Sign In

Sorcerer - William Friedkin 1977 vs Wages of Fear - European theatrical release. Discussion

Replies
30
Author
Time

Right, I know very little about this film. I am from the UK and we have never had a proper release of this film in the UK apart from the re-cut version which was made for most of the rest of the world upon theatrical release.

The release of the new Blu-ray supervised by Friedkin is apparently very good. But apparently it’s not without it’s faults.

One particular gripe is the subtitles not being literal translations of what is actually being said or spoken. And the subtitles are also not the original subtitles font that were used at the time of the films creation.

The French blu-ray version is a slightly better bitrate but has no English subtitles. The US release has Subtitles burned in and re-cap that the translation is not literally correct in a few instances.

With that said the theatrical re-cut version made for outside the US is unavailable on home video and although it has some poor editing. It includes 16 minutes of extra footage not to be found in the US theatrical release amongst some further plot points. Apparently there is also some improved music cues also.

This was shown on a channel in Germany called “Das Vierte” in February 2008.

http://www.movie-censorship.com/report.php?ID=4978

Now I have never seen the film before. But it’s nice to find a film that peaks my interest.

If someone interested could obtain the European cut for a preservation as It seems that it is targeted for being erased from history. It’s hard to find anything out about it. And I do not particularly trust everything I read on movie-censorship as they always ignore the audio which is a huge part of any film.

Many people also claim to prefer the re-cut over Friedkin’s official version, due to a slow and stagnant first hour until the plot get’s underway proper.

There is also Friedkin’s complaint about the aspect ratio of the film. He himself personally said his preference was the Pan and Scan version now he calls it an abomination because you can get 16:9 TV’s so the original framing on the old DVD which also somehow managed to be released alongside the Blu-ray and got recalled.

Anyway I hope this generates some interesting discussion with a hope to saving whatever the European cut might have to offer.

I would imagine that “Sorcerer” the original cut has never been submitted to the BBFC for a age rating and that the Ludicrous PG rating would be chewed up and spat out.

http://www.melonfarmers.co.uk/hitsw.htm

It would only cost £981.31 inc VAT to submit the film for classification. Why so tight?

A bit more information regarding the court case. CIC (Cinema International Corporation) Held the international rights to the film but they went through numerous take over bids. Friedkin never had final cut outside the US and French Markets. CIC re-cut the film for the international market but since their takeover this left the ownership rights hanging in Limbo. This is when Friedkin sued for who owned the film and asked for detailed information on how much the film actually grossed financially on international market that he had no profits from.

Viacom / Paramount would seem to be the Legal Owners of the European / international Theatrical Version. Weird that they really could not decide who owned the film or perhaps Universal has rights to the European release. God only knows what a mess. Who owns the other cut?

I am also reading reports of an added gunshot totally and tonally out of place ruining the ending of the film. Friedkin claims it’s a diesel engine back firing. It was never in the original film.

also this.

Did anyone else notice that they cut the sound altogether for a split second, when the Amidou character fell between the slats on the bridge and into the water? It didn’t happen on the DVD, but I thought it was really effective to be honest.

This post has been edited.

Author
Time

The German broadcast of the Wages Of Fear cut, titled Atemlos Vor Angst, was actually capped and made its way online. It’s dubbed in German, and the titles have been changed/localised too, but it’s interesting to see the differences.

As far as I’m aware, the only official video release of this cut is a Finnish VHS released in the early 1980s under the name Pelon Palkka (http://www.fixgalleria.net/release.php?id=6946), which unlike the German broadcast, has the original audio, albeit with burnt-in Finnish subtitles. More info at OFDB: http://www.ofdb.de/view.php?page=fassung&fid=9321&vid=275128 I’ve not been able to find a copy though.

I heard a release similar to the French edition was being planned by eOne in the UK last year but this has failed to materialise. Maybe they’re waiting for the 40th anniversary next year? Friedkin will sue the face off anyone who tries to officially release the shorter version now his original cut has been restored.

Author
Time

Hmmm to reconstruct a Uk theatrical release it would need the German Broadcast and that Finnish VHS audio.

Friedkin, to be honest I don’t know much about him or this film but he is one of those tinkerers who likes to mess with his films. Yet he is slamming the other cut and doing the same himself what a hypocrite.

