Info: Recommended Editions of Disney Animated (and Partially Animated) Features — Page 3

Molly said:

>mfw

I thought even 16mm didn't resolve well at 1080.

16mm stock is typically shitty. It's often much worse than the stock Derann used for their Super8 prints.

Puggo's 16mm transfers, as much as I love them, are not at all representative of what you can get from a good 16mm print, or even a good Super8 one.

Also, FWIW, it's not Puggo's fault. The problems are inherent to his sources.

Hm, yeah, DBZ and Macross look decent, at least at 720...

16mm stock is fantastic, if you get an original 16mm print it is a gorgeous thing to behold and much better than Super8.

However a lot of 16mm prints are cheap reductions done from a battered old print illegally on the side in a lab. Like those DVDs made from people who videotape a movie in a cinema. It isn't the DVD medium that is the problem, it is the source. Same with 16mm, if you can find an original it is a beautiful thing, but the reduction dupes are often awful.

First step would be to put the word out to any Disney Collectors and see if we can find a print we could borrow to take a look.

Otherwise there is a Peter Pan up at the moment for $400, I'd like to start with a cheaper one if I can find it though.

I'd love to know what the heck Peter Pan is supposed to look like.  I think just about every home video release has been different with warm colors now being used.

These film preservations are an awesome idea, but all I can offer is encouragement.

This doesn't seem too bad, for the most recent release as bonus on "Walt and El Grupo" ... it's certainly grainy as heck, uncharacteristic of modern Disney... (this was the one frame I capped mainly because I was LOLing at how much worse the captions were than the laserdisc edition, which actually transcribes Zé's Portuguese.)

Soooo.  The rotoscope restoration method is even more dubious than previous tools applied to Disney's films.

The Sleeping Beauty featurette I linked made clear that the 2003 restoration was only the second time the process has ever been used.  The first being the 1994 Snow White.

As such, I have re-written three quarters of my guide (now v.2).  Most films prior to Pocahontas include a Purist and Acceptable Alternative recommendation.

From Pocahontas on Disney has provided direct digital copies of their films from their computers with no apparent liberties taken.

Purist selections are intended to be prior to the Disney's alterations and restorations.  Analog sources are recommended when necessary.

The Acceptable Alternatives may have minor changes or a greater/lesser degree of restoration, but are nice enough that you can probably over look the issues.  They are almost always a digital medium.  They are rarely blu-ray since Disney was even less respectful of the source material during those 'restorations'.

Feel free to tear into it again.  I'm sure I've missed a lot of VHS and Laserdisc suggestions.

So which Disney title is *most* wanted to have a restoration done? I have found multiple film prints out there and may as well work on the most important first.

I'm trying to think what movie got mauled the worst, though anything I'd want to preserve I can probably acquire - or mostly thanks to drfsupercenter, have - on laserdisc, which is certainly better than nothing...

The ones I think really got the worst of the hatchet are in this order, Beauty and the Beast, The Lion King, and Aladdin - and Aladdin mostly in the audio, the video not really getting hit.  But if I had to say just one movie that absolutely needed a resto?  Prolly BatB.

I would've included Saludos Amigos but they got sane and included it as a bonus feature on Walt and El Grupo, so that one has no worse than bumper plastering, which I can live with.

My suggestions?

Snow White.  While the restorations are pretty, they are that freaky rotoscope thing which they supposedly did in 1994!?  No laserdiscs were made before then.  AFAIK there are no releases that pre-date it except maybe some VHS.

Dumbo is a head scratcher.  There have been 3 DVDs, none are right, but someone with some advanced color correction skills could probably fix the 60th anniversary release.

Cinderella was pretty much destroyed by the time it hit DVD.  The laserdisc isn't awful, it could just be better.

If the screenshots of the 1991 laserdisc of Peter Pan are to be believed, there are colors and detail in that film that have never been seen since.

Lady and the Tramp academy ratio... I just don't know how much interest there would be.

Beauty and the Beast... yeah, probably important.  The problem when you get this modern is that it would be best synced to the BD restored audio track, not whatever is on the film.

The Lion King suffered serious reanimation of scenes, possibly worse than BatB ever did.  Someone would need to do a LDrip for that otherwise.

Of course there is the question, what versions of Fantasia exist.

While Aladdin has been poked and prodded in the audio department, I've seen screenshots of the EU Blu-ray and it looks pretty much identical to the old DVD.

Doctor M said:

My suggestions?

Snow White.  While the restorations are pretty, they are that freaky rotoscope thing which they supposedly did in 1994!?  No laserdiscs were made before then.  AFAIK there are no releases that pre-date it except maybe some VHS.

Snow White - laserdisc box set - from the LDDB related page:

Box Set with feature presented in CAV on Side 1-4 with original full mono soundtrack on the left analog channel and music/effects only on the right track.

Disc 3 is a supplemental disc pressed by Technidisc presented in CLV/CAV format with separate right and left audio tracks presenting alternative information.

