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Space Shuttle

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You will forgive me, but I need to rant a tiny bit. Hope you understand.

As some/all of you may have heard, all the shuttles have been grounded (well, except Discovery) because the foam trouble they spent 2 years and $1.4 billion to fix, didn't get fixed. The numerous cameras around the shuttle spotted several pieces of insulating foam falling off the external fuel tank on lift off.

I learned this week that the reason that foam is used, is that in 1997, Freeon (sp?) gas was determined a ozone hazard or something and practically banned. Previous to then, Freeon was used to keep the tank cool.
(So, if you like to jump to conclusions, you could technically blame the Columbia disaster on Environmentalists, the EPA, Bill Clinton or any combination of the three).
Other things affected when Freeon was banned include refridgerators and car air conditioners. How are these things cooled now? Freeon substitutes that have less impact on the ozone layer.

Well, if we have a Freeon substitute, why the heck are we NOT using it on the shuttle now???

Thank you for permitting this rant. Perhaps you'd like to join in it, or offer perspective on anything related?
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Wow, star... that's pretty crappy.

I second Dayv's question; how bad is the damage? Is it possible we'll need the Russians to bring our people home? I hope not. America NEEDS some friggin' credibility right now.

Oh, Reagan! WHY DID YOU HAVE TO BE BORN A MORTAL!?!?!

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Uh ... freon isn't banned ... my dad is a heating & air conditioning guy and he uses it for AC's and such ...
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PSYCHO_DAYV,
To the best of NASA's knowledge (that they are releasing to the public anyway), the shuttle suffered no significant damage from falling foam. A few of the ceramic tiles on the bottom have small chips out of them, but that is perfectly normal on a shuttle mission.

Chaltab,
1. see above.
2. IF there is damage that could cause trouble on reentry, I think they would be willing to send up a second shuttle as a rescue vehicle, while the Discovery would be remote-piloted from the ground.

ChainsawAsh,
I'm simply going on what I heard. Perhaps there is a freon ban on NASA, given how much they would have to use for the shuttle. Maybe there never was a ban, but NASA was forced into the change by the Clinton administration, who was getting ideas from the environmentalists.
My point is, they made the change and I don't see a reason why they couldn't change back. They obviously used freon for 16 years (1981 to 1997) without serious repercussions, and since the shuttle is getting phased out, why not bring it back to remove the threat from foam?

Personally, I wish they hadn't scrapped the X-34 project (it was like a mini-shuttle). That design was far newer and was designed for this kind of thing (rescue/ trips to the space station).
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Yeah Freon isn't banned at all. It is just not available like it used to be. You can't go into a store and buy Freon like you could in the old days. Now you have to take your car in to the shop and have them pump the Freon into your cars A/C. (Special note you used to be able to huff Freon and get really high)

Anyway the space shuttle did quite using Freon because of budget cuts and not because of environmental reasons. The problem with Freon was that it would be handled poorly and that would lead to ozone depletion. It didn't have anything to do with the gas itself. If you go to fill up your car with Freon and spill half of it then you kill the ozone. If you do it right you don't have a problem. To help solve this they stopped the sale of it the public.

You actually might be able to still get it but it comes in special containers now so you can't spill it into the air. I'm not positive about that though. But I do know that mechanics and people who work on heating and air conditioning can still get it.

“You know, when you think about it, the Ewoks probably just crap over the sides of their tree-huts.”

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Very informative Mackey, thanks.

If it was budgetary, I then have to wonder if $1.4 billion would have been enough to run things until the shuttle phase out.
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America lost it's credibility when Bush was elected as president.
Freon is banned in most parts of the world but the worlds biggest pollutor: America, probably doesn't give a shit! Ever heard about Kyoto?
What does your president do? Starting an illigal war so you can burn more and more fossil fueles. All the billions of dollars pumped into america's war machine would be better spend in new clean technology. Does America care about the rest of the world or is she just busy "protecting the homeland"? I don't want to blame every american or something, I know you're deeply devided yourselfs (I'd say about 50:50). But you don't get the news from the world unbiassed on your tv screens.
Fez: I am so excited about Star Whores.
Hyde: Fezzy, man, it's Star Wars.
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Bush has bullshitted everyone that is a fact.
"A Jedi can feel the force flow through him".
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Oh and for many years there's flying pieces of isolation material from the booster with every launch but the risk of damaging the shuttle is very small and it was never a problem untill the columbia got damaged and crashed.
Fez: I am so excited about Star Whores.
Hyde: Fezzy, man, it's Star Wars.
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Originally posted by: Arnie.d
America lost it's credibility when Bush was elected as president.
Freon is banned in most parts of the world but the worlds biggest pollutor: America, probably doesn't give a shit! Ever heard about Kyoto?
What does your president do? Starting an illigal war so you can burn more and more fossil fueles. All the billions of dollars pumped into america's war machine would be better spend in new clean technology. Does America care about the rest of the world or is she just busy "protecting the homeland"? I don't want to blame every american or something, I know you're deeply devided yourselfs (I'd say about 50:50). But you don't get the news from the world unbiassed on your tv screens.
Thank you, Mr. Moore for injecting the thread with politics.

