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Robert Harris Godfather Restoration WHY cannot lucas restore the oot ? — Page 2

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Tiptup said:

zombie84 said:


By the time we got to Last Crusade it had drifted and evolved into its own thing.


A somewhat worse thing I think. Though, in my opinion, even Raiders is rather superficial (particularly when you get to the big Nazi stuff at the end).
What? The Nazis had a huge hard-on for all that occultish shit. I bet Indy got really tired of it when World War II was full on. Hell, even the main character from Return to Castle Wolfenstein was getting tired of the repetiveness of the Nazis by the games end. At least he also got to fight supernatural baddies too. All in a days work I figure. Or a few weeks for different timeframes. Even in Fate of Atlantis it was typical of the Nazis to try and one-step ahead Indy, but of course Indy got the jump on them. At least Temple of Doom had a change of pace and kept with a massive Cult in the form of the Thuggee.
Since there are alot of film series which are making massive comebacks, might there in fact be the possibility of a The GodFather Part IV? Eh, only suggesting even though it's not very likely it'll happen. Where's Beverly Hills Cop IV, Gremlins 3, RoboCop 4 and others? Oh, wait...
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DarkGryphon2048 said:


What? The Nazis had a huge hard-on for all that occultish shit.


I didn't mean to say that I don't like the Nazis as a story element. I just find that the movie starts taking on a more sensational style as Indy battles the Nazis at the end. It doesn't seem to match the more sentimental nature of the action in the earlier scenes of the film. Thankfully its still good and my immense like for the characters carries me through to the end of the story.

"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself.  It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005

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Well the opening sequence kind of frames things in terms of adventure serials, so when it returns to it in the latter half of the film its not out of place. And then it still pauses for a breather with that TERRIFIC scene of Indy and Marion on the ocean liner. You know, just some character bits for ten or 15 minutes. And even then it never really gets back to the "serial" formula, I mean Indy threatening to blow up the ark is just his character, and theres no serial precident for what happens at the end, it just Spielberg comic-book craziness.
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I wonder when we'll hear something about the next OT release.
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Fang Zei said:

I wonder when we'll hear something about the next OT release.
Maybe 35th Anniversary?
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The 35th anniversary of Revenge of the Sith.
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Sluggo said:

The 35th anniversary of Revenge of the Sith.

Nobody will give a shit about ROTS in 35 years except in a WTF? type way.

War does not make one great.

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Jay said:

Restoration usually implies that great care is taken during the process to ensure that the final product is of high quality. Instead, we got poor color timing, screwed up soundtracks, and a host of other problems due to a rush job.


Something I've noticed over the years, with each release and re-release on VHS, LaserDisc, DVD, problems that were fixed on one release were broken on the next, or at best had a different fix applied. It's like every release started from scratch instead of building on the previous version.

The suspicious part of me says that this was on purpose. It manufactures a reason for the obsessive people to keep buying it over and over hoping to finally get the "perfect" version that never really arrives.

My outlook on life - we’re all on the Hindenburg anyway…no point fighting over the window seat.

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I find it appalling that films like the godfather movies and now dirty harry can be restored but not star wars.

Even the rambo films were restored in previous years, as well as the sergio leone films .

We also have discussed the remaster of Close Encounters theatrical cut and blade runner being released, as well remastered not to the same standard as the final cut but not given the laserdisc 4:3 letterbox treatment star wars was given.

Looks like i will be buying the new godfather and dirty harry collection and Lucas is not getting from me a dime. The only exception is seeing Indiana Jones IV in theaters and completing my collection when it hits dvd. Hell i know the movie sucks in comparison to Raiders and last crusade, i will be buying it for the second disc only if there are deleted scenes included.

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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?

If the movie sucks then why the hell would you want to see behind-the-scenes footage from a movie you think sucks? Or deleted scenes from a movie you think sucks?
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basicaly this is the entire thing RAH said on the forums mielr pointed to

"For the record, it makes no difference whether one uses digital or analogue tools in restoring a film. One or the other, or a combination of both.

When one takes on a restoration project, the single overriding object is to do no harm to the ORIGINAL ELEMENTS.

In many cases, original elements, be they OCN or protection dupes are missing vital things... such as sprocket holes, portions of frames or color.

The challenge then, is not to somehow restore the sprocket holes or the color on the actual original, but rather to create a new working element to be used for all future needs, which can replicate and take the place of the unusable and damaged original.

The kiss from Rear Window has been mentioned here. The problem was that the shot was originally a dupe cut into the working OCN. It had been step printed to slow down the action, and it was severely faded.

The OCN, from which the final shot had been produced, no longer existed.

In order to create a new working element, dye layers from different elements were re-printed to recreate a shot with viable color, and then scanned, digitally cleaned to remove layers of dirt and damage, and then recorded out BACK TO FILM. While this process was achieved via a combination of analogue and digital, today we would work solely in the digital domain for a superior final product.

