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Should Vader and The Emperor even know who Yoda is?

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Even in George’s recuts, there is no addendum of dialogue between palps and Vader regarding Yoda. “He’s just a boy. Obi-Wan can no longer help him” is all we get in regards to Luke’s future training.

Frank Oz always held the belief that Yoda was an elegant being who never really belonged in the marsh, swampy world of Dagobah, but there’s not really an indication that he ever met Anakin, or held an organized council in the universe’s capital. Yes, he senses anger in Luke “like his father”, but he also speaks of how long he has been watching Luke, presumably then from a metaphysical context. I imagine he gauges whether or not one should be trained in the force from afar, and old Ben was the only one who had a spark of honor and purity within him. Perhaps after his initial training, Ben too wanted to bring Anakin over to Dagobah, but Yoda told him not to, or to even mention his existence. Which would then tie in to Ben taking it upon himself to do the job, then failing, proving Yoda right.

I feel Jedi and Force don’t quite go hand in hand. Perhaps the force has been around for milenia, and instead of it being a religion in itself, countless religions have spawned from it. There’s nothing really Jedi-like about Yoda. He’s simply well adversed in channeling the force’s energy. A more reasonable explanation would be that he’s simply a bastion of nature, someone who exists to guide the pendelum of balance back and forth, and calls upon the strength of others to do it. And as such, the Emperor is the negation of that purpose. ‘Jedi Master’ might have been more of an informal title, in that it’s just happenstance for Yoda to call upon the potential of Jedi Knights in order to hold balance in the universe. But he doesn’t consider himself a Jedi.

Neither The Emperor nor Yoda seek power in that regard. They need only be at the forefront of events in order to ensure that what they stand to protect is realized; The Emperor is a chaotic neutral and Yoda a Lawful Neutral. So there is much, much more at stake than percieved when Yoda finally bites it in VI. And Luke being “the last of the Jedi” is not a call to make his friends and children start swinging lightsabers as a collective, but rather a recognition he is now the only one who can combat the chaotic fist of the emperor.

So The Emperor’s claim that Luke could “destroy us” might allude to him believing that Luke is already the protector of balance, and that there is no Yoda to begin with. Otherwise there’d be more of an effort to go after and kill Yoda, which would then inevitably drop Luke right into Vader’s hands, no matter how long it took. Yoda’s deceptive appearance may also match his presence in the force; and in The Emperor’s overconfidence he never seeks Yoda out.

Maybe the ‘Jedi Order’ operated in the same divided and nomadic way prior to the turn of Civil War.

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I don’t remember how exactly the book went, but in ROTJ Vader and the Emperor found about Yoda in the throne room when Luke was there, IIRC. It’s been awhile since I read it but either Luke told them or they searched his thoughts.

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I too think it would be best if Yoda remained a mystery and wasn’t a head of the council etc.
That he didn’t chose swampy forest because of an exile, but as a place to test himself, or a seclusion while he explores the Force, entire place for younger jedies should be sort of a pilgrimage where he decides are they worthy or not to be trained by him.

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Yoda is not a character in my personal PT. I like Yoda best as mysterious character.

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Should Vader and The Emperor even know who Yoda is?

Nope. I always assumed they had no clue, otherwise they would have attacked Dagobah and tried to eliminate him. Vader mentions Obi-Wan’s name repeatedly, but never mentions Yoda in the OT.

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Yoda to me feels very much like a spiritual guru who has stayed out of the way of galactic history for the most part, gradually growing in wisdom and power throughout his life. At some point Jedi began to seek him out for his wisdom, and they gave him the title of ‘Jedi Master’. His teachings are different than those of Obi-wan, leading me to believe that he adapted his long-form method of learning into a condensed Jedi training course, but this wouldn’t afford the same power as he has accrued through long centuries of meditation. This is why he is so astonished that Luke was almost able to lift the X-wing. He is concerned with Vader and the Emperor because of their dark influence, but he is not diametrically opposed to them. A force of nature as you say. He definitely identifies as a Jedi to some degree, hence his telling Luke that Luke will be the last only when he himself dies. Yet he tells him this in the context of ‘passing on’ what he has learned. In this way, a Jedi is one who knows about the light side of the Force and rejects the dark side. In this way most of all, Yoda is essentially a Jedi.