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Oh yes fossil fuels, very dependable. Until they've RUN OUT!!!!!!!!!
Fez: I am so excited about Star Whores.
Hyde: Fezzy, man, it's Star Wars.
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Originally posted by: Arnie.d
Oh yes fossil fuels, very dependable. Until they've RUN OUT!!!!!!!!!
Not necessarily:


Just remember,


Now, before you get angry or anything, I'M MAKING FUN OF THE SUBJECT!
I care about the environment, but I'm not going to make grand sacrifices about it.
Do I recycle? Yes.
Do I conserve gas the best I can? Yes. I walk to work 5 days a week and my CR-V averages about 25+mpg.
Do I deface Hummers? No.
Do I like renewable energy sources? Absolutely. Do you own a crank-powered flashlight?

Got a couple little stories for you:
Once upon a time, there was a fat senator from Massachusetts. He listened to the tree-huggers when they demanded clean, renewable sources of power. So he wanted them too.
Then, he found out that a company wanted to place several wind turbines in the ocean off the coast of HIS mansion. They would spoil his view. He didn't want them now.

Once there was a President from Texas. Everyone thought he went to war to get more oil so that gas prices would go down. That's why oil is up over $60 a barrel (from a pre-war level in the $40s) and gas costs as much as $5 a gallon in some parts of the United States.
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Lets just build more fission power plants.

Problem solved.

Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabris, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam.

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Oh, but the environmentalists don't want that.
Ever see 'The China Syndrome' with Jane Fonda and Jack Lemmon?
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SO uh... Space Shuttle! The topic is called space shuttle, and uh, let me say, I hope these astronauts get back in one piece, well I'm sure they will, everyone's just overeacting about their current situation. And who knows what space travles might bring in the future... Space turism might finally be a concivable reallity?
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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We've got SpaceshipOne and Richard Branson's Virgin Galactic. Its not going to be very long before space tourism is a reality.
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Originally posted by: PSYCHO_DAYV
I REALLY DON'T SEE IT HAPPENING. YOU HAVE TO BE IN TOP PHYSICAL SHAPE JUST TO MAKE THE TRIP OUT OF THE ATMOSPHERE. HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE IN TOP PHYSICAL SHAPE AND ACTUALLY AFFORD TO TAKE A "SPACE" TOUR ???


Bullshit!!
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Originally posted by: PSYCHO_DAYV
I REALLY DON'T SEE IT HAPPENING. YOU HAVE TO BE IN TOP PHYSICAL SHAPE JUST TO MAKE THE TRIP OUT OF THE ATMOSPHERE. HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE IN TOP PHYSICAL SHAPE AND ACTUALLY AFFORD TO TAKE A "SPACE" TOUR ???
I've never met the man, but remember that John Glenn, in his 80s, made a trip on the shuttle.
I'm sure he's in good shape, but how good a shape can you be in at that age?

Price will go down as more ships are created and more flights are made.
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Also, is it really required for one to be in great shape to go into space, or is it just a NASA regulation?

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Originally posted by: starkiller
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Originally posted by: PSYCHO_DAYV
I REALLY DON'T SEE IT HAPPENING. YOU HAVE TO BE IN TOP PHYSICAL SHAPE JUST TO MAKE THE TRIP OUT OF THE ATMOSPHERE. HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE IN TOP PHYSICAL SHAPE AND ACTUALLY AFFORD TO TAKE A "SPACE" TOUR ???
I've never met the man, but remember that John Glenn, in his 80s, made a trip on the shuttle.
I'm sure he's in good shape, but how good a shape can you be in at that age?

Price will go down as more ships are created and more flights are made.


Well, of course, John Glenn was already an astronaut and had already been in space several decades ago, so he's not like a space tourist.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Well, you don't have to be in such a good physical shape to get into one of those aircrafts that are going to be used by space turism companies such as virgin galactics, as they don't go through as much G force as rocket-boosted space shutles, they are launched by airplanes and simply climb up to a very high altitude, I don't think they technically even get out of the atmosphere, they don't even get into an orbit, they have zero gravity because the ship falls down for a while. Of course not everyone is apt and fit to do such a trip, for example I wouldn't recomend it to anyone with heart problems.

Me, I would never get into one of those things. I have a terrible fear of flying, I would never get into something that teorically goes into SPACE.
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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Yeah, I don't think I'll be going into space either. What do you think will replace the space shuttle? When do you think it will happen?