logo Sign In

Official Star Wars newsletter from 1978 — Page 3

Author
Time
Post link
Again, If it's so weird that he would lie about it, wouldn't it make more sense to ponder the possiblity that he was misunderstood?

What's more important? Getting to the truth of the matter or being able to call Lucas a liar?
Your focus determines your reality.
Author
Time
Post link
That is an interesting point you typed out there.
Your focus determines your reality.
Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
I don't think Lucas is actually meaning to deny that he -ever- thought about doing more than 6 films, I think it's just the story he was originally planning to take 9 films, ended up taking 6. So anything he came up for beyond episode 6 while the plan was 9 films got rolled into the 6th chapter, hence now that the sith is destroyed, Lucas hasn't come up with what would happen next.

In that 1999 Vanity fair article, he actually says the plan is no longer 9 but 6, which means at least at that point he was being up front about it.

I think when he says he never came up with anything for a third trilogy, he just means he never came up with a storyline to follow ROTJ.


Aren't you sick of posting these same few sentences ad nauseam?

I know I'm tired of reading them.

Whether you're right or wrong, though being just an opinion it's neither right or wrong, don't you think by now the people you are arguing the same point over and over with aren't buying it. If you fell it necessary to continually state your case, may I suggest you take a fresh approach because posting the same thing doesn't seem to be working.

"Well here's a big bag of rock salt" - Patton Oswalt

Author
Time
Post link
I don't see how it's any different from my opposition's approach.
Your focus determines your reality.
Author
Time
Post link
You're quite right, but that's like a child saying "I hit him because he hit me". Two wrongs don't make a right.

I thought you might want to be the better man in all this. The arguments keep going round and round with no resolution. Everything is becoming PT vs OT.

Besides I think it's safe to say that you are a lone voice. Your argument is becoming a little stale because it's the only one from your side of the fence. The opposing argument is a little different as it's coming from a few rather than just one.

I'm not saying give up, maybe just change the repetitious approach.

"Well here's a big bag of rock salt" - Patton Oswalt

Author
Time
Post link
I guess if a better strategy presents itself, I'd be likely to try it out.

If being hit isn't a mature reason to hit back, I don't know what would be.
Your focus determines your reality.
Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic If being hit isn't a mature reason to hit back, I don't know what would be.

Ah, I see you edited your post to add that. I can edit my posts too.

Originally posted by: see you auntie Two wrongs don't make a right.



Didn't your mother ever teach you that as a child?

"Well here's a big bag of rock salt" - Patton Oswalt

Author
Time
Post link
Hitting someone back isn't a wrong, it's justified self defence.

But we are getting away from the original topic, which was about whether or not Lucas is actually lying about never having thought up a third trilogy, or if his words are being misunderdstood when taken out of context.
Your focus determines your reality.
Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic

But we are getting away from the original topic


Agreed.

But my analogy of the constant baiting and arguing were of children hitting back because they were hit. Children are hardly level headed or mature. And I feel I shouldn't have to explain my analogies as they are usual pretty simple.

<Back on topic>

"Well here's a big bag of rock salt" - Patton Oswalt

Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: see you auntie
Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic

But we are getting away from the original topic


Agreed.

But my analogy of the constant baiting and arguing were of children hitting back because they were hit. Children are hardly level headed or mature. And I feel I shouldn't have to explain my analogies as they are usual pretty simple.

<Back on topic>
Usual they are.

I would just like to say that while I do think Lucas is being misunderstood on this point, I do see why people would accuse him of lying.
Your focus determines your reality.
Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic Usual they are.



I know what you meant by that remark, but I won't bite.

And this thread needs to get back on topic.

"Well here's a big bag of rock salt" - Patton Oswalt

Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
Originally posted by: lordjedi
If we all just keep posting Lucas quotes, we can probably get Go-mer to leave. That's really all we have to do to point out that there was never any "grand plan" to begin with, despite what Lucas and Go-mer say today. I don't think there was a "grand plan", and Lucas said all he had was a small outline.