The European or international cut despite the Flashbacks instead of prologue would be the proper extended cut of the film. as far as movie censorship report goes for the Tangerine dream tracks, 4 tracks seem to be omitted due to scenes being cut short. Considering the film is hailed for it’s wonderful soundtrack this is a real shame. It’s not like it would not be against Friedkin’s morals to restore those cut’s and the music, if you are going to tinker with the film at least tinker with it in a way that would actually restore something rather than change it.

Furthermore there was a 16mm scan done by someone I came across a site showing some pictures and saw the original subtitles briefly there.

https://sorcerer1977.wordpress.com/about/

Again let me re-itterate I have not seen this film so I have little knowledge only what I am reading on the internet.

Friedkin is not sueing anybody the case was withdrawn before a proper trial ensued.

UPDATE

I have just seen it, I streamed the film as I did not feel like paying £70.00 to see it.

I am going to give a small review.

It’s a good slow burner. And I can see how it’s labelled classic but by no means is it a masterpiece.

It is all very clear that the some scenes from the German version are missing from the film where we have abrupt cuts. Although if the report from movie censorship is accurate then at least 2 shots have been included that were not in the DVD version. which I would identify as rope on the bridge snapping and the truck wheel blowing out on the mountain top.

The Subtitles are awful looking. And the translation is sparce. So far as the french translation goes it seems only one word is missing when he shouts in the office. The Spanish translation is almost lazy and chooses to skip over many of the people speaking in Spanish or Spanish dialogue.

I could understand some of the Spanish being spoken but for someone who has no knowledge of the language it would get confusing.

I honestly cannot tell you any names of any of the characters in this film because they never really speak to each other.

I think it is a good film but also I feel it really fails in a lot of ways and I also think William Friedkin tried to make Roy Scheider less of the main character in some respects when looking at the German version report from movie censorship as they all more or less revolve around Roy Sheider. William Friedkin also claims that he wished he had got Steve McQueen instead.

It does get gripping but it’s a bit dismal and none of the characters really get developed enough even though we are not meant to care about them. It’s one big stitch up and that does come across in a strong way. That everyone in this film is screwing someone over and the reason you end up in this sort of place is because they have been screwed over and screwed others over and this is where these types can only really go to hide.

All in all I’d like to see the other cut or a mixture of both with better subtitles. This film could be better with a bit more TLC.

The main flaws reside in Wanting to diminish Roy Scheider to not being the main Character
Not enough character interaction
Translating selective Dialogue not for the benefit of the Audience
Abrubt choppy video editing a various points
Abrupt music editing.

Plus points

some stunning cinematography
some good use of music
Mean and gritty / raw and believeanle
2nd half is much better

5/10

I would be interested in doing something with this film because I feel it has unlocked potential. Send me a PM if you are interested in it and wish to share some ideas. Would be interested in a preservation of the other international cut. But my ideas have definitely become broader.

Some further information I have garnered is there is a missing scene regarding Leaving the note for the other truck to find. Which featured in a one release.

There is a sub-plot missing that Nilo the Hit man is ill perhaps malaria.(unconfirmed)

There should be a shot where the truck is shown through the view of a telescopic sight before the trucks wheel get’s blown out.

Movie Script
https://issuu.com/lafamiliafilm/docs/sorcerer__8-1-1975_

This post has been edited.

Author
Time

It’s also worth noting that the original film, Wages of Fear, was heavily edited for U.S. release. I don’t know if this version ever made it to home video.

Author
Time

Criterion sorted that out it was one of their first Blu-rays.

I changed my mind I give sorcerer 6/10 now.

I really want to see it with all the 16 minutes footage re-inserted correctly and the extra music to see if it would work better (I think it would work much better TBH).

Each Prologue should have been separated by the characters name as a chapter header. I really think something as small as that would help it out a lot too. One of the main problems is they have different fake names when they get to Vera Cruz and it’s hard to follow who they were and who they are pretending to be now. This really does not help on a first viewing. I don’t know, all I know is that I could not grasp the names of the characters on a first viewing.

Having at least one name to cling to could be just the ticket. I also thought about the alternative as showing each characters fake passport before their prologues with their fake names and their mugshot.

This post has been edited.

Author
Time

Ronster said:
Each Prologue should have been separated by the characters name as a chapter header. I really think something as small as that would help it out a lot too. One of the main problems is they have different fake names when they get to Vera Cruz and it’s hard to follow who they were and who they are pretending to be now. This really does not help on a first viewing. I don’t know, all I know is that I could not grasp the names of the characters on a first viewing.

