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My thoughts on various changes — Page 2

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Sometimes the fact that these discussions are even possible makes me hate the SE more than not having an official OUT makes me hate the SE.

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TV’s Frink said:

Sometimes the fact that these discussions are even possible makes me hate the SE more than not having an official OUT makes me hate the SE.

+1

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adywan said:

Anakin Starkiller said:

The Good:
-Hayden as Anakin’s ghost. It doesn’t make sense for him to appear as an unscarred Shaw because he never looked like that.

And yet you think it makes sense for him to appear in the Jedi robes that he never wore? And how the hell would Luke even recognise him. It makes more sense for him to be Shaw than it does Hayden.

If Shaw is used, this is the only version Luke would recognize:

Who is the more foolish, the fool, or the one who follows him?

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 (Edited)

ZeeverFett said:

If Shaw is used, this is the only version Luke would recognize:

He would recognise him more than some mop haired kid that just appears. Just a couple of scars and no hair doesn’t make him unrecognisable at all. Information is not easily available under the oppression of a regime like the Empire. He couldn’t just look up information about his father. The Emperor would have suppressed all of that. If it was so easy for Luke to look up info on his father, then it wouldn’t have been too hard for him to discover that he became Vader.

Anakin appearing as his younger self is ridiculous. So, one of the most evil men in the galaxy can suddenly return to his youth, while the other two jedi have to remain their older selves? And the fan theories about how he returns to his form when he was last a good man is also ridiculous. Not only is he NOT a good man on the light side of the force when he looked like that, ( He had already begun on the path to the dark side, He had, after all, slaughtered a whole village of Tuskens, including the women and children, out of anger long before he looked like that), but that also completely destroys the whole redemption arc of ROTJ. Anakin turns back to the light side prior to his death. Him becoming a force ghost originally symbolised that. Before the rubbish that they had to learn it, which Anakin had no knowledge of, so couldn’t have become a force ghost. God, the prequels screwed so much up in the OT

ANH:REVISITED
ESB:REVISITED

DONATIONS TOWARDS MATERIALS FOR THE REVISITED SAGA

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adywan said:

ZeeverFett said:

If Shaw is used, this is the only version Luke would recognize:

He would recognise him more than some mop haired kid that just appears. Just a couple of scars and no hair doesn’t make him unrecognisable at all. Information is not easily available under the oppression of a regime like the Empire. He couldn’t just look up information about his father. The Emperor would have suppressed all of that. If it was so easy for Luke to look up info on his father, then it wouldn’t have been too hard for him to discover that he became Vader.

Anakin appearing as his younger self is ridiculous. So, one of the most evil men in the galaxy can suddenly return to his youth, while the other two jedi have to remain their older selves? And the fan theories about how he returns to his form when he was last a good man is also ridiculous. Not only is he NOT a good man on the light side of the force when he looked like that, ( He had already begun on the path to the dark side, He had, after all, slaughtered a whole village of Tuskens, including the women and children, out of anger long before he looked like that), but that also completely destroys the whole redemption arc of ROTJ. Anakin turns back to the light side prior to his death. Him becoming a force ghost originally symbolised that. Before the rubbish that they had to learn it, which Anakin had no knowledge of, so couldn’t have become a force ghost. God, the prequels screwed so much up in the OT

!

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DuracellEnergizer said:

Anakin Starkiller said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

Funny how nobody – absolutely nobody – complained about Shaw-as-Anakin not making any sense/being confusing until the Hayden change was introduced.

Because up until a year a two before he was added, nobody knew what a young Anakin looked like. It’s a retroactive plot hole, but an inevitable one, when making the Prequels.

So in your mind, the octogenarian standing with Yoda and Ben at the end of pre-'04 versions of ROTJ was meant to represent a young Anakin? ROTFLMAO.

I wish you’d just admit you prefer Hayden in ROTJ because you were introduced to SW through the PT & SEs; I’d respect your opinion were that the case. Instead you resort to post hoc fanwanking, which only makes you look foolish and silly.

There’s nothing to admit to. I already told you my true reasoning. I always try not to allow nostalgia to affect my opinion of anything.

If Shaw’s ghost wasn’t supposed to be young Anakin, then who was it? It’s not the old Anakin we see when Vader is unmasked, because he has hair, a natural skin tone, and Jedi Robes (though whether that last one matters is debatale).

