Star Wars 1977 70mm sound mix recreation [stereo and 5.1 versions now available] (Released) — Page 3

No heavy bass there in the '97.

I am sure this audio track is going to sound great! I'm looking forward to apply this to the "GOUT", if the audio samples you posted is any indication it looks like it will be the definitive track imo. :)

I think this will be my definitive version also.  I'll most likely watch the movie with this track from now on, unless I want to hear the mono mix once in a while.  It is a definite improvement over the one I made last year--quite aside from having much greater theatrical authenticity in removing the '93 additions, the boom track is significantly improved, in synch and in level balance.  I would recommend that anyone who has that version replace it with this one, frankly.

As far as Empire and Jedi go, my previous versions of them sound rather good, I think.  While not strictly authentic to any official release, coming from the '93 remixes and the special edition LFE channels (and Jedi has the deleted music from Ben's scene on Dagobah reinserted), the overall effect works very well.  I don't actually have them in 5.1 format or I'd upload them myself, but they can be found on dark_jedi's versions or perhaps can be provided by Satanika, assuming he still has them.  I may revisit Empire for the sake of replacing the hacked up music cues, but I haven't decided for sure yet.  Without actual recordings as we have for Star Wars, recreating the 70mm mixes of Empire and Jedi can't be done precisely, so hybrid versions are the best bet.  Obviously I like mine, although other approaches could be taken.

I would recommend against using the SE mixes to synch with the originals, because as tempting as it might be to have discrete 5.1, they often place undue emphasis on flashy and distracting surround effects.  Not only are these not necessary, they are consistently too loud compared to the rest of the sound, and I think in general there was a lapse of creative good judgement involved.  But then, that's true of the SE's as a whole.

Bummer, so my dream of hearing ROTJ (with GOUT style footage) again in the six channel stereo remains just a dream...

I think I'm finally finished!  Preliminary listening indicates that the latest edit of the LFE track is a success--I just want to give it one final listen at a high volume level to make sure everything is as it should be.  Probably could have released this already and it would have been great, but I didn't want to do that until I was completely satisfied.

Once it gets uploaded, it's off to Satanika for upmixing and LFE replacement, and then hopefully this will be available very soon!  I imagine stereo PCM and 5.1 AC3 would be the most desirable, but is there any call for a DTS version also?

I don't want to sound as though I'm 'tooting my own horn' as it were, but I really do think this is probably the best-sounding version of the film that will be available until the actual 70mm mix makes it out of the vault (or some audio pro makes a more polished version of what I've done).

Will these be released on the groups?

Thanks for all the time put into it, can't wait to take a listen.

I cranked it up this afternoon and played my current 2.1 file upmixed with Neo:6 by the receiver.  My lady friend gave it a listen with me--I'm so fortunate that she is understanding/tolerant of my audio habit!--and she pointed out that the bass was still a little bit too loud in a couple places.  The one I've been the most worried about being potentially excessive is the Star Destroyer going overhead in the beginning, because I made huge increase to the LFE volume compared to what is on the SE (+12 db, 4 to compensate for the difference in average volume between the '93 and '97 mixes, and the other 8 because it was just inexplicably subdued).  But she said that part sounded perfect as I currently have it; the problems tended to be with Millennium Falcon flybys.  Many of them were spot-on, but she was right that I had occasionally still overestimated how much bass was actually needed.  So there's still a little more tweaking left to be done.  I don't know why the SE versions have the Star Destroyer's signature 40 hz rumble at such a reduced volume compared even to the quieter shots of the Falcon; the sense of proportion is all out of whack.

This sort of thing can be pretty subjective, of course, and it depends a lot on room acoustics and subwoofer and listening position placement.  But rest assured that this is about 99% finished.  I will be making my files available on sendspace, since I have trouble with newsgroups, but they may find their way there also.

Right now we're getting ready to see Iron Man--there's a double feature of the first film at 9pm and the new one at midnight, so we are very excited for that. :)

Wow this sounds like a fantastic project, and must have taken a LOT of work/man hours to do! If only Lucasfilm would put as much LOVE into the originals films as is displayed almost daily on this forum we'd all be happy! My 'goto' mixes for the film have been the 1985 LD version (which I uploaded years back as seventiesfilmnut), and the mono version on Puggo's fab 16mm version, but this sounds like it could be THE version to listen to for ultimate fidelity.

Just one thing, you mention you used the LFE from the SE's? One thing which REALLY bugged me about the SE remix (aside from all the SE additions of course!) was the digital distortion one can clearly hear during the conference room force choke scene. The bass has been pumped up so much that it distorts during this scene - I remember thinking that it was just the speakers in the cinema (Odeon, Leicester Square) not being able to take the volume. However when I got the SE LD set when that first came out I was disappointed to find out the distortion was actually on the remix. Do you know if the SE bass distortion in on your new version? Sorry it's a minor comment to make, but for me it would make the difference between a v.good release and a perfect one ;)

Can't wait to hear more of this release, and thank you for all your hard work :)

- NH

Now that you mention that I do recall it having been pointed on the forum in the past--guess it must have been you.  ;)  Although I have to admit I'm a bit bewildered by it because I have yet to hear any kind of distortion during that scene, although perhaps I simply haven't known what to listen for.  The LFE is at a rather low level on the '97 5.1 that I have; if there is distortion in the bass it must be a defect of the recording, though whether it is a degraded source flaw or they messed up in the remix I don't know.

Maybe the distortion actually occurs in the main channels?  I'll have to listen to it again more closely, but it is worth noting that the force choke sound effects in the mains have little resemblance to the "wind-like" sound that all the original mixes featured.  Hmm . . .

