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OT: No Lightsabres for Yoda or The Emperor

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Why do you think that Yoda and the Emperor were never implied to have lightsabres in the OT?

Why do you think that changed in the PT?

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xhonzi said:

Why do you think that Yoda and the Emperor were never implied to have lightsabres in the OT?

Why do you think that changed in the PT?

There are many reasons Yoda didn't have a lightsaber in the OT: Plot-wise, he knew Dagobah to be a safe hiding place so he had no need to carry one.  Storytelling-wise, it would have been a dead giveaway for this anonymous crazy swamp creature to be carrying a lightsaber (Luke: "Oh jeeze!  I shoulda known you were Yoda!  The lightsaber!  Duh!") And just visually, Yoda would have looked ridiculous with a lightsaber so it was left out of any design consideration.

Similarly with the Emperor: he knows he is always safe in his surroundings, and the "reveal" of his powers would have had less impact if he didn't seem physically defenseless before.

My PT memory is foggy, but neither of them are in "always safe" surroundings, there's no mystery about their powers or identity (there was a mystery about the Emperor's identity to other characters, but never to the viewer), and looking ridiculous was no longer sufficient reason for excluding something from the movies.

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xhonzi said:


Why do you think that Yoda and the Emperor were never implied to have lightsabres in the OT?

Why do you think that changed in the PT?
In the OT, they were the masters of the Force and that's all they needed. In the PT, Lucas wanted to see them fight because he could.

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Tubbs (watching the PT) says :

Lights, colours, lines!

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SFX limitations at the time may have played a part in OT Yoda being lightsaberless, but there's no similar reason for Palpatine to have been without one; if McDiarmid could have held a lightsaber prop in 2000-whatever, then he sure as hell could have held one back in the '80s.

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I agree with doubleofive.

I always thought the reason they had no lightsabers was because they were so powerful with the force that lightsabers would be primitive in comparison.

I remember everyone cheering in the cinema when Yoda took out his lightsaber in AOTC, but I don't think that suited him as the character he is.

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They didn't need the physical weapon. It served them no purpose as they were masters of the Force.

But nooooo...we just couldn't keep it that way could we?

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Yoda would look nasty electrocuting Dooku or Force throwing stuff at him. Ditto for the Palpatine battle. It would be like the hero in an old western shooting the bad guy in the back. It simply isn't kosher. ;)

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doubleofive said:

 

xhonzi said:


Why do you think that Yoda and the Emperor were never implied to have lightsabres in the OT?

Why do you think that changed in the PT?
In the OT, they were the masters of the Force and that's all they needed.

 

But haven't we all arrived at that conclusion BECAUSE they didn't use lightsabers?  Between the two options, I think it was a more unusual thing to see them without lightsabers.  If they had been filmed with sabers originally, I don't think people would be wondering why Lucas didn't film them without.

It is hard to unlearn what you have learned.  Seeing Yoda and the Emperor with lightsabers in the classic trilogy is tough for me to imagine, but that is just because me brain is trained that way.  I don't have the experience of seeing it the other way.

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the Jedi are all but wiped out in the Original Trilogy why would either need to carry a saber on them? The Emperor was well guarded and could use darkside powers  on any would be opponent, his only real threat would have been Vader , and that was only once Luke's existence became known to them, although by that stage Palpatine's arrogance probably meant he had no reason to wield a saber.

Yoda , living in Exile on Dagobah , might have had some day to day practical uses for a saber, but I always pictured him as more of a monk like character living in peace with his surroundings and using his other senses to protect himself from predators, and besides, he was a puppet too so it would have been beyond limitations for him to wield a saber.

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Yoda was a "live hands" puppet. If he could wack Artoo with his cane he could have used a lightsaber.

Even a Skeksis can swing a sword. ;)

Yoda may not even have brought a saber with him to Dagobah, or it's long since become useless in that climate.

 

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its funny seeing that AOTC behind the scenes clip of lucas telling john knoll "we see the little green guy pulling olut that laser sword and goin' to town - and thats what everyone's been wanting to see"

couple things - i know a lot of fans that wanted to see an epic showdown between yoda and the emperor, but i dont recall a single fan saying they wanted to see yoda with a lightsaber.  i don't recall seeing any fan art of yoda with a lightsaber prior to 2000.  it made for a great moment in AOTC and brought the house down.  at the time it was the only pop-culture moment that the PT had on par with great moments from the OT.  BUT ONLY BECAUSE IT WAS YODA and because of the OT!  if it was coleman trebor or any other cgi jedi, nobody would have given a shit.

secondly, lucas says 'and thats what everyone wants to see'  wait a minute - i thought lucas didn't give a shit about the fans and he does whats in the best interest of the story, good or bad.

right?????