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Nandi said:

I too think it would be best if Yoda remained a mystery and wasn’t a head of the council etc.
That he didn’t chose swampy forest because of an exile, but as a place to test himself, or a seclusion while he explores the Force, entire place for younger jedies should be sort of a pilgrimage where he decides are they worthy or not to be trained by him.

Didn’t he say he had a council on who was to be trained in ESB though?

Alderaan said:

Should Vader and The Emperor even know who Yoda is?

Nope. I always assumed they had no clue, otherwise they would have attacked Dagobah and tried to eliminate him. Vader mentions Obi-Wan’s name repeatedly, but never mentions Yoda in the OT.

It’s heavily implied that Yoda has come into contact with both of them before. In ESB he talks about how strong Luke’s father was, and in ROTJ he tells Luke to not underestimate the Emperor. He went into hiding on some random remote planet, it’s much less far fetched that they never went after him as opposed to Vader going after Luke who’s “hiding” with his family.

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mfastx said:

Nandi said:

I too think it would be best if Yoda remained a mystery and wasn’t a head of the council etc.
That he didn’t chose swampy forest because of an exile, but as a place to test himself, or a seclusion while he explores the Force, entire place for younger jedies should be sort of a pilgrimage where he decides are they worthy or not to be trained by him.

Didn’t he say he had a council on who was to be trained in ESB though?

“My own counsel will I keep, on who is to be trained!”

Counsel =/= Council

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doubleofive said:

mfastx said:

Nandi said:

I too think it would be best if Yoda remained a mystery and wasn’t a head of the council etc.
That he didn’t chose swampy forest because of an exile, but as a place to test himself, or a seclusion while he explores the Force, entire place for younger jedies should be sort of a pilgrimage where he decides are they worthy or not to be trained by him.

Didn’t he say he had a council on who was to be trained in ESB though?

“My own counsel will I keep, on who is to be trained!”

Counsel =/= Council

That’s just an interpretation though. He could have full well meant council.

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yhwx said:

doubleofive said:

mfastx said:

Nandi said:

I too think it would be best if Yoda remained a mystery and wasn’t a head of the council etc.
That he didn’t chose swampy forest because of an exile, but as a place to test himself, or a seclusion while he explores the Force, entire place for younger jedies should be sort of a pilgrimage where he decides are they worthy or not to be trained by him.

Didn’t he say he had a council on who was to be trained in ESB though?

“My own counsel will I keep, on who is to be trained!”

Counsel =/= Council

That’s just an interpretation though. He could have full well meant council.

The Script says:

  		YODA
  Ready, are you?  What know you 
  of ready?  For eight hundred years 
  have I trained Jedi.  My own counsel 
  will I keep on who is to be trained!
  A Jedi must have the deepest 
  commitment, the most serious mind.

They’re completely different words.

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yhwx said:

doubleofive said:

mfastx said:

Nandi said:

I too think it would be best if Yoda remained a mystery and wasn’t a head of the council etc.
That he didn’t chose swampy forest because of an exile, but as a place to test himself, or a seclusion while he explores the Force, entire place for younger jedies should be sort of a pilgrimage where he decides are they worthy or not to be trained by him.

Didn’t he say he had a council on who was to be trained in ESB though?

“My own counsel will I keep, on who is to be trained!”

Counsel =/= Council

That’s just an interpretation though. He could have full well meant council.

No. No.

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doubleofive said:

yhwx said:

doubleofive said:

mfastx said:

Nandi said:

I too think it would be best if Yoda remained a mystery and wasn’t a head of the council etc.
That he didn’t chose swampy forest because of an exile, but as a place to test himself, or a seclusion while he explores the Force, entire place for younger jedies should be sort of a pilgrimage where he decides are they worthy or not to be trained by him.

Didn’t he say he had a council on who was to be trained in ESB though?

“My own counsel will I keep, on who is to be trained!”

Counsel =/= Council

That’s just an interpretation though. He could have full well meant council.

The Script says:

  		YODA
  Ready, are you?  What know you 
  of ready?  For eight hundred years 
  have I trained Jedi.  My own counsel 
  will I keep on who is to be trained!
  A Jedi must have the deepest 
  commitment, the most serious mind.

They’re completely different words.

Wait, Yoda has his own personal council? Cool!

I’ll bet he also has very strict Principals.

