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OFFICIAL: Library of Congress had original prints replaced with 1997 SE — Page 2

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TServo2049 said:

Tobar said:

Sigh, click on his picture....

"The successful re-release of Mr. Lucas’ STAR WARS Trilogy Special Edition in early 1997 helped to highlight the necessity of the preservation of contemporary titles."

*facepalm*

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Ugh.  Just watched that.  Does Lucas even hear the words that come out of his mouth?  Oh, wait, I forgot.  Film preservation only matters when it comes to films that aren't his.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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As a frequent Lucas and Lucasfilm defender, upon reading this article allow me to say...

Fuck George Lucas.

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Some one needs to make a video with the

Nazi book burning seen from Indiana Jones and the last crusade. And digitally put George Lucas’s face over Adolf Hitler’s face. And digitally replace the Books with old VHS, and LD's   of the original trilogy.

 

 

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Just to contribute something to this conversation, is the title thread correct?  As far as the article says, it sounds like Lucas attempted to contribute the SEs for preservation, but the NFR said no.  Or is that just for ESB?  I remember that zombie's source said they had the '97 version, but everything else in the article suggests they wouldn't have taken it anyway.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Gaffer Tape wrote: As far as the article says, it sounds like Lucas attempted to contribute the SEs for preservation, but the NFR said no.

Yeah I think a piece is missing.  zombie can confirm.  SW was inducted into the NFA and a copy of the 1977 was contributed.  This was late 80s early 90s (pre-SE).  But when working on the SE, Lucasfilm asked for the copy back(?), and it was given.(?)  When the LoC asked for it to be returned, that's when the SE print was submitted.(?)  Which the NFA still has.(?)  Or the NFA said no too is confusing to me as well.  I'm guessing the LoC accepted the SE as any print is worth having, but don't consider it fulfilling the promise of the SW NFA induction. 

As ESB was just inducted the end of last year, it's probably safe to say that no version has been offered or submitted.

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None, I know you had a few correspondences with this Steve Leggit, so maybe he told you something I don't know about.

This is what my inside source told me:

-SW was selected in 1989

-When they asked for a print, Lucas dragged his heels, talking about restoration needed (probably around 1992, 1993, when they were about to begin work on the SE)

-By the time he gave them a print, it was the 1997

According to the LoC librarian Zoran Sinobad, they didn't accept this, as it was in conflict with the legislation. This echoes what Steve Leggit also said.

So, it seems they never had it.

Furthermore, the condition of the copies outside the NFR, in the copyright depository, is not in good condition. ANH has some scratches but otherwise seems fine, but ESB has severe colour fading. There is no info on ROTJ. There is also a 1979 print of SW with subtitles for the deaf, with no info on that either.

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 (Edited)

What about the IB Technicolor print that the LoC had but returned to its owner because they couldn't make a good-looking copy of it? I'm assuming the owner was a private collector? (Could it have been the same print that was shown at the Baltimore screening?)

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As Toht once said, "The man is nefarious."

This really proves what a fucking asshole this man has become. 

We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions. 

Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com

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TServo2049 said:

What about the IB Technicolor print that the LoC had but returned to its owner because they couldn't make a good-looking copy of it? I'm assuming the owner was a private collector? (Could it have been the same print that was shown at the Baltimore screening?)

It was a private one. Probably Fox didn't have any in their vault material, but the restorationists at LoC knew of a private print they could borrow, which didn't work out. Film preservation is based in large part on the private community, so it's unspokenly tolerated and maybe even encouraged.

It wasn't the one that was screened at Baltimore (the source told me this). There are a few I.B. prints out there, I know of at least three but there is probably much more, as the source also seemed to be under the impression that the entire British run was in Technicolor. But the problem is that Technicolor prints can't easily be preserved. If you have millions of dollars and weeks to work on it, then yes you can do it, but in terms of sort of quick-and-dirty transfer it's not that simple.

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Wonder if the dates of the copyright depository prints is significant. Maybe the one for Star Wars was actually pretty new when they acquired it, 'early 78 would be when the theaters started really needing new ones, whereas Oct. 80, that could be like, an Empire that played a drive-in all summer. June '83 ought to be pretty good for Jedi, I would hope. Anyway much thanks for this, zombie.