Having at least one name to cling to could be just the ticket. I also thought about the alternative as showing each characters fake passport before their prologues with their fake names and their mugshot.

I’ve seen this masterpiece quite a few times since my teens, sadly not in the theater but on TV and VHS onward to the Blu-ray, and I’m not a native English/French/Spanish speaker, but I’ve never had problems following the story. It’s meant to tell you more by not telling too much, if you get my meaning.

They change names when they get to exile. It’s that simple. You’re supposed to get in that headspace - unknown surrounding, ominous characters, fear. No need for showing fake passports and whatnot… I certainly wouldn’t change opening introductions and the ending. Everything today has to be spelled out for the audience. This is not one of those movies.

You really only need to hang mean bastards,
but mean bastards you need to hang.

John ‘The Hangman’ Ruth

Author
Time

I did not have a problem following the story on my first viewing.

It’s not got anything to do with explaining anything in terms of the story. I was simply trying to find an anchor for the characters names. If you walk away from a film not knowing any of the characters names after watching it that is always a bad sign and because they don’t really speak to each other either then they never really establish the characters names well enough fake or real.

After the driving the truck test when the Guardia comes out and calls their names as chosen. There are no subtitles and he has a thick Spanish acent. Then when the Hitman bloke kills one of the chosen crew to drive the trucks. He is never named throughout the whole film I don’t think. He is just there and speaks about 3 times.

Perhaps that was the moment to really cement at least 3 of the characters via subtitles?

If you can’t accept it has got some serious faults but it also has good things about it also then I don’t know really.

Even though these characters are undesirables, we are meant to slightly grow to care about them… But only a little.

This post has been edited.

Author
Time

Ronster said:

If you can’t accept it has got some serious faults but it also has good things about it also then I don’t know really.

Ronster, it appears you are mistaking your own subjective opinions for cold hard fact, an approach that has no place in discourse about film (unless it’s to settle whether Greedo or Han shot first, of course). Lots of people, myself included, thoroughly enjoy Friedkin’s original cut, despite - or even because of - the “faults” that you describe. I can’t help but think that your hostility towards some of Friedkin’s artistic decisions was exacerbated by your reading so much about the film before seeing it and, in effect, deciding what the film would or should be before you even saw it. Leave the film alone for a week and then try to come back to it with zero expectations, and see what you think of Friedkin’s “mistakes” then. It’s a difficult (though I wouldn’t say incoherent) film, and it’s supposed to be. The European cutdown being supposedly easier to follow (and shorter) does not necessarily make it a better film.

Nonetheless, I thoroughly support any endeavour to preserve or re-create the cutdown, or do an “integral” combo of both cuts, and would happily do the former myself if I had access to the Finnish VHS I mentioned earlier to get the original audio.

This post has been edited.

Author
Time

The original Sorcerer is a supremely rewarding film, and I’ve only ever been aware of the ‘Wages of Fear’ cut as a sort of footnote in its release history - it’s a little baffling to hear it seriously discussed as a preferable option.

Anyway, I do have in mind to give the film (original cut, of course) a bit of a do-over in terms of the subtitles, original audio, possibly colour too. I need to get my hands on the laserdisc.

In the meantime, if anyone else is planning a Sorcerer project and wants to include the trailer, help yourself to my recut:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BDbIzovuos

(La Rabbia certainly did when they grabbed it to include on the French BD!)

Author
Time

djsmokingjam said:

Ronster said:

If you can’t accept it has got some serious faults but it also has good things about it also then I don’t know really.

Ronster, it appears you are mistaking your own subjective opinions for cold hard fact, an approach that has no place in discourse about film (unless it’s to settle whether Greedo or Han shot first, of course). Lots of people, myself included, thoroughly enjoy Friedkin’s original cut, despite - or even because of - the “faults” that you describe. I can’t help but think that your hostility towards some of Friedkin’s artistic decisions was exacerbated by your reading so much about the film before seeing it and, in effect, deciding what the film would or should be before you even saw it. Leave the film alone for a week and then try to come back to it with zero expectations, and see what you think of Friedkin’s “mistakes” then. It’s a difficult (though I wouldn’t say incoherent) film, and it’s supposed to be. The European cutdown being supposedly easier to follow (and shorter) does not necessarily make it a better film.