Actually, according to the quote, he said he had story treatments, not a "small outline". Maybe it wasn't a "grand plan", but then maybe he shouldn't go around saying "it was always meant to be that way". Things change, people change, just admit he wanted to change it and be done.

There's another guy that changed some things in one of his movies and said it was always suppose to be a kids movie and not contain anything to violent (something like that). He released the changed version along with the original (and the original wasn't considered "bonus material"). What was that guys name? Having trouble recalling it. Oh yes, Steven Spielberg. And the movie was ET

Originally posted by: Mr Bungle
In the forward to the Splinter of the Minds Eye book George is quoted in editions of the book as saying "That his story was too big to fit into one movie, and that he broke it up into three parts, The Original Trilogy, the further adventures, and the back story making a total of nine films"

I can well believe that there was more than 6 films planned back then, I just think he changed his mind, ran out of story or got fed up with SW at that point....


I think this pretty much nails it. I think there could easily have been 3 more movies after ROTJ, but he probably got tired of continuing the story. Luke and Leia could've not been siblings. Luke could easily have trained a new generation of Jedi over the course of 3 movies, which might've been necessary if he'd decided to leave the Emperor out of ROTJ and put him in IX.

GL himself pretty much said before ROTS came out that he was done with SW. He said something to the effect of being done and wanting to move on. He's done with doing these big budget films that everyone wants to see. He wants to go back to doing small, independent titles that do well enough but wouldn't necessarily be called blockbusters. Of course, now he wants to switch over and do TV, which I personally think is going to be even more difficult for him unless it's the currently planned SW tv shows.
F Scale score - 3.3333333333333335

You are disciplined but tolerant; a true American.

Pissing off Rob since August 2007.
Author
Time
Post link
I don't think he's denying coming up with the story treatments, he's just denying ever coming up with a storyline that would follow the story's resolution in ROTJ.

When he says all he had for the prequels was a rough outline, that's really all he had for the prequels.

I think the truth is as we all agree, and I think Lucas would agree with that assessment as well.

Your focus determines your reality.
Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
I don't think he's denying coming up with the story treatments, he's just denying ever coming up with a storyline that would follow the story's resolution in ROTJ.

Which is exactly what I said Go-Mer. If he had not been getting tired of SW by that point, he probably would have thought the script out a little more and not had Luke confronting both the Emperor and Vader (it probably would have been Vader alone or perhaps the Emperor escapes somehow). Then he could have continued the story beyond ROTJ into 3 more movies. A story that would have probably revolved around Luke searching for new Jedi candidates, rebuilding the order, and finishing off whatever was left of the Empire. Ya know, essentially what the EU books have done poorly.

Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
When he says all he had for the prequels was a rough outline, that's really all he had for the prequels.


When did he say this? Everything I've ever read said he had the entire backstory laid out. Now, I believe all he had were rough outlines based on what I've seen in the movies, but Lucas has always said that he had the whole story laid out.

Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
I think the truth is as we all agree, and I think Lucas would agree with that assessment as well.


I think Lucas would change his mind and say whatever's necessary to maintain what he believes to be true at any given moment, despite what he may have said in the past that completely contradicts it. You see, people aren't mad at him for changing his mind. We're mad at him for changing it and talking about it like it's always the way it was.
F Scale score - 3.3333333333333335

You are disciplined but tolerant; a true American.

Pissing off Rob since August 2007.
Author
Time
Post link
I think you have simply misunderstood him. I don't think he means to say he always had a rock solid plan for how these movies turned out.

I have seen plenty of other places where he has no trouble recalling the many changes he went through to get to what we now know as Star Wars. I think it was in one of the prequel commentary tracks where he talks about how he only had a rough outline for the prequels.

