Info: Missing Frames From Release Prints, But Not Caused by Damage

Folks here in this forum have been blessed with getting access to video scans of release prints from their favorite films. Almost all the scans feature an audio of the print’s optical sound track. Although the optical track is appreciative for preservation, some of us would like to enjoy the quality of the print through better sound quality, like from Blu Ray, DVD, and/or LaserDisc versions, so, we attempt to mux one or more of these audio tracks to the video scan. After doing that, we find that the audio tracks won’t play in sync with the scan because the source—the release print—has missing frames. So, we either edit the audio to match the length of the scan or we extended the video to match the audio tracks—via black frames, duplicating one or more frames, etc.

We all know, by now, that one cause of why frames are missing from a release print is because of the damage that print gets through excessive playing through a film projector. After a while, the film breaks apart during projection; a frame, or two, is torn; and the two pieces of film are taped together. Other times, frames at the head or tail ends of a film’s reel are damaged because of an operator’s constant taping together and later removing a long strip of black leader used to thread to an empty reel for a projector.

This brings me to the another cause of missing frames—one that I would like an explanation to. These missing frames only appear in the home video releases and are not on the release prints. In the release prints, these missing frames occur either in the beginning of a shot or at the end of a shot. In the frame where a missing frame would either follow or precede, it has no evidence of damage –dried-on adhesive markings, a torn frame that is poorly pieced together, etc. Even if you purchased a film print where all the frames of each reel are complete, frames that appear in the home video edition would be absent from the print. Because of this, one would not be able to sync this complete print to any audio mix of any home video version unless you either edit the audio to fit the print or add frames on the scan of the print to fit the audio.

Here are some examples.
RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK (1981)
Here is the last frame of a shot from the release print (at 00:05:04 from Litemakr’s release)

Notice the position of Indy’s hammer.

From the Blu Ray, here is that same frame (00:04:11).

…followed by this next frame, not seen in the release print.

…and that is the last frame of this shot.
Now see all these frame together below.

Here is the last frame of another shot from the release print (00:50:59)

Notice the front-end cap of a German soldier that is about to appear.

Here is that same frame, as seen in the Blu Ray (00:50:09).

…followed by this theatrically unreleased frame.

Now, we have a face that goes with that cap.

EMPIRE STRIKES BACK (1980)
Here is the first frame of this shot from the release print (00:41:33).

Notice the position of R2’s red light on his dome in relation to his barrel.

On Harmy’s Despecialized Edition, here is the first frame of this same shot (00:41:33). Now look where his red light is.

This frame and 3 others, seen below, did not show up on the release print.

Our own Mavimao gave a detailed description on the process of creating release prints from the camera negative which you can read here, but here is my version of the process in a nutshell:

• In a film processing lab, technician takes reels of the original camera negatives and cuts them into pieces
• Technician edits the pieces together to match the edited work print
• Technician takes edited camera negative and makes a high quality print of it called an interpositive
• Interpositive can either be used to make release prints, or, for safety, make a negative out of that print called an internegative and use the internegative to make release prints.

I would think that the interpositive would be used for both theatrical runs and for home video releases. If so, why are frames from the edited camera negative left-out from the release prints but appear in the home video versions.

• Did the lab’s equipment, somehow, overlook certain frames from the camera negative when making the interpositive?
• Are the procedures for distributing a film different between making a release print and a home video master that frames get missing in the release print?

Please enlighten me.
Thanks.

Though I don’t know why frames would go missing (Human error, possibly, while cutting/splicing), this was a nice informative post about how film prints are created. Thanks for this. 😃

I actually ran into this issue a few times working on my reconstruction of Godzilla 1985; sometimes a shot in the copy of the (edited) US version I was recreating would go on a frame longer or begin a frame earlier than the same shot in the HD copy of the Japanese version I was using to upgrade it to HD.

(There’s also the fact that the US Blu-ray of the Japanese version uses the Japanese HDTV master as opposed to the master used for the Japanese Blu-ray, meaning that there are some missing frames around reel changes.)