Digital is more expensive than analogue, but gives us better results.

Both are simply tools we use toward the creation of new working film elements.

The other point that should be made re: earlier discussions, is that there are restorations and then "restorations." There are some who believe that if you have a viable, non-faded, printable original negative, and you clean it so that the next print produced is cleaner than the previous, you have, in some way "restored" it.

This is simply marketing bunk.

The other major difference must take into account true film restoration - again whether via digital or analogue means is of no import - as opposed to digital clean-ups, which abound for home video.

The breaking point here is two-fold.

1. Whether the process was performed at full film resolution -- in most cases 2k is not considered film resolution unless for a modern DI for which the INTENT OF THE FILMMAKERS is a final 2k record. Most original OCNs, going back more than 70 years have far more than 2k information to be harvested from them.

2. Whether the process yields a final film recorded out at FULL RESOLUTION.

Again, it doesn't matter how you get to the final point, as long as the original damaged elements are re-vaulted in a state that has added no further damage.

The bottom line here is that an original camera negative exists only as an object from which to harvest an image."

I wonder what Harris thinks about Lucas destruction of the o-neg to create the special edition of star wars, would be interesting to know.

The official Lucasfilm word is "Altered" destroyed is more applicable since they cut it up.

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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DarkGryphon2048 said:


Since there are alot of film series which are making massive comebacks, might there in fact be the possibility of a The GodFather Part IV?


I think I actually read somewhere that a Part 4 was planned until Mario Puzo died, after which Coppola decided against it.

http://i.imgur.com/7N84TM8.jpg

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yes another author took over the reigns of the godfather novels and the studio optioned the book, rumored to have coppola attached to it and then never made.

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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Thedigitalbits broke the news that the Godfather films will almost certainly be hitting blu-ray on 9/23.

An unaltered restoration of the Godfather films will hopefully help Lucas get the picture.
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Just today the news broke that six of LOWRY's Bond restorations will also be hitting blu-ray some time this fall. Highdefdigest seems pretty confident it's an October 21st street date.

Come on Lucas, don't keep letting us down.
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Fang Zei said:

Thedigitalbits broke the news that the Godfather films will almost certainly be hitting blu-ray on 9/23.

An unaltered restoration of the Godfather films will hopefully help Lucas get the picture.


If the latest Blade Runner release didn't help Lucas "get the picture" what makes you think a Godfather restoration will? This is a serious question. The Blade Runner set is, in my opinion, exactly the way Star Wars should be released. He could even do the same options. A "final cut" of the 6 Star Wars movies, a slightly bigger set that includes the original unaltered versions completely remastered, and then possibly a final set that includes the workprint (or maybe just the version with the Biggs scene), if any, of ANH. Since the difference between the original release of Star Wars and the first rerelease is only a minor change to the crawl (might be some audio stuff too, not sure) then a seemless branched DVD would be perfect for that.

Of course, a "Final Cut" of the 6 movies probably wouldn't work for Lucas since he'd want to change them again in a few years. And, as the name suggests, a final cut is final. That shouldn't stop him from simply releasing a "Director's Cut" though.

I bought the briefcase version of Blade Runner so there's obviously a market for that type of set. There is nothing stopping Lucas from doing something similar. He simply doesn't want to do it. In my opinion, every classic movie could get the "Blade Runner treatment" and it wouldn't change Lucas' mind one bit.
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skyjedi2005 said:

I wonder what Harris thinks about Lucas destruction of the o-neg to create the special edition of star wars, would be interesting to know.


Lucas didn't destroy the negatives. Time had done the job for him when the SEs came around (apparently the storage sucked). They had to use other prints to put the SEs together.
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quote form Harris "as long as the original damaged elements are re-vaulted in a state that has added no further damage."

Further damage was done by altering the original negative to add those bizarre and unneeded fake cgi.

No greater sin could have been commited by this so called and self named film preservationist than to actually physically cut up the camera negative.

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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skyjedi2005 said:


Further damage was done by altering the original negative to add those bizarre and unneeded fake cgi.


The actual camera negatives themselves weren't destroyed though. Just the editorial negative for prints. The biggest sin Lucas committed was misleadingly removing the title "Special Edition" from the film.
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skyjedi2005 said:

No greater sin could have been commited by this so called and self named film preservationist than to actually physically cut up the camera negative.


Which he did not do. The original negative was in tatters by '93. Even if he had cut it up, he couldn't have done more damage than was already done.

Quite frankly, your spiteful attitude towards Lucas is growing tiresome. I've seen several posts by you calling him insane and saying he belongs in a straightjacket and all sorts of other ridiculous things. And over what? Some movies. Cultural icons or not, that what they are: just movies. To harbor so much ill will towards someone over a few items of entertainment isn't just irrational, it's downright disturbing.