Where did you see Lucas ever saying he had more than the rough outline for the prequels?
Your focus determines your reality.
Author
Time
Post link
In every other interview I read in magazines or saw on TV. Each and every time he said he had the whole thing planned out. Everytime he said "I had this huge story and decided to take the middle portion and make it into the first trilogy and I put the first part on the shelf and figured I'd go back to that later". Sometimes he calls the middle story the second half and the prequels are the first half. That's usually what leads people to believe that there's a third trilogy sitting on a shelf in his office. I personally took it to mean he wrote the whole thing down and that as one story, it was just to big. If that's not what he meant, he shouldn't say that. Something great speakers will tell you is that if your audience misunderstands you, the problem isn't with the audience, the problem is with you as the speaker. Either you didn't say what you meant, or you said it in such a way that they thought you meant something else. It is up to you as the speaker to clearly convey your meaning to the audience. It is not up to the audience to "figure out" what you meant.

That is something you have no shortage of Go-Mer. You're constantly telling us "I don't think he meant it that way". If that's the case, he needs to tell us what he meant and not keep telling us something else.

I think a lot of this comes from the old video "From Star Wars to Jedi", but I'm not entirely sure about that. Some others around here with better memories than mine could probably tell you exactly what places he said it. I don't have the time or inclination to search the web or look through my old videos to find the exact quote, but I know I've heard it.

He also completely contradicts one of his own story elements in the prequel commentaries. In the commentary of AOTC, he clearly says "the dark side is stronger...at least in the short term". Yes, I could hear it coming as I watched the movies. Yes, it disturbs me that he said it. It almost invalidates what Yoda tells Luke in ESB "Is the dark side stronger?" "No, quicker, easier, more seductive". Thanks George. The lively debates I had with friends about which side was stronger came to an end at that point. There's no point trying to have a debate like that based on what Yoda says when you have the creator telling you otherwise. Again I say thanks George. This is minor, but it really pissed me off when I heard it. But this is way OT.

F Scale score - 3.3333333333333335

You are disciplined but tolerant; a true American.

Pissing off Rob since August 2007.
Author
Time
Post link
For one I do think a lot of the blame lies at Lucas' own feet, because he isn't the best public speaker. I don't think it's something he can help, he just isn't good at speaking publicly. So sure it's his fault for being unclear, but I think we could be a little nicer about understanding that misunderstandings can happen.

I think that when he started writing his concept for SW, it was too big, so he took part of it and made it into ANH. Then when that was successful, he started plugging more of what he originally came up with into the next two episodes of the classic trilogy, and was even at one point thinking of making the full story a 9 film cycle. But when he got to ESB/ROTJ, he suddenly realized he didn't want to spend that much of the rest of his life making SW movies, and by then he wasn't even sure he wanted to do more than 3 with all the headaches he was going through trying to make them happen, so he took the final resolution of the Emperor being vanquished and pushed it up to the 6th film.

When that happened, all the story treatments he had come up with for an eventual 3rd trilogy were rendered obsolete, because they all ended with the same resolution we got at the end of ROTJ: That the Sith had finally been vanquished. So while he had been thinking about doing a third trilogy, he had never come up with anything beyond the destruction of the Sith. To him, that's where the story ended, and he never took it further.

I also don't see the motivation for Lucas to lie. The man is the master of his own destiny and anwers to no-one. What purpose would lying about this stuff serve?

I also don't see the contradiction between Lucas saying the dark side is more powerful in the short term, because Yoda says it's quicker, easier, more seductive. That makes it more powerful in the short term, but lacking in the long term, which is pretty much what Yoda is saying too as far as I can tell.
Your focus determines your reality.
Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
For one I do think a lot of the blame lies at Lucas' own feet, because he isn't the best public speaker. I don't think it's something he can help, he just isn't good at speaking publicly. So sure it's his fault for being unclear, but I think we could be a little nicer about understanding that misunderstandings can happen.

I think that when he started writing his concept for SW, it was too big, so he took part of it and made it into ANH. Then when that was successful, he started plugging more of what he originally came up with into the next two episodes of the classic trilogy, and was even at one point thinking of making the full story a 9 film cycle. But when he got to ESB/ROTJ, he suddenly realized he didn't want to spend that much of the rest of his life making SW movies, and by then he wasn't even sure he wanted to do more than 3 with all the headaches he was going through trying to make them happen, so he took the final resolution of the Emperor being vanquished and pushed it up to the 6th film.