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I agree the article might could use a little tweaking to be more clear. The response I got from the LoC, to me, sounded like they don't have any copies of the films in the NFR and never did. They requested STAR WARS, but were only offered the '97 SE & declined to accept it. I can't speak for the Technicolor print as they haven't mentioned that in my brief correspondence so far. They do have all three films in the copyright depository, but they are in questionable condition at best and are apparently only to be used for copyright disputes. This may answer why they don't just transfer the copyright prints to the NFR...legally, they probably can't.

Actually, on second reading of the article, I think the following paragraph sums up what seems to have happened pretty well... Maybe there's a way to emphasize this part?:

"So, it seems that in the early 1990s when they requested a print Lucas dragged his feet about restoration work (probably because they were starting to work on the Special Edition), and when they finally offered them one it was the 1997 Special Edition. Meanwhile, a privator donor leant a 1977 Technicolor print for archiving, but it couldn't be copied and was returned."

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One thing I'd change about the article is your use of the word, 'historical'.

I know Star Wars is set a long time ago but I think you mean, 'historic'.

As for the frankly shocking revelation that Lucas tried to use the Library Of Congress to re-write cinema history, there really should be some sort of legislation to compel him to hand over the real films.

The British Library has to by law be given a copy of any publication with an ISBN number.

Something similar should happen here.

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Checkmate. We might as well shut down the site. Thousands buy the mutilated versions, and the original prints are going to be destroyed despite all our efforts. When has writing to your congressman ever worked? We don't want it to happen, but it happened anyway...

Every time I hear about GL, he hits a new low for me. He will be victorious, and none of you cannot deny that anymore. 

PS I don't care about your rebuttals.

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generalfrevious said:

Checkmate. We might as well shut down the site. Thousands buy the mutilated versions, and the original prints are going to be destroyed despite all our efforts. When has writing to your congressman ever worked? We don't want it to happen, but it happened anyway...

Every time I hear about GL, he hits a new low for me. He will be victorious, and none of you cannot deny that anymore. 

PS I don't care about your rebuttals.

PPS Good! Then please go away. You and other naysayers are useless, bring nothing to the table and certainly won't be missed. You cannot deny that, either.

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Nothing can still compete with money and power; I wasn't pissed off until I heard the news about the absence of originals in the LOC. This means our one trump card is gone. And don't think it can be preserved in another country- LFL has gained so much power now that they can destroy any copy in the world with no regard to international law. YOU cannot escape that. I try to tell you the harsh truth the GL will always have the upper hand, and that no voice is loud enough to stop him from destroying the OOT, it will cease to exist in ten years, and deep down YOU can do nothing about it. Yet you call me an asshole, and treat me with hostility and I am sick and tired of it. I came here for solace, and I am harshly criticized every single time. I want these movies saved as much as the next person, but the truth is that it will never happen. I don't want this to happen as much as you do.

We can do nothing, that is a fact. I honestly wish it were othewise.

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*sigh* This really is a dark time for the Rebellion.

http://images.fanedit.org/images/FE%3C3OT/fe-ot1_signature.png

The franchises I get nerdy about are so obscure that not even most nerds know about them.

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 (Edited)

there is always hope

 

Nosferatu

Nosferatu

What's interesting is how the world almost lost the chance to see Nosferatu at all. Unfortunately for production company Prana Films, this unlicensed adaptation of Dracula was too thinly veiled, and Florence Stoker, widow of the late Bram Stoker, sued with the help of lawyers from the British Incorporated Society of Authors.

However, Stoker and the BISA weren't the only people pursuing Prana-Films: Prana was a sinking ship running aground on a financial reef. Just as the BISA sued Prana, it went into receivership and all materials and debts were taken over by the Deutsch-Amerikansch Film Union. The BISA then pursued the Film Union and demanded that all copies of Nosferatu be surrendered. In July 1925, the issue was settled and all known copies of Nosferatu were handed over to Stoker, and destroyed.

Or so Stoker thought. In October of that year, the Film Society in England asked her to endorse a classic film festival, and first on the list was the infamous Nosferatu. Stoker was furious and demanded that the Society give her their copy, but the Film Society refused and legalities followed. By 1928 Universal Pictures owned the screen rights for Dracula, and therefore all adaptations of it, including Nosferatu. Initially, Universal allowed the Film Society to keep the print, but after pressure from Florence Stoker they acquired the print, and it joined its departed kin in 1929. Then came a sudden spurt of American copies of the film under the name Nosferatu the Vampire, but Universal had them all destroyed in 1930. It finally seemed as though this pesky film had met its end.

