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ROTJ is the best Star Wars film... discuss!

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I've been reading alot of the fanedit forum's chat about proposed changes to ROTJ, dissatisfaction with the film and about the prequels being better. Here is the critical reaction pasted from Wikipedia...

Film Rotten Tomatoes Metacritic
Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope 94% (67 reviews)[85] 91 (13 reviews)[86]
Star Wars Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back 97% (71 reviews)[87] 78 (15 reviews)[88]
Star Wars Episode VI: Return of the Jedi 79% (66 reviews)[89] 52 (14 reviews)[90]
Star Wars Episode I: The Phantom Menace 57% (186 reviews)[91] 51 (36 reviews)[92]
Star Wars Episode II: Attack of the Clones 67% (218 reviews)[93] 53 (39 reviews)[94]
Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith 80% (253 reviews)[95] 68 (40 reviews)[96]
Star Wars: The Clone Wars 19% (153 reviews)[97] 35 (30 reviews)[98 

 

I guess I'm in the minority but by the slimest of margins I rate ROTJ as superior to ESB and the notion that ROTJ is inferior to the visual abortions that are the theatrical cuts of the PT seems like mass insanity.

I can't think of any moments in ESB or ANH that have me grinning like a kid again as some of the sequences in ROTJ.  I know on paper ESB is technicaly a better film but the tingles down my spine, wide eyed joy and warm fuzzy feeling elicited by ROTJ tell me different.

So I wanna hear from you ROTJ haters as to why you do hate it and I also wanna hear from those like me who love it.  Importantly I wanna hear why you love it because honestly I'm not 100% sure why I love it so much! I also wanna hear from other fan editors planning revisions to ROTJ why they feel so strongly that it needs changing.

Let the debate begin!

Ryan

VIZ TOP TIPS! - PARENTS. Impress your children by showing them a floppy disk and telling them it’s a 3D model of a save icon.

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Since Jedi is basically a "Best Of" the first two movies, I can see what you'd like about it. ;-)

But seriously, I would never rank it anywhere close to the prequels. It has some flaws, but what movies don't?

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In my personal belief ROTJ has the potential to be the best star wars film out of all of them it is just that, that potential needs to be realized and unlocked.

None of the prequels even come close to ROTJ in my opinion.

And ROTJ as it currently stands is not as good as Empire strikes back or A new hope... But by the time it comes to ROTJ:R prepare yourself for your jaw on the floor lol

Many people have worked on ideas for ways to improve ROTJ very hard and fleshed out an awful lot of ideas including myself Darth Ender, Dan editor is currently doing an edit Spence Edit paved the way for a better ROTJ in the final parts and played with new structure and I suggest you look for the collaborative thread as a wealth of information there.

Anyone who contributed to the Collaborative thread will tell you that there is a far better film waiting to emerge.

As for Ewoks, oh well you just have to accept them and grow to love them unlike Jar Jar Binks and gungans

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I don't mind the ewoks, never have.  People seems to see them as cute and totally ridiculous that they defeat the empire.

Well first they are introduced trying to cook and eat our heroes alive.  Not that cute.

And secondly they don't defeat the empire, the film shows them getting massacred.  But they do distract the empire long enough to aloow chewie to get hold of an atst etc.

Ryan

VIZ TOP TIPS! - PARENTS. Impress your children by showing them a floppy disk and telling them it’s a 3D model of a save icon.

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I don't think many of us "hate" ROTJ. Personally I find it suffers in comparison to the first two in a number of ways:

It feels like they're going through the motions. Lucas seems to just want to get it all over with, and the actors (except Hamill) are just pay checking it

It's too juvenile and toy-oriented

Han and Leia are given nothing meaningful to do

Fett dies embarrassingly

The ground battle on Endor is way too small and lacking in epic moments that the big finale should have

But it's not a bad movie per se, it's just bad compared with SW and Empire. Of course it's Casablanca compared with the prequels.

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"Fett dies embarrassingly" true.

"Of course it's Casablanca compared with the prequels" lovely quote.

Hamill is the core of the OT. Such a great actor, should have had a bigger career afterwards.

Ryan

VIZ TOP TIPS! - PARENTS. Impress your children by showing them a floppy disk and telling them it’s a 3D model of a save icon.

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Ryan McAvoy said:

 

I can't think of any moments in ESB or ANH that have me grinning like a kid again as some of the sequences in ROTJ.