Side 5 in CLV contains a "Making of.." Documentary of the history of Snow White, storyboards, character concepts, pencil animation, etc. The featurette of the Premiere.

One of the audio tracks contain a radio interview with Cecil B Demille and Walt Disney talking about the production of Snow White. Other chapters contail deleted or proposed scenes, Radio Commercials

Side 6 in CAV contains a short biography and timeline of Walt Disney, Sbow White, the original Grimm text of Snow White, storyboards or scenes and abandoned scenes, Character design sketches, Deleted scenes both storyboard reconstructions and full animated scenes.

The box also includes a set of 10 Lithographs and a Hardback Book "The Making of a Classic".

Don't know if it has the rotoscope affair, but if they did that "improvement" in 1994, there is a chance they had no time to remaster the laserdisc with that "improvement"...

Only the extras worth a preservation...

Dumbo is a head scratcher.  There have been 3 DVDs, none are right, but someone with some advanced color correction skills could probably fix the 60th anniversary release.

I have the PAL UK laserdisc... don't know if it's better than the NTSC laserdiscs, but at least this is CAV and, if it's not a simple NTSC->PAL conversion, should have a better vertical resolution.

Cinderella was pretty much destroyed by the time it hit DVD.  The laserdisc isn't awful, it could just be better.

Cinderella - laserdisc box set - from the LDDB related page:

This is a Remastered Edition.

This Box Set contains:

    Digital Tracks contain Restored Stereo Soundtrack
    Analog Track One (Left): Original Mono Tracks
    Analog Track Two (Right): Mono Music and Effects Track (Restored) also known as an M&E
    Second disc contains "The Making of A Masterpiece", 2 sides, CLV/CAV, 45 chapters
    43 page hard bound book" The Storybook and The Making of a Masterpiece"
    Lithograph of Animation Art

Probably "This is a Remastered Edition" is not a good thing as we thought in past times... but with all these extras, a preservation will be interesting!

Beauty and the Beast... yeah, probably important.  The problem when you get this modern is that it would be best synced to the BD restored audio track, not whatever is on the film.

Beauty and the Beast - laserdisc - from the LDDB related page:

26 minutes of supplemental material -- an Insiders look at "The Making of Beauty and the Beast".

CAV, letterbox, surround, plus extras...

Beauty and the Beast: Work in progress LD - from the LDDB related page:

Side 4 has 17 minutes of supplemental material including alternate versions of "Be Our Guest," camera test for the Ballroom scene, information on the technollogy used to create this film, Pencil tests, and Theatrical Trailer.

Interior gatefold includes liner notes on the production and stages of animation.

It will be interesting to make a preservation project using these two laserdiscs, and maybe add also Beauty and the Beast: Enchanted Christmas as bonus... (I know the last one is not a masterpiece, but adding it will make the BATB project complete)

The Lion King suffered serious reanimation of scenes, possibly worse than BatB ever did.  Someone would need to do a LDrip for that otherwise.

The Lion King - laserdisc box set - from the LDDB related page:

A wonderfully packaged box set loaded with special features: audio commentary, making-of documentary, storyboards, artwork, animation layouts, and much more. Included in the box is a portfolio of six concept art lithographs that are not as exciting as one might hope, but are nice to have nonetheless.

add to that a Dolby Digital soundtrack, and it could be a really interesting project to do.

Of course there is the question, what versions of Fantasia exist.

I have these ones:

Fantasia CAV laserdisc (no extras); and

Fantasia - laserdisc box set - from the LDDB related page:

Special Edition Box Set includes supplemental "Making of a Masterpiece" on Side 6, special lithographs, and other supplemental printed materials.

Only available version with the original Deems Taylor dialogue (in this case, the 120-minute 50th Anniversary re-release based on the 1947 General Release Version).
The Dolby Surround mix on the digital tracks is not mono compatible (it is suitable for surround or stereo playback only). For mono playback select the analog tracks (this mix is mono compatible). Analog sound is Stereo for Music, but Mono for Dialog.

It will be exciting to capture also the analog soundtrack...

While Aladdin has been poked and prodded in the audio department, I've seen screenshots of the EU Blu-ray and it looks pretty much identical to the old DVD.

I have this one: Aladdin CAV laserdisc

What about an Aladdin Trilogy? Adding Aladdin and the king of thieves and The return of Jafar...

_,,,^..^,,,_ said:

Cinderella was pretty much destroyed by the time it hit DVD.  The laserdisc isn't awful, it could just be better.

Cinderella - laserdisc box set - from the LDDB related page:

This is a Remastered Edition.