This was not the case though. Following Florence Stoker's death in 1937, copies of the film started cropping up again, as if the celluloid itself was among the immortal undead.

Nosferatu truly regained its popularity in 1960 due to American television screenings, and in 1972 Blackhawk Films released the uncut original to the collector's market as Nosferatu the Vampire, which brings us up today. Now, due to it's availability via the Public Domain, it's damn near impossible to find a DVD horror collection that doesn't have a copy of Nosferatu!

See the hole thing here.

 

http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=100136707839&topic=13013&post=64427

 

 
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 (Edited)

Agreed, Pennsylvania! I too was relying on the prints in the Library of Congress. It's completely disappointing how insanely hypocritical GL is. I always thought he was holding the originals back, only to eventually release it to gain cash; however, his absurd "seek and destroy" method suggests otherwise. I do hope prints survive. It really does seem like a pretty bleak horizon.

Also, about bkev's idea of GL putting it in his will, that's completely plausible. In fact, I believe his will specifies that Star Wars 7-9 can never be made, so preventing the originals from release could also be something there. The only question is would it be binding when the copyright expires?

In fact, I suppose it's now that I really see the value in the Legacy project. If a 4K Restored Version exists somewhere for future reference when GL has less power, then all will not be lost.

EDIT: I suppose Nosferatu is an uplifting story. However, think how many films from back then were completely lost due to ill preservation. Various original cuts of The Phantom of the Opera and the sequel to Birth of a Nation are movies that will most probably be never seen again... Star Wars may one day become a lost film, replaced by a hamfistedly edited version.

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The BFI still has original prints, doesn't it?

And let's back off the petty bickering, okay?

Forum Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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SilverWook said:

The BFI still has original prints, doesn't it?

Oh really? Well that's good news. :-)

And let's back off the petty bickering, okay?

If I, for one, came of as aggressive, I do apologize. That was never my intention. My bringing up of the Legacy Project was not designed to fuel argument.

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red5-626 said:

there is always hope

 

Nosferatu

Nosferatu

What's interesting is how the world almost lost the chance to see Nosferatu at all. Unfortunately for production company Prana Films, this unlicensed adaptation of Dracula was too thinly veiled, and Florence Stoker, widow of the late Bram Stoker, sued with the help of lawyers from the British Incorporated Society of Authors.

However, Stoker and the BISA weren't the only people pursuing Prana-Films: Prana was a sinking ship running aground on a financial reef. Just as the BISA sued Prana, it went into receivership and all materials and debts were taken over by the Deutsch-Amerikansch Film Union. The BISA then pursued the Film Union and demanded that all copies of Nosferatu be surrendered. In July 1925, the issue was settled and all known copies of Nosferatu were handed over to Stoker, and destroyed.

Or so Stoker thought. In October of that year, the Film Society in England asked her to endorse a classic film festival, and first on the list was the infamous Nosferatu. Stoker was furious and demanded that the Society give her their copy, but the Film Society refused and legalities followed. By 1928 Universal Pictures owned the screen rights for Dracula, and therefore all adaptations of it, including Nosferatu. Initially, Universal allowed the Film Society to keep the print, but after pressure from Florence Stoker they acquired the print, and it joined its departed kin in 1929. Then came a sudden spurt of American copies of the film under the name Nosferatu the Vampire, but Universal had them all destroyed in 1930. It finally seemed as though this pesky film had met its end.

This was not the case though. Following Florence Stoker's death in 1937, copies of the film started cropping up again, as if the celluloid itself was among the immortal undead.

Nosferatu truly regained its popularity in 1960 due to American television screenings, and in 1972 Blackhawk Films released the uncut original to the collector's market as Nosferatu the Vampire, which brings us up today. Now, due to it's availability via the Public Domain, it's damn near impossible to find a DVD horror collection that doesn't have a copy of Nosferatu!

See the hole thing here.

 

 

http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=100136707839&topic=13013&post=64427

 

 

Nosferatu is actually the first silent film I can recall ever watching. I was home sick from school one day in 1976(?), and it ran on a PBS station in the middle of the day. (Go figure.) Scared the crap out of me!

I need to find that recent horror film that suggests actor Max Schreck was a real life bloodsucker! ;)

Forum Moderator

Where were you in '77?