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doubleofive said:

yhwx said:

doubleofive said:

mfastx said:

Nandi said:

I too think it would be best if Yoda remained a mystery and wasn’t a head of the council etc.
That he didn’t chose swampy forest because of an exile, but as a place to test himself, or a seclusion while he explores the Force, entire place for younger jedies should be sort of a pilgrimage where he decides are they worthy or not to be trained by him.

Didn’t he say he had a council on who was to be trained in ESB though?

“My own counsel will I keep, on who is to be trained!”

Counsel =/= Council

That’s just an interpretation though. He could have full well meant council.

The Script says:

  		YODA
  Ready, are you?  What know you 
  of ready?  For eight hundred years 
  have I trained Jedi.  My own counsel 
  will I keep on who is to be trained!
  A Jedi must have the deepest 
  commitment, the most serious mind.

They’re completely different words.

If that script is genuine and authentic, then yes, you are correct.

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LexX said:

I don’t remember how exactly the book went, but in ROTJ Vader and the Emperor found about Yoda in the throne room when Luke was there, IIRC. It’s been awhile since I read it but either Luke told them or they searched his thoughts.

From the novelization:

The Emperor tapped his fingers on the arm of the throne, recalling. “There was one called…Yoda. An aged Master Jed…Ah, I see by your countenance I have hit a chord, a resonant chord indeed. Yoda then.”

Then a bit later he asks Luke;
This Yoda," the Emperor mused. "Lives he still?"
And he doesn’t make a very big deal out of it when he finds out he’s dead, other than the fact that there’s no more Jedi to train Luke.

From this dialogue I’d say it’s heavily implied that Palpatine has never actually met Yoda. He seems to only have heard of him, which I guess makes sense as he trained Obi-Wan and possibly others, and he presumably had a reputation.

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mfastx said:
It’s heavily implied that Yoda has come into contact with both of them before. In ESB he talks about how strong Luke’s father was, and in ROTJ he tells Luke to not underestimate the Emperor. He went into hiding on some random remote planet, it’s much less far fetched that they never went after him as opposed to Vader going after Luke who’s “hiding” with his family.

Where was it heavily implied? There’s no implication Yoda ever met any of these people in the OT. He watched Luke from the other side of the galaxy. He was in communication with Obi-Wan’s spirit. He was obviously aware that all of the other Jedi had been purged by Vader and the Emperor.

I mean, watching the movies, Dagobah could have been Yoda’s home planet for all you know. Obi-Wan could have gone there to train when he was younger and Vader didn’t know about it. Don’t tell me there’s some other explanation in a book somewhere. If it’s not in the movie, it’s not relevant.

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doubleofive said:

“My own counsel will I keep, on who is to be trained!”

Counsel =/= Council

Got it. Regarding Vader, Yoda does mention to Luke how powerful his father was though. And he also warns Luke about the Emperor. It’d seem pretty strange to me if they never actually met.

Was your interpretation that he was just viewing them through force visions or something?

Also, Ben telling Luke about how he “tried to train Vader just as well as Yoda” is another hint that they were connected somehow. I can’t imagine that in all his years training Anakin, Ben would never think to bring up Yoda.

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This Yoda," the Emperor mused. "Lives he still?"
And he doesn’t make a very big deal out of it when he finds out he’s dead, other than the fact that there’s no more Jedi to train Luke.

From this dialogue I’d say it’s heavily implied that Palpatine has never actually met Yoda. He seems to only have heard of him, which I guess makes sense as he trained Obi-Wan and possibly others, and he presumably had a reputation.

Then, how would you interpret the fact that the Emperor knew the speech pattern of Yoda? By what he read on Lukes mind? For me, it would actually implied that they met, at least once

I don’t really care if it’s in the shape of a movie, or a cartoon tv-series, or if it’s on videogames and books. Neither if it’s canon or legends; I love all my Star Wars (yes, even the prequels).

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Edezio Enk’or Valorum said:

Then, how would you interpret the fact that the Emperor knew the speech pattern of Yoda? By what he read on Lukes mind? For me, it would actually implied that they met, at least once

When did the Emperor ever speak like Yoda?

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TV’s Frink said:

Probably in a novelization or in the EU, neither of which counts.

Right, I’m just waiting for one of them to tell me I have to look it up in a book somewhere.

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