Nonetheless, I thoroughly support any endeavour to preserve or re-create the cutdown, or do an “integral” combo of both cuts, and would happily do the former myself if I had access to the Finnish VHS I mentioned earlier to get the original audio.

I am not trying to point out mistakes. Whenever I get interested and invested in a film I will read up about it before seeing it. Not to spoil it mind.

I wanted to give you an honest opinion about the film. I am not being hostile towards it. I do admire it in a lot of ways. But please realize I am not wanting to change the film really in any drastic way. Since spending quite a few years here now looking at films and analyzing all sorts of things. I am a great believer in small things can really make a massive difference when it comes to film. The smallest thing can completely change something whilst it’s not really that different the whole meaning might change for instance.

Basically I would like to experience the international cut (probably agree it’s worse than Friedkin’s?)

But take in to account what is good about it and as you say intergrate that in to the existing cut.

I stopped the film at one point whilst I was watching it because I wondered where the trees came from that engulfed the truck on the bridge. I stopped a rewound it to see if I had missed something.~(This was the only point I stopped it because I thought I had missed something) I had not. When looking at the international cut report I noticed the bridge half collapses and… Then the trees cave in on the side of the bank on the truck. Also when the truck leaves the bridge it drives clearly away from the bridge in the international cut. as soon as the wheel lifts over the last log we cut away.

It was things like that, that felt choppy as the pace of the film is not fast but all of a sudden there is a sudden abrupt cuts and it feels like stuff is missing. And when you look at the report you can clearly see that there are missing shots there.

I am being honest and really not slagging the film off at all. I don’t think the film was badly made as in the cinematography or the sound mixing.

Subtitles were not good. I think that is a fair comment and if you compare it to the script entry they only translate what is translated in the script. I doubt the Spanish version subtitles or French version subtitles skip over loads of English dialogue?

The only visual edit I would advocate is the telescopic sight overlay. If you check the censorship report about this point in the film of the German version there is 2 different shots of the truck. One of those shots was meant to have a telescopic sight superimposed over it (Probably the one in the German version)… Before the wheel get’s blown out. So it’s a simple overlay. Job done in my mind. It’s clearly stated in the script. The wheel is blown out by a terrorist with a rifle that has a telescopic sight.

Blue Ray

I had a go.

This post has been edited.

Author
Time

Just to add to my post above, it turns out there was another VHS release of the shorter international edit at the same time as the Finnish release, apparently from the same distributor (CIC/Esselte Video) - this time a Swedish release under the title Fruktans Lön (http://3filmer3dygn.blogspot.co.uk/2013/09/fruktans-lon.html). I’ve put out some feelers on trying to get a copy of either, but haven’t had much luck either way. Will keep trying in the meantime, and am planning a split-screen comparison between the German TV rip and the Universal DVD sometime soon.

Here’s YouTube links to the opening credits of both the German and Czech versions of the shorter cut (the former with a Czech dub overlaid).
German - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nFXcEm4N4k
Czech - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qAmIYsBBLo

Also found something interesting while doing comparisons between the old fullframe DVD and the Warner Blu-Ray; namely, that while the font and timings are different, the subtitles are otherwise 99% the same in terms of content between both versions, including a number of typos that are carried over.

However, judging by this photo of a 16mm print (http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a69/ryhffmn/007b_zps797c3584.jpg), it appears that the DVD subtitles are not the original theatrical subtitles, as might originally be assumed. The sentence seen here is split between two subtitles on the DVD and Blu-Ray.

Author
Time

djsmokingjam said:

Just to add to my post above, it turns out there was another VHS release of the shorter international edit at the same time as the Finnish release, apparently from the same distributor (CIC/Esselte Video) - this time a Swedish release under the title Fruktans Lön (http://3filmer3dygn.blogspot.co.uk/2013/09/fruktans-lon.html). I’ve put out some feelers on trying to get a copy of either, but haven’t had much luck either way. Will keep trying in the meantime, and am planning a split-screen comparison between the German TV rip and the Universal DVD sometime soon.

Here’s YouTube links to the opening credits of both the German and Czech versions of the shorter cut (the former with a Czech dub overlaid).
German - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nFXcEm4N4k
Czech - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qAmIYsBBLo

Also found something interesting while doing comparisons between the old fullframe DVD and the Warner Blu-Ray; namely, that while the font and timings are different, the subtitles are otherwise 99% the same in terms of content between both versions, including a number of typos that are carried over.

