would have been nice.

Random observation: when Anakin is on Tatooine, racing to save his mother, we get a few flashes of Anakin and his mother from Ep1.  I can buy this, except the last flash is of Qui-Gon dying in Obi-Wan's arms.  What?  How does this relate in any way to Anakin going to find his mother?  And why would Anakin have a memory of this?  It's just...baffling.

The end is truly horrible as others have noted.  We are meant to wonder if Dooku becomes Vader.  But whatever you think of that idea, the movie just stops, rather than ends.  As someone else said, it's like Antimatter ran out of ideas and just threw in a few scenes of Vader at the end.  And instead of Sidious and Anakin being left to take over the galaxy, we get Sidious, Anakin, and Dooku in the room at the same time.  So...what happened next?  Um, apparently something off-camera again.  I guess we are supposed to use our imagination to decide if Dooku killed Anakin, or Anakin killed Dooku, or...honestly, what's the point?

Incidentally, I found this "defense" of the ending by VFlix on their website:

AM would be the first person to acknowledge that his ending for the Prologue is a legitimate point of contention. In fact, he was the first person. [see http://digital-fanedits.com/index.php/Star-Wars-Prologue/Star-Wars-Prologue-Wrap.html] He wanted the ending to be a radical departure from expectation, and it is.  He wanted people to feel shocked or confused before continuing with Episode IV, and they are. There isn't any argument about the ending that I'm aware of. I've never read or heard anyone say that they "enjoyed" or "loved" the end of the movie. I usually hear things like "disappointing" or "confusing" or "interesting." AM might well be the only person on the planet who truly understands and enjoys his ending, but that doesn't mean the rest of us can't enjoy the other 2 hours and 50 minutes of his work.

That link takes you to an article by Antimatter that includes this:

The title for this section was inspired by the comments of Benja, one of four people at Digital Fanedits asked to review an early test cut of the movie. He likened the experience to a pleasant ride that ends in a sudden, horrific crash. Well, it goes without saying that I enjoy my new Star Wars prequel film, but I am biased and have the luxury of full insight. I know precisely what was changed and why, and I know how to interpret the movie for my own enjoyment. Star Wars Prologue is a very different kind of edit, and it will not appeal to many fans—particularly fans who want or expect the type of closure afforded in Episode III. Viewers are more likely to enjoy my movie if they can get past their familiarity with the original prequel films. Thus, I would not recommend this edit to someone who has already embraced the prequels.

The Prologue is my replacement for Episodes I, II and III partly because it delivers the kind of ending that I favor going into the original trilogy. The all important Episode V reveal is again cool and meaningful because the Prologue never identifies Darth Vader. In fact, the movie leaves good reason to suppose that Anakin may have been betrayed or deceived by Palpatine in the final moments, in full congruence with Episode IV.

These defenses of the ending don't strike me as particularly effective.

Final rating?  4 gaping plot holes out of 10.  And that's giving 2 holes for the rotoscoping and 2 for the video quality.  If I had to rate it on the spambot-established four ball scale, I would only be able to give it one ball - I round down for edits made by delusional egomaniacs.

I called 1-800-Lemming to express my dissatisfaction with the edit, as suggested in the last end credit.  Unfortunately, the very nice person on the other end of the line was also banned from their website because he only gave it a 9 out of 10.

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Master Qui-Gon said:


Ehm how to get the edit? When I open the link to digital-fanedits.com,

a white blank page appears.


It means they are blocking your IP address. I experience the same thing.

My Complete Fanedit List @ IFDB

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thunderclap said:

 

Master Qui-Gon said:


Ehm how to get the edit? When I open the link to digital-fanedits.com,

a white blank page appears.


It means they are blocking your IP address. I experience the same thing.

 

Welcome to the lemming club! =)

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 (Edited)

TV's Frink said:

 

He wanted people to feel shocked or confused before continuing with Episode IV, and they are. There isn't any argument about the ending that I'm aware of. I've never read or heard anyone say that they "enjoyed" or "loved" the end of the movie. I usually hear things like "disappointing" or "confusing" or "interesting." AM might well be the only person on the planet who truly understands and enjoys his ending, but that doesn't mean the rest of us can't enjoy the other 2 hours and 50 minutes of his work.

That link takes you to an article by Antimatter that includes this:

...Viewers are more likely to enjoy my movie if they can get past their familiarity with the original prequel films. Thus, I would not recommend this edit to someone who has already embraced the prequels.

The all important Episode V reveal is again cool and meaningful because the Prologue never identifies Darth Vader.

These defenses of the ending don't strike me as particularly effective.

Interesting defense... but if this is meant for people who don't have 'familiarity' with the prequals, absolutlely nothing would make sense. Characters and situations aren't explained or even identified.

A blank slate watching this before watching SW, ESB, and ROTJ, would have no idea who Vader is, nor any reason to suspect Dooku was Vader, or Anakin. A question they may ask is "who was Dooku again?" since he does practically nothing in The Prologue.

During the reveal in ESB, the reaction would be "But how does that revelation match the Prologue I watched? I hope they make a prequal to explain it."

So anyone watching Prologue first would KNOW Obi is lying about his student Vader betraying and murdering Anakin... or at least boggled wonder who the hell is Vader, since they just watched the Prologue and he's not in it except for one nonsensical appearance in the first third.

That first defense reminds me of people saying that in AOTC Lucas wanted wooden acting, no chemistry, and bad dialogue.  Because that's how serials were, or that's how teenagers talk, or because the romance was destined to fail.