I can see that line of thinking, but I don't watch films to feel like a kid again. I want to enjoy films through the eyes of an adult and ROTJs slapstick silliness and general goofiness (which isn't a part of the previous 2 films) makes that difficult. Something I love about Star Wars and Empire is that they are films I loved as a child and they really grew up with me. As I grew older, I found different things to appreciate about the story, the characters and the situations. ROTJ has so many silly moments, scenarios and characters that I feel like I'm watching a movie designed to sell action figures, plastic lunchboxes and plush dolls to little kids.

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I think it really comes down to this:

RotJ + Nostalgia = "The best SW movie"

On a purely subjective level, it's difficult to argue that RotJ is a better movie than the first two.

 Spoiler free for the ST

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I love "Jedi". I'm sure I watch it more than I watch "Empire."

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I certainly don't hate ROTJ, far from it in fact. It was the 1st OT film I saw at the cinema as a kid, so I will always love it on that basis alone. I don't think a film can be made entirely around the premise of selling merchandise (as some have said) but it was certainly lacking that 'something' the previous instalments had. Could it have been better? Offcourse. Everyone will have their own ideas of how they would've made it better, me included. But, it is was it is I'm afraid. A competent final act of an epic trilogy that should've been so much more but, regrettably, failed to live up to the previous instalments. (Especially part 2 lol)

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By the way, I've come to regard Frink as the 'Tom Highway' of this forum. Ya know, the grizzled ol' vet who's seen it all come n go. And who doesn't suffer fools gladly lol

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timdiggerm said:

TV's Frink said:

One thread move and merge, please.

Seconded

Well, one outta two ain't bad.

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Hey, it's me. said:

By the way, I've come to regard Frink as the 'Tom Highway' of this forum. Ya know, the grizzled ol' vet who's seen it all come n go. And who doesn't suffer fools gladly lol

I don't know what this means, so...thanks?

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TV's Frink said:

Hey, it's me. said:

By the way, I've come to regard Frink as the 'Tom Highway' of this forum. Ya know, the grizzled ol' vet who's seen it all come n go. And who doesn't suffer fools gladly lol

I don't know what this means, so...thanks?

You don't know who Tom Highway is?

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Hey, it's me. said:

TV's Frink said:

Hey, it's me. said:

By the way, I've come to regard Frink as the 'Tom Highway' of this forum. Ya know, the grizzled ol' vet who's seen it all come n go. And who doesn't suffer fools gladly lol

I don't know what this means, so...thanks?

You don't know who Tom Highway is?

Nope (Chuck Testa).  Doesn't seem like it's a real well known movie if I haven't heard of it. :p

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ROTJ is almost as bad as TPM.

Naturally this is an opinion of mine not a FACT.

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Now ya see, ya said Chuck Testa there which is obviously an American 'joke' I was totally unaware of. I looked it up and can't see the comedy in it. I suppose you had to be around at the time (shrug) if I started quoting Blackadder (I'm from the UK) and Red Dwarf you'd have no idea what I was going on about. Did you quote it to belittle me so other members would find it funny? Maybe I've got you all wrong?

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ROTJ is a poorly-conceived movie with ridiculous plot holes and a shoddy structure, that is totally rescued by the wonderful additions of two memorable characters: Jabba, and the Emperor.  Every scene with those characters in them are marvelous, and the juxtaposition of a wrinkly old evil sorceror with this high-tech space battle is fabulously done. The climactic scene with Vader, Luke, and the Emperor is on a par with anything in the OT. So despite its flaws, I still rank it close to SW and ESB.  I think anyone who puts ROTS even close to ROTJ must be looking through strange glasses - it's not even close.  My ratings:

SW - 10
ESB - 9.5
ROTJ - 8.5
TPM - 3
AOTC - 2
ROTS - 2

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Hey, it's me. said:

Now ya see, ya said Chuck Testa there which is obviously an American 'joke' I was totally unaware of. I looked it up and can't see the comedy in it. I suppose you had to be around at the time (shrug) if I started quoting Blackadder (I'm from the UK) and Red Dwarf you'd have no idea what I was going on about. Did you quote it to belittle me so other members would find it funny? Maybe I've got you all wrong?

But I've heard of Black Adder and Red Dwarf.

 

And I only said "Chuck Testa" so that xhonzi didn't have to.  Had nothing to do with you.

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Jabba and the Emperor were quality. Only 2 aspects of the film gave it a slight tinge of disappointment (I won't go into those) but they didnt detract from the overall enjoyment of the film. And your right, whoever puts ROTS close to Jedi needs a labotomy. Or has already had one.