Colson, you’re quite possibly right. I say this because the 3D version of Jurassic Park has a few additional frames of the T-Rex roaring inside the visitor’s centre. You can find this by comparing the number of frames in the 2D Blu-ray/DVD/Laserdisc/VHS to the 3D BD. It’s just 2 frames more at the fag end of the shot, but it’s definitely there. The older versions, including the film print, didn’t have these extra frames due to human error or other reasons. Look below -

http://imgur.com/a/dPX5L

When synching LD PCM audio to Blu-rays, I’ve also noticed that there are almost always one or more frames missing at reel change points, etc. in the old masters in comparison with the BDs.

That is true: the old laserdiscs of the SW films are always missing frames at reel changes. Usually it’s around 5 to 7 frames, but I’ve seen it go as high as 30 in a few extreme cases. It seems to be the oldest home video versions that are the worst offenders in this regard.

When assembling the theatrical stereo mixes for the Despecialized Editions, I always opted to use small pieces of the 1993 laserdisc soundtracks to fill in the holes. The alternatives would be either to let it drop to silence and then come back in, or to try to create a loop out of the existing audio. I found neither of these to be acceptable options, particularly in the larger gaps. Looping the audio risks being highly noticeable, and dropping to silence breaks the sense of immersion, so substituting a small piece of a different soundtrack yielded a much more seamless result, provided care was taken to match the level and equalization as closely as possible.

On rare occasions I also noticed examples of missing or repeated frames in the middle of a reel, but these were always much smaller and harder to pick out than the reel changes. I expect that Colson’s explanation is the correct one; the interpositive and/or internegative may have had small variations in frame count from the negative itself, and these would then make their way to release prints, which would deviate from home video versions that were derived from earlier generation sources.

Hi, some frames are missing in most DVDs and Blu-ray because when syncing the soundtracks, labs removes frames whenever there’s a problem in the sync, hoping no one would notice. Filmmakers have seen their work so many times, they usually don’t notice. They seldom rewatch their films in fact.

alexp120 said:

EMPIRE STRIKES BACK (1980)
Here is the first frame of this shot from the release print (00:41:33).

Notice the position of R2’s red light on his dome in relation to his barrel.

On Harmy’s Despecialized Edition, here is the first frame of this same shot (00:41:33). Now look where his red light is.

This frame and 3 others, seen below, did not show up on the release print.

Our own Mavimao gave a detailed description on the process of creating release prints from the camera negative which you can read here, but here is my version of the process in a nutshell:

• In a film processing lab, technician takes reels of the original camera negatives and cuts them into pieces
• Technician edits the pieces together to match the edited work print
• Technician takes edited camera negative and makes a high quality print of it called an interpositive
• Interpositive can either be used to make release prints, or, for safety, make a negative out of that print called an internegative and use the internegative to make release prints.

I would think that the interpositive would be used for both theatrical runs and for home video releases. If so, why are frames from the edited camera negative left-out from the release prints but appear in the home video versions.

• Did the lab’s equipment, somehow, overlook certain frames from the camera negative when making the interpositive?
• Are the procedures for distributing a film different between making a release print and a home video master that frames get missing in the release print?

Please enlighten me.
Thanks.

That Sequence post Luke Crashing on Dagobah was cut and spliced differently in editing. If you listen you can hear the sound mix repeat the sound of R2-D2 beeoo beep in cockpit (Are you alright?) and then then twice again. There was meant to be a small exchange between Luke and R2 through Luke’s x-wing translator module.

The scene’s were re-arranged from being on the close up first then pulling out to the wide matte painting later (at a guess)

I don’t know the exact answer I am sorry but it was “Changed” and cut differently after the sound mix had been completed. Hence the sound mix is repeated (re-used) and is a sort of error or if you like left over from it being re-edited.

Not sure about the release print but it is more evidence for the re-cut made there.