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ZeeverFett said:

adywan said:

Anakin Starkiller said:

The Good:
-Hayden as Anakin’s ghost. It doesn’t make sense for him to appear as an unscarred Shaw because he never looked like that.

And yet you think it makes sense for him to appear in the Jedi robes that he never wore? And how the hell would Luke even recognise him. It makes more sense for him to be Shaw than it does Hayden.

If Shaw is used, this is the only version Luke would recognize:

Finally someone who gets it! That said, Adywan’s right about Luke probably being able to recognise him unscarred. My point is just that I don’t see why he would appear that way in the first place.

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 (Edited)

adywan said:

ZeeverFett said:

If Shaw is used, this is the only version Luke would recognize:

He would recognise him more than some mop-haired kid that just appears. Just a couple of scars and no hair doesn’t make him unrecognizable at all. Information is not easily available under the oppression of a regime like the Empire. He couldn’t just look up information about his father. The Emperor would have suppressed all of that. If it was so easy for Luke to look up info on his father, then it wouldn’t have been too hard for him to discover that he became Vader.

Anakin appearing as his younger self is ridiculous. So, one of the most evil men in the galaxy can suddenly return to his youth, while the other two jedi have to remain their older selves? And the fan theories about how he returns to his form when he was last a good man is also ridiculous. Not only is he NOT a good man on the light side of the force when he looked like that, ( He had already begun on the path to the dark side, He had, after all, slaughtered a whole village of Tuskens, including the women and children, out of anger long before he looked like that), but that also completely destroys the whole redemption arc of ROTJ. Anakin turns back to the light side prior to his death. Him becoming a force ghost originally symbolized that. Before the rubbish that they had to learn it, which Anakin had no knowledge of, so couldn’t have become a force ghost. God, the prequels screwed so much up in the OT

No sir, imagine Luke visiting his father for the first time, and Anakin has stage 4 cancer. He is not able to spend a lot of time with him before he dies. He then goes and sees a picture in a family photo album of his mother standing next to other family members and a guy he doesn’t quite recognize. His mother mentions to him that the man in the photo is his father who just passed. Luke has to do a double take because the man in the photo doesn’t look a thing like the man he went to the hospital to meet after his chemo treatments.

Debunk numero Dos, Obi-Wan was able to watch Anakin via hologram from the jedi temple archives, surely you cannot tell me that Obi didn’t download and store anything on a USB 3.0 thumbdrive… Come one Ady… logic would dictate that they were able to do such things.

Luke should not be able to recognize neither Hayden nor Sebastian, only Uncle Fester. I am not in the camp that believes the whole young Anakin force ghost, but the Normal looking Sebastian is ridiculous as well. It only makes sense to the audience that Hayden show up as Anakin, but cause that is who we identify as Anakin, not Sebastian. But if they were to add a shot in ANH where Luke could see his jedi version of his father before he turned (the tusken incident was not a full turn in my opinion) in hologram form from the Jedi Temple surveilance holograms, then it would make more sense for Luke to be able to recognize a younger version of Anakin. The Emperor deleted everything about Anakin after Yoda and Obi left the temple so that no one would learn the man behind Vader.

Thank you for your response mate!

Who is the more foolish, the fool, or the one who follows him?

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Anakin Starkiller said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

Anakin Starkiller said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

Funny how nobody – absolutely nobody – complained about Shaw-as-Anakin not making any sense/being confusing until the Hayden change was introduced.

Because up until a year a two before he was added, nobody knew what a young Anakin looked like. It’s a retroactive plot hole, but an inevitable one, when making the Prequels.

So in your mind, the octogenarian standing with Yoda and Ben at the end of pre-'04 versions of ROTJ was meant to represent a young Anakin? ROTFLMAO.

I wish you’d just admit you prefer Hayden in ROTJ because you were introduced to SW through the PT & SEs; I’d respect your opinion were that the case. Instead you resort to post hoc fanwanking, which only makes you look foolish and silly.

There’s nothing to admit to. I already told you my true reasoning. I always try not to allow nostalgia to affect my opinion of anything.

Impscum sock confirmed.

If Shaw’s ghost wasn’t supposed to be young Anakin, then who was it? It’s not the old Anakin we see when Vader is unmasked, because he has hair, a natural skin tone, and Jedi Robes (though whether that last one matters is debatale).