When that happened, all the story treatments he had come up with for an eventual 3rd trilogy were rendered obsolete, because they all ended with the same resolution we got at the end of ROTJ: That the Sith had finally been vanquished. So while he had been thinking about doing a third trilogy, he had never come up with anything beyond the destruction of the Sith. To him, that's where the story ended, and he never took it further.

I also don't see the motivation for Lucas to lie. The man is the master of his own destiny and anwers to no-one. What purpose would lying about this stuff serve?

I also don't see the contradiction between Lucas saying the dark side is more powerful in the short term, because Yoda says it's quicker, easier, more seductive. That makes it more powerful in the short term, but lacking in the long term, which is pretty much what Yoda is saying too as far as I can tell.


I more or less agree with this. Lucas' lying nowadays however, is mostly due to him covering up previous lies--he claimed in the late 70's and early 80's that he had devised a 9 film saga, with full treatments, and in some Lucasfilm publicity material it even leads one to believe there are forms of scripts for these stories. What obviously happened is that he got excited about the overnight explosive success of Star Wars, and came up with the concept of a larger series, perhaps with some broad story points in mind, but not anything too specific. I think his justification of making the saga out to be some big pre-written epic at that time was that he felt pressure from the public--the film was hailed as the greatest motion picture ever made and Lucas a storytelling genius. Rather than saying he was mostly making it up as he went he put forth the image that the series was in capable and knowing hands and was following a precise, intentional blueprint devised long ago--the fact that he had genuinely developed lots of background material only encouraged this talk. Then of course the reality of shooting set in and he realised after the disaster of ESB that making a huge series was more work than it was worth, so he decided to relegate the immediate series to the contractually-bound trilogy, with a vague notion of perhaps returning to do prequels at some point in the future due to the fact that he had developed a very interesting back-story.
Author
Time
Post link
I really don't think he's actually denying that he ever thought of a third trilogy, just that he hadn't thought of a storyline past the end of the Sith.

What does a "treatment" usually mean?
Your focus determines your reality.
Author
Time
Post link
How was ESB a disaster? I know it went over budget, but didn't it also make more money than ANH? I'm sure there was the stress of making a successfull sequel, but other than that, how could any of it be considered a disaster? It was a successful sequel and it guaranteed him the ability to make another movie. If anything, I'd say that ANH was a bigger disaster. He had to redo all the FX shots when he got back from England, fire his entire FX team, and do all kinds of things with almost no time left before the release. But again, it made a ton of money, so in the grand scheme of things, even it wasn't a disaster.
F Scale score - 3.3333333333333335

You are disciplined but tolerant; a true American.

Pissing off Rob since August 2007.
Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
I really don't think he's actually denying that he ever thought of a third trilogy

Forum Moderator
Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: lordjedi
How was ESB a disaster? I know it went over budget, but didn't it also make more money than ANH? I'm sure there was the stress of making a successfull sequel, but other than that, how could any of it be considered a disaster? It was a successful sequel and it guaranteed him the ability to make another movie. If anything, I'd say that ANH was a bigger disaster. He had to redo all the FX shots when he got back from England, fire his entire FX team, and do all kinds of things with almost no time left before the release. But again, it made a ton of money, so in the grand scheme of things, even it wasn't a disaster.


It went over six weeks overschedule, the budget nearly doubled during filming, crew members were sick and injured, John Berry died during filming, Hamill hated the shoot and was the only actor on set for a month, all sorts of mechanical failures occured, ILM was pushed almost past its limits, Gary Kurtz and George Lucas was split up and Carrie Fisher was going through a heavy coke addiction at the time. It was very much a disaster in its production, even if it wasn't an elaborate disaster the way, say Apocalyse Now or Alien 3 was.