However, judging by this photo of a 16mm print (http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a69/ryhffmn/007b_zps797c3584.jpg), it appears that the DVD subtitles are not the original theatrical subtitles, as might originally be assumed. The sentence seen here is split between two subtitles on the DVD and Blu-Ray.

Any joy on finding the English Audio for the TV Cut?

Yeah I agree the subtitles don’t look of the time and I think the subtitles look a lot better and more fitting on the 16mm print. But I’ll stick to my opinion about them still needing an overhaul being only what was translated from the script made the subtitles and no more than that.

I’m ok with the odd word not being translated but the film needs that font in the 16mm print and have proper translation for the foreign language it would make such a difference and enhance the film so much more. I really do think it’s a real shame not only in terms of the look but the content also. Fix typo’s?

I really look forward to the comparsion.

There is something else I need to add and it is a censored scene I think when Roy scheider hit’s the terrorist with the shovel (2nd time) there is a weird jump cut there and I am sure there is a censorship cut at this point. I don’t think the footage is available in any version? Not talking about the TV cut I am talking about the Blu-ray release.

alternatively it’s a possible re-cut / reshuffle. Add it to the list of questionable cuts. I think what is more likely is that the shots of Schneider using the shovel were originally meant to be inter cut with Nilo shooting at the terrorists and getting shot himself. I think it’s a much more likely scenario that, that sequence should be un-jumbled and re-cut how it was probably meant to inter cut between Nilo and Shovel killing.

100% confirm the scenes are shuffled no censorship cut. This is evidenced by the gunshot in the sound mix when Schneider / Scanlon makes his second attack with the shovel. Nilo has already been shot and all the terrorists also by this point so who could possibly fire the gun if they have all been shot. The Remnant gunshot 100% confirms the re-edit possibly due to censorship though as the 1st shovel attack was cut from the European version.

Also this!!!

^ Not sure I remember the whole truck blowing it’s back load at this point but anyway color me interested in that as an oddity or perhaps a single crate goes off? It looks fairly distant from the back of the truck… Perhaps he gave a box to one of the terrorist hoping he would blow himself up god knows? Considering the different costumes I think that is a promo image or a total alternate take. This seems to be Serbian.

The European cut was also released in India apparently

Have you searched for the Australian release it is apparently the same as the European release? Or it might be the same as the European release?

This image above looks great and honestly it needs to look like this not what I did I just had a guess. But I am going to have a go at this scene just to see what I can get out of it.If I can make it like this I’ll post it.

I think the saturation is too much on the Blu-ray I think it could do with being de-saturated somewhat and color graded and should I add corrected also where needed. The truck scene is bad how they altered the colors but I don’t mind the way the film looks just it’s a bit too over green. I would happily accept a totally new color grade on this film even if somewhat revisionistic (not totally different but in the spirit) slightly de-saturated and corrected where needed.

I’ll share a lut that can be used up until the trucks on the bridge scenes that is an adequete correction and enhancement in my opinion. Or at least it is a starting block to try and rectify the blue ray in some capacity and it’s not particularly radical.

LUT

Shadows 41.96 degrees 1.97% value 119.39%
Midtones 226.26 degrees 3.74% value 110.20%
Highlights 233.62 degrees 1.25% value 100%

Main Saturation -12%

Blue Gamma 0.93
Red and Green Gamma 1.0

Red Contrast 9.33%
Green contrast 17.33%
Blue contrast 30.67%

Bias Sauration -5.33%
Scale Saturation 4%
Scale Value -4%

The truck scenes on the bridge although I can improve it and have improved it I am not sure it’s recoverable to any sort of original look I think it’s been screwed up. What’s the french blu ray like?

^ another example of this similar color grade which at the moment I can not reproduce. This is a bit more cyan but that could be the poster.

This post has been edited.

Author
Time

Stills from photos shot on set will always have a different appearance compared to the film. Especially the Blu-ray disc.

Author
Time

well if I could make the Blu-ray look like those still images I would. I spent quite a few hours on the bridge scene the rest of the film is not too bad. You can get some good results by simply applying a few Luts for everything in the film bar the bridge scenes which leaps about in color quite wildly.