Its definately a fault on the remix. It was also there in the broadcast versions of the SE, as well as the NTSC and PAL laserdiscs too. I think Ben Burtt just got a little too bass happy and cranked it up too much so that it JUST distorted in a few places. Interestingly it's gone again in the 2004 DVDs if I remember correctly (one of the few things they DID get right!). I've only ever listened to all of them in two channels so as you suggested must be the main channels only? My personal preference for this is the 1985 LD release - the LF rumble is there but not in your face like the 1997 remix.

You're right--I just listened to that scene on the '97 SE and there is definitely distortion going on, especially just after Vader says, "I find your lack of faith disturbing".  Yuck!  It sounds like garbled low frequency static or something, I don't know, but it's nasty.  Reminds me of turning up the volume way too loud on crappy tv speakers, except it's just in that one sound effect.  Bizarre . . .

It's also definitely a main channel thing, because I heard it listening on headphones, and the LFE track is discarded without a subwoofer being present.

So the good news is that my version will definitely not sound like that, because its main channels are primarily from the '93 mix, which does not exhibit anything resembling this distortion, and I don't think the LFE portion has that problem.

If you like the '85 mix, you're in luck, because the overall sound of this should be very familiar, with improved dynamic range and bass extension, and just a few minor differences in sound effects.  I grew up with the '85 mix on vhs, and I have no trouble accepting this version as completely authentic.

And . . . that's all, folks!

I am now absolutely, 100% finished.  Everything in the mix sounds as good as I can make it, exactly as it should or as close to that as it can with the tools and level of skill available to me.  It's such a relief to be done!

The proper files should be uploaded shortly.

I am pleased to announce that the stereo version is now available!  For smaller file size and therefore faster upload/download speed, I converted the track into a FLAC using maximum compression, and then split it into a six-part RAR.

My AC3 encoder needs wav files to work from, so keep that in mind if you want to go that route.  A high-bitrate AC3 will offer much of the sound quality of PCM while allowing more disc space and bandwidth for the video, though you are welcome to use the uncompressed audio directly if you wish.  For best results, avoid using any dynamic range compression settings and do not adjust the dialnorm (it should be left at -31).

Part one: http://www.sendspace.com/file/efonsr

Part two: http://www.sendspace.com/file/c62qjm

Part three: http://www.sendspace.com/file/iqwit0

Part four: http://www.sendspace.com/file/rk7p55

Part five: http://www.sendspace.com/file/iypdet

Part six: http://www.sendspace.com/file/q5g9be

While the stereo version sounds excellent, if you have the proper setup you should definitely be on the lookout for the 5.1 version, in order to take advantage of the extra bass content--an important part of the 70mm experience.  It should hopefully be available soon.

Thanks hairy for the links, sounds great, but can't wait for a 5.1 version.

lol!

I hope you'll like it, it is definitely the one I prefer hearing by far.  It's not entirely perfect, of course, because sometimes the replacement 35mm sections may stand out a bit due to the difference in imaging from the '93 mix, at least if you're listening really closely, but I did as much as I could with them.  Some of them I wouldn't even know had been replaced if I hadn't actually done them myself and heard it so many times.

Jus in case anyone wants to upmix it to 5.1 themselves using their own method, here is the LFE channel to go along with it: http://www.sendspace.com/file/z84i3d

Tomorrow I am flying across the country to see my sister's graduation, so I might be offline for a little while.  But please feel free to post your impressions, and what sort of sound system you're playing it with--I would love to hear from anyone who obtains this mix.

It occurs to me that, given Lucasfilm's reticence to give a proper version of the OT, and the distinct possibility that they wouldn't release the 70mm mix even if they did, this could actually be rather important from the historical/preservation aspect, aside from just having the best-sounding version available.  I don't say that to flatter myself, but because their refusal to do right by these important films is very disturbing.

Thanks, I think that made my day to hear how much you've enjoyed listening to this soundtrack.  You're right that the addition of LFE helps to mask the reduction in dynamics during some of the 35mm replacement sections.  I'm glad to hear that the sound editing is not distracting; the ultimate goal of this project is to create as seamless and enjoyable a movie experience as possible, not just to be 'hey look how much better it is now!' which seemed to be a major part of the thought behind the SE's whether they realised it or not.  I've really appreciated your encouragement as I've worked on this, and I'm glad the results are everything you hoped for.  Sorry to hear about your receiver--but then, maybe it's an opportunity to get an even better one!  ;)

Obviously this couldn't have been done without the prior work of Belbecus, for giving us the GOUT-synched laserdisc PCM tracks, and making the 70mm recording/1993 mix comparison (thanks Moth3r for uploading that).  Darth Editous provided the 1997 5.1 mix, which resulted in a considerable improvement in the LFE channel over simply using the 2004 version as I had previously done.  And of course Satanika for doing the upmixing, and sharing various mixes that I had not been able to obtain before.

I've got the upmix on my hard drive, but for some reason its playback volume is lower than the source files, so once I get back home to my 5.1 setup I'll give it a more detailed listen and try to figure out why that is.

I have just listened to the 5.1 upmix and it sounds fantastic, really really nice work satanika!

Is the volume coming out the same as the stereo version when you play it in 5.1, dark_jedi?

hairy_hen said:

Is the volume coming out the same as the stereo version when you play it in 5.1, dark_jedi?

Not sure yet but I sent you a PM, once I get that part figured out I will test it out for you ASAP.

Just wanted to say a huge THANK YOU to hairy_hen for this release - was listening to it on my iPod late last night and instantly felt transported back all those years. Great job and I think you did the best work possible with the source files at hand - I could barely tell the joins, if at all.

It's been quite a Star Wars week already with ABC's terrific soundtrack releases, Adywan annoucing the De-SE'd Empire and this soundtrack. IF only Lucasfilm would show as much love and talent in their own releases ;)

Thanks again :)