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I am not in the camp that believes the whole young Anakin force ghost, but the Normal looking Sebastian is ridiculous as well.

Exactly how I feel. I don’t think that his younger self is the most obvious form to take on, but it makes a hell of a lot more sense than appearing as a man who never existed. You also pointed out that Luke has probably seen pictures and videos of Anakin, which is something I forgot to mention. Remembering this makes it perfectly clear why, assuming he had the choice, chose to appear in this form.

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Shaw was a miscast in the first place.

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Why does Cloud City need to feel big and open? It’s a mining colony not a resort.

The Person in Question

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Between 1983 and 2004, the apparition of Shaw has not bothered anyone, everyone understood he obviously was Anakin and NOBODY never said, before 2004: "Hey, it’s not logical."
I was 9 in 1983, and I didn’t have to ask to my father “Hey, who is this ghost next to Obi Wan ?”. He was the ghost of Anakin, and it was obvious because I already saw Shaw’s face 5 minutes before, when Anakin died in Luke’s hands.

I do not understand how replacing Shaw with Christensen in 2004 could make more sense of something that made perfect sense without this change …

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Between 1983 and 2004, the apparition of Shaw has not bothered anyone, everyone understood he obviously was Anakin and NOBODY never said, before 2004: “Hey, it’s not logical.”

As I’ve said before, Shaw as Anakin made sense until Christensen was cast in the role. Up until that point, you could assume that Anakin looked like Shaw right before turning. Now, we know very well that’s not the case.

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Here’s a new theory. Perhaps those spirits were only visible to Luke. No one seems to acknowledge them when they appear not even Leia when she comes over to Luke. That said perhaps they appear in a spiritual form that’s only recognizable to Luke. Just because to some of us there may be less logic to have Anakin appear elderly and unscarred doesn’t mean it’s not logical in Luke’s case. Anakin may appear in a form he had not been in his lifetime but Luke still clearly recognizes it as the redeemed man he saw behind the mask.

Having Hayden appear IMO makes Anakins redemption less meaningful and deceptive. It almost pushes the idea that had he survived we are to think he will just return to the whiny young Jedi he was years ago which I think most of us will agree wouldnt be the case. IMO the redemption is more about a man turning his back on evil for good than simply reverting to who he had been many years before. The spirit Luke sees is the redeemed man who saved his life, not the whiny arrogant Jedi who would ultimately turn his back on good.

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Anakin Starkiller said:

Between 1983 and 2004, the apparition of Shaw has not bothered anyone, everyone understood he obviously was Anakin and NOBODY never said, before 2004: “Hey, it’s not logical.”

As I’ve said before, Shaw as Anakin made sense until Christensen was cast in the role. Up until that point, you could assume that Anakin looked like Shaw right before turning. Now, we know very well that’s not the case.

Only if you acknowledge the PT exists.

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TV’s Frink said:

Anakin Starkiller said:

Between 1983 and 2004, the apparition of Shaw has not bothered anyone, everyone understood he obviously was Anakin and NOBODY never said, before 2004: “Hey, it’s not logical.”

As I’ve said before, Shaw as Anakin made sense until Christensen was cast in the role. Up until that point, you could assume that Anakin looked like Shaw right before turning. Now, we know very well that’s not the case.

Only if you acknowledge the PT exists.

I sometimes forget that the PT exists, but only for a brief moment or two at a time.

The Person in Question

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 (Edited)

I often forget the PT exists. That’s how much my personal canon has displaced the official one in my mind.

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Well, I don’t forget the PT exists and I enjoy watching it (even if it doesn’t achieve the quality of OT)…
And still, I don’t understand why Christensen’s face would be a better logical choice than Shaw’s face.

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crissrudd4554 said:

Having Hayden appear IMO makes Anakins redemption less meaningful and deceptive. It almost pushes the idea that had he survived we are to think he will just return to the whiny young Jedi he was years ago which I think most of us will agree wouldnt be the case. IMO the redemption is more about a man turning his back on evil for good than simply reverting to who he had been many years before. The spirit Luke sees is the redeemed man who saved his life, not the whiny arrogant Jedi who would ultimately turn his back on good.

Thank you for saying this, so I don’t have to.

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