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Macross: Do You Remember Love?

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So saddened to see Japan pulling a "Greedo" on us.

Macross Movie Blu-ray to Have Changes From 1984 Original

the two ... versions both have shots altered as part of the retakes and restoration under the supervision of director Shoji Kawamori.

Audience members reported that at least two violent shots of the film were altered in the screenings, ...  Namco Bandai Games reiterated online that both versions have changes from the film's original 1984 version.

People are already requesting a fan restoration.

This poor movie is already entangled in decades of legal wrangling that prevents it from being released in the USA and now this.

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yeah but remember Oshii pulled  Lucas with Ghost in the Shell 2.0 and that too was passed off as a "restoration".

The difference being that the older version is on blu ray but looks upscaled and not taken from the pristine master negative.

 

How about the remaster of Evangelion tv for DVD They added new scenes and dropped the old stereo audio in both the japan and English releases in favor of a newly recorded 5.1.

And discontinued the old cuts audio.  So those sets get collectors prices.

 

And also with Robotech although that was a hacked version of Macross they still replaced sound effects and music and a bad new 5.1 mix when the old one is on the out of print laserdiscs and dvd.

There is also the mobile suit gundam trilogy which usa release did not include the original mixes and only the incorrect new 5.1 mix, even with the multiple reissues.  They left off the original japan monaural tracks and even the english dub, bogus release even if the dub stunk.

Plus Rhino home video also released transfromers with a bad 5.1 mix back in the day.  The current studio took the monaural and made a fake stereo mix out of it, still better than the 5.1 even if i would have preferred the mono untouched.

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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Isn't this essentially irrelevant in R1 territories given that Bandai Namco won't release any more material here anyway?

A Goon in a Gaggle of 'em

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I'm not an expert on the subject, but I believe the reason this will never get released in the US is because Harmony Gold (the Robotech people) are falsely claiming ownership of anything related to Macross in the US,  even though they were only entitled to the original TV series.

For some reason, Japan and the US are in the same Blu-ray region.  So I was going to import this, but now I am not.

The censorship has been confirmed now.  A friend of mine in Japan with the censored Blu-ray and the uncensored DVDs is talking about doing a fanedit.

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I am interested in hearing how your friend in Japan is attempting to restore the SDFM:DYRL theatrical version.

Would he be patching certain BD censored scenes with the remastered DYRL DVD or with the DYRL LDs?

The remastered DYRL DVD video transfer showed a lot of video grain in  scenes that have a black background.  I understand that video grain is always a part of film, but the mpeg2 dvd codec made the film grain look worse than what is shown on the DYRL bluray.

Some scenes in the BD are lot less sharp than others and have lots of film grain, dirt and specks.  Would there be a way of fixing that?

Would he consider updating the 5.1 audio for the missing introduction of the DYRL song?

The remastered DYRL stereo audio also has problems with audio pop and click sounds. I suppose one of the three issued DYRL LDs could have the stereo audio extracted and heard for audio quality.  The remastered DYRL mono audio sounds just fine for theatrical DYRL DVD in the remastered DYRL DVD set that I have.

I'll be watching this post.

***************

Just now, I watched parts of the BD DYRL movie and could not hear the difference where the audio might have been altered. I'll have to re-read that Macross World forum thread and take a listen again.

**********

1 Hr 37 minutes audio change.

BD 5.1 audio is missing some background dramatic music just before the DYRL song starts.

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I've sent him the link to this thread and he may or may not reply.  As you may already know, the corporations successfully enacted all kinds of laws there akin to DMCA and SOPA.

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This is also a case where someone else changes a film after the Director is dead.  Here the co-director wanted the changes.

At least its not called a directors cut like the recut of Space battleship Yamato Rebirth.  When Nishizaki was in the grave.   Referring to notes hardly counts,lol.

In that case however looks like the director/creator's wishes were honored.  Not sure if DYRL original director wanted these changes.

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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it sucks what they did

 

 

mentioned above is the fact that there is also more than the issue of video footage that has been changed (censored). also problematic is the fact that some music (BGM) has been removed. you *could* try to mix the audio section in from the DVD (or LD), but I have a feeling it will be fairly jarring quality coming from a DD source and mixing to a BD LPCM (if using the remastered DVDs, you need to unpack the DD track and then resample it first, then mix and effect it so the splices aren't totally obvious). That kind of covers the 2.0 track. Good luck doing a fan upmix to match the 5.1 mix on the BD (I would probably NOT try to even fix the BGM on that). I don't own any of the LDs, so I don't know their quality, but can anyone say if the audio is PCM? If so, this would obviously be a better source than the DVDs (unless there was an issue with the track I am unaware of).

 

 

the video o/c needs the scenes upscaled w/ lancoz or w/e from the DVD (or LD), cropped to match, photoshopped and color (incl bit depth broadened), and I actually think the BD will show more grain, not less (I would hope, I like grain), but either way, the texture needs to match... so the grain may have to be removed/smoothed from upscaled shots, then noise (fake grain) added to replicate the BDs grain texture.

 

 

there is also a new opening text screen, not on previous versions.