 

as for the emperor - would have been nice to see him fight without a lightsaber.  and not see dooku with lightning.  the setup in ROTJ where he is talking ot luke gives you the idea that he is above and beyond lightsabers

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doubleofive said:

 

xhonzi said:


Why do you think that Yoda and the Emperor were never implied to have lightsabres in the OT?

Why do you think that changed in the PT?
In the OT, they were the masters of the Force and that's all they needed. In the PT, Lucas wanted to see them fight because he could.

 

I agree. I honestly hope Adywan gets rid of the lightsabers for both characters. As has been said by other posters, the lightsaber doesn't really suit Yoda, and Palpatine becomes a cackling moron once he pulls his out.

Something Lucas doesn't seem to understand is that the ambiguity about how they would fight contributed to Yoda and the Emperor being great characters in the OT. Yoda's "do not underestimate the powers of the Emperor" is possibly the most chilling line of ROTJ, cause at that point, the viewer literally knows nothing about the Emperor's powers, except that they're very fearsome.

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I'm sure Palpatine had a saber hidden in his robe if push came to shove. Yoda was dying, he probably retired his saber.

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xhonzi said:


Why do you think that Yoda and the Emperor were never implied to have lightsabres in the OT?

Why do you think that changed in the PT?
Lucas lost his marbles betwwen the OT and the PT.

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TV's Frink said:

 

xhonzi said:


Why do you think that Yoda and the Emperor were never implied to have lightsabres in the OT?

Why do you think that changed in the PT?
Lucas lost his marbles betwwen the OT and the PT.

 

Ding!

I mean, if you can shoot lightning from your fingers and can aim it well enough to nail a guy across the room, a lightsaber is a real step down as a weapon.  An I've never bought how in the PT this lightning can be blocked with a lightsaber.  Unless lightsabers can somehow, like, magnetize all the lightning into the blade, it seems like all Dooku or Sidious would have to do is, like, aim the lightning away from the lightsaber in their fights.  It also makes Luke seem like an idiot for throwing his away - I always felt that Luke would have had his ass kicked by the Emperor with or without the damn lightsaber.  

lightning from fingers > lightsaber

being green and cool and wise and strong with the force > lightsaber

That’s impossible, even for a computer.

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I wouldn't have minded seeing Yoda with a lightsaber had it been in a flashback when he was far younger, and without all that stupid hopping and growling.

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I liked Red Letter Media's commentary on this, showing Yoda in ESB talking about the Force intercut with various scenes from the prequels:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iq0wv2ossJU

Starts at 4:30.

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xhonzi said:


Why do you think that Yoda and the Emperor were never implied to have lightsabres in the OT?


Because it was a bad idea.

xhonzi said:


Why do you think that changed in the PT?


Because it was a bad idea. ;-)

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I do like Sluggo's case:  that we probably would not have been questioning this had the OT had it.  That said, I'm firmly in the camp that they were better without them.  That they were better and stronger than that.  That, to me, it defined the difference between a Jedi Knight (Ben Kenobi:  warrior, out-in-the-field having adventures) and a Jedi Master (Yoda:  thinking, teaching, philosophizing), an idea that the prequels also shat upon.  Those may have been ideas I conjured up due to the fact that those characters didn't have lightsabers in the OT, but they sure as hell work better than what we got.

Makes me wonder, though.  We've seen evidence of Yoda giving Luke lightsaber training in pre-production art for ESB.  If they had worked lightsabers into Yoda as far back as that, how would George have "upped the anti" for the prequels in that scenario?  Might have been far worse.

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I know I always wondered what it would look like if Yoda fought Palpatine and all they used were force powers.

That question was answered when I watched HP and the Order of the Phoenix.

Dumbledore vs Voldemort was what I wanted to see happen in ROTS.

but alas no

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Gaffer Tape said:


Makes me wonder, though.  We've seen evidence of Yoda giving Luke lightsaber training in pre-production art for ESB.  If they had worked lightsabers into Yoda as far back as that, how would George have "upped the anti" for the prequels in that scenario?  Might have been far worse.


Given Yoda the ability to fly. :shudder:

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Saber or no saber issues aside, I have to give George one bit of credit. He's kept Yoda's origins shrouded in mystery.

We still don't even know his species in an era where every Cantina creature has a backstory.

A certain bounty hunter lost some of his mystique once we knew way too much about him. ;)

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SilverWook said:

Saber or no saber issues aside, I have to give George one bit of credit. He's kept Yoda's origins shrouded in mystery.

We still don't even know his species in an era where every Cantina creature has a backstory.

A certain bounty hunter lost some of his mystique once we knew way too much about him. ;)

Agree, but putting in Yaddle kind of took away from that.  She made Yoda less unique and was a meaningless character that didn't add anything to the story.