This Box Set contains:

    Digital Tracks contain Restored Stereo Soundtrack
    Analog Track One (Left): Original Mono Tracks
    Analog Track Two (Right): Mono Music and Effects Track (Restored) also known as an M&E
    Second disc contains "The Making of A Masterpiece", 2 sides, CLV/CAV, 45 chapters
    43 page hard bound book" The Storybook and The Making of a Masterpiece"
    Lithograph of Animation Art

Probably "This is a Remastered Edition" is not a good thing as we thought in past times... but with all these extras, a preservation will be interesting!

Restoration destruction is mostly a thing of the DVD era, imo.

Beauty and the Beast - laserdisc - from the LDDB related page:

26 minutes of supplemental material -- an Insiders look at "The Making of Beauty and the Beast".

CAV, letterbox, surround, plus extras...

Beauty and the Beast: Work in progress LD - from the LDDB related page:

Side 4 has 17 minutes of supplemental material including alternate versions of "Be Our Guest," camera test for the Ballroom scene, information on the technollogy used to create this film, Pencil tests, and Theatrical Trailer.

Interior gatefold includes liner notes on the production and stages of animation.

I have both of these and am working on procuring better caps than I am capable of.

 

The Lion King suffered serious reanimation of scenes, possibly worse than BatB ever did.  Someone would need to do a LDrip for that otherwise.

The Lion King - laserdisc box set - from the LDDB related page:

A wonderfully packaged box set loaded with special features: audio commentary, making-of documentary, storyboards, artwork, animation layouts, and much more. Included in the box is a portfolio of six concept art lithographs that are not as exciting as one might hope, but are nice to have nonetheless.

add to that a Dolby Digital soundtrack, and it could be a really interesting project to do.

Got this, and will be procuring a good cap of it too.  Only thing is being LD it's non-anamorphic, and it's cropped slightly to 1.85:1, but better than nothing.

While Aladdin has been poked and prodded in the audio department, I've seen screenshots of the EU Blu-ray and it looks pretty much identical to the old DVD.

I have this one: Aladdin CAV laserdisc

What about an Aladdin Trilogy? Adding Aladdin and the king of thieves and The return of Jafar...

I've got Aladdin CAV too.

At least Aladdin and the King of Thieves could use a preservation, but I think the R2FI is OAR (1.33)?  The R1 is, as I recall, tiltscanned.

As I wrote before in one thread of mine, I'd like to do these preservations, I have the skills now (or, at least I think I have them), the laserdiscs needed, the hardware (2nd best laserdisc player ever created, a quite good capture card, other hardware pieces that could come in handy if/when necessary like AC3 RF demodulator, excellent ADC to capture analog laserdisc soundtracks); the things I lack now are time (I devoted much time to my projects, still finishing JP2 and another one) and HDD space (all my HDDs are almost full)...

So, if you (and with you I intend the forum community) think I have the necessary skill, and are happy if I'll make these preservation projects, AND could wait (don't know how long... weeks? month? NOT years, this is for sure), please post into my thread, thanks!

Hope this thread remains as a guide for someone who's looking for the best version of a Disney animated feature, and that soon I could add one (or more) of my project to the list!

Hey, why not. ~.^

I'm more into the encoding side than the capping side, and it's where I've put most of my own focus.

The Little Mermaid: Seriously, do yourselves a favor and look at this comparison of the laserdisc and DVD releases: http://www.mediafire.com/download/0eb1209t913t4mx/The_Little_Mermaid.htm

I've since back pedaled on a lot I've said about the Platinum Edition (except the censorship and awful remix thing).  The colors for each scene pretty well match at least one of the previous releases (most often the first LD).

I can't imagine that TLM was in such terrible condition that they had to restore it as far as something like Snow White or Pinocchio.  The fact is, the colors of the Platinum Edition are just not that wrong.  It seems the first DVD may have been the problem.

I'm pretty happy with my restored version, but I certainly wouldn't fault anyone who felt that a better preservation was needed.

Aladdin: ADM's fixed edition of this will be on the loose again.  Fear not.

Dumbo: Disney you make me sad!  I took these snaps tonight.

60th Anniversary Preservation vs Bit Top Edition vs 70th Anniversary Edition

OMG! They all suck!

(downloadable screenshot comparison available in first post)

@penguinofgreatness - Thanks, link fixed.

I've also been thinking about doing something using the 60th video with the 70th audio track.

The 60th is a mix of progressive and interlaced and every reel change needs a resync.

But first I'm looking in to trying to deepen the colors so they are less pastel and darken the night scenes.

I just took a look at my Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs laserdisc.

There's a ton of gate weave. Would they have left that in (or put it back in) if they used that crazy reanimating process?

I know that it was "scanned into a computer" in 1993-94, but after taking a another look at it, I'm having trouble believing that it was reanimated like that Sleeping Beauty release.

penguinofgreatness: I'm not saying it wasn't digitally changed. I'm saying that the gate wave suggests that it wasn't entirely-reanimated like Sleeping Beauty.

That type of reanimation takes a very long time. There is no way they could have done it time for a 94 LD pressing.

Check the LD for signs of dirt on the frames BTW.