 

 

take in to consideration I did not buy this b/c the Lucasfied gaffs, so this is all based on other forum discussions and screen shots, but it seems pretty accurate what has been removed and added. I have thought about it and whether I want to bother, or if i will stick to my remasterd DVD with added fansubs to disc 1 (haven't found fansubs to use for Discs 2 and 3). It seems like more than I want to bother with, tbh, especially given my kids don't like me to have hobbies and time to my self :P

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The blu ray is taken from a new transfer with different colors than the HD restored DVD.

Surprised that the studio did not just dump the existing HD master to disc like some Companies do.

What ever fan restoration is enacted is going to be difficult for the reasons stated by others and the above poster.

The previous restoration was better color wise than the unrestored theatrical cut.  But too much dvnr.  Which has the tendency to make things look like video.  Which was also a problem on the tv series hopefully those blu rays at a higher resolution don't look like the mess of the 35mm negative DVD.

Too Clean too much grain removed.  But nicer colors.

It was cool that the limited DVD set offered both the grainy original and cleaner version.  Not so the BD has none of those and an entirely different assembly of the movie. With music altered missing and nonsensical cuts made to violence. Most likely because it was part of a video game release.

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“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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fwiw. i just had my memory jogged that Disc 2, the Theatrical Cut, from the 3 Disc Special Edition, does indeed have LPCM audio.  Disc 1, the HD remastered version (w/ 2012 mixed in) has only DD.

not sure why they gave the remastered version DD except that the video encode probably didn't leave enough of the 10 Mb bitrate max allowed on a DVD to also have PCM, so the audio needed compressed.  I haven't really tested it, but this seems like a likely reason.  (I have had R2J DVDs that wouldn't mux with just adding subs due to bitrate spikes that were too high, so i had to use lower quality subs or transcode audio just to subtitle the disc --  some of these retail discs are already over spec in the retail version).

So disc 2 can be used for lossless audio for removed BGM (tho lower fidelity and sampling rate, so it needs resampled), but I still have no idea what the hell to do for a 5.1 mix other than skip it.  (a mushfake 5.1 upmix with plogue bidule likely wouldn't cut it to match sonically at all).

 

 

regardless, if someone else undertakes this, I wish them good luck and I hope to find a copy of their work to watch.

 

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What's the best version of the film to purchase?

I keep thinking we should have a thread or a database that lists the 'best' version of specific films in case anyone wants to buy them. Like that problem with the new Predator blu-rays that the originals did not seem to possess (dvnr, etc).

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best version is subjective

BD is HD o/c.  but has edits to video and audio.

the 3xDVD R2J set has the Theatrical Cut and the cut with Flashback 2012 mixed into the film, plus an extras disc.  The cut with Flashback cut in is also HD remastered, just a different master than the BD, and also the retail is o/c SD, also the Theatrical Cut is not remastered, probably the same as earlier DVD releases (?).  it is also probably now OoP.  Theatrical Cut is non-remastered but has LPCM audio.  HD remastered Flashback longer cut is DD audio (don't know bitrate offhand).

It is partly b/c different masters in video which will make upscaling the edited frames from DVD to BD fanedit more difficult.  and restoring audio edits won't be easy especially for anyone wanting to unedit the 5.1 track on the BD

 

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No release of this film has ever been perfect on disc (note also that this film has only ever been release legitimately on DVD and Bluray in Japan; any other disc version you have seen is a bootleg).

Before continuing, a few historical notes on this film.

The movie is a 2 hour version of the original 36 episode tv series. After the series had wrapped up in 1982-1983, it was decided to do a film version for release in 1984.

In 1987, an OVA call Macross Flashback 2012 was produced. It was a mix of old and new footage. The beginning of it was new animation set to about 90 seconds of the song "An Angel's Paints". The last 3 minutes are also new footage and set to the rest of  this song. The middle part of the OVA is a mix of TV series footage (originally animated on 16mm film) and movie footage (originally animated on 35mm film). The whole OVA was mastered on video (ie not film) at 29,97 fps. The original film elements for the new footage is considered lost and only the video master remains.

During the 90's, the film was released on laser disc with some of the original footage of Flashback 2012 inserted at the end of the movie and called Macross Do You Remember Love Perfect Edition.

In 2000, it was released for the first time on DVD. The version was the same as the Perfect Edition. Curiously, it was encoded rather bizarrely. It was encoded at 29,97 fps interlaced, but the disc was also progressively authored. The viewing result on an HDTV was a mess if you used a table top DVD player. At the time, only a PS2 could play it well.

In 2008, it was released again, this time in a 3 disc edition, as djmasturbeat said. Disc 2 was the original theatrical version without the flashback 2012 footage. This was not remastered and the video is grainy. Disc 3 is bonus content. Finally, disc one was our promised “HD Remastered” version. This version was the same as the perfect edition, except it was encoded at 24 fps progressive. The video was considered quite grainy for a remastered version. Also, there are 2 video glitches. During the climax, as Bodoza’s ship begins to self-destruct, for a split second, you see footage from earlier in the film. A similar glitch also occurs later in the film, except the interval is shorter (I’ve never noticed this second glitch myself). The glitches are part of the master used for the dvd.