To summarize: "We live in a real world. Come back to it."
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"he couldn't have done more damage than was already done."

Apparently you have not seen the prequels and the special editions.

I don't think as a consumer that it is in any way irrational to want the original versions of the movies in watchable quality, the gout does not qualify to these standards.

All i want is the 1977-1983 theatrical originals.

It's not that hard to do for a billionaire to step aside and loose his tyranical control over his creations and give the people what they want.

I'm sure i'm not the only one who thinks George went off the deep end and went a little crazy with the cg. especially so since in star wars to jedi he says the story is more important than special effects.

I had great respect for that George Lucas, George as he is now is not the same person.

If lucas was not so wrong in his treatment of the originals and his fans, sites like this would not exist

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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I respect George Lucas a filmmaker. I think he still knows that a good story is more important than special effects, he just can't write a good story anymore.

As for the special editions; I believe the movies are his, and he can do whatever the hell he wants. He just shouldn't be allowed to disown the theatrical editions.

A Goon in a Gaggle of 'em

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Johnboy3434 said:

Which he did not do. The original negative was in tatters by '93. Even if he had cut it up, he couldn't have done more damage than was already done.

Quite frankly, your spiteful attitude towards Lucas is growing tiresome. I've seen several posts by you calling him insane and saying he belongs in a straightjacket and all sorts of other ridiculous things. And over what? Some movies. Cultural icons or not, that what they are: just movies. To harbor so much ill will towards someone over a few items of entertainment isn't just irrational, it's downright disturbing.

To summarize: "We live in a real world. Come back to it."


Johnboy, I think you have to take these posts with a grain of salt, and I think you are reading into these comments a bit too much. I don't think anyone seriously wants to physically harm Lucas or wishes ill will towards the guy, they are just frustrated that the OOT is treated like crap, so what comes out in post as a rant on the OOT movies spills over that it looks like we all want a pox on Lucas.

I don't hate Lucas, I actually respect the guy for being in that Hollywood box and still bringing up his 3 kids in a normal way rather then most rich Hollywood actors/directors whose kids are in jail by 20 years old cause they are so spoiled because they were brought up with a silver spoon in their mouth. I think Lucas is pretty grounded when it comes to things outside of SW, as he does alot of great stuff with charities, etc. I just think he is past his prime when it comes to movie making, and just like any good musician and athlete, their best years are behind them, and Lucas should just move on from SW & Indy, as sometimes less is more.

Look at Led Zeppelin, have they put out any songs like Stairway to Heaven in the past 20 years? Was Michael Jordan the best player in the NBA when he came out of retirement a second time for the Wizards in 2001? The same goes for guys like Lucas & Spielberg, great athletes and artists have a 'prime' of their careers where they do stuff that knock peoples socks off, and from about 1973-1983, Lucas was in that zone with Graffiti, Star Wars Trilogy, and the Indy Trilogy.
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CO said:

Johnboy3434 said:

Which he did not do. The original negative was in tatters by '93. Even if he had cut it up, he couldn't have done more damage than was already done.

Quite frankly, your spiteful attitude towards Lucas is growing tiresome. I've seen several posts by you calling him insane and saying he belongs in a straightjacket and all sorts of other ridiculous things. And over what? Some movies. Cultural icons or not, that what they are: just movies. To harbor so much ill will towards someone over a few items of entertainment isn't just irrational, it's downright disturbing.

To summarize: "We live in a real world. Come back to it."


Johnboy, I think you have to take these posts with a grain of salt, and I think you are reading into these comments a bit too much. I don't think anyone seriously wants to physically harm Lucas or wishes ill will towards the guy, they are just frustrated that the OOT is treated like crap, so what comes out in post as a rant on the OOT movies spills over that it looks like we all want a pox on Lucas.

I don't hate Lucas, I actually respect the guy for being in that Hollywood box and still bringing up his 3 kids in a normal way rather then most rich Hollywood actors/directors whose kids are in jail by 20 years old cause they are so spoiled because they were brought up with a silver spoon in their mouth. I think Lucas is pretty grounded when it comes to things outside of SW, as he does alot of great stuff with charities, etc. I just think he is past his prime when it comes to movie making, and just like any good musician and athlete, their best years are behind them, and Lucas should just move on from SW & Indy, as sometimes less is more.

Look at Led Zeppelin, have they put out any songs like Stairway to Heaven in the past 20 years? Was Michael Jordan the best player in the NBA when he came out of retirement a second time for the Wizards in 2001? The same goes for guys like Lucas & Spielberg, great athletes and artists have a 'prime' of their careers where they do stuff that knock peoples socks off, and from about 1973-1983, Lucas was in that zone with Graffiti, Star Wars Trilogy, and the Indy Trilogy.
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