I really did improve it a lot but…

In some shots the ropes on the bridge are pretty much pitch black and you can’t get the detail from any bottom end or shadows.

In my opinion it’s worth using another source for the bridge scenes some shots are just too far gone and ruined by what they did with the massive blue tint and probably darkening.

It’s also very difficult to get the red out when there is a big blue tint.

I have not looked at any other sources but I am pretty sure that they destroyed detail on the bridge with the weird color scheme.

Lazy color grading rather than commit to sorting out an issue.

This post has been edited.

Author
Time

Ronster said:

well if I could make the Blu-ray look like those still images I would. I spent quite a few hours on the bridge scene the rest of the film is not too bad. You can get some good results by simply applying a few Luts for everything in the film bar the bridge scenes which leaps about in color quite wildly.

I really did improve it a lot but…

In some shots the ropes on the bridge are pretty much pitch black and you can’t get the detail from any bottom end or shadows.

In my opinion it’s worth using another source for the bridge scenes some shots are just too far gone and ruined by what they did with the massive blue tint and probably darkening.

It’s also very difficult to get the red out when there is a big blue tint.

I have not looked at any other sources but I am pretty sure that they destroyed detail on the bridge with the weird color scheme.

Lazy color grading rather than commit to sorting out an issue.

There’s both the USA and FR or whichever Blu-ray releases which have slightly different color timing. Of course with BD it’s better color than DVD and grain rentention. Cause film grain is great and DVNR is shite.

Author
Time

djsmokingjam said:

EDIT: Never mind!

I read what you originally wrote… So you got the english audio for the german cut?.. If so Hooray!

I hope you got it… everything was resting on this so please revitalise this idea it is a good one after all 😃

Don’t tell me it got sold already…

Although I have not hunted this down. My opinions still stand on the points I raised.

  1. Cement characters names they were somebody who became nobodys in Vera cruz.
  2. Selective translation of foreign language awful either put translation up for audience benefit not just what is in the script. Use fonts of the time…
  3. Telescopic sight overlay on truck shot missing
  4. Recut shovel attack so it is in correct order as it is jumbled up.
  5. Famous bridge scene color alteration awful in blu-ray begone foul image…try to make it look like poster promo images.
  6. Put both cuts of the film together to make extended edition
  7. Restore original audio mix

That is all i have to say summed up and I will help out if you agree… But i don’t think you agree…

This post has been edited.

Author
Time

So I just read the plot in the wiki article on this movie. Why is the movie called “Sorcerer” when there doesn’t seem to be anything in it related to sorcery or some reason as to the name of the movie?

Also is this the movie where when transporting the nitro via trucks they come across a really corrugated section of the road and they decide they have to get a run up and go as fast as they can to essentially “skip” over the top of the corrugations to minimise the vibrations and therefore the chance of the nitro exploding? If so, then I’ve seen this movie but not for many many years since my early childhood.

.Val

Author
Time

The only answer I can give is Pazu is carved into a cliff face so perhaps that was meant to represent sone sort of curse or even divine intervention of an unwanted kind.

Also the front grille of the red truck resembles the stone carving of Pazu perhaps a Possessed truck or also of kin and cursed…

Not sure sbout acceleration over stuff or roads… I think that is what it is… Mumbo Jumbo about the sticks of hydro glycerin or nitro

May aseell call it wages of fear remake by william friedkin

This post has been edited.

Author
Time

Ronster said:

I read what you originally wrote… So you got the english audio for the german cut?.. If so Hooray!

Not yet, but if it works out (which I’ll know in the next few days), then hopefully, finally, yes! (And no, I didn’t buy the 16mm print that was up for sale a few months ago.)

Ronster said:

  1. Cement characters names they were somebody who became nobodys in Vera cruz.
  2. Selective translation of foreign language awful either put translation up for audience benefit not just what is in the script. Use fonts of the time…
  3. Telescopic sight overlay on truck shot missing
  4. Recut shovel attack so it is in correct order as it is jumbled up.
  5. Famous bridge scene color alteration awful in blu-ray begone foul image…try to make it look like poster promo images.
  6. Put both cuts of the film together to make extended edition
  7. Restore original audio mix

That is all i have to say summed up and I will help out if you agree… But i don’t think you agree…

No, I wouldn’t be interested in doing this type of fanedit myself; more likely I’d try to do a cleaned-up presentation of the Wages Of Fear cut and leave it at that. But if I get the tape and am able to capture it, then I don’t mind making the capture available for others who want to do their own fanedits. I did do a split-screen comparison using the German TV rip to determine which Sorcerer footage is used in it that could be used in a “preservation”, the results were quite encouraging.