Finally, the bluray, as is already known, has a much better picture, but is edited/censored in a couple of scenes. Also, some footage is considered slightly more blurry than others. Often one cut will be sharp, the next blurry, the next again sharp, all during the same scene sequence. This seems to be part of the original 35mm film and how they filmed it. There is no workaround for this. Also, the flashback 2012 footage used on disc 1, also looks softer since it comes from video. Disc 2 is the "theatrical version", but it also contains the edited/censored scenes. Disc 3 is bonus content, including Flashback 2012 upscaled to 1080p.

Like I said, this film has had an interesting release in Japan.

 

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Wow, what a mess!

Sounds to me like the Perfect Edition DVD is the closest. I've seen the bootleg version all over the place, but I'm guessing the real region 2 version lacks English subtitles.

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Yeah, there is no legit version with English subs.

This is why my friend in Japan may not do this project (and if he does, he probably won't distribute it.):

Japan Bans Illegal Downloads & Ripping

(This website may contain NSWF material.)

 

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i have a few bootleg versions with a variety of terrible subs.

best bet is to buy the Perfect Edition and custom sub it with fansubs' scripts, since the translations are much better than the boots.  

 

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Thank God I did not order the Blu-Ray. What a terrible terrible debacle. If I could get my hands on a rip I would personally attempt a reconstruction. The only way I see it working is to go by the sound I have my DVD version and replace SD video with HD video where possible.  

 

The catch will be 24fps vs 30fps. Nasty. Problematic. 

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30 can usually be rolled back to 24.

"Right now the coffees are doing their final work." (Airi, Masked Rider Den-o episode 1)

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I have a raw capture of the CAV laserdisc as a QT, should it be of value to anyone. I didn't like the encoding quality of the DVD I have (the first release, apparently), so I was going to make a preservation, possibly using the first DVD's audio, but the project never even made it to a burner, much less a back one!

It's interlaced of course, with bad split fields for the pulldown, but I'm sure pulldown removal could handle that. I never checked to see how consistent the cadence is.

I wouldn't be surprised if it's an obsolete source, given the other DVD releases, but just throwing it out there.

IIRC, I spent $200 for that thing back in 1993, at a shop on Noriega St. in San Fransico. Oh, the expensive laserdisc days!

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Well again, if someone could provide me with the Blu Ray transfer (actual size, no re-encoding) I will tackle this one myself and do it right. 

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skyjedi2005 said:

How about the remaster of Evangelion tv for DVD They added new scenes and dropped the old stereo audio in both the japan and English releases in favor of a newly recorded 5.1.

And discontinued the old cuts audio.  So those sets get collectors prices.

I thought the R2 actually has both. The Japanese are usually good about such things like on the Gunbuster BD (rerecored 5.1 with 2.0 original). It's usually when it hits stateside that subbers drop the stereo for some lame reason. I know both the TV and DC versions are released as well.

And also with Robotech although that was a hacked version of Macross they still replaced sound effects and music and a bad new 5.1 mix when the old one is on the out of print laserdiscs and dvd.

Only on the "remastered DVDs" which are horribly flawed in concept anyway. Little trick, turn off all channels except the center, and you have the original audio with a few of the left over new effects. The old DVDs are also a dime a dozen. Most second hand stores I've been to are overrun with them. ^_^

There is also the mobile suit gundam trilogy which usa release did not include the original mixes and only the incorrect new 5.1 mix, even with the multiple reissues.  They left off the original japan monaural tracks and even the english dub, bogus release even if the dub stunk.

 

The VHS release was the original audio, which is how I own it. I think a later DVD release did in fact have both mixes.

As for DYRL, I believe there is a fansubber trying to uncensor the BD. It's ridiculous to edit a film 30 years after it's release and after multiple uncensored releases on different formats.

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Made for IE Forum's Episode III theme month - May 2005.

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there were 2 different Gundam 0079 Movies eng dubs, 1 was from VHS and 1 from (correct me if I am wrong) I believe the US DVDs (which included the 5.1 Jpn audio).

anyhow, anyone looking for the DYRL untouched, who has HDD space should look around the nets. ADC is a good place to start.

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djmasturbeat said:

there were 2 different Gundam 0079 Movies eng dubs, 1 was from VHS and 1 from (correct me if I am wrong) I believe the US DVDs (which included the 5.1 Jpn audio).

There's only one dub of the compilation movies and those were on VHS. The DVD release does not include English audio. This was probably left off the release over the consistantly bad mispronunciation of "Gundam".

The release of the TV series itself, however, does include English audio but with a completely different voice cast. "Gundam" is pronounced correctly in this dub.

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With those 0079 movies there were two different Japanese tracks, though.  The vintage '70s track (it was either mono or stereo, can't remember) and then they totally rerecorded it decades later for DVD in 5.1.  Some actors had passed away by this point and had to be recast.  IIRC, the US DVD only has the rerecorded track.  There are fan-made versions out there that have all three tracks (70s, 5.1, and English)

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I have this on laserdisc boxset, I must dig it out and watch it again.

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