Regarding a couple of your ideas: though I haven’t seen anything to confirm this, I’m fairly certain the shovel attack (as well as some instances of swearing, e.g. during the church robbery) were censored by Friedkin during post-production to ensure a PG rating from the MPAA. If that footage wasn’t restored during the 4K restoration, I doubt it still exists.

Also, regarding the telescopic sight: yes, this is detailed in Walon Green’s script, but the paragraph in question is emphatically crossed out in Friedkin’s copy of the script (reprinted as a book that comes with the snazzy limited French Blu-Ray), so it’s highly unlikely he ever intended for this optical effect to be included.

You may already be aware that Sorcerer is being re-released in UK cinemas and on Blu-Ray/DVD by eOne in the next few weeks. It’s safe to assume it will be the same master and audio as the other Blu-Ray releases, and the only bonus feature is the cringeworthingly tedious conversation between Friedkin and Nicolas Winding Refn from the French edition. A real missed opportunity, but at least the film is back out there.

Author
Time

Well a good friend of mine has a Finnish girlfriend… And she is going out to Finland next week So if you need help with translation
I could potentially ask for you.

It is fine by me whatever you want to do… The shovel attack is an editing goof the hitman and the last terrorist are already dead. When Schneider swings the shovel the last time gun shots can still be heard but they are all already shot and dead. The end of the sequence should have the last shots of hitman in truck and dead terrorist who shoot one another the last shovel attack by scneider preceeding this.

Do you think the optical effect for the gun sight dropped because Friedkin cut the footage that is in the TV / German cut? Also budget might have been running out and he might have been told to shorten the films length? Basically the TV cut features the shot but without the optical effect super-imposed and they never understood what the shot was actually meant to be?

Censored swearing? please tell…

Thanks for thd heads up on the UK release! 😃




Made Prologue title cards… This was to cement the names and chapter the prologue. Very Simple change that I think would achieve a lot. Should it be Jesse and Victor? (leaning towards Victor rather than Manzon and Jesse rather than Scanlon)

Anyway I thought I would display how simple an idea it is… Not saying you should do it but just to show you how small the change was and that it would not interfere with the actual film at all.

The other thought the comes to mind is the “Sorcerer” title card should come after the prologues and begin the Vera Cruz segment with the stone carving of PAZU. So I would do away with the “Flashbacks” from TV version and Extend the theatrical cut using this structure which you can see how simple it is in execution now at least and at last.

This post has been edited.

Author
Time

Well, good news - I have in my sweaty mitts an ex-rental Finnish VHS of the shorter Wages Of Fear, and have just finished watching it through while recording it to DVD on HQ setting. A few impressions:

  • Seeing it with the original English audio really does drive home that this version is basically Sorcerer For Dummies. There is a lot of awkwardly overdubbed and re-dubbed dialogue, with much of the foreign-language dialogue dubbed into English (such as Serrano’s Paris-set flashback).

  • There are still two or three scenes (from memory, the old man in the forest and the terrorists near the end) that haven’t been dubbed over. In these scenes, the original English subtitles are still visible underneath the new Finnish subs.

  • Unlike the German TV rip, the opening and closing credits are in the same John Carpenter-style font as Sorcerer.

  • Again, unlike the letterboxed German TV rip, the VHS is pan-and-scanned.

I’ll post a framegrab or two when I’m back at my computer on Monday. Meanwhile, go see the re-release of Sorcerer, in cinemas today!

EDIT: and hey, nearly a year to the day that I initially replied in this thread about the Finnish tape’s existence!

This post has been edited.

Author
Time

Thanks for the update… How do the extended scenes feel with the original sound mix for them?

That is not with the german audio dub…

But really good news glad you got this atleast…

Sorcerer for dummies 😃

I guess it is a bit of a silly edit I assumed as much but really for the scene extensions with english / original sound mix rather than flashbacks inserted haphazzardly also…

Well please share your findings.

Would appreciate a cap of the bridge scene also but with original colors please…

Ah interesting about fonts for english version! Is it possible to restore them?

This post has been edited.

To the top